Talk:Game updates/20081211

What is it?

Probably right? ~~ frvwfr2 (talk · contributions) 20:04, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

No update yet? Fire Marshal 23:49, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Called it!!! ~~ frvwfr2 (talk · contributions) 01:24, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

what is it?!?!

See the new developer updates page for an interesting list. Wandering Traveler 01:32, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Hundred Blades Recharge Time

Hm. I could see this doubling, sure... but tripling (from 8 to 25?) Ouch. That's about as close to a nerf of that skill as I can see. --Trailsong 01:59, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

It changed effect too... ~~ frvwfr2 (talk · contributions) 02:09, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Arg. I actually liked that skill, had a whole holiday farm based around it. But I think the recharge is kind of fair, reading the new description. I don't know. It could work. -Warior Kronos 02:12, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

In the paper the change may have sound good, but in reallity, given that it's only 25 slashing damage, and that you don't get the extra adrenaline, it's quite a nerf (i mean, it does a huge 12 damage to AL100). Heck, it doesn't even trigger "per hit" skills anymore.

And here people wondered if the skill could be worse :(.--Fighterdoken 02:16, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

....O..damn. I read that skill, very wrong. Very...very wrong. I thought that either the damage done were strikes that struck for 25 each (God knows why haha), or that it did a straight up 25 dmg to all surrounding opponents. ---> Not Happy. D:< -Warior Kronos 03:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

However, it is the most hits you can hit a single target with that do physical damage. HB+whirlwind attack in the middle of a mob, and put mark of pain on 1 of them, and they all die instantly ^_^ Also, it is extremely strong pressure in pvp because it acts essentially as a higher damage oldschool conjure, that you can still use a conjure with. ¬ «Ðêjh» (talk) 20:27, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

<3

This update OWNED! So many elites are now partially viable lol Invincible Rogue 02:01, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah some were Good but seriously why buff Spike Trap? --Wild 02:09, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

symbols of inspiration!

<3 <3 <3 --Cursed Angel 02:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree...I really, really liked this change!--*Yasmin Parvaneh* 09:06, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Anyone else finding the buff isn't being applied before the spell is copied? So far I am not getting an augmented copy of the spell. --Redfeather 05:27, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Seeping Wound's damage is affected by armor

The description somewhat says otherwise, but the damage from Seeping Wound seems to be affected by armor. I;m not saying that this is a bug, but is might be misleading. --VoteForGwen 02:13, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Some bad changes

Wastrel's Collapse - 10 second recharge shadow step that also causes a kd? wtf? Edit: update didn't say that recharge was increased to 20.

Ether Prism - any ele using this will have near infinite energy and be immune to spikes. Godly much?

Shared Burden - will likely get abused to hell in hex pressure teams.

Enraged Smash - you move you get kd locked and die. You don't move and you just die. Fun. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 02:40, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Recurring Insecurity - is still worse than conjure phantasm.

Aura of the Lich - is now, i don't know, haven't tested it and may turn out pretty cool but it looks pretty random.

Spike Trap - oh finally traps gets a long-needed buff?

cultist's favor - i could see n/rts abusing this one, we'll see. --Cursed Angel 02:47, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Necromancer Spells only, now, unless you don't mean fueling ridiculous amounts of Rit heals/prots. MA Anathe 02:51, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

oh lol i misread :/ --Cursed Angel 02:53, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Currently in-game is all spells. So I herd you liek N/Rt Mo/N heals. --Link4all 03:15, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

(EC) My list of bad changes:

1. Aura of the Lich: the old skill was useless in PvP, but in PvE it had some fun synergies with a lot of other Necromancer skills. Now it's more powerful, but it does not require as much strategy as the old version, plus it's prone to abuse (given how it creates a minion without the need for a corpse...I mean, WTF?).
2. Hundred Blades: the old skill had a lot of synergy with skills that increased damage, with adrenaline skills, etc. All those synergies have been lost. The current skill may be more powerful (IMO it isn't), but I believe the game is better when supported by skills that by themselves are meh, but shine in combination with common skills.
3. Ether Prism: invincibility = bad. That kind of mechanic is very out of place in GW. I only hope it won't be twisted into a new farming tool.

