Talk:Feral Aggression

Bug?

This skill can be activated while your pet is dead. From what I remember, other skills like Call of Protection and Call of Haste do not. It might just be because they are shouts, but at least for consistency's sake it should not. ~ Da Si 08:25, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Interesting

Makes pure beastmaster look more interesting to run. For only 5e (or 2-3, considering a ranger's expertise) this looks a bit too good for the cost, though. I'd say 10e, or (again considering the increasing returns of expertise) maybe even 15 would be more appropriate.

I think the biggest cost is just the skill slot, by increasing your pets attack your losing out on versitily for yourself, it allows you to make more aggressive thumpers if you want, but those guys are all ready pretty skill bound. ~Izzy @-'---- 23:09, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

He meant pure builds, ie. no skills for yourself. Backsword 23:13, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I meant for pure beastmaster builds; I can't see anyone using this with a thumper. But pure beastmasters are so rare anyway, because pet AI is just not up to it, so I don't suppose it matters if this skill is a little overpowered for it's cost. Like Izzy says, no-one would use up a skill slot for it on anything but a pure bm build, so fair enough.

I would use it on a Tiger's Fury thumper, despite the already crowded skillbar (and on a pure beastmaster of course), the damage is too sweet not to take. It hope this skill brings back non-RaO thumpers. Narayanese 12:43, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

This is neat. My rt/r can use this along with warmonger's weapon or wailing weapon on the pet.--Redfeather 04:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I'll probably use this on my Strike as One Bow/Pet build. But yeah, this skill is fairly overpowered for it's cost. --Deathwing 05:23, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Even at 10 energy i'd take it over call of haste. 33% instead of 25%, +21 dmg@16BM? totally worth it. add pin down in, you got your build. I want this skill so bad!! 88.169.112.155 18:54, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, this skill is very good. Maybe the skill slot is a limiting factor in PvP, but for any build using a pet this skill is just great. I would even use it at 10 or 15 energy, agreed. --Longasc 10:57, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

While you may not be able to fit this on a thumper I sure could fit this on a R/P in Hero Battles and I think the skill would be overpowered there. I agree with the idea of increasing the cost to 10-15 energy. --Draikin 17:28, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't even think that would be enough of a nerf.....Maybe if you double the recharge on it. --Deathwing 19:24, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

This is one of the few skills that helps make running a pure Beastmaster viable. At most I can maybe see it's energy cost raised to 10 or it's recharge increased to 30, but please leave the damage alone. It's not like we're gonna see a crazy influx of Beastmasters because of this skill.

Seems a bit scary. I agree with the skill slot part, but something like this + Othyug's Cry might make some pets quite scary.

Permanently maintainable +33% attack speed and 20 damage!? Very powerful needs weakening, give it a considerable Energy increase to 15 energy and lower the duration to 5....25 duration (@15 BM) 82.163.43.17 15:28, 23 July 2007 (UTC)Sophitia

Feral Aggression

Otyugh's Cry

Call of Haste

Brutal Strike

Enraged Lunge

Comfort Animal

Charm Animal

Blank

Something like this, for sure. (Call of Haste for the movement buff.) Total slaughter. Feral Aggression really is a bit overpowered as is, and as much as I'd love for it to remain so, it probably does need 10 energy cost and a duration closer to its recharge, but still maintainable. Arshay Duskbrow 20:29, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I ran something like this with three beastmasters on the test weekend, though call of haste isn't necessary. I used tigers fury (so enraged always does +80) and call of protection for super tanking pets. Worked VERY well, three pets destroyed Joten with absolute ease. Maestro Ed 13:45, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

This skill is pretty scary especially with the right snaring skills. Duration is quite long for a 5 energy skill with such a great benefit. More deadly if used with brutal weapon. --Shadetz X 10:15, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I love this skill. Pets were pretty useless before exept for taking damages in your place. A bit overpowered for PvP but till all GW:EN skill are overpowered its ok (except for Necro spells which risk to lead to games winned by advance because of build balancing between teams).--Ttibot 17:49, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

You don't need movement buff on a pet, pets already run fast. Replace Call of Protection with something useful like Distracting Shot, Savage Shot, or sth like that depending on how much energy you can spare. Servant of Kali 09:44, 26 August 2007 (UTC

In PvP you need the movement buff but it doesn't usually matter as pets catch up to their target, start their attack motion and don't hit even with a 25% movement buff and a 33% ias. Pet ai is so freakin annoying this skill would be nice if pets didn't drive you crazy in PvP. 58.110.142.117 08:55, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Damage per second

If my calculations are correct, at 16 BM and with a Dire pet, disregarding the alternative Call of Haste, this proveds almost exactly 30DPS.

As IAS is unaffected, this only goes down slightly with a lower attribute. 28 @ BM 14, 26 @ BM 12. Backsword

Forgot the effect of reduced critical chance.. Make that more like 27 @ 14BM, 24 @ 12 BM. Backsword

Great Skill

I made a new section because I don't want my comments confused with those of people who can't sign... anyway, I love this skill. It makes running wiht a pet much better. I may not like some thing ANet has done, but I love the direction you've taken wiht Ranger pets. ChaoticCoyote 02:31, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Why would you need your pet to attack faster when you run? And who hasn't signed his comment on this page? 84.87.168.39 09:19, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

By running, I think he means using. Sort of like how someone could be "running" a pure Beastmaster build. -- Jioruji Derako.> 12:00, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Enraged Lunge

This + Enraged Lunge...even more dmg!!! :D ----InfestedHydralisk 18:08, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Good idea there, you could easily manage ~130 with the right setup. Of course, you know how this affects Halls. I call it "beastspike."

