Feedback talk:User/Talamare/Wastrel's Collapse
before anyone says something like "shadow steps shouldnt exist at all"... dont...... yea they probably shouldnt, but they do... at the very least I try to balance them a bit Talamare 08:00, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
To be very honest, I wouldn't call 20 second recharge particularly fast. I think this skill is fine as it is. Dark Morphon 08:39, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
This sounds terrible IMO & just makes it as useless as every other shadow step. Tie all shadow steps to Crit Strikes in some manner as well as other, non-aftercast, drawbacks & then shadow steps would be fine. i n s i d i o u s 420 18:08, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
- this is suppose to nerf it... wastrel is insanely over powered... (whether its on an assassin or any other class) 68.202.136.112 19:33, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
Nothing is wrong with Wastrel's Collapse. Sorry. =\ 
Bathory talk 18:28, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
- it has no aftercast delay, thats a HUGE problem... do you know what Shadow Walk was given a 1 second disable on attack skills? because it had no aftercast delay, a shadow step without after cast is already horribly imbalanced ... Wastrel Collapse even provides a free un-counter-able knockdown... hell Im barely nerfing it... All im suggesting is a 5 second increase in recharge and an aftercast delay -Talamare- feedback 18:55, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
- That would destroy it. Shadow-steps aren't as destructive as people make them out to be. Most of them give nothing more than the Element of surprise. This one gives a conditional knock-down. The point of conditional effects is to limit when they can be used. If this could be used to interrupt skills, then yes - it'd be terribly broken. It can't. Plus, Assassins using this aren't made immune to regular counters and shutdowns. There's no wonderful bonus except leading in to the Falling attacks.
Bathory talk 00:58, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
- a knockdown is the ultimate snare and being able to skip ahead to an offhand is a huge benefit (read why shadow prison was awesome for so long) -Talamare- feedback 09:48, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
- Who said anything about skipping to an offhand? That has nothing to do with this skill. Maybe you're thinking of Iron Palm? Wastral's collapse is an elite, and the KD is conditional. It doesn't need any additional restraints for an elite KD skill with a fairly long recharge and small condition. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Rypofalem (talk).
- Wastrel can skip a lead attack by going straight to an off attack by using a falling attack, KD is barely conditional, it doesnt require any "pre setup" it just requires you to not be stupid... Its an elite ranged KD that puts you in melee range to spike(ie borderline uncounterable), has zero aftercast and has a short recharge... My suggestion even then is a small nerf, 5 seconds more recharge and an aftercast delay... -Talamare- feedback 00:26, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
- Add the aftercast delay, increase the recharge, and done. Disabling this or that is unnecessary. Shayne Hawke 00:43, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
- the disable is just a "jerry-rig" way of adding aftercast... if it cant be done because of some limitation ie (Shadow Walk) then you use disable for 1 second which works about exactly the same as an aftercast -Talamare- feedback 00:51, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
- Add the aftercast delay, increase the recharge, and done. Disabling this or that is unnecessary. Shayne Hawke 00:43, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
- Wastrel can skip a lead attack by going straight to an off attack by using a falling attack, KD is barely conditional, it doesnt require any "pre setup" it just requires you to not be stupid... Its an elite ranged KD that puts you in melee range to spike(ie borderline uncounterable), has zero aftercast and has a short recharge... My suggestion even then is a small nerf, 5 seconds more recharge and an aftercast delay... -Talamare- feedback 00:26, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
- Who said anything about skipping to an offhand? That has nothing to do with this skill. Maybe you're thinking of Iron Palm? Wastral's collapse is an elite, and the KD is conditional. It doesn't need any additional restraints for an elite KD skill with a fairly long recharge and small condition. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Rypofalem (talk).
- a knockdown is the ultimate snare and being able to skip ahead to an offhand is a huge benefit (read why shadow prison was awesome for so long) -Talamare- feedback 09:48, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
- That would destroy it. Shadow-steps aren't as destructive as people make them out to be. Most of them give nothing more than the Element of surprise. This one gives a conditional knock-down. The point of conditional effects is to limit when they can be used. If this could be used to interrupt skills, then yes - it'd be terribly broken. It can't. Plus, Assassins using this aren't made immune to regular counters and shutdowns. There's no wonderful bonus except leading in to the Falling attacks.
- it has no aftercast delay, thats a HUGE problem... do you know what Shadow Walk was given a 1 second disable on attack skills? because it had no aftercast delay, a shadow step without after cast is already horribly imbalanced ... Wastrel Collapse even provides a free un-counter-able knockdown... hell Im barely nerfing it... All im suggesting is a 5 second increase in recharge and an aftercast delay -Talamare- feedback 18:55, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
- (reset indent) I like this skill, unlike most shadow steps you actually have to think about when to use it before rolling your head across your 1-8 keys. Not entirely fun to play against if the user times on your aftercasts, but it's more skillful than the average Shadow Step. Just add the aftercast that was put on every other one. ~Seef II <◈|۞> 10:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
This change would totally kill this skill nobody would use it and if you make your build around this skill and IF you fail to KD the target you have to wait 20 seconds to atk again + there is blind/blocking/interrupt/KD prevent skills. Raemon 18:37, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Wastrel's is the best elite shadowstep in the game, but if you compare it to the crap we had before the shadowstep nerfs, it is in no way OP lol Frosty 18:44, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
- The entire reason this skill is an elite IS the knockdown and how its used with skills like falling (insert animal here), its elite, its the one skill on your bar that is supposed to be more powerfull. Da Sonic Saturday
14:20, 10 October 2009 (UTC) - Only Falling Spider has an animal in that spot. A Lotus is a flower. :P Other than that I agree with what you said. Bathory talk 19:15, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