Nerfing Shadow Form was a good step, but the skill is still useless in common PvE. We're almost needing a new skill type, "Farming skills", for SF and its alikes. I think it should have a different functionality. Erasculio 02:54, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Enraged Smash is just like Coward, except its pretty energy heavy if you are using it on recharge--75.94.77.148 03:00, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

In response to Cursed Angel Wastrel's Collapse has a 20 second recharge now, though it isn't specified in the notes. Ether Prism is good against spikes, but there's not many teams that ONLY spike. First one that is only spike that comes to mind is Ranger Spike, and that can spike more often than once every 15 seconds. Enraged Smash will be very energy costly to use on recharge as you imply... Recurring Insecurity 's nerf was to partially nerf hexway teams in GvG. Aura of the Lich is now ONLY an MM skill and isn't as annoying as it used to be (which is bad for the MM, admittedly). It nerfs one version of Dark Aura spammers though. Spike Trap 's buff doesn't help much...traps are only for farming still (and very occasionally HA...)

Cultist's Fervor isn't necromancer spells only(even in both skill descriptions).It works just fine with random 10e heals on my bar currently.But for how long? BlackBlood 03:16, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

heh i just saw u in ra with cultist's --Cursed Angel 03:26, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

If you're talking to me,no you didn't BlackBlood 09:51, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Palm Strike now cripples? Like we need more KD spikes... Koda Kumi talk 16:08, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Ether Prism

The update doesn't specify - but when in game, ether prism now has a 15 second recharge. Ooom 03:05, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

the story continues

when is arenanet gonna leave Shadow Form alone? serious....Li Ngalfar

when ever the want?--BTR 03:19, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

omg QQ anet is a bunch of bullies nerfing my sf nao itz hard 2 farm f them.

....lol 8D Secksy 05:51, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

If you have a good internet, its still possible to keep it up. Tested. --Jagtiger 09:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

and if your internet is the slightest bit laggy then bye bye SF --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Hiflyen (talk).

I think if they make SF last 25 seconds (With Shadow Arts - 16 + 20% Enchant weapon) it would be perfect. Since 22 sec is really closing it where no one can do anything, even if you try your best to maintain Energy there is just no way you can do more then 5-7 SF recharge + Damage. Izzy try what i said and see if it works but closing it to 22 sec is really kinda hard unless you are A/ME. Thanks --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:68.199.140.231 (talk).

HAY GUYS SHADOWFORM IS STILL BETTER THAN IT WAS BEFORE THEY BUFFED IT ORIGINALLY. ¬ «Ðêjh» (talk) 20:23, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Well if you would be kind enough to explain how they have Buffed the SF it would be really Great. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:68.199.140.231 (talk).

Bye bye faction

Great no more basin runs, I swear anet is really starting to ruin this game. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Cyrus120z (talk).

By ruining ways for you to farm? No. --kaheiyeh 04:39, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

That was the only way I would get my kurzick faction, I hate AB due to leecher and the fact that your team could be good set up but who knows about the other team, and plus AB had went to nothing but rushing, luxon and kurzick, they didnt have to lower it from 25 to 1, as well as nerf the perma. But i can care less about owning a town or anything fact is that was the only way i was going to be able to max out my title.

Why don't you try vanquishing Kurzick areas? It's not that difficult, and you get 15-20k faction per vanquish. That's not an unreasonable way to earn faction imo. Oh.. I forgot... that means you might actually have to PLAY the game! Oh Noes! -- Wyn 09:02, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

The problem is, you would have to vanquish those same areas a lot of times to max those titles. It sure gets boring after you've vanquished the same area for the fifth time. The Amatz farm however was that easy, you could just sit at your PC spamming Charge, and watch a movie at the same time. I don't like either way of farming, but I can understand people getting angry at this change. --Arduinna 11:03, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, both Allegiance titles take an amount of repetition to max, I mean, there is nothing that is going to give you 10 million faction easily. The simple fact they are trying to remove things that can be done brainlessly (or easily with a bot) and trying to promote people to actually play. I have probably vanquished most of both Echovald and the Jade Sea 5 times, just helping friends and guildies. -- Wyn 11:11, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Making titles harder to earn makes them worth more. FFFing has already made the kurzick/luxon titles largely worthless, so removing one of the last ways to simply farm faction is a good thing. Getting 10 million points through AB/JQ/FA actually means something, you actually have to play the game to do it, and, while persistence is still required as much as, or more than, skill, playing well can speed up the process greatly. Rewarding skill over grind is the stated goal of Guild Wars, and they seem to finally be starting to remember that, which there is no problem with at all. If you want a game which rewards zombie button mashing, go play something else, and stop trying to screw up Guild Wars even more than it already is. ¬ «Ðêjh» (talk) 20:21, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Arenanet

