Feedback talk:User/Daggerbird/balancing casters vs. non-casters

Partly, I think you are right. However, a 1v1 situation is a bad example for this suggestion because 1v1 combat in GW has never been balanced. From release to early NF, the game was balanced for team vs team combat, and it did a pretty good job at it. After that, things like Savannah Heat and Visions of Regret started popping up and things went out of control very fast. Koda Kumi 15:22, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I will agree even further with part of the above post. 1v1 is no basis for balancing. A melee character will beat the crap out of a caster hate mesmer. An anti-melee mesmer will be the crap out of a melee character. A deadly arts casting sin will beat the hell out of an anti-melee mesmer. No part of pvp is purely 1v1. Random arena's and Factions combat areas are also bad examples for pure skill balancing because of all the variables (randomness, turtles, npc's, objectives). I'm not saying that they aren't affected by imbalance, but that clearly certain builds are better than others given all the external variables.

As for the meat of the argument, I don't find that martial characters are at any great weakness. A warrior is going to struggle against a Blinding Surge ele, a curses necro, an anti-melee mesmer. That's all there is to it. But think about this: those classes have low armor and health (sometimes, given superior runes to reach breakpoints). Warriors have lots of health and armor, damage reduction, and can apply decent damage just with regular attacks. Also consider that the bonus damage from attack skills is almost always armor ignoring. Broadening the scope from warriors to all martial classes, they all have the ability to destroy casters. Warriors have a plethora of knockdowns and can take lots of punishment, assassins sacrifice defense for damage and can easily drop squishy targets with a quick run of their skill chain, Dervishes do massive damage and have access to Holy Damage, Rangers can easily apply virtually any condition while interrupting and dealing decent damage, and Paragons... Well, they can apply burning easier than any other martial class, and offer great party wide support. FleshAndFaith 23:12, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

That is not the point. A Mind Wrack or WW mesmer, or water ele can do the same or more damage than a warrior can, but do not have to care about adrenaline, positioning, or timing. If you run a pressure team, there is no reason to run a warrior (like it used to be) because casters are infinitely better at it. Also, you kind of gave yourself the answer to why a warrior is at a weakness. There are a bazillions anti-melee counters. How many anti-caster counters are there in the game? Koda Kumi 09:40, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

They have to worry about energy, skill recharges, and timing. They also have less armor and can't keep up simple pressure just with basic attacks. Also, I can think of 4 major anti-caster counters: Warriors, Rangers, Dervishes, and Assassins. Within those 4 is a plethora of options for shutting down casters, including knockdowns, interrupts, daze, elemental damage tanking, total damage tanking, damage pressure, and damage spikes. If a caster wants to shut down melee specifically, then that's fine. There will be damage dealing casters to take care of them. But the mere presence of one of these martial classes is anti-caster in of itself. FleshAndFaith 04:41, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

I stopped reading when you mentioned dervishes and assassins as counters to casters. Koda Kumi 11:30, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

So you think that high armor, the option of not being targeted by spells, the ability to put out massive damage without needing to build adrenaline, and, in the case of the assassin, instantly move to melee range, aren't inherently useful against casters? I must be high, but that sounds like a really good thing to do if you are trying to kill a caster. FleshAndFaith 06:50, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Stop talking out of your ass. You are not fooling anyone. Koda Kumi 15:51, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Wow, you just won this little debate. I am putting up valid points against your argument, and your only retort is "I stopped listening, you are wrong, you are talking out of your ass." You have an amazing debate strategy, normally only seen from 12 year olds on a diablo 2 forum. I made several good points against your argument, deal with it. FleshAndFaith 22:28, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

There is no point in arguing online. Which is why I do not. Koda Kumi 12:37, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

This is actually the place where you are supposed to "argue" (I prefer the word "debate") online. This is largely opinion, based of course, but that is why these sections are here. You have your opinion, and I have mine, and we are simply comparing them, not trying to prove who is right or wrong. FleshAndFaith 03:07, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

maplestory relation?

I kind of see a maplestory relation here. Warriors get additional hp plus more hp every time they level up, while on the other hand, mages get more mana plus more mana every level up.

Yeah, you are right that casters favor over physicals, but your forgetting one very important thing. Physical's are a lot more of a tank than spell casters. without the high armor physcial's have, the monk would have a hard time energy managing. Your suggestion is more pvp related rather than pve related, so im proposing that Anet give (only for physicals) PvP weapons that give +hp and +armor that is global.

Or...

ANET stops overpowering casters to the point that physicals cannot survive. And makes all casters Have absolutly no armor ignoring skills/spells whatsoever. =D yes I know this is unrealistic because anet loves the mesmer and mesmer is lame and boring, but hey? what can we say? It has to be the brainchild of someone high up in the company who absolutly MUST have it and the players whined because it originally took skill to play, now unfortunatly it is overpowered and loldmg/facerolling to play as even long time mesmers are saying this as they quit playing in disgust. Rogueonion 22:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

PvP has been nothing but faceroll fights since Nightfall came out (it has increased with every expansion and random superbuff). Mesmers can be powerful against physicals, but the entire argument of this feedback page is that mesmers can beat warriors in one-on-one, so casters are overpowered. It's basically like saying scissors always beats paper, scissors are overpowered; the flaw is that scissors always loses to rock. While the majority of the mesmer overhaul was terrible, it's only getting the most hate because it's the most recent garbage (that and its focus was to change mesmers from their very useful role to Fire Magic nukers). Casters were hit harder than physicals by that update, anyways. Dervish are next in line for superbuffs, followed by paragons. I play both physicals and casters often (especially Me, Mo, W, and R, but I play all), I can assure you that physicals are more powerful than casters. Except for paragon, the worst profession that has ever existed. -~=Ϛρѧякγ (τѧιк) 05:12, 18 August 2010 (UTC)