User talk:Raine Valen/Overpowered Skills
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Please add your skills on the main page before you do so here.
When you do so, please leave the note on this page; include why it was put into this category as well as a possible, viable solution.
Please. Sign. Your. Posts.
Though skills have been moved into scaling attributes (Crippling Shot) and have been promoted/demoted to/from elite status (Hundred Blades), please try to avoid these types of suggestions.
Also, as a side note, try to alphabetize the skills on this page for easy reference. And do feel free to add a solution idea to a skill that is already here.
Because of the nature of this page, I do expect that there will be a lot of controversy, but please, keep personal attacks to a minimum. Let's be mature about this, folks. 
Raine - talk 02:00, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
General Discussion[edit]
This page exists now.
- I fixed the page. It said "Underpowered skills."
Added Augury, Rend, and WoWarding. Augury is eminently exploitable and makes finishing spikes too easy, Rend makes spiking much too easy, Warding is Guardian but better in every way. Augury and Rend are broken ideas and would have to be reworked to be made balanced, Warding is a broken mechanic that would have to be reworked to be made balanced. --71.229.253.172 05:47, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
Dervish Skills[edit]
Wounding Strike[edit]
Honestly, I think they should split this skill, where the (pvp) version is the same as it was before the update. -- Halogod35 
00:12, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Reaper's Sweep totally owns it though. 145.94.74.23 14:42, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
Elementalist Skills[edit]
Searing Flames[edit]
- Added due to its blatant overpoweredness in any situation with more than one ele running it.
- Suggested functionality changes:
- There. I'll fix the numbers later.
Raine - talk 02:00, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
- This is a popular point of view in the current metagame, but one I strongly disagree with. It is powerful, yes, and it is spammable, yes. However, it also requires several skill slots to be devoted to energy management if you want to spam it that much, and armor boosts lower its damage by a lot. Now, I am not saying that scythes are balanced, but a good Dervish can match SF's damage with each base attack (every 1.75s) for 0 energy, and Warriors and Paragons aren't that far behind. Add attack skills to that, and they have utility too, where SF has only damage. SF spiking can be very strong, but the character casting it is rather fragile too (just 60 armor) and can be taken out relatively easy. I do agree however that the current metagame can't handle Searing Flames. They need all their defensive slots to combat the much more powerful and much more common physical damage dealers. However, seeing as this is one of the few melee-damage-alternatives left in the game, I'd not be so hasty to nerf it. Instead, I'd increase the power of some armor boosting skills like Ward Against Harm, "Stand Your Ground!" and "Watch Yourself!". If they all gave let's say +20 additional armor against elemental damage (on top of what they do now), then players will have some options to combat SF without totally sacrificing defense vs. melee. That's just my point of view of course. 145.94.74.23 08:33, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, you go ahead and try to counter SF with watch yourself. -
Auron 15:38, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
- Nice trolling Auron. Don't read what I write and then reply to what you think I've written. 145.94.74.23 14:55, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, you go ahead and try to counter SF with watch yourself. -
- This is a popular point of view in the current metagame, but one I strongly disagree with. It is powerful, yes, and it is spammable, yes. However, it also requires several skill slots to be devoted to energy management if you want to spam it that much, and armor boosts lower its damage by a lot. Now, I am not saying that scythes are balanced, but a good Dervish can match SF's damage with each base attack (every 1.75s) for 0 energy, and Warriors and Paragons aren't that far behind. Add attack skills to that, and they have utility too, where SF has only damage. SF spiking can be very strong, but the character casting it is rather fragile too (just 60 armor) and can be taken out relatively easy. I do agree however that the current metagame can't handle Searing Flames. They need all their defensive slots to combat the much more powerful and much more common physical damage dealers. However, seeing as this is one of the few melee-damage-alternatives left in the game, I'd not be so hasty to nerf it. Instead, I'd increase the power of some armor boosting skills like Ward Against Harm, "Stand Your Ground!" and "Watch Yourself!". If they all gave let's say +20 additional armor against elemental damage (on top of what they do now), then players will have some options to combat SF without totally sacrificing defense vs. melee. That's just my point of view of course. 145.94.74.23 08:33, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
- There. I'll fix the numbers later.
- You're almost as bad as Auron is, Lilondra. Read what I write, not what you think I wrote. Also, armor vs. everything that is not armor ignoring works against basic melee attakcs too. I added that seeing as you didn't know that. 145.94.74.23 08:59, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
- The issue with the "buff the counters" mentality is that it makes every non-OP skill addressed by that counter UP, if it's taken. Mark of Insecurity was buffed to counter... something, I'm sure. It now makes just about every single enchantment in the game underpowered (you can't even cast Patient Spirit through it, the duration is reduced to 0 and it's as if it was never cast). The reason why caster spells that offer utility rather than damage have always been more balanced, in the minds of many, is that utility doesn't stack with the same kind of utility, while damage does. If SF's damage were halved and it caused KD on your target when it applied burning (please don't ever quote me as saying this is a good idea; it isn't), it would still be a very good skill, but not able to blow up teams in minutes, even when stacked. Does that make sense? Raine - talk 19:52, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
- What they really ought to do is reset all the original Prophecies skills to their original state, then balance those skills to not be stupid (i.e., Eviscerate would not be 7a and do +42, Fireball would not be 15e and have a 15r, etc.). Then they should balance all the other, post-Prophecies skills around the recently rebalanced skills. This would kill power creep dead. But that will never happen. Also, it's not hard to limit damage without giving the skill some utility function: look at Shatterstone, for example. One Shatterstone is 210 damage, but two is only 315. Same thing for things like Deep Wound, where it's completely useless to have more than one applied at once (except in... very odd circumstances). It's why a single target doesn't take much more damage from five warriors than from two: they only hit one target, so that target gets protted to hell and can pretty much laugh in their faces. SF hits everything, so that doesn't work. What they need to do is make it not stack. Either "if target and nearby foes are on fire, this spell deals 53 damage. Otherwise, those foes take 127 damage and are set on fire for 3 seconds (or whatever); or "target foe and nearby foes have their current burning duration extended by 2 seconds, then take 126 damage minus 10 for each remaining second of burning on them." --Jette 20:27, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
- That second one's actually pretty sexy. Raine - talk 11:28, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
- How about, "Foes already on fire when this Skill is cast are struck after 2 seconds for 10...82...100 fire damage. Foes not already on fire begin Burning for 1...6...7 seconds". The skill would then become a hex spell, so multiple elementalists using it at once would only reapply the hex and prevent the damage from happening at all.
