Talk:Executioner's Strike

I like this skill. Raptaz 13:51, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I do tooUser:1337/leet message05:21, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I did, then i found body blow, which makes this skill totally pointless unless you dont have eotn. Shogun 01:41, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

...totally pointless ey ? Why don't you use both body blow and this ? 92.85.194.203 14:32, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually BB need strenghts, I am pretty sure you don't use a superior strengts rune, both these skills do +40 damage with a superior rune, if you ask me I rather use a superior axe rune so I would deal more damage with axe. I laugh at the 1 point of adrenaline difference. Tiberium 15:12, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

That makes you a bad warrior, running superiors. 91.152.108.140 19:38, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Late to comment but i for one also favor Executioner's Strike. If you ask me it's more beneficial to put points into tactics and use skills like Thrill of Victory, "Fear Me!" and "To The Limit!" than go 12-12 axe-strength and take Body Blow and Enraging Charge. Da Mystic Reaper 10:46, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Note about Body Blow

I think that note would actually be valuable, just add "However, it is linked to Strength." after it. Please consider alternatives instead of stomping an IP right away :P Jeree95 (talk) 14:32, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

If the question is: Are those skills related? then the answer is: Yes! And that's what the page already says. But how often will you have the same attribute rating in strength and axe mastery? The answer is: Never.

You could think up a spread of 11+helm+rune vs 12+rune - but who has ever done that?!?

I'm the first person to defend the rights of an IP editor. I really think the arrogance of some very few editors towards anons in the past was inacceptable. :P Steve1 (talk) 18:15, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

In terms of what's actually run in PvP, the note's intent is accurate (BB's a skill you should strongly consider using over ES) but phrasing could be better. Running 14 str 13 axe (which makes BB stronger) is also a relevant spec so as to not lose the bonus armor from Sentinel's to weakness. In PvE this doesn't matter much though. Toraen - talk 09:12, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

Also in PvE I often run more or less equal ranks in both attributes, or even higher in strength (For my own reasons, not because meta dictates something.) Also this same discussion is going on in an IP's talk page (Would someone please move it here as a matter of fact? This seems like a more relevant place for said convo anyway) and to quite mr. IP "...simply because even if BB isnt significantly better than ES in said situations, it is still better and should therefore be mentioned (just as it is mentioned in Remedy Signet or Lyssa's Balance). Whether or not it is too situational is in the end a matter of opinion though..." The note doesn't have to mean that BB is always better, but simply point out the option. Jeree95 (talk) 12:51, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes, indeed. It is completely irrelevant that it's unlikely for players to have the exact same level in both Strength and Axe Mastery, since the note is relevant for any build with higher or equal Str than AM. Having higher strength than AM can definitely be viable in some situations when using multiple skills linked to the Strength attribute, and especially when using a Strength elite skill. I would suggest that this note also should be added to Silverwing Slash, Galrath Slash, and even Mighty Blow (with equal adrenaline cost) because of BB's secondary effect. The fact that this is a relatively small difference we are talking about, or that it doesn't follow the current PvP meta, isn't very relevant. --185.57.6.12 13:34, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Can we either discuss this or accept that the note is relevant and add it? Because I will add it unless someone comes up with a good reason why not to. I think we have pretty good argumentation as to why it would be relevant. Jeree95 (talk) 10:32, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

imo your quote from Nov. 26 gives some good reasons why NOT to add the note (look at the 2 skills mentioned). But if the note has to be readded at least rephrase it please. 109.84.3.155 12:05, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Rephrasing was my intention all along. Care to elaborate how that quote would argue against adding the note? Jeree95 (talk) 14:29, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

"simply because even if BB isnt significantly better than ES in said situations, it is still better and should therefore be mentioned"

1a) It's already mentioned as a related skill.

1b) The relationship between BB and ES depends on your attributes. If you're Toraen, BB is vastly superior. If you doing it like some recent GvG players (13S 14A), BB is still better. But if you have only 9 points in strength (think back at conjure shock axe builds in GvG before the damage mechanics change), I'd rate ES higher. And god forbid you're running a */W (remember bunny thumpers? Remember P/W axe or sword GvG builds? There's a R/W earth shacker tank build on PvX. For other secondaries: */A dagger spammers, */D scythe wielders).

"it is still better" hell no.

2) Lyssa's Balance's note points to a skill which is strictly better. Thanks for providing this point!

3a) Remedy Signet's note points to a skill which is strictly better (if profession is no issue). Thanks for providing another point against your own suggestion!

3b) Remedy Signet has 2 related skills: One which is better (see 3a) and one which can be better or worse (like BB and ES). In the right situation SoM can clearly outperform RS. And in the wrong situation it sucks. Therefore it is related, but not note-worthy. Another point in favour of not adding the note.

