ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Ritualist/Spawning Power & Spirit Mechanics

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A. von Rin's Discussion

I like the idea of spawning power reducing the cost of your binding rituals, myself. -- Armond Warblade 22:48, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

i also like the idea , but that's what Expertise does , so i'd say that Spawing Power reduces cast time on binding rituals , let you gain some health and enegy whenever a spirit dies , something similar to soul reaping 189.70.170.208 00:03, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

That's what i wanted to say... ^^ Make it similar to Soul Reaping, but with health! My suggestions for the Spirits, were to buff them and change them to sacrificing skills with lower energy costs (maybe other Ritu skills could be changed in the same way?). You would have some sort of E-Management using health instead of an extra energy gain. With other lines of the Ritu you could use this as some type of self healing (when creatures die) and it would be more efficient with different types of builds (for example as secondary Blood-Necro?) as it is now! Hope you got now what i intended to say. My english isn't so good, that's why perhaps my point wasn't easy to get. xD A. von Rin 01:07, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Meh. The problem is gaining health when something dies (especially just spirits) isn't very useful because monks exist. -- Armond Warblade 03:51, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't say this is not usefull, but sure not as usefull as Soul Reaping. ;~) OK, to make it better you could give them "3 points of health for each rank in Spawning Power whenever a creature within earshot dies and 1 point of energy for each rank whenever a spirit within earshot dies."

The mechanic then would be comparable with Soul Reaping and Mysticism, but gainig energy only with spirits isn't that OP.... (I will edit this into my suggestion)! A. von Rin 14:22, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

the idea of gaining health when a summoned creature dies is good , and also the soul reaping for spirits , but theses suggestions alone wouldn't fix the problem with SP imo 189.70.114.42 16:53, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Agreed that Spawning Power is weak, and that the spirit system needs work. Reductions in cast times for spirits (based on Spawning Power) would be nice, 5 second cast times are useless in PvP and a pain even in PvE. Communing is nearly dead, there's a reason why nearly every ritualist build is channeling/restoration. And by channeling I mean Ancestor's Rage and Splinter Weapon. A different possibility is to make Spawning power play a role in energy management as a whole; it would require rebalancing the spells most likely, but it could return energy whenever a spell is cast near a spirit. --Epinephrine 17:40, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Spawning doesnt need the added percent to weapon spells, instead i think it would work better if it was directed to holding urns instead. For example, while holding an urn you would gain x% of maximum health and x% of maximum energy for each point into spawning etc... OblivionDanny 20:56, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I do like Epinephrine's suggestion for reducing casting time for spirits. In addition I like to see reduced rechrage to make spells like Rupture Soul more useful. To balance, buff Unnatural Signet to destroy spirits in one hit. I also think that the existing Spawning skills should be buffed as a majority of them are useless or do not go well together. --Shadetz X 08:49, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Man...I love everyones ideas here, and while it seems like I completely ripped you guys off, it just shows we are all on the same page. In terms of Spawning Power at the very least... -Fro 10:26, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I would add benefits to all the peculiarities of the Ritualist class. As people mentioned, benefits to spirit creation and maintenance (reduced energy, duration, health), benefits to weapon spells (duration), benefits to item spells (extra energy for example) and benefits to damage/healing (like divine favor for monks in case of healing, to allow ritualists to truly benefit from their primary as opposed to N/Rt). The amounts of all these benefits should of course be balanced so that the class does not become over powered but in fact unique, as it should be. Krothal 15:15, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

How about changing its effect so that "For each point in Spawning Power your weapon spells last 2% longer, whenever you create a spirit or creature it has an additional 4% health and your created spirits and creatures gain 2% health." With the reduction in the maximum levels a spirit can achieve, this would allow spammers to extend the life of spirits significantly reducing the need to recast the most expensive binding skills. --Don Knowall 17:03, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

-=Spawning Power=- For each rank of Spawning Power you have; possible fixes --falconeye

Creation Spells: #1) Creatures you create will lasts 4% longer, #2) have 4% increased Health, #3) and 4% chance to Block. (Binding Rituals, Animated Undead & Asuran Summons)

Weapon Spells (& Armor spells): #1) Lasts 2% longer. #2) Receive 1 additional weapon use at rank 3 and above, 2 additional use at rank 8, and 3 additional use at rank 13.

Item Spells (& Totems): #1) Gain 5 Health and 1 energy while holding. #2) Spells receive 1% armor penetraion and gain 1% more healing. #2) Spells activate/recharge 1% faster.

possible new concept/mechanic, CHAKRAS as blanket term for WS, AS, IS, etc; Rits are passive by nature, but can go 'active for a price'... example: buff weapon spell on ally as normal (its spiritul essence), but by bargaining with Ancestors/Heroes, they materialize the weapon (its physical manifestation, replacing its stats with some uber-legendary weapon of that Hero) with all the pros/cons that comes with it, and rit pays cost on behalf of the ally (they are VERY good negotiators thanks to Spawning Power). Essentially tighten the synergy and naming moniker overal. example: Defiant Was Xinrae and Xinrae's Weapon, Resilient Was Xiko and Xiko's Weapon, Vengeful Was Khanhie and Khanhie's Weapon (instead of mundane name Weapon of Remedy). --Falconeye 03:47, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Under your suggestion, single-charge weapon spells such as Vengeful Weapon, Weapon of Renewal and Xinrae's Weapon would become two charge weapon spells at rank 3+, three charge weapon spells at rank 8+ and four charge weapon spells with 13+ Spawning Power, however IMO increasing charges by a certain percentage per rank could be balanced. -- Gordon Ecker 02:24, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Again throwing out some innovative ideas--doesnt necessarily mean that all will work (if Order of Undeath is any indication)--but the important thing is to get folks thinking! ^_^ --Falconeye 03:49, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

