User talk:Ruine Eternelle

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Hai :3[edit]

Just wanted to say thanks again for the comment you left on my talk page and for making the red link turn blue! I also answered there, but you can never be too sure people see it. I really enjoy your user page, and I've been loving editing the wiki at the moment! I've created a very personal layout to my page so I'll be able to keep it updated for whoever might be interested :P

As for LDoA, I'm moving forward! My E/Me is now level 9 and looking forward to starting with the Vanguard quests. I'm a really big coward though, so I don't get a lot done due to the constant fear of dying (because I'm aiming to get Survivor too!).. I've heard of level 8 mesmers that can run Northlands without dying, but I don't understand how that's possible at all! Oh well.. I'm working on it!

Either way, just wanted to point out I like your page and you seem nice, woop woop! (Also wasn't sure if you wanted new content at the top or bottom, so I went for top 'cause that's how I'd like it! Feel free to move!) Jackie User JackieDiJackJack Heart.gif 22:18, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

You're welcome ! I don't get a lot of comments on my main page, so thank you for your message ;)
Level 9 is awesome ! E/Me is an interesting choice which can prove to be really good when you start farming hamnet, but indeed at lvl9 charrs may not be easy to kill.
Do you have the fire imp ? (use the /bonus command in chat to get the summoning stone if it's unlocked on your account). This little guy can really turn the tide in a battle. If possible, try also to get the headgear from Yakkington and a Rune of Minor Fire Magic to use on it (the combo will grant +2 in Fire Magic attribute => more damage with Fire Storm and Flare). These are tow ways to get more Fire power, but you may already know about it...
If looking for survivor, there really is no shame being a coward. However since you're looking to go out of pre-searing anyway you shouldn't fear dying too much, as you can get the title more easily later (with vaettirs for example).
At lvl9 with most quests done (you've already chosen your secondary) and survivor, I'd say the best way to get to lvl10 for you should be farming Oakhearts in the Northlands. Or finding someone to Powerlvl you up at the charrs (faster).
If farming your oakheart salad on your own and you want to have one or two charr steaks with it :
  • use walls at all costs and focus on melee charrs, since other charrs will try to attack you while you are protected by the wall.
  • Spam Ether Feast for heal (these will be enough to counter any Banish/Energy Flame and other skills that can hit you even with wall) and fire storm for damage when the charrs have stopped moving. Melee charrs will almost always use Frenzy, so they will go down quite quickly no matter how good and fast their healers may be. This strategy is a bit slow and risky, but it's high xp rewarding.
  • You can also aim for the bosses directly (if coming from the right you can take one or two down without aggroing the patrolling groups, but that requires some skills in pulling without overaggro and a good fire power). Ben Wolfson can tank a bit if you can still recruit him.
Good Luck and see you in game ! :)--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 07:49, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the tips! I do have the fire imp and it's a huge help really. It can tank a surprising amount of damage before dying too! I've got my boyfriend with me in pre-searing so we try to farm Oakhearts when we can, and I also aim at reaching level 10 ASAP so I can start farming Vanguard Quests. Generally I try to be careful but if I do end up dying I'll just attempt the title again later when out of pre-searing :) Jackie User JackieDiJackJack Heart.gif 11:28, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Talk page usage[edit]

Hey Ruine,

Just an FYI about this talk page. It's supposed to be the main way in which other users of the wiki contact you, and it's not meant to be heavily re-edited. Each time your talk page is edited, it's a flag to the community that a conversation is going on.

I'd like to suggest moving your project to its own special page, such as User:Ruine Eternelle/Borderless Cartography Made Easy. That way you'll have a place to do the edits, while others will be able to comment and give you feedback directly on the corresponding talk page: User talk:Ruine Eternelle/Borderless Cartography Made Easy.

The other advantage of moving your ongoing work to a new location is that you can transclude it onto your user page. Assuming you use the names I suggest above, you can put the code {{User:Ruine Eternelle/Borderless Cartography Made Easy}} onto your user page, and it will automatically show your updates. You'll then have a clean page all for yourself to edit, with its own talk page that people can comment on, and your updates will appear on your main page as you go.