How to balance a game:

1. Find a skill that's broken.
2. Fix it.
3. Don't buff its counters.

How to fail:

1. Find skills that are not broken.
2. Break them.
3. Break them more.

When are you going to make an update that fixes something? ~Shard 04:59, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

there's alot of QQ and ^^ on this update, so its balanced in peoples views, i think they did a good job then :D 92.238.76.95 08:29, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

It's balanced in stupid peoples' views. The update fixed nothing and broke a lot. That = a bad update. ~Shard 09:01, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

How to criticize an update: 1. Actually read how the skills were changed.

This update might, MIGHT have fixed 2 skills. Then you look at skills like Reaper's Sweep, which was OP'd already, which got buffed. How is this a good update? The only good thing is Smiting has an elite. Mr.Hobo 20:58, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

A bugfix made Searing Flames more overpowered. That's how bad the update was. They fixed something and it broke the thing they fixed. ~Shard 21:02, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

@Shard: They fixed things, just not the things you think are overpowered. Hint: maybe you don't know everything. 145.94.74.23 00:43, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

PWND by 145.94.74.23. Some things are good and some arent, but overall it is quite interesting... A. von Rin 01:41, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Because this is apparently not common knowledge, the term "broken," in referring to skills, typically means overpowered skills, not useless skills. This update made more skills broken, without fixing any of the issues in the game. For example, fast casting water is imba, so everyone runs it. How to fix this? Nerf the build, nerf fast casting, do something that affects the overpowered build, so people will run other alternatives again, because they are approximately the same strength again. What they do is buff blinding surge, a skill that was ALREADY strong, and only not run because water mesmers were even more imbalanced. Not only did they buff it, the increased its power to a level BEYOND what it initially was, and that initial level was strong enough to be nerfed. This is pretty obviously doing it wrong. Another example: wounding strike is overpowered, and has been since the buff, so everyone runs it on dervishes. Obviously, the way to fix this would be revert the skill. Instead, ANet buffs it's alternate skill, reaper's sweep. This is not balancing, rather, it is what is commonly known as "power creep," adding new, stronger skills, and changing the game around their strength, not balancing them to the standards of previous skills. Now do you understand? ¬ «Ðêjh» (talk) 20:12, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Excellent Update in General

Some skills changed in the latest update may be under/over-powered but overall it's a great update that will shake up the metagame for sure. 24.255.177.110 05:51, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Some are definitely way way too strong, but hopefully after tweaks they will remain new and viable choices. I agree in general, this is a nice update, and if I'm saying it, you know there were Ranger buffs that I really mean it. :P Arshay Duskbrow 06:05, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I love it--DAVA 06:26, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I second that, Good Job ANet MystiLefemEle 08:30, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Pretty good, shadow form update is rather unliked but again that is personal bias talking more then true balance, thought maybe they could make it -20% dmg now. otherwise I love this update, especially seeping wound. 68.231.94.146 14:56, 12 December 2008 (UTC) Did't notice that I had been signed out, this is me Kraken 14:58, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I like this update. Personally, I would be happier if Shadow Form was rendered totally un-maintainable, but I like the changes to many of the skills. Esp Aura of the Lich. Swordfish56 19:26, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Tonics

The tonic added is the Everlasting Abominable Tonic and the Abominable Tonic. If anyone could add some more about that and perhaps change the {{Festive items nav}} and {{Tonics nav}}--Muesli‎ 06:45, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

You know Muesli, you can feel free to make those changes, you don't need to depend on others to do it :D Be Brave! -- Wyn 09:00, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Lol update is lol

lol Misery 11:09, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree it was LOL. Everytime I learn to farm something then change it on me...LOL. Just figured out how to farm with this darn Assasin and they change it. Oh well time to find something new to farm or go back to farming the UW with my Warrior or Ele instead of complaining. Wait maybe I should not look for new a farm cause they will just nerf that too.155.9.11.2 13:37, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