My guild was bored so we made an enraged lunge spike but never used it and with this that is even more dmg--71.165.250.61 03:19, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Really powerful

Wow... this WASTES strike as one... although strike as one is a horrible elite, it's not often you get regular skills which totally trump an elite. Pets would deal serious damage with this, beastmasters would be like two crappy warriors in one. The great thing about this skill, is it's over 30 seconds duration, a unmarked SKILL, and onyl 5 energy.--Xapti 07:41, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I could see this being used WITH Strike As One. At 15 BM you get a totaled 30 bonus damage to every attack with the pet, and only 10 bonus damage for you, but you can use some attack skills with conditions (Apply poison or Poison Tip Signet) or high damage (Sloth Hunter Shot).Shyke Lightning 18:34, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

This is absurdly powerful *and* promotes the "I brought a pet along" style of beastmastery (thumpers etc) while doing comparatively little for active BM. It will easily add more DPS than any other BM skill excepting Enraged Lunge.

Correction, I think it will promote more "I brought a pet along, then used up half my skillbar just to make the pet slightly more useful at the expense of my hammer attacks" style of thumpers. This skill will really only see use in pure BM, but hopefully, it'll see enough use to make BM builds worth using in some areas. (Beastmasters in PvP would be awesome...) -- Jioruji Derako.> 12:05, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

The problem is the Pet Interface

Nobody will use effectively a full pet ranger until the pet interface and ai works like that. The pet just attack whoever he wants, doesn't react quickly when you change target, you can't tell easily if he used or not an attack skill. These skills are nice but it will ever be for fun only, it's just too random and uncontrollable. I think a full restyle of how the pet skills works are out of discussione cause they don't have time to waste on this, since they will be working on gw2 after that expansion. Anyway it's playable in AB or RA where you can have some fun. One and for all, remove che Charm Animal slot needed to have the pet. It's just too limitating to play with 7 skills, 6 if you count the one needed to ress the pet. Six skills are not enough. Charm animal should work another way.

An object summoning pet would be nicer. You could have some miniatures-like objects that just summon a pet, usable one time per map. It could be cool having more than one, so you could select a different pet, and you can in one moves resolve the issue about the untrainability of the pvp char pets. I don't know how much work it would take, it depends on the minipet back code. --YukoIshii 17:19, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. I use pet controls and my pets behaves fairly well. Of course it can get stuck, but that is part of the charm (no pun intended) of having a pet instead of a bow. it is a creature, not a machine so you can expect it to act independent at times.Nicky Silverstar 19:43, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

My pet is smarter than most people ~ Kurd 19:44, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

same. it reacts immediately once i tell it to attack someone. - Y0_ich_halt 19:46, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

My pet takes about 1-2 seconds to switch targets, but that isn't bad compared to the 30-40 seconds + spamming that it takes for regular people to switch targets. --Deathwing 19:59, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

hehe :) - Y0_ich_halt 20:13, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Translation Suggestions

To avoid some bad skill translations i'm opening a comment for new skills so everybody can post their translation suggestions in various languages, have fun :) --YukoIshii 23:23, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Italian: Aggressione Ferale --YukoIshii 23:23, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
German: Wilde Wut - not a literal translation of "aggression§, but it goes well with the other german translations in the BM line. --Longasc 11:51, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

This skill is win.

That is all.--Atlas Oranos 10:36, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Awsome! This will be great for my mo/r strength of the wild build! Strength of honor+Feral aggression=gg--Yakky 16:16, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more. I've been having a blast using my Croc in Alliance Battles recently. Enraged Lunge by itself gets me all kinds of attention (That usually ends up with me dying. XD;;), but with this skill; It's just going to be even more fun to watch my pet take down unsuspecting players.--Seth Crimsonflare 20:38, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

There is seriously nothing funnier than watching some poor Monk run around desperately as my wolf claws him for 150 damage with Enraged Lunge and 100 or so with Brutal Strike, which end up being unblockable thanks to Otyugh's Cry. - Vermain 00:45, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

...got me a 9-win streak in RA. Only nine points in Beast Mastery, and he still outlasts me and deals about 40 damage per hit, same damage as me at 16 Marksmanship. And once you daze a monk or normal caster, they're shut down for the rest of the match. -- Jioruji Derako.> 00:51, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

The skill is definitely extremely good in practice, but i wouldn't say overpowered. It just makes pets worthwhile for their own damage Patccmoi 05:34, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, they do good damage on their own, but it's reduced so far by armor that it's not worth it. The bonus damage from this means they'll at least do that much; at 9 BM and 16 Marks, my Dire level 17 pet was matching my normal damage. That's worth a few extra skill slots, IMO; this'll probably see use on Barrage/Pet builds, and the occasional Bow/Pet hybrid. I don't think it'll ever leave the bar of a pure BM build. -- Jioruji Derako.> 05:37, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

hehe, i've been using this

Hammer Bash

Crushing Blow

Ferocious Strike

Feral Aggression

Tiger's Fury

Comfort Animal

Charm Animal

Resurrection Signet

—The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Skakid9090. 19:32, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Auron Bushi: my my ya'll are some besserking psycho arent ya'll lets hope no one so much as looks at you funny casue the only thing keeping you alive is 70 points of armor and what 460 hitpoints. vexes me how any1 could make a build w/o at least one self heal.

Hey Izzy

Far too powerful - this provides the DPS of Enraged Lunge with less energy investment, on a non-elite, with no need for multiple recharging pet skills.

It also gives as much benefit to passive use (pet auto attacks) as to those using BM skills. This will be a bunny thumper skill.

If you want to add a nice pet buff, make it a buff to pet attack skills - +bonus damage on pet SKILLS; this will allow it to be powerful, but requires investing in the pet, not just having it tag along. -Epinephrine, not signed in.