Under the right circumstances, Deny Hexes can outperform Expel Hexes (an elite). In others: not. Check out that skill page. 93.205.3.227 15:32, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Your comparison between Deny Hexes and Expel Hexes makes no sense, because Deny Hexes is completely different from Expel Hexes. This comparison would have been relevant if I had argued that Patient Spirit should have a note saying that it's superior to Orison of Healing because PS heals more. Body Blow is not different from Executioner's Strike; it is superior across all attribute ranks. The only thing that separates the skills are the attributes, and as I have said, there are situations where it is useful to have an equal or higher Strength level than Axe Mastery, so there should be a note about this on this page as well as on Silverwing Slash, Galrath Slash, and even Mighty Blow. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 185.57.6.12 (talk) at 17:17, 5 December 2015‎ (UTC).

If you think EH and DH are completely different, so be it.

If you mean by "superior across all attribute ranks" that BB is superior to ES when both are at the same attribute level, regardless of that level (so rank(BB)=rank(ES)=n) then we had agreed on that point days ago.

If you mean by "superior across all attribute ranks" that BB at strength 0 is better than ES at axe 16, then we'll continue to disagree until the end of eternity.

I'm fine with people running a higher strength score than AM. Then BB is superior in every way. Even when your strength attribute is slightly less than AM, BB is still at least as good as ES (and people run BB).

But adding notes like "consider this other skill which might be better, or worse, or similar depending on the situation" is pointless. 93.205.43.52 19:05, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Honestly, what's truly pointless is arguing about a thing like this. I sincerely believe I have been clear enough and provided sufficient reason to why this small note would be relevant and useful. I can't understand why this is such a big issue, especially since the majority of the current notes on the skill pages in this wiki should be seen as superfluous using your logic. I don't care any more though. You win.--185.57.6.12 20:47, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

"Depending on your attribute ranks, also consider BB" Something like that? Still room for improvement ... 109.42.3.102 22:36, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Mr. 93.205 obviously did not get the point. The point was that there will often be situations where BB is abolutely better than ES, and that is if you're running a strength rank as high or higher than AM. Which does happen, and isn't even that rare. Your GvG meta or anything else like that is completely irrelevant to me (i.e. so is your point # 1b). BB doesn't even always have to be "strictly" better than ES, it is sometimes bound to be, and for that alone it deserves a note to give anyone considering using ES an option to think of. As for your point # 3a, that point actually works towards my suggestion as opposed to against it: "... points to a skill which is strictly better (if profession is no issue)" The same way we could say "... points to a skill which is strictly better (if attribute spread is no issue)". You're just grabbing random notes and saying they're against putting up this note even when they're not relevant in any way. So what I'm proposing is slap a note on this page saying: "Body Blow deals the same amount of bonus damage at the same attribute ranks, but costs less adrenaline and can inflict Deep Wound. However, it is linked to Strength." (Which I was saying all along, if you care to read my very first comment on this page.) And no, nobody was saying that "BB on strength 0 and Axe 16 is better than ES." Jeree95 (talk) 11:22, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Actually, I'll put this as clear as I can: A person has 12 strength and 12 AM. They look up a good damage skill from AM since it wouldn't occur to them that there was a better one in str. They decide to go with ES. Then they look at the note that points to BB and go "oh wow I would've never thought of that, thanks wiki!". Having equal or higher str rank than AM isn't *that* situational that it would work against making this note. Jeree95 (talk) 11:27, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

I merged those two proposals.

Just out of curiosity: Why do you insist for the note that "deals the same amount of bonus damage at the same attribute ranks" has to be included?

Jooc2: Is 185.57... your IP? Steve1 (talk) 18:53, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

No, I have no account on this wiki, and I think the note that was added now was just ridiculous. All I did initially was to add a note simply pointing out the fact that body blow "deals the same amount of bonus damage at the same attribute ranks" despite costing the same amount of adrenaline and also being able to inflict Deep Wound because I think that is very relevant and should be added. Noone has come up with a serious reason why this cannot be added, so all text written under this headline is completely ridiculous because this isn't a thing worth spending time on. Please remove the current note and forget this matter. Noone is ever going to read it anyway since this game is completely dead.--185.57.6.12 20:41, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

(Not flinging mud at you) While your note was technically correct, its meaning/intention/goal/raison d'être was (obviously) ambiguous. Steve1 (talk) 23:13, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

I just think that the current note is strange because it is encouraging the player to use Body Blow rather than pointing out the simple fact that body blow is better when your Str is higher than AM. If you think the first note was ambiguous, couldn't simply the sentence "However, it is linked to Strength." be added in the end? i.e: "Body Blow deals the same amount of bonus damage despite costing less adrenaline and being able to inflict deep wound. However, it is linked to Strength." We have concluded that the note is not superfluous, it is not wrong, and if you think it is ambiguous i strongly disagree. Also, it should be added to Silverwing Slash, Galrath Slash, and Mighty Blow (While mighty blow costs the same amount of adrenaline, there should be a note pointing out that BB can inflict deep wound in addition to the damage). --193.234.175.32 09:36, 8 December 2015 (UTC)