From the dev updates it sounds like they don't want to kill perma shadow farming, but they seem to be doing a heck of a job of it. Personally I think if they just added a clause to the previous version that said "when not under the effects of a speed boost you move 33% slower" would slow it down without making assassins die from trying to run past traps. but that is just my opinion. Kraken 03:02, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

They should rework Shadow Form. --Riddle 03:16, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Yo, ya killed the monks for 4v4

While every class gets some new and powerful Elites, single monks (RA, TA, AB ...) are getting in an even worse position. None of the new monk "elite skills" is suitable for 4v4, because monk bars would lack any kind of appropriate healing. That'll be fun to cope with all that overpowered hexover skills like Recurring Insecurity, Visions of Regret, Weaken Knees, Lingering Curse etc. pp. AT ONCE NOW on me while there is still no useful hex removal in the game. Why don't you just entirely remove monks from 4v4 PvP? They are getting more and more useless with every skill balancing. Playing a monk in small Arenas will be considered griefing soon. Seriously. --82.83.50.92 12:09, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

lol Misery 12:11, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I really don't understand why it's so darn difficult to actually empower an elite that's solely useful in 4v4 like e.g. decreasing energy to 5 for Blessed Light or make Divert Hexes a useful spell now that in 8v8 Peace and Harmony will be a better choice on a secondary player. --82.83.50.92 12:31, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I think it advisable to read the monk section of the update before ranting about monks. Backsword 12:32, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

No. You need to learn to read, not me. There is no usable single monk skill bar with P&H, because it has zero healing. I even tried it the last hour, but it doesn't work. What do you think monks should heal with, Dwayna's Kiss maybe? --82.83.50.92 13:09, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

"Yo, ya killed the monks for 4v4" I don't mind tbh, gg Izzy --J0ttem™ 15:43, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

people keep saying that monks are dead now everytime there was an update, yet there still here, that not going to change, even with power creep that came with each update, we are not going to see a drop in monk usage in 4x4 play--Metal Sazz 20:40, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

And you don't think the fact people do complain every time might be a subtle hint there is something terribly wrong with balancing monks in 4v4? If it was only QQing in general then ppl would complain about monking in PvE and 8v8, too - but they don't, never. What's your explanation for this? --82.83.61.78 11:23, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Nah I don't think so... people just like to complain for no real reason. (124.178.134.184 10:47, 14 December 2008 (UTC))

Monking in 4v4 has sucked for a long time. A single VoR mes, a single unblockable shattering assault assassin, a single hammer warrior... that's all it takes to shut you down, and there could be three on each team. This hex buff should not be taken lightly. - Auron 10:54, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Especially as this update kills Stances and kiting as well. Monks may just stand there and die. This is why I said bringing a monk to 4v4 will be considered griefing as soon as ppl adjust their builds to Mark of Insecurity and Enraged Smash. --82.82.176.65 09:19, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Amatz Basin dead

This update although addes great changes to elite skills (especially ritualist ones - they're USABLE at last), killed Amatz Basin. I mean come on, 25 kurzick pts -> 1pt ?! o_0 There is no sense in going there now. The only reasonable place to gain faction now is Urgoz :/.

I would expect people who like to play there and have fun doing so to be still there. And if that means no players, then Arena Net has to change the reason why it's not fun, instead of giving a huge reward so people go there just grind. Erasculio 15:12, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Also, Vanquishing is a very viable way of gaining faction... you should try it sometime. -- Wyn 08:57, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Cry me a river tree huggers... you complain about FFF nerf... you complain about the removal of Kurz points from Lux side missions... you complain about Running Amber... and now this... just once I would love to see a Luxon buff like the Kurz always get... SabreWolf 17:43, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

What the crap?

That's about all I have to say about this patch. Ugh. 68.45.151.61 21:17, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Hey everyone

shut the fuck up, the skills aren't necessarily going to stay this way --Metroid 21:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Hey Metroid-back at you. Know how Anet knows they did a bad job? By people complaining. If everyone is silent, they go on continuing thinking they done good. -Warior Kronos 21:32, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah but you don't need to start bitching about how EVERY change will completely ruin GW forever, ect. right out of the gate, most of the nerfs that will come will be no shit nerfs like for Blinding Surge and Enraging smash. And most of the other stuff that people are complaining about probably wont ever see any serious use anyway. --Metroid 22:05, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Gogo Metroid! Don't allow anyone to have and express an opinion that is different from your own! That's a good fascist. 217.234.252.96 08:51, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

It isn't about expressing opinions, it is about listening to the same whiners every single update who think they are the Gods of GW. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:24.19.66.189 (talk).