I have to agree, after testing this skill in Hero Battles during the preview weekend I think it really needs to be nerfed. --Draikin 18:51, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I think a higher energy cost would balance this out, reducing the damage or IAS wouldn't make it very appealling anymore, 15e feels appropriate to me, any higher and you restrict it's use pure beastmasters who needs high BM and high expertise. Ghostun 00:56, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Lol, a 15 energy it's still an absurd bargain. Over the 30+seconds of use you get the equivalent damage of 6-7 Enraged Lunges - even for a non ranger BM you'd pay 30 energy for that much damage via the elite skill. It's simply too strong, and I am a pretty keen beastmaster. I've wanted to see pets take a greater role in game for a long time, but this isn't the way - this will just end up with pets locked on a monk with Otyugh's Cry and Feral Aggression while you spike another player. -Epi

Just need to give it a cost that makes it impossible to use with a Bunny Thumper... I personally love this skill, and I believe it is still pretty balanced at least by the fact that you're using up so many skill slots for decent DPS. Cry to become unblockable, Call of Prot. so you don't lose your pet over and over, Feral, Charm and Comfort... and now three skillslots for yourself. Two if you feel like bringing a self-heal (unless you bring Heal As One for that purpose). I feel that your DPS with this high, yes, but is it better then Burning Arrow? Keeping in mind, Burning Arrow has a self-heal, condition removal, a res, and can't have one of their weapons killed in battle. -- Jioruji Derako.> 03:07, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Are you asking if Feral Aggression is better than arguably the best elite bow skill? I agree that BA rangers have a great deal of power/flexibility; I'd contend that Heal as One, Feral Aggression and Charm Animal (3 slots) provides your self heal and DPS (about 30 DPS without counting your weapon) - you now have 4-5 slots for utility and extra damage. Don't count Otyugh's in the mix - BA rangers aren't unblockable; that'd be an option, but not to try to fill a BA's role. You are using very little energy to do that DPS, and it can be maintained while you cast spells, hide behind a wall, etc. Add in some Marksmanship or another weapon and you can deal damage as well, adding 20+ DPS pretty easily through auto attacks - without even using skills yet. Yeah, I still think it's overpowered. You can easily add a running buff and condition removal to the above (Run as One and Mending Touch or Remedy Signet, for example), and still have 3 skill slots left for attack skills (spear, hammer, bow?). I can't say for certain that it's "better", but it has advantages. Regardless, while pets are largely weaker than other weapons, I fear that if the skill is too strong that it may be nerfed to uselessness - something that nobody commenting here wants. My desire is to see pets viable, and that includes not giving them skills that will be Ether Renewel'ed into oblivion.

Proposal for an "acceptable" nerf...

I played with this on GW:EN preview weekend and really enjoyed it (PvE only). Sadly I have to agree with the drift of the "overpowered" comments above (and I am too inexperienced to grok how nasty this might be in PvP) but I'd hate to see the fun go away (i.e. leave this in and, plug-plug, make 10e 10c 30r Charm Animal weenie revive my dead pet, then I will definitely be a Beast Master convert). So my suggestion is to keep the skill as it is, but nerf it by making the pet take 2x damage. This strikes me as thematically appropriate and has precedent with skills like Frenzy. Crystalion 23:05, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Double damage on a pet would make this skill completely useless; it's already easy enough to kill pets. Perhaps just a small armor reduction?

The other option is simply to give it a higher energy cost, perhaps, making it harder to maintain when combined with other skills. 25e with high Expertise is fairly manageable, especially with a 20second recharge; you gain about the same amount of energy in that amount of time. Using other skills alongside this would require managing your energy a bit more intensive. Another option would be to lower the duration and recharge, keeping the cost at 10e-15e, but forcing payers to re-apply the skill faster then before. -- Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.>.cнаt^ 02:01, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I like the idea of -40 armor penalty while attacking (or whatever smaller -armor# Izzy et al might find appropriate). High energy costs preclude many builds from enjoying the skill (not fun) and tweaks to duration or recharge tax the player with micromanagement (not fun). My experience is that the pets are pretty hearty in PvE. Clearly in PvP Feral Aggression's big boost should mean the pets can be countered more easily than normal (imagine this skill as it stands but applied to oneself when you don't have a pet... fighting classes would go /R and high BM sans pet just for it and everyone would scream at ANet for wreaking the game). Crystalion 04:06, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Either way, I think it'll be easier to see how it all runs after the game's officially out. So far, we've seen a lot of people running these skills, mainly because they're new. It seems overpowered at the moment, but we can't be entirely sure until it's up and running for a little while at least. Will the damage be on par with other options out there? Will having the extra pet balance out the skillslots you need for it? Perhaps it'll just change the way people think about pets and even out; as it was, I was able to beat many players rather quickly due to the fact that they prioritized different targets. A Warrior ignored my pet, and only went after me after I was applying high pressure; he killed me finally, but ended up dying to my pet, who he had left alive by mistake. Some players bothered to kill my pet first, and I would have to spend the rest of the battle either blacked out, or attempting to revive half of my damage source. Who knows how it'll turn out in the end. -- Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.>.cнаt^ 04:47, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Pets die much too easily as it is. Any form of defensive debuff is wrong for this skill. It has energy, duration, and recharge all to be tweaked if necessary. Personally, I hope any nerfs are slight, I definitely don't want this skill ruined...it makes running a BM build actually a serious idea, and I think that's something long overdue. Arshay Duskbrow 05:05, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Ditto that, of course. I'm already using a Dire Hyena, a defensive debuff would probably stop me from using this skill at all, unless the debuff was very small. -- Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.>.cнаt^ 05:13, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the above. I love the idea of pets overall, but to be honest they're really not the most useful things in the world except in specific situations. In general, they don't seem worth the trouble. They kind of need something like this to make them truly viable in the average setting. (Note that this is coming from a primarily PvE player.) Capcom 05:25, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Ah, this is a lovely skill. Too lovely, in fact. I'd dearly like to use this as a key component of making my R/X and X/R builds able to incorporate pets in a non-wasteful way, but it does need to be cranked down a couple notches or it'll just become the new core thumping skill, get overused, and be nerfed into oblivion. My inclination would be to boost the cost to 15 Energy (making it good for a ranger and affordable for non-rangers) and extend the recharge to 30 seconds. Scale the entire skill duration and damage backward a few ranks to something like 1...20...25 seconds, the damage back to 1...13...16, and lastly to cut the attack speed from a 33% boost to a 25% boost. This makes it impossible for even a full-on Beastmaster to maintain the boost indefinitely, while not cutting it so short as to be futile. I'm not really sure if even that's enough, but going much less than that makes it rapidly approach uselessness for anything but a Ranger primary. The damage reduction coupled with the speed reduction should assist in cutting down the overwhelming damage. Anyway just some passing thoughts, as I'm hoping this will be a genuinely useful skill come release rather than be overnerfed. GammaRay 15:36, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