NoXiFy's Discussion

Comment here. --'ÑöẊĭƑý 22:03, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

How do you get "very good at PvP" without GvGing? -- Armond Warblade 10:44, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

6% per rank seems like overkill, I think 2% to 4% would be reasonable. Making the discount cover item spells would be useful and thematically appropriate. -- Gordon Ecker 09:10, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Deletion / merge proposal

I'm opposed to deletion and merging. Primary attributes affect skills and spirits are summoned with skills, so this is skill-related. -- Gordon Ecker 08:38, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree also. This is skill related. Is explaining how should skills works and not making a suggestion to game overall.--ShadowFog 20:58, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

FunnyUsername's Discussion

Only if they give spirits a huge buff in PvE. -- Gordon Ecker 04:03, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Some adjustments of the health of spirits may be needed, like reverting the 50 base health they lost in a balance update. --FunnyUsername 20:49, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Or an overall increase of the level of the spirits, with a pvp counterpart with less level for the ones that can be imbalanced. --FunnyUsername 12:57, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't think, it is necessary to reduce bindingtime. Better would be to give the spirits a part of the taken hp from the Sp nerf-patch back.Yullive 00:07, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

I think that improving the casting time of bindign rituals is important, not only you are weak during those seconds, but also leave ur team unprotected. I agree with spirits needing improved survavility (especially in pve HM, where foes love to destroy in 1 hit/spell any spirit since the AI select targets by armorlvl/health), a higher level should be nice, cause that also will increase the armor of em. --FunnyUsername 17:17, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I know there are concerns about spirit spamming, but I would really like to see Spawning Power boost Binding Ritual casting speed too. Perhaps it could function as something like "if you currently don't control a spirit, your Binding Ritual spells cast x% faster for every point in Spawning Power." That way it wouldn't lead to super fast spirit army summoning; it would give you a way to get a spirit at the start of a fight, or to replace spirits that were just destroyed. It would be very handy for my ritualists to get that first spirit up fast, for spirit-boosted spells like Spirit Light or Spirit Transfer or Spirit Light Weapon or Spirit Burn or Offering of Spirit, the list goes on. - Elder Angelus 21:40, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Falconeye's Issue

Many charged weapon spells would need reworks to be balanced with the suggested bonus charges. -- Gordon Ecker 23:34, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Too many effects --> too hard to balance. block-ability for ghosts? Too strong I think. Yullive 00:02, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

These are all just -Ideas- thrown around with attempot to get folks thinking... Many of these effects can actually be used on existing spawning skills. As for Spirit Blocking, if Lancy's "Active" Spirit campaign succeds, I would love to see a feature like this put in somewhere. Its only fair, since Anet mandated that all Spirits can suffer from Burning (which fits themes of Turning and Exorcism), and since spirits are Incorpeal creatures by nature, anything short of Holy (Light), Shadow (Dark), or Chaos damage should have reduced affect on them (In Dungeons & Dragons, -ALL- Ethereal & Incorpeal creatures have an inherent 50% chance to Block/Dodge/Miss against attacks). If this a problem, one could mandate that Spirits also suffer from Sundering (Cracked Armor) condition and give it ability to reduce Blocking % by 50% (this condition could use a buff anyhow). --Falconeye 03:50, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

What should an armor spell be? Is evere numbar a suggestion, or should all of these effects set on SP? -- Yullive 14:49, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Remember.

For those of you who want to make spawning power like soul reaping- Your Spawning, not reaping. The effect should be based on the creation and not the destruction. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Phill Gaston (talk).

Darth The X

The ideas are good, but the energy upgrade isn't necessary. The Ritu has a lot of energy-skills. More important is that you forgot to consider the item spells. They would need a boost. Yullive 18:34, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

The weapon spell armour buff wouldn't provide any benefit when casting weapon spells on other party members. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 00:14, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Desocupado

You want to enervate SP? This isn't Death Magic. You can only control one spirit of every kind in a large area but you can control many minions of the same kind at one moment. You do not want to give the Ritu any boni from SP? This isn't a proposal we can support I think. --Yullive 14:30, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Ciotto's Discussion

Issue: While other primary attributes have very powerful effects, for exemple necro and mesmer, or it is need for the profession, as elementalist or paragon, or have a lot of fantastic skill, warrior and derv, spawing power is unless:

The bost to summon creature is applied on:

a) Minions: but they are weaker than necromancer one's for the runes and they lose armor and damage. The ritualist can't control more than 8 minions so a ritu minion master is weak than a necro.

b) Offensive spirits: a medium spirits lvl 8 with 10 in SP have 224 HP that mean in hm is dead in two hits.

c) Defensive spirits: here the healt bost is nice because this mean the double of effect that an union or displacement can be applied. But there is a big problem because this spirits affect also minion soo no-one use them if they die in 2 seconds to protects minion used like uman shield

The bost on weapon is usless too because the 40% of weapon is use and trash and the other will have a bost of only 2 seconds and isn't very much for 10 points in SP. Now lets look the skill. There are 22 skill and 9 of them are for energy menagment and 3 destroy your own spirits. I think that spawning power shoul have skill that bost spirits or summon creature not to destroy them or give energy.

Solutions: a) Give in hard mode to spirits the armor of 100 as the enemy's

b) Give a +1 damage to your summon creature's that you animate

c) Change the skills of spawning power to bost spirits or have any benefit from them and make the energy's skill playable because all ritu prefer put points in channeling and use OoS than use elite as Sonkay, Spirit Channeling, Wielder' Zeal and Reclame Essence.

d) Change the effect's of protective spirits to affect only the team

f) This is optional but maybe you can make spirits chain with sp such as some elementalist skill