Talk:Game updates:December 2008

Discussions about December 2008 updates:

Please use the relevant update's talk page to discuss.

• Monday 22^nd of December discussion
• Friday 19^th of December discussion
• Thursday 18^th of December discussion
• Monday 15^th of December discussion
• Friday 12^th of December discussion
• Thursday 11^th of December discussion

Elemenalist Updates

So, Anet sais Balance? This is balance! Now I feel like capping Ehter Prism and Double Dragon. ;) Thanks Anet.--DAVA 06:07, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Shadow Form

Why do ANet do this? There's simply no point of it, the only thing I do when I play their game is go in Underworld in a speedclear group, they nerf it, nerf it again and now you're constantly casting it. There's not really much point of me playing the damn game anymore. Well done ANet, you just lost a very loyal and once-satisfied customer. 86.147.55.82 12:21, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Bye. - Auron 12:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Can I have your stuff? Erasculio 12:24, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

This happened because of abusers, my friends say because of Amatz Basin (FFF) abusers, i dunno, don't like/do allegiance crap. But i loved this update, now people will think again for the times they hated permas. Also, this is like Ursan nerf, abuse = nerf, don't forget this. --Inflame 16:41, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

It isn't abusing, its using skills Anet have put in front of us and using them in synchronisation with each other cleverly. Admittedly Ursan was using one skill to its advantage but now there is no way to complete Amatz properly (i was just going to start doing it and they nerf it just like lutgardis FFF, shameful.)Mighty Ranger Dude 17:39, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

You sound like that Dutch woman who claimed that building an airport would solve traffic problems because people would come to (insert backwater village here) by jetplane. 145.94.74.23 22:18, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

The PvE shadow form buff was a bad idea from the start and will continue to be a bad idea until it is reworked. It's a lame, idiotic skill functionality. Invincibility for one profession is a slap in the face to every other profession. Perma-shadow form is just a lame way for bad players to solo farm without any chance of failure cheat at the game, except that you don't get banned for using it. It does not promote proper use of skills, it just rewards gimmicks. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.71.237.196 (talk).

Why changing the skills?

Why do you need to change the skills? Why not making new skills? 12 December 2008

It's essentially the same thing, seeing as the skills they changed were seldom used. 145.94.74.23 09:47, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

whoever was in charge of this should be fired. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:24.21.175.129 (talk).

Why Change??

I understand that there were alot of sins runing around with shadow form..so what. You nerfed Ursan because way to many people were using Ursan... so nerf it. What next?... way to many people playing minion masters so nerf all MM skills??? If users find ways to bet simple areas then let them do it. No economics were changed and no special power were gained with shadow form. It did alow me to farm (for the first time) an area to get what bones or claws of the broodmother for all my Zemais and Antons. I still have 18 charaacters and play all of them. Just really what is the purpose on constantly trying to "balance" the skills. My belief is that they dont want sall areas to be easy. USIL951205.196.178.196 16:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I think shadow form never was need to be create its too power full its make u undefeated and every skill thats too power full need to be nerf like Blinding Surge and they wont nerf MM because they get thir balance that as long as the undead live he will get hp -reg and u get a max number of undead that can be alive at the same time --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:87.68.150.164 (talk).

"What next?... way to many people playing minion masters so nerf all MM skills???" may i point out that minion mastery does not alter the game in such a way it makes the user impossible to touch? Shadowform's functionality should negate ALL damage taken and ALL damage delt, there is no need for a skill to remove all concept of skill and balance from the game, and if your going to use the argument, making areas impossible, the only way to do things properly, the only way my sin can survive, LEARN TO PLAY, areas were around before con sets and shadowform, and were successfully completed, if you see the factor of a game impossible due to lack of survivability, dont blame the area for being to hard, blame yourself for having a build that cannot support you (shadowform is NOT survivability, as survivability implies the risk of death), blame your healers for having in appropriate builds, blame your party for over aggroing, guildwars is not about invincability, and keeping shadowform's current functionality would be a very unwise thing for ANet to do.

May i also add, shadowform is possibly one of the only skills in guildwars than can destroy an entire economy? take a look at how many abused Chaos Planes on there sin called "Naruto E C T O", you know what im referring to.. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:86.14.89.14 (talk).

Seriously.