It seems that in PvP, due to low prioritization, Pets would need the deffensive debuff so they could be countered. In PvE, the AI often tries to kill the weaker foes, and with -armor, your pet would become a prime target. On the whole I think the pet's defensive abilities should be lowered somehow, (effectively making your PvP pets more like Dire pets), but deffinitely not to any extreme. As to energy cost and duration, how does this compare to Call of Protection, with 120s duration and ~15 damage reduction? Da Si 05:30, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Call of Protection boosts defense by a huge amount, is a shout, and lasts for a really long time. In the face of this, it's really just easier for a player to kill the Ranger, rather then the Pet... and in that case, it's a good choice. With Feral Aggression, it's the other way around; killing the Ranger won't stop the Pet from killing you, really (unless that's the end of the match). I suppose a problem would be when - and if - players combine the two.

One thing to note; if you kill a pet with CoP, then the owner can just res. But now here's the part most people don't think about; CoP has a 90-second recharge. That pet's coming back with DP and no protection. Same goes for Feral; kill the pet, and the owner brings back a pet with less health then previously, and no more damage boost. Increasing the recharge and duration of Feral might make that even better, because killing the pet cuts down the Ranger's offense for an even longer period of time while they recharge. -- Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.>.cнаt^ 06:05, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Guys, while I agree that this skill was too good and asked for 10-15 energy myself, I really feel sad that i got triple nerfed: 1. 15 energy, 2. Lower duration (17 seconds by 20 recharge at 12 BM), 3. Lower Bonus damage (halved, 9 at 12 BM). Triple Nerfs are hard to swallow. Now it is even worse than GammaRay suggested, I deem his suggestions to be quite reasonable. It got overnerfed. Will teach me never to praise a skill too much again! :( --Longasc 08:56, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

hey kids, next time don't ask for a nerf if you don't want skills to became overnerfed 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Dumb comment. We ask for a nerf precisely to prevent skills being abused, reaction to it growing and then a massive nerf in response to pressure. Sounds like someone did a knee-jerk nerfing anyway though. Altering 3 characteristics at once? Haven't done the new math, but at half the damage it would have been ok; not sure about how it works with reduced duration and an increased cost - the cost effectiveness will have suffered by a factor of 8 or more. I had hoped it would be limited to pet attack skills, and that it would remain relatively high in damagem, allowing pet attack using beast masters to use it, but denying it to thumpers/passive pet use. --Epi

It's worthless now except for full-on BMs (which is right back to where we started) and even they will have problems using other skills while trying to maintain that. What a stupid, hamfisted handling of the issue. Arshay Duskbrow 13:10, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Ouch, I hate to say that this is about what I expected but not quite what I was hoping for. I can deal with the energy cost and duration change -- 15 is affordable to most non-ranger primaries that could actually make any use of it, and I'd already expected the duration to be less than the recharge. The damage hit is what kills me. That's a far more heavy-handed hit than I can comfortably swallow. Epi's suggestion was great too, having it only "boost" pet attacks would have aided things as well and focused it on Beastmasters. In all fairness, we asked for a nerf this time, and we got it. Here's a requiem for a skill. GammaRay 13:54, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Guess the "acceptable" part didn't make it through. Energy+duration is a strong enough nerf alone, OR halved damage. But jeez, not both. We'll see how it runs in practice now, but I'm not quite sure I have room for this on my pure BM build anymore. You probably end up with higher DPS simply using an extra attack skill instead, now, and that would be less energy-intensive as well. On the ladder of skill balance, this skill just slipped on the rung and fell halfway down, while hitting it's chin on the way and biting it's tongue. -- Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.>.cнаt^ 14:38, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

And a quick question; I have yet to see the report for this nerf anywhere yet, aside from the increased energy cost. Is it listed somewhere? -- Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.>.cнаt^ 14:56, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

(reset) In the game. The skill is still locked, but you can check the stats, and it adjusts based on your BM level. Arshay Duskbrow 16:00, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Someone who knows how to tell the template to display the new values should enter them, I have no idea how to enter them correctly with this "var0, var15" template. --Longasc 16:03, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Done. And might I repeat; OUCH. -- Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.>.cнаt^ 16:12, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Quick question, could any of you number-savvy players crunch the new values and see how it stacks up now? It has gone down a lot, but the 33% IAS is still there for consideration. Maybe it's not as bad as we think, and it's just shellshock from having its overpowered numbers turned down. GammaRay 16:50, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

The duration is acceptable, but 15 energy is too much, and the damage was hit too hard. It should be 10 energy, and the bonus damage should be more, if maybe not as much as originally. I'll probably be posting this skill to Underpowered Skills once GW:EN's out, unless somebody else does it first... Arshay Duskbrow 16:52, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm not sure - I'll have to play it to get the real picture of it, but I agree it's not the direction I'd wanted. I thought on a full BM bar it was pretty solid (and honestly, a bit too much even then) - overpowered on non BM bars, but given the way pets play it was good. The issue to me was that it was so portable to non-BM builds, allowing full hammer/spear/scythe/bow damage as well as huge pet DPS. Testing it will show though - it may be just fine, even as it is it adds a ton of damage - it's better than the damage oriented pet attacks (after all, a brutal strike adds 60 damage for 10 energy, this adds ~90 for 15 energy, so it's on par with a skill like Brutal Strike at first glance. - Brutal Strike can be used to add more overall, but at much greater expense. It's actually still a better than average pet skill, it's just that pets are underpowered, and it's still a passive skill, as useful to a thumper as to a real BM). I'd have been thrilled at 15 energy, the old damage, but only added to pet skills, with the reduced duration even. It's bonus damage would be limited by how often pet attacks are used, making it less useful for non-BM and more useful the more of your bar is dedicated to pet attacks. --Epi