If this didn't make much sense, blame me. But if you're curious about what I mean, I can easily demo it for you. G R E E N E R 20:29, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi Greener, and thanks for coming on my talk page ! You have been quite clear about it and it's true the mod should have its own page, so I just did as you said. Sorry for the wikinoob, hopefully there should be less spam on the Recent Changes page from now on. Best regards--Ruine Eternelle (talk) 14:06, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
No need to apologize for learning! If you're able to make Texmod work like you do, then you're far better at coding than I'll ever be. Keep up the good work! G R E E N E R 16:31, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
You should thank God Of Fissures, since he gave me the project. Everything was almost already done.

Removing item drop locations[edit]

Hey Ruine, just letting you know about a common pain in data gathering. There's no good way to prove a negative, unless you're studying Math. You may never have received that item, nor your friends, nor your guildmates, but someone may have in the past.

If you've checked and double-checked your sources (such as the talk page, other websites, etc.), then removing it with a note like you did is fine; just be extra sure in these cases. Thanks! G R E E N E R 18:40, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

I understand your point of view Greener. I double-checked my sources : in that case 1) This would be the first time that a weapon exclusively drop from two distinct dungeon chests (while not dropping from zaishen chest !) and above all 2) It doesn't fit the drop research.
This wiki aims to be as precise and true as possible. Let's not claim something unsure like this. If this weapon drops from destroyer chest, we need a screenshot or testimonies from several different players to be able to tell that it is true.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 19:38, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Yep, so long as you've done your due diligence, I'm happy. G R E E N E R 22:49, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Abuse Filter[edit]

Hey, if you were wondering about why the abuse filter kicked in while you were editing Power leveling, it was because you only put a single word into the edit summary. This is a typical modus operandi for spambots, so when you're on your IP, either put nothing or more than one word into the summary.

I hope you didn't lose your text. If you did, I can recover it and paste it below. G R E E N E R 06:04, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Np, I switched computers and could do it anyway ;) but i'll remember that note about edit summary.-- 09:23, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Remnants of a discussion about LSoA with Dmitri on Joe Kimmes' page[edit]

moved from Feedback talk:Joe Kimmes

Like I said, even a tiny boost like 2000xp for daily vanguard quests would already halve the maximum required time to get the title. 5000xp would be amazing but so far, for all people reading this page and taking part in the race toward r2+, please don't give us false expectations--Ruine Eternelle (talk) 19:58, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

No wonder all of us have their own expectations, though two vital questions are: when and how it's going to be realized? In the history of this game's development, there had been dozens of perfectly-justified & well-thought ideas which were implemented with about 3 years delay. :) So what I'm discussing here with the other contributors is my personal point of view based on the past experience and doesn't represent an empowered, official standpoint which can exclusively be delivered by ArenaNet's Community Team. On the other side, within my own answers, I'm always trying to attain the full picture around a certain concept with the purpose to establish an effective waymark which Joe could direct his work upon. The distribution of priorities and how I personally select those for own suggestions is another topic, though the pattern is rather easy to recognize, being the amount of users which particular improvement has an impact on. Dmitri Fatkin (talk) 11:54, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for giving my ideas more weight :) --Ruine Eternelle (talk) 13:36, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
Any time, though I'd appreciate if you didn't cut your own answers so heavily as you did the last time, as I personally have found "the altering of 1 Vanguard quest a day limitation" you proposed for level 20 characters being the most efficient for the implementation of this Legendary Survivor of Ascalon pre-Searing improvement. Dmitri Fatkin (talk) 21:43, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

I often delete what i write since it is not right-to-the-point enough. But you're right Dmitri and I have removed that last idea a bit too quickly : removing the daily limit for vanguard quest is another way to help people getting Legendary Survivor of Ascalon. With this setting one could get the title in ~250hours. However, I've got two concerns about the update: 1) Why bring something to pre-searing and not to post-searing, specifically not to pvp which is currently dying? 2) This is now the time for gw2 (especially since HoT beta just started) so even if coding is quick and you can make some money out of it, this might sound like a loss of time.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 18:59, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

I assume there could be certain grounds behind such worries, since according to Stéphane Lo Presti's post which was made on the 20th of April at the Guild Wars Facebook page, the Guild Wars Live Team is currently focused on releasing periodical maintenance and content patches centered around resolving common playability issues. It signifies that the existing features can be tweaked while the larger projects such as the addition of new quests, areas, global changes to the game mechanics or development of wide-scale world expansions are not deemed as possible due to time and manning limitations of the appointed staff. Dmitri Fatkin (talk) 17:58, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
(What about 10th anniversary ? Wasn't it new content ? And also, can this be considered new content ? This is about making an already existing title more accessible, not adding any extra stuff like skins or exotic items...)
I fully understand that the Guild Wars team don't have enough time to work on big projects around gw1 ; they have bigger things to work on. But if they have a moment to give to add one of the two small changes above (removing daily limit or increasing daily reward for lvl20), this could make the community much more active.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 18:59, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

First act of vandalism on my page !!! Woot :D[edit]

Let's pop some champagne Krytan Brandy.png, we need to celebrate !

