Talk:Pious Fury

Skill Tweaks 07/26/07

• Pious Fury: 4..10s -> 2..6s discuss skill change here. ~Izzy @-'---- 23:31, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I think this change makes the skill a lot more balanced, now it requires you to invest in mysticism for it to be worth using and the low recharge makes it a good alternative to Heart of Fury. --Draikin 00:24, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

And sins won't be using it on burst bars, which can only be good. -Auron 00:27, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

much better... this makes it much less effective on dervish secondaries. i am still scared of melandrus dervishes with +33%IAS 50% of the time. Theyre going to hurt if you cant kite them. I just hope noone buffs dervishes with hasty refrain... giving them an almost permament +25% speedboost. Wow i just got a great idea for my frenzy happy warrior, no need for speedboost cancel stances anymore with hasty refrain! 87.194.81.41 00:29, 27 July 2007 (UTC) Lorekeeper

only 6 seconds IAS is a joke with a scythe, I think this change makes this skill a waste

Can be kept up about 50-60% of the time. With no drawback. Compare to Frenzy and Flurry.They both have a nasty drawback for their 100% uptime. --Deathwing 01:16, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

NO DRAWBACK ?! This skill removes one enchantment and is in the Mysticism attribute line, just the same as Heart of Fury. Thus this skill is totaly useless for Dervishes who used Wind & Earth enchantments with lower (8-9ish) Mysticism. This is just an alternative to Heart of Fury for Avatar Dervishes. Miss Velvetine 01:29, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

No, Earth dervish will use Vital Boon before they use this, so it is actually an ADVANTAGE. Wind dervish can use this to remove Grenth's Fingers to even snare their target, again,and ADVANTAGE. Edit: Grenth's Aura can also be used to remove pre-protting. --Deathwing 01:34, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

(to anon) 150 damage autoattacks are bogus enough already, anything that allows them to hit more often is a danger. This skill is already better than HoF because you don't have to stop to cast it - you can activate it for spikes and get an almost guaranteed kill. -Auron 01:19, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

People underestimate how bad removing one enchantment from a dervish is. As of now the drawback of the skill far outweighs its benefit .

No dervs auto-attack at 150 unless they're running Vow of Strength... I don't see why people look at the 'strip enchant' as if it's a bad thing, it's actually a very good thing likely. Just build around it. Grenth's Aura is a very, very obvious combination. Bash someone, they SoD him, activate Pious Fury which drops Grenth's Aura and strips SoD and you spike them FASTER while SoD is on recharge. Deadly. Very good change, makes it more of a spike IAS and less of a 'i hit 50% faster all the time' IAS, and kinda unusable for the IAS by secondaries. Will be a very interesting skill to have in a build and might make those 'drop' enchants more viable. If your build requires enchants to stick (like some1 who mentioned Conjure Dervish), well obviously this isn't the best option and take Heart of Fury instead. But this can combo very well with stuff like Aura of Thorns, Grenth's Aura, etc. Patccmoi 02:08, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Looks balanced to me now. :D Might even give Grenth's Fingers some use to inflict the cripple while you spike, or Grenth's Aura to remove some prot. ~Seef II <☎> 03:53, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Consider the following. No other skill in the game removes any enchantment from yourself instantly, while you're attacking. This is a stance. There are tons of skills that have these extra effects when they end. With this, you can remove some skill off yourself, use an attack that removes an enchant to do the same thing, and attack faster with it all in the same instant. I'd say it'll see some play for some burst damage type builds. --Skye Marin 04:26, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Like the change. Brings it back to balance with Heart of Fury. Living Parasite 07:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

To everyone saying losing an enchant is a bad thing. Ask your friendly Monk to give you a RoF and you're set. Gothica 20:11, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Love the updates to it, should work blazingly well on a Pious Renewal-related bar. --Tayos 04:48, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Meh, Id rather have it on a 15 second recharge with 10 duration at 14 myst, but its a nice change still.--72.64.46.60 17:06, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, as said above ... can be cept up 50% of the time most likely ... i'd reduce recharge a bit aswell - to around 7-8 seconds Eli Wiki 23:33, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

People underestimate Dervs that don't rely on enchantments, or on enchantments that they want to remove. This skill is amazing on the right bar, and doesn't need a buff. --SoraMitsukai 19:26, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Heart of Holy Flame at 15 mysticism, plus this = over 100 hp loss, at the same time you get an IAS. You would be a squishy target but after that spike comes the scythe attacks....When this ends Heart of Holy Flame is almost done recharging.--Wealedout 03:59, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Original skill feedback

Interesting... Chain this with Heart of Fury and you can get a near-constant 33% IAS (constant IAS at 15 Myst)--Valshia 23:56, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Do you have to lose an enchantment for the effect to take place? The way I'm reading it, making an enchantment-less Dervish with 13 myst, 14 scythe would be the way to go; you'd have IAS up 9/10 seconds for only 5 energy... that's pretty good tbh. -Auron 00:18, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