I think the problem of the skill, as mentioned before me, was how it allowed a non-BM build to have a very strong source of damage with the skill. However, I think it's too weak now even for a BM based build. My suggestion would be to make the cost of this skill to be not only the skill itself, but also requiring the player to make a strong investiment on Beast Mastery to make it effective. So I would like to lower the energy to 10, and to add one clause: if Beast Mastery is 13 or higher, the pet does double bonus damage. The bonus damage would then be the same it was before, but if, and only if, there is a heavy investiment on BM. Erasculio 17:38, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

The "On pet attack" aspect would absolutely make it Beastmaster-centric, and I'm fine with that too. Alternatively, it could simply be a skill that scales differently. The skill as it stands now scales in a predictable, linear fashion. Scaling the damage in an exponential or cubic manner with the breakpoint for it to not "suck" at 12BM would rather force it to be used on only those with serious dedication toward the pet (thereby gimping their other damage output sources). The trick is that if it were to grow that way, it could be wildly out of control in damage numbers if not very carefully adjusted...or simply change the growth curve after rank 12, sort of like the way you get diminishing returns for each rank over 12 weapon mastery. Again...just thoughts. I want this skill to be useful, but not to have it show up on every Joe that has 8 beast mastery and doesn't really have any dedication to the attribute line. GammaRay 17:50, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

What about +1..2..3 (hitting +3 at 13 BM?) damage per attack per BM skill on the bar, much like some of these "per signet" skills and such? With 4 skills on the bar it's limited to +12 per attack, and if you have less than 13 (or even 12, I don't care) you'd only get +8. A full BM with 6 BM skills and BM 13+ could get +18, about where it was before. --Epi

That's probably the best suggestion I've seen thusfar. I've never run any pet-inclusive build (that wasn't horrible) with less than 12 BM and fewer than 4 BM skills. My full BM builds are typically 6 to 7 BM skills. It's also far less tricky to get the numbers right than an altered growth curve, but still establishes a solid end result. I'd throw my support behind that, for what little it's worth. GammaRay 18:41, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I disagree on this 13+ BM stuff. You can talk as much about great Beastmasterbuilds as you want, they are rare niche builds. I do not really want them to narrow down the use of this skill even for Rangers to dedicated BM builds only . I think the 3 nerfs to energy, duration and bonus damage were "reasonable", but overdone, all three together were harsh. My suggestions: I think 10 energy would make it hard enough for non-rangers to (ab)use this. 2. The duration should be 20/20 at 12 BM. and 3. Bonus damage should scale more with BM. 12 at 12 BM, but: much less for low 8-10 BM investments and significantly more for higher 13+ BM. Basically a power curve that is rewarding for Beast Masters and still useful for an investment of 11-12. --Longasc 18:55, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Here's more food for thought on alternatives: Scale the IAS boost and bring the per-hit damage back up some, perhaps so that it's a 25% IAS @ 12BM, 33% IAS @15 BM. It'd read something like, "Your pet attacks 1...25...33% faster and deals 0...12...15 additional damage." That's a 2% speed boost per rank, with no bonus damage and 1% IAS @ 0 BM, again forcing at least a reasonable investment to get any decent use. Again, just more passing thoughts, and in the end our suggestions likely won't make a lick of difference since we're not the ones doing the extensive testing for balance, but just throwing out numbers. What seems to be widely agreed though is that it was an accumulation of tweaks that has crushed the skill. In short: overnerf. GammaRay 19:35, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Scaling the IAS is a great idea, actually. For a pure BM, this skill was just fine; the problem was how easy it was to spec 9 into BM and just bring a pet along as an extra, and still get great bonus damage at a huge speed boost. I can completely understand the nerf from that pont of view; I myself was using a Broad Head Arrow build in RA (I mentioned the skills about a section upwards). At 9 BM, my pet was still rolling 40~dmg at high speed. THAT needed a nerf. But the current nerf? That killed pure BM as well, in my opinion. The skill was designed to work for that, but now it's lost that appeal. Make it scale aggressively, giving hardly anything at low BM, but close to it's former glory at pure-BM attribute levels. Make it so Bow/Pet hybrids need to split between 12 Marks and 12 BM to really work well. Just give a little bit back to this skill, I think. Make it utter crap at 3 BM, but useful at 12-15. I dunno. -- Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.>.cнаt^ 04:32, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm still hoping this skill will get a slight tweak to bring it back. I've attempted to make use of it, but I really can't afford its cost and the spot it takes on my skill bar compared to alternatives. It's not terrible...just not quite good enough. Any other thoughts on this since it got mashed? I'm posting here because I'd like to keep Epi's topic below clean of excessive commentary -- it's a very concise and well-put compiliation of all the major ideas so far. Ah well, back to work... GammaRay 16:04, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Feral Agression

Ok Gaile I know you are not the one i need to be yelling at about this but I cant take it anymore. Why did I make my ranger? For pets, I'm a zoologist in real life and I simply loved the idea. But wtf is the crap ur dealing to us beastmasters. Pets are so useless and no matter how many times i tried to make it happen, and trust me that's alot, it cant happen. Feral agression gave me hope, and now it's been triple nerf-hammered. All classes have an overpowered skill in each attribute but beast masters have none. Why cant u let us have 1 decent skill? POR QUE! I mean we dont really have that many options and the options are shrinking each day with crap like this nerf. And u guys did it so sneaky that i think it was just dirty. no lie, it couldnt of been abused for farming, in pvp you have people running touch rangers which u havnt nerfed in the years its been around and if this skill was even in pvp it isnt unstoppable. (not saying a touch ranger is unstoppable but that it is also overpowered) i mean you guys even know people didnt run beast masters b4 this and this was truly a good way for people to see the true greatness behind pets but once again, nobody will play beast master. i mean i thought u guys always encouraged new builds (smite, earth ele, etc.) but after all these years not 1 major breakthrough in the beast mastery field.

And smiting has... *long silence* Readem Sorry, I'll stop trolling now. 01:24, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

YOU SHUT UP!

