Talk:Flail

I like this skill. Raptaz 13:47, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

o ty I was wondering. btw, can you not build adrenaline w/ horbows?

Have never tried, but i think the problem with hornbows is the attack speed, thus the "can't be maintained" statement. You can still use it, but not 100% of the time.--Fighterdoken 00:04, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Guess you could maintain it though with Barrage or even with Volley. Don't have a ranger but its worth trying if you 're interested. All weapons produce adrenaline. Eth 14:13, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

This skill does work with dps rangers and paragons, if you'd have a reason to actually use one... Then again, aggressive refrain works better for paragons. Napalm Flame 13:26, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Not very beneficial with high strength

This skill is kinda penalizing having high strength. You can maintain this skill with low (or even 0) strength and in that case the 33% slowing would last shorter, so its more controllable. The only good thing about having high strength and this skill is that on a heavy adrenaline build and this skill, you don't lose so much adrenaline on your other skills. I think it needs a review. Eth 09:11, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Keep in mind that Flail is a stance. You can use other stances like Rush or Sprint to cancel Flail and control when you move slower. --Boogy (Talk/Contributions) 09:59, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Since this is in the primary attribute, it is safe to assume that mostly warriors are going to have strength > 0 (barring signet of illusions). Warriors have a tendency of having multiple adrenaline skills. Therefore, having to renew this stance every 5 seconds can be annoying. Also, like the second person said, this stance can be canceled with another one, like rush, which gains lots of benefit from high strength. StatMan 14:07, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Boogy, ofc you can use another stance to cancel it, but if you had 0 strength you wouldn't need to fill another slot of your skillbar just to make this skill work. StatMan, first of all Signet of Illusion works on spells, Warriors don't have spells at all. Second, stances have 0 casting time and can be activated even if your character is knocked down, so how can it be annoying? There is another stance that has exactly the duration and recharge time you wrote - 5 seconds - and is being used by people. Third, you repeat what i wrote in the first place - that the scaling of this skill is only good for a heavy adrenaline build. Not all warriors run heavy adrenaline builds though. (tip: Warrior's Endurance Flourish Counterattack Bonetti's Defense Victory is Mine! Wary Stance) Eth 13:02, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

My proposed version is: For the next [2..11..15] seconds you attack 33% faster. For the next [15..9..7] seconds you move 33% slower. Eth 13:13, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

OP fails, but we don't care! WHOA HO! LIVIN' ON A PRAYER!

But on a serious note, OP fials if he thinks flail is worse at high strength. Having a cancel for an IAS is a MUST for any warrior, since if you don't cancel rush at 0 str, for 5 seconds you're useless, or with frenzy you're dead within 4. And only bad people use flurry, as it sucks. It's the STANDARD hammer warrior IAS, since frenzy will almost guarantee being lolraepd if you use hammer. 40al is much more squishy than 56al, plus spending energy for less swings is meh. Also, pretty much every skill you pointed out sucks. Napalm Flame 13:18, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

How exactly you re useless for that 5 seconds if you are a Ranger using this with a bow? Eth 13:33, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

...Wow, are you dumb or something? WARRIOR SKILL? Even if you are using this on a ranger, just run out of range. 33% decrease IMS means players without a snare on them, and not using an IMS, can run out of range easily and stay there, meaning every time ranger activates flail, useless for 5 seconds. And now onto where it SHOULD be used, melee. If you don't get knocked/snared and the warrior doesn't cancel within the 14 seconds flail's active for, you're safe for the full skill duration. Therefore, rush/sprint is win. Napalm Flame 13:47, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

You know there is PVE also in the game. Are you stupid or something? Eth 14:03, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

LOLPVE. PvE's shit, no-one cares about that. When talking about skills, look at it in a PvP context. Napalm Flame 21:32, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Hey, let's watch it with the NPA, both of you. --JonTheMon 14:04, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

This doesnt need a buff btw it is one of the most important warrior skills Lilondra *poke* 14:47, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

To OP. You said "Not usefull with High Strength" Counter: only warriors have strength. A warrior that doesn't have a IMS stance/skill (most likely stance), is going to get kited. It won't matter if you are moving at 0% or at -33%, the person you really want to hit will run away. The increase in duration is for when they give up running, or for killing that pesky dervish. I switch between this and rush. When they are running, I am rushing, so that I catch up and land a few hits, or KD them. If they are standing still for a spell or try to fight back, I hit flail to crank up the DPS. For any other primary, level 0 might need balance in your opinion. To me, this skill is well balanced, although there is a derv enchant that does IMS and IAS that is maintainable. Oh well, atleast warriors have more armor.StatMan 06:22, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Edit My mistake on the derv enchant. Heart of Fury was what I was thinking of, and it isn't maintanable, nor does it increase movement. However, it does do a IAS without penalty for 10e.StatMan 06:26, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

That's pretty much how you play a PvP warrior anyway. Napalm Flame 21:32, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Although I don't play any other melee, I'd assume that any time you are trying to melee you'll take an increase movement skill, whether it is an enchant or stance. You can nearly make due with something that is ranged that decreases their movement, but you run the risk of having it removed. There are few skills that will end a stance, so you can bet that your stance will last its full duration. Ocassionally you'll find a wild strike assasin, but they aren't bringing wild strike for the stance removal, just for the fast recharge. StatMan 23:16, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

cya turret

cya!! hehe nice to meet you--89.129.149.220 08:20, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Nice change

Nice change, at least it didnt effect the top end of the skill... just the lower end. - SabreWolf 13:44, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

The point was to make it useless on assassins and rangers. Warriors shouldn't feel a thing. -Auron 13:45, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

But wouldn't even one second of IAS give them an advantage still if it starts RIGHT after a Palm Strike? More to the point, wouldn't it also be an advantage that they were only slowed by this stance for 1 second too? It means not needing a Cancel-Stance now just to have a faster knockdown Dual. A button masher or external Key-Binder could make this work in their favor by exploiting server ticks... --ilr 23:05, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Useless on paragons now too, im am really upset.

Always was and still is the best IAS stance for Warriors (elite or otherwise). Now useless to non-Warriors. Huzzah! Astralphoenix777 02:23, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Icon

Also shares the icon with Rage of the Ntouka, Burst of Aggression, Crippling Slash and Overbearing Smash. Should i note them with the others? Spotina Talk 00:16, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Spurious Note

A quick test pitting Koss against Master of Damage shows that Flail is being used pretty much as often as possible (in fact, a lot more often than necessary). The note currently found on the main page indicates hero AI won't use this skill unless its target is knocked down. MoD wasn't being KD'd in this test, so this note is either invalid/out of date, or too broadly stated. I don't have time right now to check this in the field, but I'd be surprised if it's just an anomaly with MoD. Perhaps someone else has some free time to verify. Kruhljak 10:11, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

I tried Koss against the Master of Damage today (28th August 2011), with no other skills equipped other than Flail (also, using a sword and with Strength at 13, Swordsmanship at 14), but the only times he would use it were if I clicked on it manually or if I caused the Master of Damage to be knocked down. (A shame, since consistent manual forcing of Flail changed a certain test build's DPS from 41 to 54.) I'm quite curious about how you got him to use it without making use of knockdown. 83.104.133.97 01:19, 28 August 2011 (UTC)