On a side note, I was wondering why it took so long for that.

And btw I'm also a bit disappointed. It could have been something more trash or sophisticated, not that plain gay and loser thing, but well... what was I expecting from a vandal ?--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 11:26, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

The wiki's been around too long; the good ones have all died off. Heck, I wasn't even around for the best-of-the-best. G R E E N E R 14:25, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
It was only glamorous back then. In hindsight all the memes seem so silly now that they've been old for years. Like making doge jokes all again. --DANDY ^_^ -- 19:16, 1 August 2015 (UTC)



Says the guy who stalks recent changes to troll the 3 active users on GWW for several days straight. God, go ply LoL or HS or something. --DANDY ^_^ -- 11:59, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
I know of some famous group of manly men who actually need people like him. They think of themselves as winners, hate gay and christian people and love to vandalize things. They have a lot in common.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 12:23, 2 August 2015 (UTC)


It's standard to list basic prophecies skills as being available from Ember Light Camp. It's the user's choice where they get the skill from, but removing Ember Light Camp from the list implies that it's not attainable there, which is incorrect. Apparently someone else already reverted it, but I already wrote this, so.. :p --DANDY ^_^ -- 16:21, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

You're right, but I feel that this information is not relevant. I mean, the only way to get to Ember Light Camp without going to LA is to have a tyrian character and refrain from doing the small way from Beacon's Perch to LA while doing the rest of the long run to Thunderhead Keep and do the mission. The situation never occurs.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 16:26, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
Of course it's relevant. The only place to freely buy any randomly selected list of non-elite skill from prophecies is to visit Ember Light Camp. This instead of traveling to Lion's Arch to get one, Henge of Denravi to get another, Yak's Bend to get a third, etc. Of course you've visited these places already, but that doesn't mean it's the most convenient way to buy skills. This wiki listing skill acquisition thoroughly is what taught me that they exist there in the first place. --DANDY ^_^ -- 18:06, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
I think there are a few selected skills that you can buy only from him anyway. Well, you usually will buy from the furthest skill trainer in storyline anyway. That doesn't change a thing to me (yes i'm stubborn).--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 18:25, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Quicksand / SS[edit]

Hey Ruine,

Are you certain that Spiteful triggers twice on attack skills? I never really watched that skill so closely, but it's not noted on that skill's page either. Steve1 (talk) 09:03, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

I'll check that. I was probably wrong with it.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 11:03, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
Edit : indeed, I was wrong. Sorry for all that mess.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 11:23, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
Cool, excellent. Thanks for checking!
No mess, no worries. Steve1 (talk) 07:55, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Fairly sure it triggers twice on Quicksand. SS might not be the same. --DANDY ^_^ -- 10:57, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Summoning Stones[edit]

I assume that IP is you. As you mentioned in your edit notes, there are only 2 stones that are reusable (btw. that is clearly visible in the nav box at the end of the page - so I didn't bother adding it to the page. I dislike redundant information which is redundant), but the Charr stone is the only one which has a usage cost (of 1 skill point). Cheers, Steve1 (talk) 15:35, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Indeed, I don't log in when not on my main computer - out of lazyness mainly. Yeah, the affirmation saying that the igneous is the only summoning stone with infinite uses is false since there's another one. I suggest removing that part, especially since infinte uses is in the page navigation at the foot of the page anyway.-- 17:32, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, agreed. And I added a big brainfart in my edit notes to top it off. Steve1 (talk) 19:14, 28 August 2015 (UTC)


Hi, I recently returned afetr a years long break from Guild Wars/The Wiki, and came back to try and finish what I started: rendering "everything". I was thinking on giving rendering HoM statues a go soon, and since you seem to have a lot of titles/active on Gww I was wondering if I might enter your HoM a few times, and render them (I'll explain my technique later if you want). -- Chicken 1.jpg Magamdy 19:48, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