No words can express my disdain for the "author" of the above. Arshay Duskbrow 02:03, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Are you seriously some kind of scientist? I know it is semi-OT, but I had to ask. --Ravious 03:26, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

I think he means his daddy is a zoologist. --Deathwing 03:33, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

He should have posted this valuable and insightful comment on the appropriate forum, e.g. GWO. --Longasc 06:37, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Nerfed too hard imo.--71.251.177.24 07:06, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Way to kill the skill. Why not reduce the attack speed to 10% also? Maestro Ed 12:17, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, if you are a zoologist (and in fact are educated as such) why write a letter (which in effect you have done) using internet illiteracies like "wtf is the crap ur dealing..." and "i mean i thought u guys... "? I'm not trying to be rude, but if you really were writing to convey your disappointment and wanted it read (and thought about), why not use full sentences and a polite tone? I know that my opinion of someone tends to be affected by the way they present a case - writing in a polite and literate manner shows the person with whom you are communicating that you respect them, and thus they are more likely to listen to you. For me, when I read "wtf" or "stfu" I interpret it as the full phrase, not simply a few letters - and that would pretty much stop me.

because im not like a 70 year old zoologist that uses proper grammar all the time. im still 24 so i have alot to learn about the animal kingdom, u seem to forget what our generation has grown up in (not to mention generations younger than us) what with myspace and e-mail it is just a bad habit i picked up

Omfg, this skill is really overnerfed. ----InfestedHydralisk 23:45, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Auron bushi: oh wow, the dude writes a letter about an aspect of a game in a casual way and people jump down his throat? just because ur a scientist doesnt mean your a grammar nazi or have air of uber discipline and piety. The individual liked the the way it was and brings up a good point about how other profession have skills that easily own this skill. how often do u see a beastmaster, a true beastmaster not some besserker flailing around with a hammer who just so happens to have a wolf at his side. beastmaster need this skill it needed a cheap pet augmentation to bring the rest of the beastmaster skills up to par and this WAS it.

Options, if the skill is still being looked at

So, it looks like the triple nerf happened. The skill is still strong, it provides a decent amount of bonus damage, the issue is that BM builds aren't strong to start with and need a real bonus, and that the current skill provides just as much to BM builds as to those dragging a pet along.

Just to sum up - currently at 12 BM it provides 17 seconds of +9 damage and 33% IAS; this amounts to 4 bonus attacks (12 attacks instead of 8) and thus a total of +108 or so damage from the +9 damage, as well as about 100 points of damage from the 4 extra pet attacks you get - that's 208 damage or so over 17 seconds, on 15 energy. Not a bad skill really, beats most pet attacks. My problem is that it makes no difference if you are a thumper with a pet in tow or if you are a BM; it'll provide the same bonus damage given the pet investment is the same.

So, options include:

1.) Keeping it as it is, the triple nerf. - It's not hugely powerful but is playable and in fact decent. It can be used by a thumper to squeeze extra damage. It's not enough to push a BM build to being really competent however.

2.) Reverting to before. - Unlikely. It was grossly overpowered, to everyone. More damage than elite skills on a fraction the price, and abusable by anyone with spare points for BM.

3.) Somewhere in between. - Similar description and function, tweaking the numbers slightly. This is how most skills are adjusted, but I doubt it'd change much. It would still be a +damage per attack skill, and as such will be difficult for BM builds to derive more (needed)advantage from.

4.) Scale IAS and damage. - Interesting idea, making higher BM more attractive, adds a bit of a multiplier for high BM builds. The obvious 1%+2% per level adds to 33% at 16 BM, and provides a decent 25% at 12 BM, alowing it to potentially have better damage scaling.

5.) Change the damage scaling to non-linear of some sort. - Similar to the above, in trying to get a bigger bonus based on BM being high, as a test of whether the build is simply milking the pet for bonus damage or if it's a BM build. Unlikely though, since nearly everything is linear in GW.

6.) Damage scales on a small range (e.g., +0..2..3), but is multiplied by number of BM skills on bar. - Allows a similar effect to the above, scaling in a non linear manner with more pet investment, since it multiplies a linear BM based scaling with a linear # of skills based measure. Depending on breakpoints could allow for fairly large differences in damage output based on hitting a high BM breakpoint multiplier and having an extra skill or two.

7.) Add bonus damage to pet attack skills only. - Triggering bonuses based on pet attack skills reduces the cost effectiveness of the bonus. In effect, a +20 (for example) damage per pet attack skill is adding +4 damage per energy for a 5 energy attack skill - so while it can reach the amount of damage the skill was delivering before, it's only possible with much energy consumption in pet attacks and by having multiple pet attacks on the bar. Such an option might require setting the duration and cost back to the old level, as to get bonus damage from it requires spending energy on attack skills.

Just trying to summarise, and put some options there for Izzy or others to see. I tried to put them in order of impact/complexity pretty much, with no change or slight tweaks at the top, and those making bigger changes to effect/skill functionality at the bottom. If I missed some please add them... --Epi, hoping to see a decent BM skill out of this, though not horrified by the skill at present.

While I was thinking about how the skill could be made viable again I actually had the same idea you described with option 6. Suppose the skill does +3 damage (at 12 BM) for each BM skill you have. With Charm Animal, Comfort Animal and Feral Aggression you'd be doing +9 damage, exactly what it's doing now. If you have 6 BM skills the skill would be doing +18 damage which makes it almost as good as it was before. I also think that since the recharge and duration are now more balanced the skill doesn't need to cost 15 energy, 10 seems more reasonable. --Draikin 20:04, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Auron bushi: i like the sixth option but just to point out that at +3 dmg per beastmastery skill on the bar you would still get the +9 dmgit has now at 12 beast master simply by haveing the require skills for haveing and maintaining the pet. though as u said this would scale depending uon the build. my build uses 7 BM skills and res. venomous bite, predator bite, Brutal Strike, FA call of prot, Heal as One, charm animal and a rez skill. this would give me and xtra 21 points of dammage, wich considering that in order to put an end to my lil rampage all u ahve to do is kill the defences lil me, aint bad at all. realy like that option though as it helps out anyone who wants to carry a pet and realy helps out BM who need it.

