ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Warrior/Primal Rage

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Hikan Trilear's Discussion

Still wouldn't use it. No IAS, 10 energy? Maybe if it were a skill and not a stance it'd be worth the 10e. -- Armond Warblade 21:37, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I think the increased critical and armor penetration more than makes up for no IAS --Hikan Trilear 21:51, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

If you're going for pure pressure, yeah. But spikes require an IAS unless it's entirely cast time attacks, and spikes are what kill things. -- Armond Warblade 21:52, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I was mostly thinking of pressure, that seems to be what this skill is intended for. And you can still bring a second stance --Hikan Trilear 21:56, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I'd run it if it did this:

"Your attack skills are disabled for 8 seconds. For (1...7...11) seconds, your attacks have (whatever the skill does now)." This way, you'd suck for the first 8 seconds, then ZOMG UNLEASHTHEFURY!!! for the next 3-4 seconds with sundering critical Power Attack spammage. I would like this skill a lot more if for at least a short duration, you could use attack skills with it. ~Shard (talk / Nerf List) 00:06, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

That'd be, like, two attacks. If Power Attack had no recharge. -- Armond Warblade 00:11, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

How about 5e/4r "Elite Stance. For 8 seconds, you attack 33% faster and have 20% armor penetration but suffer triple damage." rofl elite Frenzy! --TimeToGetIntense 09:48, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah no, no way I'm taking that over frenzy. Things multiply a *lot* faster than you'd think, and with ineptitude still lying around that's just *begging* for a rageptitude spike. -- Armond Warblade 19:08, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Even if you remove the skill disable and change it from a stance to a skill, this Elite would still be far from overpowered.--Skye Marin 21:05, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Well I don't think we need more GvG caliber Warrior elites at this point, but making this like an elite Frenzy with a higher risk would be pretty fun for RA. But yeah, I think Warriors have the most viable elites in the game. Tons of solid skills, really well designed profession. It doesn't need huge reworks on the few badly designed skills. --TimeToGetIntense 09:10, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

make it so:5/0/12 elite stance. For 1-6 seconds, you attack 50% faster, but take double damage.

And the practical benefits of using that instead of frenzy are...? -- Armond Warblade 18:23, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

More DPS. --TimeToGetIntense 23:27, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Practical I said. That's not maintainable, actually, so it's probably less DPS. -- Armond Warblade 10:45, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Oops, I didn't really read his suggestion. That version is stupid. If it was sustainable it would be overpowered. Again, going with Dismember is not a problem, especially with how powerful 50% IAS is. IAS in GW reduces the time it takes to attack by the IAS value rather than increasing the number of attacks per second by that value. Long story short, 33% IAS = +50% attack rate, 50% IAS = Double attack rate. It should be triple damage and fulltime 50% IAS or 33% + 20% armor penetration imo. Of course this isn't a skill that needs to be made viable. Making it like an elite Frenzy would be fun but ultimately pointless. --TimeToGetIntense 23:43, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Now, see, the point is taht you woundn't maintain it. You'd drop it down on a spike, and it'd allow more attacks to be compressed to make up for an elite DW. Would greatly help sword bars. Nukleaer VII File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 10:05, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

But why would I do that when I can just bring frenzy and have a permanent 33% IAS? It's less DPS than a 50% IAS, yes, but because one is maintainable and one isn't, I'm probably still doing more damage. Keep in mind that warriors already do 50 DPS with Frenzy, so why do we need more? -- Armond Warblade 23:29, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

The only way this will be used is if it doesn't make you useless outside of "hulk smash" auto attacking with a billion (exaggerating) passive damage buff enchantments like Strength of honor or conjures. In short, it needs a rework badly. Plus it is about as fun to play as a minionmaster with no minions. --Life Infusion «T» 01:57, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Armond, there is no way that you maintain frenzy 24/7. You'd cancel it when you get targeted, and you know how much your energy strains when you reapply it. My version is just a more dense version of frenzy, which i spretty good. Nuke7, cant log in 85.107.251.198 16:08, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Dear mr ip,pls play more gvg.If you got decent monks youll be able to frenzy 24/7 and barely need a cancel stance.Lilondra 16:07, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Lilondra's Issue