This looks like an attack speed version of Pious Haste. The enchant removal should be at the end like Pious Haste. Uncontrolled enchantment removal limits the use of Pious Haste, because you could remove something important. This skill you could just freely use and know what enchant is being removed. However...Pious Haste > Pious Fury could be fun to remove 2 enchants instantly causing conditions. --Deathwing 01:25, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm guessing you do have to have the enchantment to remove for the IAS to activate. Otherwise, wouldn't they have put the enchant removal at the end of the skill?203.217.0.53 01:29, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Nah, you can use Pious Haste forever without enchantments, I think this'll work the same way. -Auron 01:43, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Burst of Aggression redux. 66.67.187.203 04:19, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

yep. drop duration at lower levels 88.169.112.155 10:49, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Agree, 2...10 like BoA would be a bit more balanced. 220.101.180.184 10:55, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I find this skill incredibly overpowered. It can last enough to be kept up forever, and losing one enchant is something that isn't half as worrying as "take double damage", for example. Compared to the other IAS skills out there, this one is much better and would make Melandru Dervishes, which are already considered imbalanced in PvP even stronger. Ledah 16:36, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Im sick of seeing mels being the only derv run in gvg, I hope it rather this get nerfed. Every other skill the dervish has is outclassed by mels, and I really hope Izzy changes that.--72.84.72.113 07:13, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Also, is anyone else sick of dervishes being a one trick pony when it comes to pvp?(mels derv that is)

Yes. And that is why I hope Atrophy affects skills that are currently being activated. I want 10 seconds trees.

A cheap, non-elite 33% IAS with a 100% uptime and a negligible drawback. NERF PLS. --Symbol 09:42, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Nice skill, maybe it needs a little nerf on its duration (or increase its reload up to 15s). that could be nice for Dervishes since they would have the choice between 2 IAS : a rather long one Heart of Fury and maybe after a nerf a short one with this. The fact that it makes you loosing an enchantment is a good thing actually, since it kinda reduces the effectiveness of the skill, especially for Wounding Strike Dervishes, it would also reduce the ability to use skills such as Twin Moon or so... May also be used by Dervish secondary prof (assassins i mean since they do not have IAS, maybe another choice between this and tiger stance ?). Need a nerf but a really really small one, it shouldn't be spammable :p 91.168.173.210 10:11, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

combine this with Signet_of_Mystic_Speed and your mels are one step...jump further into deep imbaness. This needs a nerf, really. Maybe make it an enchant instead of a stance and give it a 1 second activation...

best part is you dont have to lose an enchantment for the IAS. - 75.75.148.44 17:30, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Totally imba. This is like Frenzy on a Dervish... but you don't have to be good to use it! --TimeToGetIntense 05:44, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Ether Renewal this skill. --Racthoh 15:56, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd hit it. 69.109.171.112 16:55, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

It is Mysticism so only dervish can use it. Dervishes rely strongly on enchantments, this skill removes enchantments. Sounds balanced to me.

comment: need to clarify whether 33% increased attack speed only activates if an enchant is removed or not. If 33% attack speed boost occurs regardless... this skill needs changing. It will be used on Sins as a replacement for the old Burst of Aggression which is now nerfed. Its far superior to Tigers stance because of the recharge and it stays on even if you miss. Why use frenzy anymore? The only drawback is the need to use dervish secondary. Dervish primaries will have a huge boost from this skill as it is. Does the melandrus dervish need more attack speed as it stands? Do dervishes in general suffer from lack of DPS?

suggestion: Either/OR the following - This stance ends if you become enchanted or hexed. Make duration 1-2 seconds at 0 mysticism. You cannot be enchanted while in this stance. You move 25% slower while in this stance. Your attack skills cost x% more while in this stance. Your attack skills do y% less damage while in this stance. You cannot be the target of spells while in this stance. Something like that.

87.194.81.41 11:03, 24 July 2007 (UTC) Lorekeeper

All skills that are worded like this work no matter if the enchant is removed or not. The others state 'if an enchantment was removed, ...'. The scaling definitely needs changing. And the synergy with Grenth's Aura is damn good too. Put Grenth's Aura up, want to go spike someone, activate your IAS and he loses an enchant at the same time... that's like gg pre-prot. It should at least only work if an enchantment was actually removed. Patccmoi 15:31, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