Okay. Let's talk about Shadow Form, just to make sure we're clear.
Guild Wars is supposed to be a game about strategy.
Shadow Form makes you immune to everything except for AoE (which cannot be targeted on you), traps, Signets, Shouts, Untyped Skills, and Touch Skills. The other 93% of the game does not affect you.
Because you are, for the most part, invincible, you do not need to use any sort of strategy.
This goes against what the game is about.
Shadow Form is bad for the game.

The issue is not that a lot of people are using it; if a lot of people were using Mending, it wouldn't be a problem.
The issue is that the skill is a flawed concept (most games require a player to cheat in order to gain invincibility), and because of this, a lot of people use it; one is a symptom of the other.
I repeat, for emphasis: The skill is not broken because a lot of people use it; a lot of people use it because it is broken.
That was the case with Ursan, and is the case with Shadow Form.

"But I'm just using the tools that anet gave me!"
If an angry teenager took his allowance, bought a gun, and shot both his parents, would that be okay? He used the allowance that they gave him, he just used it in a way that they had not intended. Because some of you may argue that it is, in fact, okay, I'll say, to avoid any stupidity:
It is not okay.
It is not wrong because using things in ways for which they were not intended is wrong, but rather because shooting one's parents is wrong.
Taking Shadow Form, which was intended to be used as a means for Assassins to safely spike, and turning it into permanent invulnerability is using things that were given to you in ways for which they were not intended. It is not wrong because it is being used in a way for which it was not intended, but because having invincibility in a strategy game is wrong.
You are shooting your parents.

Arena Net is yet to stop this abuse completely, in favor of making it more difficult to do. Yes, you can still be invincible. It just slows you down a bit, so you're comparable with other farming builds, many of which are also exploits. 55 Monks and Cryway come to mind.
But because you have to put a tiny bit more effort into something that is supposed to be difficult, you whine, cry, bitch, moan, and threaten to quit playing the game. This is comparable to an alcoholic or heroin addict threatening to commit suicide for being put in rehab.
Get off heroin. Live life properly.
Stop abusing Shadow Form. Play the game the way it was meant to be played.

Or don't.
If you decide to leave, good riddance.
I'd rather have a player base of a few people who play the game than one chock full of people who find ways around doing that. 72.243.251.77 22:27, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Just curious if your for real? I find it kinda funny that there are actually MORE people complaining about the people complaining than there are people complaining. Get over your Holier Than Thou complex and try to listen. Now don't get me wrong there are those out there that seem to be cry babies, but there are others that are just pissed off that anet decides to change things that should just be left alone. I for one have a perma (actually just learned to use it and where to farm) and it kinda does tick me off but not crying about it. The thing that really ticks me off is who are these people that the staff is listening to? To me it seems that they only listen to a small portion of the GW community instead of the majority. Anyway all I really wanted to say is quite complaining about the people complaining cause your no better than they are.76.4.185.160 01:48, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

That was fine until the "things that should just be left alone". SF (pick one) should never have existed; taking means to move it toward that state is welcome, except, of course, to the people who abuse it without realizing that it's abuse: these people believe that hurting a balanced skill like SF (again, pick one) is ruining the balance.

As far as who the staff is listening to, I'd say no one. In all honesty. Did you read the developer updates?

I don't claim to be better than anyone, I just believe that I'm right. As everyone believes they are.

So please, get over your Holier Than Thou complex. By which I mean to say, quit complaining about the people complaining because your no better than they are. 72.243.251.77 05:21, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

The problem is, if they listened to the majority, all of the OP skills would stay OP, or get worse even, and there would be no challenge to anything for those of us who actually like to play the game, because seriously, the majority would like it all made as easy as possible to farm all the rare stuff because they think it would make them rich, when all it will do is make everything worth nothing. -- Wyn 05:30, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