I think you all need to calm down, as this is bordering on NPA violations. -- Wyn 08:55, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

So how about that..

→ moved from User talk:Isaiah Cartwright

It's going to be done and I've already had the pleasure of /resigning to it. So now that Mark of Insecurity > fortress monks and WoD > everything. What do you really, reasonably expect a monk in a 4v4 arena like TA to do when fighting both? Just wondering... 24.98.60.22 15:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

spell Breaker? Boro 19:55, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Wail of Doom sucks. — Skakid 22:34, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Lol. 8/10, I almost thought you were serious for a second. - Auron 11:35, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

It does get tired listening to people who always seem to feel the need to lambaste Arena Net and to try and show that they are somehow superior in knowledge than most. If you were indeed that smart why aren't you writing a program for you own game? Sometimes it seems we have a lot of know-it-alls who are so self absorbed and egocentric they must be lonely. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.19.66.189 (talk • contribs) at 03:05, December 13, 2008 (UTC).

"If you were indeed that smart why aren't you writing a program for you own game?" Haha, good one.

If that works, why not start your own country because you dislike how your country is ran?

Dislike the war in iraq? Good! Now go and single-handedly stop it instead of complaining.

See why doing what you said doesn't work? Its a total impossibility to make a worthwhile game by yourself. A game like guild wars likely has tens of thousands of hours of coding, something no one person can do. Then there's also things to think about like where your going to get money, real life etc.

"Sometimes it seems we have a lot of know-it-alls who are so self absorbed and egocentric they must be lonely."

Or perhaps they just want to make this game better? — Teh Uber Pwnzer 03:04, 14 December 2008 (UTC

No they just like to show how superior they think they are. You are merely justifying their egocentric attitudes. What it comes down to is most are just pissed because the build they use doesn't work as well, not because of the long range impacts. I find it funny that the people complaining so much think they know better than those who are paid and research/study/think about the changes. If you think you know better than apply at arena net. YOU ARE NOT GW GODS! lol. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:24.19.66.189 (talk).

Ah, so you can read minds now? Right.

And since when does being paid to do something automatically make you the best at it? It doesn't. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 03:25, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Whatever strokes your Uber Ego, lol. The issue I have with those whiners is they usually offer no real answers. The standard "this update sucks" or "this update is lame" or something along those lines. There is virtually no intelligent reasoning as to the opinions. Man you guys are sad. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:24.19.66.189 (talk).

Come on guys, if you have issues go and take your irrelevant complaints somewhere else, this isn't a freakin forum. Keep your contributions specific to the page in concern ONLY! Thanks. (124.178.134.184 11:35, 14 December 2008 (UTC))

Contemplating how monks will stand up to the current meta is TOTALLY related to being pissed that a build doesn't work anymore, lamb basting and uber egos. Brb signing peace treaties with Iraqi officials. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:65.40.196.108 (talk).

Where's the Sunjiang Distract?

Just a spelling error. Sorry, these things stick out at me. :P "The Warrior's Construct in Sunjiang Distract now has Galrath Slash instead of Tiger Stance. " Xapheus 00:22, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Balancing a little too unbalancing?

Considering how mark of insecurity is 900% (yes 900, 100+900= 1000 which means the duration is 1/10th of original) faster expiry for enchantments and stances they might as well buff avatar of grenth to have 2 min duration and remove all enchantments and stances on attack. And I'm not sure about other pvp but HB is now getting owned by Empty palm sins. Its unblockable, does lots of damage, cripples and can be instantly followed by a dual attack(thats a kd right there) and did I mention its cheap as hell and recharges in 4 seconds?? Then the mesmer buffs.. or not. After recurring insecurity got nerfed the only buff is shared burden and even that is questionable with its 20 sec recharge. And I believe everything else was covered already.--SiDima 15:39, 18 December 2008 (UTC)