This skill does seem to be really overpowered. First of all, it would be used by SP assassins instead of Tiger's Stance since they don't care about the enchant removal and it only has 10s recharge. Secondly, giving frenzy without the double damage to a Melandru dervish is probably not a good idea. How about changing it to "For 2...7...8 seconds, you attack 33% faster while not using an Elite Form."? --Draikin 16:34, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Check this out. "Lose all Enchantments. For each one lost, you attack 33% faster for 1..5 seconds." This way, any dervishes wanting full use of this have to have enchantments to sac to get a durable duration, most likely forgoing a speed boost (unless using Balthazar). I'd say that's plenty comparable to the double damage found in Frenzy.--Skye Marin 21:05, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Raise recharge to 15, Dervishes DO NOT, need some double damage bs, their base armor is 70, I think this balances it out, but wth do I know.--72.84.72.113 04:53, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm thinking about just raising the recharge on this, from 10 to 15ish. ~Izzy @-'---- 18:59, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I think recharge of 15 would actually balance the skill pretty well. It's the first thing i would've done too Patccmoi 20:58, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Drop the 0 spec duration down to 1, if not this will probably work its way into the normal assassin attack chain. They could even make use of the ending enchantment function with skills like Aura of Thorns. --Deathwing 21:00, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I'll agree with something Ensign said in another thread though. You shouldn't have to balance every single IAS in the game in function of ONE combo that Assassins use with them that is too strong. Fix the problematic Assassin skills instead. Patccmoi 07:17, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

It is going to be hard to "fix" the assassin though. They are meant to go through an attack chain quickly. IAS stances make this quicker. Unless you somehow make all Dagger Attacks remove stances. Shadow Prison just goes so well with Black Spider Strike and Black Lotus Strike that you would have to nerf one of them to hell and back to "fix" the assassin. Even if you do this, new attack chains will come out. You just can't "fix" that assassins spike, that is what they are meant to do. Like "fix" how monks can heal. --Deathwing 07:26, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

The Black line shouldnt have two offhands that bypass leads in the first place.--72.84.72.113 11:01, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

When i use the SP assassin in an argument over the balance of an IAS skill its due to the fact the no other combination of skills highlights an imbalanced IAS better than the SP assassin combo. The SP assassin combo is still highly effective without imbalanced IAS. It just becomes insanely powerful when it can be carried out so fast. The effectivness of Warrior skill combinations are balanced by the need for snares/adrenaline/energy/IAS. Dervish are limited by snare/energy/ias. Assassins are not limited by adrenaline, energy or snares since the SP build snares target and the snare is practically impossible to avoid. Bulls strike/shock/cripple for a warrior are far more conditional and really not as reliable than SP is for an assassin. And an assassins combo generally pays for itself in terms of energy, it might take a few hits between bursts to reload to full but its not nearly as limiting as adrenaline is for a warrior. Dervish need to spec into wind prayers for cripple, or to hit with crippling sweep or bulls strike to perform their snare to allow them to fully unload an effective combo on their target. The biggest limiting factor for dervish is snares, but they make up for this by the fact that they only really need to hit once to inflict a great deal of dmg.

The SP assassin needs a limiting factor in the same vein as these other melee classes... where the limiting factors act as balancing mechanisms. Its very important to not provide such an easy IAS to assassins because IAS is practically the only limiting factor in their effectiveness.

if you took away the ease at which the SP sin can snare its target to unload its full combo... or you reduced the effectiveness of the assassins energy management i think you would take away the intended strengths of the class. i think assassins are meant to be self sufficient killers... they dont need teammates to snare their targets and they dont need to store up large amounts of energy or adrenaline to kill anything. i dont think its unreasonable to use the SP sin as a yardstick for IAS balancing.

even if we forgot about the SP sin... +33% IAS that lasts for 40% of the time even for non-dervish primaries without a significant drawback is unparalleled by any other skill in the game. That by definition points to an imbalance, if by definition you consider balance to be where the player has multiple options available to him/her to achieve a similiar effect. As it stands, all other IAS are obsolete in comparison to pious fury.87.194.81.41 14:17, 26 July 2007 (UTC) Lorekeeper

and i finnaly thought id get a reasonable ias for my dervish in pve, the pve crowds in gw are saddened (we do exist )

why was this nerfed at all, revert to 4..10s. 87.189.238.32 14:45, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

The best thing'd be to satisfy most of us: Make it last 0..10..11 and the enchantment removal at the end. Everything's fine then. Noctarch 23:50, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

shure it is wether we die in 6 seconds or in 4 it doesnt matter Lilondra 16:53, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

This and Dwarven Stability

If you used this with Dwarven Stability, would you get the increased stance time before removing it, or after? 68.55.14.167 00:31, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't work. The enchantment is removed before the stance is applied. Too bad. Pudding 10:56, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

So like, my name is Pudding and I'm so bad I didn't realize Dwarven Stability=/=Dervish enchantment.71.173.177.243 22:39, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Ups, learn to read when comments were posted. 95.144.50.165 17:26, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes Pudding, U so bad u forget that they changed PF skill function after those comments >_>. Speaking of Dwarven stability does this mean we get can 4x the duration of PF with all conditions met? -Wrei110.175.241.56 00:52, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

I thinks so, go test it out and report back here! :p --RhoninSoren 11:42, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

tested it and yes. --RhoninSoren 20:27, 13 March 2011 (UTC)