- Or, "Foes already on fire when this Skill is cast are struck for 10...82...100 fire damage, stop burning, and become imune to burning for 3 seconds. Foes not already on fire begin Burning for 1...6...7 seconds. ". It would prevent multiple elementalists from using SF at the same time. Erasculio 13:53, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
- That second one's actually pretty sexy.
- What they really ought to do is reset all the original Prophecies skills to their original state, then balance those skills to not be stupid (i.e., Eviscerate would not be 7a and do +42, Fireball would not be 15e and have a 15r, etc.). Then they should balance all the other, post-Prophecies skills around the recently rebalanced skills. This would kill power creep dead. But that will never happen. Also, it's not hard to limit damage without giving the skill some utility function: look at Shatterstone, for example. One Shatterstone is 210 damage, but two is only 315. Same thing for things like Deep Wound, where it's completely useless to have more than one applied at once (except in... very odd circumstances). It's why a single target doesn't take much more damage from five warriors than from two: they only hit one target, so that target gets protted to hell and can pretty much laugh in their faces. SF hits everything, so that doesn't work. What they need to do is make it not stack. Either "if target and nearby foes are on fire, this spell deals 53 damage. Otherwise, those foes take 127 damage and are set on fire for 3 seconds (or whatever); or "target foe and nearby foes have their current burning duration extended by 2 seconds, then take 126 damage minus 10 for each remaining second of burning on them." --Jette 20:27, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
- The issue with the "buff the counters" mentality is that it makes every non-OP skill addressed by that counter UP, if it's taken. Mark of Insecurity was buffed to counter... something, I'm sure. It now makes just about every single enchantment in the game underpowered (you can't even cast Patient Spirit through it, the duration is reduced to 0 and it's as if it was never cast). The reason why caster spells that offer utility rather than damage have always been more balanced, in the minds of many, is that utility doesn't stack with the same kind of utility, while damage does. If SF's damage were halved and it caused KD on your target when it applied burning (please don't ever quote me as saying this is a good idea; it isn't), it would still be a very good skill, but not able to blow up teams in minutes, even when stacked. Does that make sense?
- How about just turning this into a hex, half the damage and make it deal damage each second for 2 seconds. That would stop the spike, and since most people agree that this is ok on a single Ele, it would pretty much be fixed. 145.94.74.23 21:36, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
- BTW, I like discussing things with you Raine. You actually take the time to explain your points instead of just rediculing me for having a different opinion. You'd make a good balancer, better than most on the wiki. 145.94.74.23 21:40, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
Ranger Skills[edit]
Rampage as One[edit]
Haven't alphabetized the page[edit]
but I did update it,Now if you dont mind ill grab my cookie Lilondra 
*gale* 19:53, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
- Lingering Curse? Why? Seems like a pretty well-balanced skill to me, considering nobody used it before the buff. --Bo staves are badass. Discuss. 00:14, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Its a mass hex You can easely spread it as WTF.It requires no skill whatsoever it might be a more borderline skill but to me it seems like its OP Lilondra
*gale* 08:23, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
- Because it's AoE Deep Wound Hex + Poison Hex. Between that and Mark of Insecurity, you can pretty much make a target a guaranteed kill. Raine - talk 12:57, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
- It's borderline overpowered, considering the long recharge. To balance it, I would suggest increasing the degen to 1...3...4 and increasing energy to 10.
- When will people realise that energy is often the worst way to balance a skill ? 91.177.245.152 08:06, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
- It's borderline overpowered, considering the long recharge. To balance it, I would suggest increasing the degen to 1...3...4 and increasing energy to 10.
- Because it's AoE Deep Wound Hex + Poison Hex. Between that and Mark of Insecurity, you can pretty much make a target a guaranteed kill.
- Its a mass hex You can easely spread it as WTF.It requires no skill whatsoever it might be a more borderline skill but to me it seems like its OP Lilondra
Paragon[edit]
- <font-size="120%">Spear Swipe
Really? I know it's virtually conditionless, but what spear chucker is ever going to be in melee range against a caster? --
Riddle 05:15, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
- The kind with 116 armor who happens to be in a build with 7 other characters who all have 116 armor so positioning doesn't matter in the least. -Auron 05:21, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
- This skill completely overshadows every other daze skill in existence. Every other daze skill either has bad conditionals, prohibitive energy cost, is inconvenient to use with a long recharge, or has a completely retarded conditional
Assasin[edit]
I realise by now anyone who has seen me before will know i inherently hate sins, but funny how when you look at this list half the skills are assasin skills huh? Shogun 00:49, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
- Assassins are and always will be flawed because their entire profession is based on having a particular build (combo) instead of being good and playing well. ~Shard
23:14, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
Well of the Profane[edit]
? InfestedHydralisk 22:11, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
- Its high cost, long cast time, corpse requirement, and positioning limitations make up for its powerful effect. ~Shard 23:04, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
