Talk:Spain

I really want to add

"Spain" redirects here. For the Spanish-speaking country located in real-world Europe, see Spain.

to Spiritual Pain now. horrible | contribs 15:02, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

I think that people have been a bit overzealous with all these abbreviations lately. It's okay if the skill defines a build (so usually elites, such as ST, SoS, E-Surge, 100B, VoS, AoTL, IW... maybe with the new skills we'll get to see stuff like "7WS", "TW", "HR" and "TaO" arise), but here?--Ruine Eternelle 15:50, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

I'll go on a limb and say that if you ask a hundred random players if they have ever heard Spiritual Pain being referred to as "Spain", a hundred-and-one will say they haven't. This redirect is so far fetched it teeters on the edge of bogus. -arnosluismans (talk) 20:48, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Jesus Christ who cares you're all behaving like nibbers --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.58.231.35 (talk).

Well you care enough to post this message. We want to keep redirect pages that only refer to known abbreviations, not keep pages just to simplify the search for a skill or other reasons. Arno, Horrible and I have been harsh on this topic, please excuse us.--Ruine Eternelle 07:25, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

spain is actually part of the common nomenclature, and has been for quite some time. The skill sees a ton of use, not the least of which is literally every single general purpose meta hero team. The speed clear community has referred to it as spain for over a decade. Practically nobody actually says "spiritual pain" unless you are explaining stuff to someone who isn't fluent in English or who is completely and totally new. The redirect should stay, as should SPain. All 3 variations of spain, Spain and SPain are widely used. 76.127.242.82 10:50, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

I added this redirect because I see people calling it spain (with various capitalizations) all the time. Even if you don't think it's a very common abbreviation (it is), what's the harm in having a re-direct page? Mist Y (talk) 22:53, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Exactly. If we're removing this, a ton of stuff like cry, SB, and FB should also be removed. This removal tag is both silly and wildly inconsistent with numerous existing abbreviations that have been around for upwards of a decade. 76.127.242.82 02:48, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

It's been days and nobody has brought anything new to the table. I've reverted this. 76.127.242.82 21:06, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Although I don't think we reached a consensus here, I will follow Misty with the redirect. I expect more obscure abbreviations to pop up though.

Someone mentioned cry : cry of pain or frustration? Because cry leads to the latter, while cryway leads to the former.

N. B. : To Alex who added the delete tag, imho this was a good practice and necessary step to get the discussion started. I appreciate that you did it. - - Ruine Eternelle 22:55, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

How are we supposed to get "consensus" if nobody is going to respond for several days? The abbreviation is widely used. Just searching on the global discord will bring up hundreds if not thousands of instances of exactly that.

If anything, get rid of several of the anniversary elite names. Nobody is using time ward for serious setups. It has zero use in organized play since the bug fix, and is terrible for AI teams. It does not need to be mentioned, nor does Teinai's Wind (which sees use but isn't abbreviated much). Over the Limit will never see play. In a few months it will almost never be mentioned. Judgement strike, wotf, are similarly useless. Vow of Revelation would conflict with an existing redirect and that skill will never see use either. Soul Taker and Shadow Theft at least have uses, but conflict with Soul Twisting. I've seen many people abbreviate things as theft sin (instead of wota sin) or taker necros (sometimes taker (weapontype) to denote the type of build being run). Whether theft/taker are deserving of redirects remains to be seen.

Regardless, this is not the page to have this discussion. This one should have never even been brought up in the first place. Even a cursory amount of research would have shown widespread use. You, or anyone else, could have easily verified this information before making sweeping decisions to degrade the quality of information on the wiki. This skill is frequently abbreviated, and it is a an outright lie on your part to claim that abbreviations are reserved for elites or keystone skills, which is again something you could have easily verified. 76.127.242.82 23:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Calm down; take a deep breath. These are redirects you're getting exacerbated about. If you're feeling this worked up over them, then I suggest taking a small break to realize that a {{delete}} template is hardly a sweeping degradation of the wiki. When you're ready, perhaps you'd be interested in the {{disambig}} template and its uses. You may find it satisfies other issues you have noticed. Greener (talk) 01:21, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

I am calm enough. The fact is that a significant portion of my edits from this IP and several others have been reverting changes made by several dissenters to this redirect or having my edits reverted by them only to be met with silence on the talk pages. If it were just this redirect whatever, but a huge amount of pointless reorganization and "tidying up" has happened lately, and many pieces of pertinent information have been removed for no reason with no discussion until brought up on talk pages. I have no way of knowing what else has been missed without going through months and months of edits.

These aren't matters of opinion like "such and such is a fun skill" but empirically true statements such as how EVAS functions, that Ghast Ashpyre will use his skills on the fire imp, that this is a commonly used abbreviation etc, etc, etc. None of these are debatable topics that require consensus. They are easily testable and verifiable facts. My statements reflect those facts.

Then what happens? I get snide comments about not waiting for consensus after being ignored for days on this and every other topic? Yeah, I think I'm entitled to being a bit miffed about that. 76.127.242.82 10:03, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

"S Pain" is indeed widely used. Redirect makes sense.

Kevin, you are aware of the fact that telling someone who's a bit agitated to "calm down" usually has the opposite effect? :P Steve1 (talk) 10:24, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

At least we can thank him/her to gives us material to improve our diplomatic skills. I feel that we are just debating "content" versus "clarity" so far.

Last note is that nobody can know for sure everything about anything, especially softwares we haven't worked on. It is pure illusion. This is why there is a wiki, and why wiki is based on proofs. Like science. -Ruine Eternelle 13:10, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

It's ironic that you are talking about science when you seemed unwilling or unable to do even cursory research on the aforementioned topics and have consistently made sweeping statements that are trivially disproved. We can and do know a great deal about how things work. We may not know the exact manner that something is coded in, but the if the end result is absolutely consistent we can certainly document that.

YOU may not know much about how the AI or a random skill functions, but that doesn't mean that nobody else does. 76.127.242.82 18:11, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

To re-iterate what I said on discord when this topic came up. I'm not familiar with this particular abbreviation, but I will readily admit that Spiritual Pain has become a staple on mesmer hero bars in PvE. I'm willing to accept the existence of the redirect (even if it is a bit funny) so I'm not going to bother contesting the removal of the deletion tag. The existence of the redirect shouldn't overly concern anyone. -Chieftain Alex 16:08, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

The fact that these things are being discussed elsewhere with no apparent documentation is part of the problem. It's the exact same problems of 10 years ago with private circle jerk IRCs. 76.127.242.82 18:11, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Is there a GWWiki Discord server? Why is it not prominently advertised..? Mist Y (talk) 16:53, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

There's a gw2w discord server, which for the most part killed the IRC Channel (where the channel #gww was used for both gww and gw2w). As a result, it has a channel for gw1w matters. horrible | contribs 17:18, 2 June 2020 (UTC)