ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Warrior/Cleave

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Lytel's Discussion

This sounds like a cool suggestion. Dark Morphon(contribs) 17:32, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't see how this is bar compression. Yeah, you can use it to deep wound _or_ do +damage, but you can't really dps because the deep wound will get removed. And you still need a strong followup to the deep wound, which means that you've pretty much got a fancy dismember on your hands.--Symbol 00:04, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

You are right this skill needs a buff, but I don't know if your suggestion would make it really more interesting (although it sounds muuuch better than the skill is now). What about the same damage it has now and give this one a short bleeding duration (5...10...12 second)? Would be different to other adrenalin axe elites and improve pressure, not spikes... The only problem I see in this version is that Izzy doesn't like bleeding on axe skills. ^^ A. von Rin 01:40, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I'm sure someone can come up with a better suggestion, but I do think it needs a buff even if not the one I suggested. :) Bleeding I would say no, it's not particularly useful, and Izzy doesn't want it on axes. --Lytel 17:31, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

I think its a good suggestion so far. If the deep wound being removed is such a concern, just cover it using Axe Twist or Axe Rake. SavageX 15:30, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

This + Enraging Charge and 1 additional attack = twice cleave ;). Dark Morphon(contribs) 16:09, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Izzy don't even think about doing this. We already know warriors are op with dps, they dont need more reason to ever think about using FGJ. And to the OP, are you out of your mind?! +40 dmg every 2 hits, and with frenzy none the less... Alright, imagine this, 3 frenzy warriors with this + exe strike. Irremovable dw, insain dps (with an adren skill) and a free secondary profession. Go /D on a war and run this updated skill and you're pretty much unstoppable. Not to mention the split ability this would give. 4 adren DW elite = cool, 4 adren dps elite = cool. 4 adren dw + dps elite = omg wtf. We dont need any more reasons to run physical damage. Add some decent caster dps please.--Lou-Saydus 16:16, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

People actually have run cleave with dismember, especially when agonizing chop was .5 activation. It's already a good pressure skill as it is. Pluto 17:36, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Imagine this, 3 Frenzy warriors with Eviscerate + Exe strike. omg!!! and they could go /D as well!

You can also just run FGJ with Cleave and Dismember already, the only thing this alteration would achieve is bar compression, only 1 skill needed instead of 2. And it gives it some minor synergy with multiple warriors in that if both use it on a target you don't need to worry who applied the deep wound. But in terms of damage it's just the same as if one carried Dismember and one carried Cleave. Lytel 18:31, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

This is more of a PvE skill like Dolyak Signet imo. It's fine there, though running Furious Axe can free up the elite. I previously suggested 20...24...25% AP on this skill, non-stacking with Strength. Adding clumsy stuff like bleeding or whatever isn't going to get this used over Eviscerate. ~Seef II <ℹ|۞> 09:20, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

There is no comparison between furious axe, an energy skill, and cleave, an adrenaline skill. Pluto 06:24, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Just up the damage to exec standards. Really doesn't need a DW. Cleave users should be forced to take dismember or they become too fucking powerful. Axe doesn't need further compression. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 12:21, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Seef_II, this is PvE skill. Enemies die very often in PvE, so low adrenaline skills are more useful, just spam it whenever it's up. I don't mind this skill getting a buff for PvP, but not so much that the other PvE elites look less desirable. --24.199.97.20 20:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

TimeToGetIntense's Discussion

I posted this suggestion on the old page, but I don't think Izzy ever saw it. --TimeToGetIntense 15:34, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I think that the suggested damage per condition and cap are too low, you'd be actually nerfing the skill(the current unconditional damage at 15 axe mastery is +30). at 15 axe mastery a unconditional +15 damage and +10 per condition on foe(max +45) would give this skill more use.(Marsc 21:56, 12 March 2008 (UTC))

You missunderstand the suggestion. I didn't say remove the unconditional damage. I said add the conditional damage. With 3 conditions at 15 mastery, you'd deal +60 damage. That's not OP in my opinion because this means you need to connect Dismember, Axe Rake and Axe Twist. This is a 3 hit setup time vs. the two hit setup time for Final Thrust, which can deal +80 damage at 15 Swordsmanship. Also, Final Thrust is a bit more flexible. While the condition might be a little harder to do, most of the time you need to do Sever and Gash to get that condition. Similarly, the get the most damage out of Cleave you'd need to set up with your combo, giving the enemy a few seconds of warning. This way it would be a great pressure skill due to massive damage but a poor spike skill. --TimeToGetIntense 23:16, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Great synergy with a team behind you that can also deal a set of their own conditions. Ranger- Poison + Cripple, Ele- Cracked Armor + Blind, Necromancer- Weakness + Disease.--Underwood 23:25, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Poison spread or barbed spear from a paragon, cracked armor from lighting orb, and deep wound... suddenly the skill starts to look like a way better spike skill than you give it credit for. Pluto 22:21, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Sure, go for it. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 13:33, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Rururrur's Discussion