This is stupid!

Why the heck did you nerf this skill so bad?! Beast masters and Hybrid BM/Bow builds were looking up to this skill and now this skill is nothing but a pile of CRAP!! I could accept the damage being nerfed down to 15 at 15 BM, or have the energy at 10 or the duration just matching the recharge so it would be harder to keep up, but THIS!?!? Anet, If you nerfed this just because it would be used in PvP on a bunch of crappy Bunny Thumper builds, FACE IT! PVP IS USELESS NOW ANYWAY! THE HALLS CANNOT BE HELD FOR FAVOR BY ANY COUNTRY USING THIS SKILL, AND THE FAVOR SYSTEM IS CHANGED ANYWAY!!! You just nerfed a freaking PvE skill that would have been the ONLY TICKET for an average Beastmaster to get into a PUG or mission group!!! Buff it back up a bit... 15 damage at 15 beast mastery, and 10 energy, with 25-30 second lasting at 15 BM...please. Thank you for your time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.177.250.118 (talk • contribs) 01:51, 1 September 2007 (UTC).

you just said pvp = ha. that's totally wrong. pvp consists of arenas, for which favor doesn't matter. a big part of pvp is gvg, which always abuses overpowered skills, so until a nerf there would've been no teams without beastmasters in gvg. hero battles are also pvp, and heroes are pr0 at keeping up things like this automatically. woulda been abused just like sb sins are. pvp is not useless. the game's still named Guild Wars. and afaik it was thought as a pvp game, mostly Guild versus Guild. with the buffs you described, this skill would completely kick conjure outta meta. it has no activation time, can't be removed, would be cheaper than conjure for R/x and it would be just as much damage without having to take ele secondary. - Y0_ich_halt 00:34, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Im primarily a PvE Player, and I'm tired of Anet "balancing" skills just because they are abused by PvP (except SF, I liked that nerf)! Most of the skills in the game are meant for PvE players, and PvP keeps nerfing all of them, making PvE pretty damn frustrating... I was mad about the Spirit Rift casting time nerf and now this shows up and ruins my pet/bow Hybrid Build that worked really good... Even using GW's least used Elite skill! About the conjures THIS THING IS FOR YOUR PET, PETS CANT USE CONJURES... as for me, I want freakin skill bars with nothing but the primary prof skills in it, not that conjure crap, let alone all the conjures are crap anyways. And if every team in GvG had a beast master, wouldn't it be equal?! Everyone has a beastmaster, cancelling out the others' beastmaster... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.177.250.118 (talk • contribs) 04:23, 1 September 2007 (UTC).

Oh, of course. Skills should be balanced for PvE right? So if I nerf your Barrage and SS and AoE skills, what are you gonna do then, cry to mommey? Servant of Kali 14:27, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

using conjure will nearly double the damage you do with every strike. this skill would've been stronger than conjure because it is not an enchantment and does not affect you, but your pet. also, the aim of nerfing and balancing is widening the window of builds used. and if everyone has a beastmaster that's totally not what anet wants. - Y0_ich_halt 14:35, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Tell me, HOW does a 15 energy thing for pets only able to kept up at 15 BM supposed to "widen the window of builds"? This costs so much it wouldn't fit on anything, and then we're all back to the cookiecutter builds of Burning Arrow, Barrage, Tank Master Rangers, etc. This thing was weak enough as it was since pets are normally easier to kill than players, especially if the pet is Dire, and thus removable... Also, Conjures force you to go elementalist secondary, then put points in an attribute just for it... let alone you have to have an elemental weapon to use it, and it gets less effective on other rangers. As for the BM on every team, yeh I can understand that... But that already is happening with Bunny Thumpers, and won't end no matter how much you nerf this skill or all the other ranger skills. And Servant of Kali, that isn't what I said if you even READ my comment. Balance from PvP skills and the occasionally overused PvE, but stop dropping the atom bomb on every one... Since nerfing it to the extent of it being so useless it just takes up space on the game and gathers dust isn't helping anyone. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.177.250.118 (talk • contribs) 20:33, 1 September 2007 (UTC).

a pet can be killed more easily and it can be resurrected more easily. what you said about conjure is true and that's why this skill would be overpowered if that nerf was undone, because it wouldn't have those downsides. I think the duration/attribute ratio was set to this intendedly, because it's not meant to be kept up. this skill can be used as it is, it's not stronger than conjure (which i take as a point to compare because it has a similar effect) and not weaker, it's just different and its strength depends on the situation. that's what shows it's balanced. this makes some conjure-similar builds possible but leaves more room for variants as it doesn't limit to one secondary and a specific weapon. that's what i meant. - Y0_ich_halt 18:41, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, a pet can be resurrected more easily, but even when after resurrection it won't have Feral Agression on it unless you use it again. And you are right about the conjures being good in different situations. But I really don't want to compare Conjure to this though, since in PvE Conjure isn't very popular. I really don't think this really had to be nerfed up to such high energy... Sure I respect that it can only now be used with efficiency by Rangers, but even with expertise, the cost is pretty high. Ah.. but I'm just rambling aren't I?... I'm going off the energy management of the build I made on the preview event with this, it required a zealous weapon and Rapid Fire with a short/flatbow just for energy. Then again I'd have to test it again... Since I'm getting EoTN back today, I don't have it and I can't test it right now. I still do stick to the opposition of dropping an atom bomb on every skill that attempts to "own", though. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.177.250.118 (talk • contribs) 21:11, 1 September 2007 (UTC).

maybe anet wants to bring things like Archer's Signet to use? kinda so you can focus all your energy on this one skill and don't need any for attacks o.O - Y0_ich_halt 22:58, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I was actually thinking Energizing Wind ... I even tried that in my build (got it back now) and it just ended up reducing the DPS... Aside from that, Archer's Signet has too long of a recharge and too little of lasting time to be used at all. even if you tried to use Mantra Of Signets with it, you still pay 15 energy for that. Back on topic, cut the cost down to 10 and everyone will be happy... Please. Even Conjures only cost that much =\.

because conjures have other downsides :P well, it's still a bit too much looking at the recharge time and how often you have to use it. :) - Y0_ich_halt 15:05, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Umm, aren't you getting, like, a 50% damage increase just from the attack speed boost? I figure Apply Poison is comparable pressure at a comparable cost and recharge, and that one is, like, everybody's favorite ranger prep. — 130.58 (talk) 17:10, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

wow, i totally forgot this also has IAS for your pet. - Y0_ich_halt 17:13, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Apply Poison is so much more pressure. Remember, it's 8 DPS per target you hit. Easy to establish 40+DPS via poison.