ANet made the best possible decision IMO. Understanding that the "majority" has made the GW economy so unbalanced by farming the crap out of everything decreasing its price to the ground yet have the unfarmable things be expensive as hell is what everyone needs to do. It isn't an easy situation, as there are people that genuinely enjoying farming, so how does ANet cater to them and the general good? But I have to say, coming off a several-month hiatus to find people completing UW in >15 minutes was completely absurd to me. I couldn't believe how the GW community could push SF so freaking far to the point where we do 5-8 UW SC clears a night for a chance of an Eternal Blade, only to find that the price will most likely dramatically drop in time due to the huge influx in the market. The community abused SF to the freaking ground, and just like Ursan, enough voices cried out to silence it. At least, however, SF still remains somewhat viable. So is it win-win? I think it's a better situation than what Ursan was, as the PvE landscape transformed overnight after Ursan was destroyed. 128.180.208.40 06:44, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I thought GW was about half the community crying about updates and half the community crying about the other half of the community? Where did this "strategy" thing come from?68.193.113.198

Ranger Elite Changes

i honestly has a ranger do not see how this elite changes are gonna make rangers use them. Strike has One is bugged so if u switch targets and use it the pet will shadow step to target but run back to your old target. It should've kept it's old + damage effect but had a reduced recharge time or a slightly bigger damage increase imo Archer's Sig... i understand the idea behind it but it's still not really an appealing elite imo spike trap and trappers focus update was really need and great HavenFox 23:07, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, that bug you just mentioned, is one you should report to Anet. If you use the contact function at www.guildwars.com, I think they would be far more inclined to listen to you than if you're just venting here. 145.94.74.23 09:45, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

shadow form

back to shadow form. i have to agree with the other ppl that are angry with this recent nerf. shadow form only made it easier for sins to stay alive. invicible? not always. most quests and missions cant be done with a perma because of enchantment strippers. anet wanted ppl to play sins and made it easier for us to play that char. now they decide they don't want as many sins and nerf s/f. the sins lifelines. as shadow form stands there is no point in even having the skill there. it cant be maintained properly even at 16 shadow arts. all that happens is s/f runs out and you are killed with the next hit. cheers for that anet we appreciate that. and if your complaining about all the sins that have been complaining it wont be long till they nerf your favourate skills either. in the end its not our game its anets. we just pay for it and they change the rules and skills as and when they want to. if anet spent more time on gw 2 than nerfing gw1 it would be in the shops by now. im sorry if you dont agree but personally i dont even care. anet are slowly destroying this game and id like to know if all this nerfing will carry on in gw 2 so i know not to buy it. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:81.110.125.75 (talk).

Please sign your comments, and don't delete others' posts. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 01:43, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

The problem in PvE is that it DOES make you invincible. Not everywhere, but in enough areas to make it the strongest farming skill. It's just a matter of avoiding the few counters it has. 145.94.74.23 15:58, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

when posting this about shadow form i seem to have deleted the other post accidently (the above ranger post). i just want to appologise for this. it was not intentional and wont happen again. my greatest appoligies to the person whoes post i deleted, those that wanted to read it and also to wikki who have had to correct it.

Jesus. Shadow Form isn't the only way to farm, and honestly, if you're this upset about the nerf, don't bother playing GW2.

Sign your comments please,and shadow form needed another nerf,and in my opinion..its needs another one,invincibility in any game,accualy ruins the true experience of the game,instead of learning how to farm with techniques and Skill you are able to press 1,2,3,4 and wait for them to die.Maybe after they "Nerf" all these unbalanced skills Guildwars may accualy take skill/talent to "Farm" Elite areas such as FoW/UW/ToPK/DOA ect.Fire and deaths 05:25, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

They can either nerf it more, and then nerf all other farming builds too (because the are invincible in certain circumstances too) or make Shadow Form farming equal to other forms of farming. I think the latter would be more appreciated by most players. 145.94.74.23 13:02, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I think most people are more busy farming than playing the game and doing quests or gaining title ranks, that includes me, I have farmer warrior,monk,derv and the most powerful one is my Assassin, If this is their objective, not to farm, but play games, then they should nerf other farming builds too. And actually they never gives me the nerfs I wanted, I want them to nerf VS farming, VS should be dropped from Dunkun only, that way more people will play the whole dungeon, and they should nerf other running skills, like cof runs, so that people don't pay a 600 monk to complete dungeons, they play it themselves, and they better give us new skills so that we can do DOA, there are no teams for doa anymore. And they better provide rewards for maxing titles. And provide better rewards instead of ridiculous exp pts for completing quests, then more people may concentrate on playing instead of farming.117.18.231.132 13:28, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

And they better...sounds like a or else! demand to me. 145.94.74.23 21:41, 22 December 2008 (UTC)