Feedback talk:User/Ruse/Friend of the Lux./Kurz. a PvP title

AB/JQ/FA aren't real PvP. Any arena where you can run a healing hands "tank," minion master, or necro suicide bomber and do reasonably well isn't a real PvP arena.
Also yeah, the fact that many people maxed this title by microing heroes around in PvE kills off any credibility this might have had as a PvP title. -Auron 01:41, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

For some people the only real pvp players are high ranked GvG players. But go figure why, when one dont fall under that category, he suddenly become less vindictive about what is real pvp and what is not. However it's more the tone used to talk about what, in gw, is real and what is not, that amuse me. Real men were wearing an uniform in normandy, 1945. Everything else, and fortunately for us... is just a game. Yseron - 86.209.199.93 02:37, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah yeah, I wondered who'd be the first to start the "it's not real PvP" argument. It's like the "hardcore vs. casual/carebear" argument. It's hilarious any way you slice it when it involves a video game. If I have the urge to play deathmatches I'll log into Age of Conan where there's no auto-attack and where movement actually factors in/counts for something. If I want to use terrain well with no certainty of even numbers, I'll do that on my FFA server there as well. If I want a fun scenario, however, I do AB/FA/JQ in Guild Wars.

I'm curious though, with your bitter diatribes and your foaming at the mouth over gimmick builds, do you consider there's any "real" PvP at all in Guild Wars? After all, those gimmick builds take no skill...;) Whoop, forgot to sign. Ruse (talk) 03:37, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Also, you can earn the titles without doing AB/JQ/FA by vanquishing, which is strictly PvE. Yes, it takes longer, but it is possible. I think it would be just wrong on many levels to make those titles PvP. -- Wyn talk 09:11, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

True, but you could never do any PvP for the Zaishen title too, but it counts as PvP. Ruse (talk) 12:58, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Like this title, it really should not be. If you can get it without entering a PvP arena even once, it should not qualify as a PvP-title. AB, FA and JQ being the gathering grounds for morons people less adept at PvP is less of an issue. Koda Kumi 14:19, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Well at least "moron" is slightly more original than "carebear." LOL @ superiority complex in a video game though. Ruse (talk) 14:31, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

The Zaishen Supporter title is PvP because when it all comes down to it, someone had to do some PvP to get the keys in the first place. The Luxon/Kurzick titles are PvE because you can get the points by completing quests and vanquishing and whatnot. As for the argument of JQ/AB/FA not being real PvP... You are a Player and you are fighting a Player. Player Vs. Player. I'd also like to point out that not so long ago, DwG was used in HA and GvG to great success. If Glaiveway isn't the mother of all brainless gimmicks, I don't know what is. FleshAndFaith 23:28, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually you could technically just do the Zaishen bounties and missions every day, collect coins, and buy keys that way without anyone ever PvPing for it. I'd like to see some consistency -- which would in theory be okay if the Zaishen title track did not count for PvP, I suppose, but I'm not all about taking away something from someone else. It seems a bit silly to piss off people with the Zaishen title by saying "Uh, oops, yeah, that's not a PvP title anymore." Rather allow Kurz/Lux titles to count toward as one, since they all fall in a sort of grey area. Ruse (talk) 04:34, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

I do agree that one could conceivably (in about a million years) earn enough coins doing only the zquests and missions to get rnk 3 Zaishen, and yes, I'm a pve player who fully intends to buy this title for my one PvP statue without ever setting foot in any pvp arena (in 5+ years, it hasn't happened). It differs from the Lux/Kurz faction in that you really can earn enough faction points doing missions, and vanquishes to earn the statue. -- Wyn talk 11:12, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Vanquishing is not longer at all! I mostly earn Kurzick points by vanquishng. I finish Drazach with heroes and henchmen in 35minutes. I get between 17000 and 18000pts, so when I give them to my alliance I get around 35000pts, so 1000pts by minute. If you WIN at JQ you get 3500pts (7000pts when given to the alliance), and it takes longer than 7min. And you don't win each time. So this title is easier for PvE than for PvP. Agaetis Ros

I forgot about the Coins being used for that. Maybe because it is much easier and faster and cheaper to get them with 5k Balth points. Either way, I would think because the Zaishen faction is largely PvP itself... They take care of all the PvP arenas other than Factions Arenas. FleshAndFaith 16:44, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

-headscratch- If you intend to buy a PvP statue w/out ever having done PvP for it...I don't really see how you could then turn around and object to my proposal, lol. That doesn't seem logical to me, but, we've all said our piece and I don't think I really have anything to add to my argument. (I WAS assuming you were also buying keys from others who -- again -- did not PvP for them either, to clarify.). But I can agree to disagree. Thanks for reading/posting guys :) Ruse (talk) 19:11, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I don't think this can be consider a PvP title for the HoM, or a PvP title regardless of the HoM. It's more of a merger PvP/PvE title; though admittedly it swings more of the way towards PvE now-a-days. To me, the Kurz/Luxon seemed more to move people towards PvP, as opposed to the attempted 'end game' PvP that happened and failed in Prophecies (funny that PvE'ers wouldn't respond well to PvP as end game stuff, huh?). Since it's so heavily tied into PvE I'd be opposed to counting this as a PvP title. Likewise, I don't really consider the Zaishen title PvP either, but that's regardless now, but having the Zaishen (something a little bit harder for the average PvEer to get than Kurz/Luxon; though debatable) was a bit of a safer bridging title for the PvP requirement (as Arenanet would probably see how little the ((PvP/PvE)) as opposed to the PvP or PvE, community is). ~~000.00.00.00~~ 19:19, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Totally off-topic, but awesome user page, lol. Ruse (talk) 21:39, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

You've got it backwards. Zaishen should not be a PvP title, and the Luxon/Kurzick titles should remain as they are. Additionally, Gamer should be PvP, but that's another issue entirely. Shayne Hawke 23:34, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't totally disagree, but I did give justification for why I thought Zaishen should stay -- it would create too much hard feelings from those who DID have it if they took it away as a PvP title. That said, I did already drop a proposal for the Gamer title to be switched to PvP here if you'd like to give any feedback on that. ^_^ Ruse (talk) 01:32, 30 October 2010 (UTC)