Why does everyone keep suggesting warriors get cracked armor application? --Life Infusion «T» 14:42, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Body blow,D-strike etc.Warriors got skills that are much stronger combined with cracked armor but do not have a source to apply it.Lilondra 17:57, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

BumpinessLilondra 09:07, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

There is a very good reason warriors don't get to apply cracked armor. Eviscerate used to do the same damage spread as body blow. It was elite, and was still too good. If cracked armor becomes to easy for warriors, then body blow becomes too good. Pluto 03:58, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

It is at the cost of an elite and eviscerate had no reason to be nerfed anyway the only reason while its still used is because the rest sucks even more.Lilondra 17:29, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Primal Rage/Rush/Body Blow/Executioner's/DStrike. More damage than the Evis bar, same number of slots, plus a melee-range Dshot and a cover condition. And no, Eviscerate was overpowered. --164.47.99.222 17:48, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Eviscerate was not overpowered imo and if it was it was only oveverpowered back then.Defense has been buffed in overall.Also we could just make primal rage a warrior form of sundering weapon ? Then it would force them to spend another slot in there ias.Lilondra 05:16, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Maybe this could be like an elite combo of Power Attack and Signet of Strength---make it an attack skill that deals +x damage, and for next 1..y seconds your attacks deal +z damage. Or make it grant attack speed boost as a 'skill' effect if the attack hits. That would be more fun for playing a psycho berserker warrior using the power of 'PRIMAL RAGE'!!! - Elder Angelus 17:37, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Crimmastermind's Issue

I think this is a reasonable idea, but some may argue that its too weak, or it doesn't give IAS etc. As for ability to be coded, I think its possible, because there are skills like Healing Signet which give an effect while activating skills (in that case, -40 armor), so you could have like a positive bonus of armor penetration/crit chance always but you lose that while activating skills (since all your non-attack skills are disabled, you can only use attack skills). Also, there are things like Sloth Hunter's Shot which do extra damage against foes not using skills, so it should be possible to code that in, but I'm no computer whizz :PCrimmastermind 07:49, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

List of good skills you can't use with your version:

1. Shock
2. Rending Touch
3. Rend Enchantments
4. Power Spike/Leak/etc
5. Eviscerate

Also, as you don't have an IAS, your spikes are slower (and thus more easily caught) and less often (as you gain adrenaline slower). All in all, I'd rather frenzy. -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 23:31, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Well the purpose of that skill isn't to spike but rather create pressure. You deal lots more damage with your normal attacks like the skill is right now, but you still have the option of spiking with skills unlike the version now. However, I have to admit that I would still prefer frenzy, but at least it would be a buff that maybe allowed it to see some play in PvE.Crimmastermind 03:03, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Spikes are what kill things though. -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 04:43, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, its better to buff a skill a little so it doesn't make you worse than to leave it as it is imo.Crimmastermind 06:26, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Ulterion's Issue

Uh its awesome as it is now. This skill allows warriors to train targets and cause more pressure than before (next to Warrior's Endurance). "rush" and "frenzy" compacted thats what makes it so much better. Cripslash allowed warriors to continue pressure as they tried to kite. That's what this skill allows you to do. Eviscerate is primarily used on the "shock axe" bar which has unrivaled disruption compared to any other warrior bar. But having pure damage allows you to role scrub teams faster and makes your midline actually do their job. Battle Rage pales in comparison to this skill, now the 33% faster attack rate is like gaining double arenaline.--Underwood 02:23, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

For anyone who dosen't know 33% IAS = 50% more attacking. Done25 21:55, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Lol, its not awesome, its decent/pretty good. The fact that it is two skills compacted doesn't make it good, because of the x2dmg clause you still need a cancel stance, which means that you actually fail to save any skill slots. Its only better than frenzy in that you can strike quickly on kiting foes, but even that kind of sucks, because the reason you need an IAS is to gain adrenaline and to spike quicker, and you don't really need 33%IMS to do that, because if you are forcing them to kite, and then simply using a 33%IMS is good enough, because you still spend more time running than moving so your 33%IAS isn't anywhere near as useful. Thus, Rush+Frenzy is pretty much almost as good as Primal Rage+<insert random cancel stance that is probably an IMS anyway>, but it doesn't waste your elite skill slot so is usually better. This is only really better in highest levels of GvG where you have great enough monks where you can maintain frenzy 100% anyway.Crimmastermind 07:59, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