I did some math to see which adrenaline skill combinations provided the most damage per strike of adrenaline:

     Dismember +  Axe Rake +  Axe Twist +  Cleave = 12 DPA
     Dismember +  Axe Rake +  Cleave = 8 DPA
     Dismember +  Penetrating Chop +  Cleave = 10 DPA
     Dismember +  Cleave +  Agonizing Chop = 8.333 DPA
     Eviscerate +  Executioner's Strike +  Agonizing Chop = 11.375 DPA
     Eviscerate +  Executioner's Strike +  Body Blow = 13.375 DPA
     Eviscerate +  Executioner's Strike = 8.875 DPA
     Cleave = 7.5 DPA
     Eviscerate = 3.875 DPA

Note: I factored the damage at 15 Axe Mastery and 13 Strength. The Armor Penetration for Penetrating Chop/Blow was not considered. The divisor for each skill chain is the cost of the highest adrenaline skill in the chain. --Rururrur 12:01, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

DPS is not the reason this isn't run. Eviscerate gets DW, which means you can spike harder/faster with it. Lord of all tyria 20:01, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you completely. I'm just throwing the numbers up to show that Cleave chains fail at DPS as well compared to Eviscerate chains. If it is made comparable in DPS to Eviscerate, it may begin to see some play in some old school inspired pressure builds, but will never replace Eviscerate. --Rururrur 08:44, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

13:08, 16 March 2008

If you change it to inflict cracked armor (+deep wound if target has cracked armor) you'll have to increase the adren to 6~7. Cleave + Body Blow > Eviscerate + Body Blow/Executioner's Strike --‎ Rayd 12:26, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Alternately, the damage could be reduced or the Cracked Armour duration made quite short. Remember that even with Cleave only being 4 adrenaline, Body Blow is 7 or something, so you would have to charge that up before you could use the combo anyway. Thus, making Cleave a 7 adrenaline skill wouldn't harm the Cleave - Body Blow chain you'd get from adding the Deep Wound, it would just harm other uses of the skill.

Add cracked armor and you'd be insane not to run body blow and forgo dismember all together. It'd be sort of like sever+gash, except cracked armor is good and bleeding is pretty much not. If cracked armor gets added to Cleave, even with an 8 adren cost, it's pretty much going to have to have damage nerfs on at least body blow, if not cleave as well. Otherwise, there is absolutely no reason not to run this instead of eviscerate. (that aside, I'm actually not in favor of making cracked armor accessible to warriors at all). Pluto 00:27, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Except, Cleave and Body Blow together take up two slots to do what Eviscerate does in one. OK, they do more damage but if you take Executioner's Strike with Eviscerate (as most axe warriors do), you get just as much damage. Furthermore, Body Blow is a Strength skill, meaning that you aren't likely to have as many points in it (with 15 Axe and 15 Strength the two combos would have almost exactly the same total +dmg, but as you decrease Strength, the Cleave - Body Blow combo gets weaker). The only reason you would take C and BB over E&E would be that you would also get to inflict Cracked Armour (at the cost of some +dmg), or if you had a lower Axe Mastery score (since Cleave's scaling is better). However, since Cracked Armour would probably increase the damage you do with the next hit, I can see that C&BB would probably become just a more favourable version of E&E (though it would fuel RC), so possibly toning down the damage on one or both of them might be necessary. That said, I don't see anything massively wrong with the suggestion (other than maybe "No, CA on warriors! Blasphemy!"). 82.3.255.222 21:20, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Phil Gastons

1s activation would NOT help this. ~~ frvwfr2 (talk · contributions) 13:44, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

The problem is that it borks your adrenaline

yea i agree with this, but maybe it would be op with that stats, if u add +1 adrenaline then it also charges the skill itself, imo 4 adrenaline is nice so it should remain, but this would reduce it to 3, i like the 1/2 suggestion, but taking these into account, the current bonus dmg would be lot, imo reduce it to +13...22...24 and its a nice skill then

other one that would appeal to me is the +dmg, cracked armor if not affected by it, dw when affected(maybe dw is not the best for this change tho, coz body blow does the same...) but i got a thought, what if it would inflict cracked armor when suffering from dw, and inflict dw when suffering from cracked armor, and sumthing like bleeding as an unconditional effect...oje i would use it then(wuhy)89.134.135.215 23:27, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Simple solution that a mentally handicapped individual could come up with: 4a, 1/2s, current damage, gain 1 strike of adrenaline.