Auron Bushi: Cut off the head and the body will die... being able to buff your pet comes at a price. you sacrifice the defences of the head in this case you the character. beastmaster are so easy to killl it aint even funny and shortly after you dead your pet will loose it's buffs cause ur not there to maintain it. granted with the new interface you can still sick you pets one foes while your dead (if they are withinh ear shot of your corpse) Comparing FA to conjure is Moo point. Your pet is your weapon in this case and your weapon is killable! now if i could some how break the bow in your hand rendering both the conjure and your weapon useless for a period of time i would understand your argument. but this isnt WOW there is no Disarm skil with that mechanic. also bare in mind that the pet is mellee doesnt move much faster( if it moves faster at all) than a player w/o augmentation... it basically a remote control mini warrior, and is vulnderable to all the clasic anti mellee strategies. the skill was no where near overpowered as all u had to do was criple, blind or creat a criply or blind effect. Pacfism amityBinding Chains would shut it down completey. one of the key aspects to an over powered skill is if it can be countered or not. take SF spell casting range 1sec cast time wider area of effect short recharge time, even with the castor dazed this is a powerfull skill. however blind the pet and FA becomes useless. this could add +300 dmg and 50% atack boost for all i care because it can be nulliefied with one simply easily spamable spell, blinding flash. with but one skill the pet itself can be coutered! there is very lil you could do to make a skill whos soul perpose is to empower your pet "overpowered". Oh and did someone mention useing Weapon Spell on their pet? pets dont carry a weapon so no. and yes i know that conjure is not a weapon spell so dont go off on some nit picky little rant about that.

Heck if they wanted to they could have made it a stance. that way i couldn't be combined with skills like call of haste and run as one wich track as stances on you pet. that would solve the "issue" of it no being removable. which wasnt a problem at all. pfft couod have kept the efects the same, made it trak as a stance and increaased the duration and recharge time to some ridiculous amount like other pet buffs that way if removed the BM could re-apply it for a while. could have given it a 3 second casting time makeing it interuptable. ther are so many things you could have done to balance out this skill but instead you took away all its weight.

and what gets me the most is that GW 1 has reached its maturity. it will no longer continue to grow, aquire more skills and profession Anet has made a decision and the desicion is BeastMastery is a attribute not to be taken seriously its there to attract players to the game allow them to play around with it a lil bit. xplore it and move on. Do ya'll realise this. EoTN is very likely the last installment in GW1 the devs have moved on to GW2 and the skills we have now is all we'll ever have... If this skill doesnt proved the offencsive power needed by beast masters than what will. Enrage lunge? yeah it call protective spirit, Enraged lung could do +300 dmg per rechsrgeing BM skill and it would be negated with prot spirit. an as that skill stands now. in order for it to reach its full potention you will need several BM skills with realy long reacharge times, wich rules out other BM atack skills so Enraged lung is the only dmg skill you have and its being countered by prot spirit... nice --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:68.240.237.247 .

I do have too agree that beast mastery is basically worthless compared to using your other attributes for your class. For my first character in guild wars, selected ranger secondary for the pet but eventually realized that it was more of a cumbersome and waste of skill slots than being an actual help.Highway Man 08:49, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Over-nerfed ):

Feral Aggression went from a little obviously over-powered to hard to justify a skill slot anymore at the costs it takes. The only way I could take the 15e cost is if it went to 15+ attack, but at the 10+ it gives now it shouldn't require more then 10e to cast, especially when held up against most other Beastmaster skills that take only 5e to cast. It takes too mighty a bite out at 15e for the bang it provides. Alternatively, it would do great in it's un-nerfed form as an Elite, thus also preventing the damage stacking between it an Enraged Lunge together, though I know how Anet doesn't often change skills from Elites and back. If it could be buffed lightly, even if only for PvE to prevent Beastmaster build spams in PvP, it would be much appreciated. (: User:5.185.23.216 9:08, 15 December 2008 (GMT)

It's still very usable at 15 energy. Standard part of any good BM build, really. Get your Expertise up, and mix in Scavenger Strike if you really need to. Arshay Duskbrow 01:30, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Ya, 15e really isn't a problem with expertise and the fact that you only use it every 20 seconds. I get pretty nice damage out of the skill, and the 33% IAS means I can get in more pet attack skills as well since you can only use attack skills as often as you can attack. Necromas 08:31, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

This or Brutal Strike?

I have a Beast Mastery build that I'm working on, but I can't decide whether the last skill (I have 7/8 currently) should be Brutal Strike or Feral Aggression. If I can get my target down to below 50% quick, then Brutal Strike is better, but for OVERALL Damage Per Second, Feral Aggression would be better, right? Than 06:01, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Rata Sum?

This skill is also availible in Rata sum from Ybbob. can someoen add to the page?--Smroz01 21:32, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

If you can get to Rata before EoTN, call me. --Neil • 21:33, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

PvE/PvP Split

If Anet was so worried about this being OP in PvP, why not just split it like tons of other skills in GW? 120.158.105.55 07:27, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Yeah if this had a 10 energy cost in pve, I might consider bringing it - 10 energy @ 9 expertise is just too much when you have pve spells available for the same cost like GDW, EBSoH + PI. File:User Chieftain Alex Chieftain Signature.jpg Chieftain Alex 15:43, 4 April 2012 (UTC)