You are bad. Rush and frenzy are not the same as imbarage. I think you are underestimating (or simply don't know, go play a thumper) the value of having an IAS and a IMS at the same time. Also, you compared PR with Battle Rage. That pretty much shows that you have... no idea about how the game runs. Finally, if it is good in GvG, that's what it is balanced around. This is awesome as it is, and if you are buffing it, you have no idea how the game runs and you should go die in a fire.

Btw, I'm going to wipe the suggestion page unless if you can come up with a better argument for your fallacious logic. -- NUKLEAR IIV 09:29, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

I just read this: "If this stance were to have retained it's critical strike/penetration stats I might've considered this an elite as it fit's the description more fully and is much more viable that way. As it stands now, though, this is nothing more than frenzy and rush compacted. it'd be a waste of an elite as most other elites have synergy and aren't as effective without it's corresponding elite (i.e.: Cripslash, Eviscerate, etc.). --Ulterion 17:15, 13 December 2008 (UTC)" So, the old Primal rage was better? Okay, GG. -- NUKLEAR IIV 10:04, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Nuclear, what did you expect from a person who puts smites with ZB? Or running verata's gaze to take advantage of malign intervention.Pika Fan 10:37, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Deletion proposal

I am opposed to the deletion proposal. This is a feedpack page with a suggestion that actually got implemented. If that isn't good enough to keep, what is? Also, the deletion rationale seems to imply that the deletion tag was added in bad faith. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 00:11, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm also against the deletion proposal, these suggestions are fairly relevant still, even with the recharge change. DarkNecrid 15:17, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Primal's multiple nerf's justify a PvE version of the skill

Currently as of today 06/26/2009 Primal Rage has the description

" 5 0 15 Elite Stance For 1..12 seconds, you attack 33% faster and move 25% faster, but you take double damage.".

A little history for those who are fuzzy, Primal Rage was nerfed 2x's in 2009 since its buff/change to IMS/IAS skill. The first nerf altered the IMS from a 33% speed boost to a 25% speed boost. After several weeks it was determined that the previous nerf did not have the desired effect and thus they additionally nerfed the recharge from 4 sec to 15 sec. IMO it was obvious that the second nerf was all that was needed to fix the skills "overpoweredness" and the original nerf to the speed boost was overkill.

As a result of these 2 nerfs Primal Rage is seen very rarely in competitive play on axe warriors, most choosing to go with the big damage of Eviscerate or the utility of a Whirling Axe bar. The times now that you do see this skill being used effectively in GvG it is being used on a warrior as a IMS to split and respond to splitters with. I would like to propose that this application of this skill be nurtured and encouraged in the current split heavy meta game. I propose this skill's original nerf to the IMS be returned bumping the speed boost back to 33% while retaining the later nerf of a long 15 second recharge. This would make Primal a real split option that if used correctly could out run a good defensive snare character instead of getting owned by them.

Additionally I would like to propose that this skill be split to a PvE and PvP versions. The PvP version I have outlined above and the PvE version should match the original buff of 33% IMS/IAS with a 4 sec recharge. I used to love this skill in PvE because of its ultra mobility. With a good backline that knows how to prot correctly the double damage is not a factor and its a much more fun bar than most of the warriors endurance PvE builds. As a recap, I propose the skill be changed to:

PVP VERSION

" 5 0 15 Elite Stance For 1..12 seconds, you attack 33% faster and move 33% faster, but you take double damage.".

PVE VERSION

" 5 0 4 Elite Stance For 1..12 seconds, you attack 33% faster and move 33% faster, but you take double damage.".

Thanks for considering my thoughts Amlucent 18:01, 26 June 2009 (UTC)