You're using texmod i suppose ? I can't play anymore today but tomorrow (i.e. in >~10hrs) sure. I don't have everything though.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 19:57, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
Only texmod when my software glitches. And yes tomorrow is fine, somewhere in the afternoon/evening preferably. -- Chicken 1.jpg Magamdy 20:00, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Moving pages[edit]

Hey Ruine. As an FYI, if you're planning on moving a page, please use the Move option rather than creating a new page and asking to delete the old. Guide to Prophecies has a very old history of edits, and we do strive to maintain them. I'm racing out the door, but I'm going to tag the page with at least a redirect. G R E E N E R 17:48, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Sorry Greener, but I felt that that page deserved better: it is the most important page for beginners, and therefore the most important page of this wiki to me, that's why I enlarged it to cover the three tutorial areas without warning anyone. I promise, I won't move such a big thing without asking for your guidance in the future. --Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 17:52, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
Oh, no, I think you misinterpreted what I meant. If I delete the page, then the history of that page is gone (if anyone other than an admin wanted to get what used to be there, they couldn't). A "move" maintains the history, that's all. No need to ask for my permission. G R E E N E R 19:17, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
Oh, I see what you mean. Well, it's up to you. I haven't checked the history so I do'nt know if any important thing might be still somewhere.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 19:28, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

"I didn't know creating this page would cause so much reactions."[edit]

This is one of the oddities of life. Some actions create a tsunami, while others create not but a ripple; and no one can truly predict which will happen. Since there's no solid tie between actions and reactions when creating a new idea/article on this wiki, don't let it bother you. Just do it, and work with others as the situation calls for it, like you've been doing. G R E E N E R 16:21, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Equivalent energy regeneration[edit]

Attribute rank 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
Energy cost 100% 96% 92% 88% 84% 80% 76% 72% 68% 64% 60% 56% 52% 48% 44% 40% 36% 32% 28% 24% 20%
Base cost 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Base cost 5 5 5 5 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 1 1 1
Base cost 10 10 10 9 9 8 8 8 7 7 6 6 6 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 2 2
Base cost 15 15 14 14 13 13 12 11 11 10 10 9 8 8 7 7 6 5 5 4 4 3
Base cost 25 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5
Maximum equivalent energy regeneration (expertise) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 4 5 6 7 9 12
Maximum equivalent energy regeneration (mysticism) 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 12 16
Maximum every 15 seconds
Equivalent maximum energy regeneration

Hey Ruine,

I see what you're trying to do, but I find that info a tad bit misleading. Take Mysticism: In order to get your calculated EER, the derv would have to cast derv enchantments non-stop (I assume). Which isn't exactly very realistic.

Take the ranger: Sometimes rangers just use auto-attack (e. g. to spread poison in GvG) or use a skill with cast time (e. g. preparations or spirits). Can't have either one in your calculations I guess.

I don't know how Soul Reaping is implemented, but if ANet took the easy route, than they have up to 3 timers counting down from 15 secs. And any kills while all 3 timers are running won't trigger SR. If that's how it is, you'd need to get a kill the exact frame one timer runs out in order to get the full EER. Unlikely, even in PvE w/ minionmancers.

Cheers, Steve1 (talk) 17:42, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

My first thought was that a ranger with 50% reduction in energy cost of its skills is actually having twice as much energy (and twice as much energy regeneration)- the energy has actually more value than the energy of a 0 expertise ranger. I had quite a headache thinking about it, but I finally figured out the formula : EER=Natural Energy regeneration*((100/energy reduction in %)-1).
However you are entirely right, the equivalent energy regeneration only works spamming the adequate skills with no casting time non-stop (for mysticism/expertise) and having at least 3 deaths/15s (soul reaping). Even if the maximum is rarely reached (especially for high investments), the result still emphasizes pretty well the power of certains builds, mainly ranger dagger spammers, touch rangers, trappers, spirit spammers rangers, minion masters and dervishes with fast recharging enchantments. Not couting offensive teambuilds with necroes everywhere. The passive energy management from the primary profession being a key for bar compression (among other things), I believe that this is still a good tool to compare the professions together ? Now it indeed is limited, only a few special settings will benefit from that huge energy management (need tons of fleshy foes for MMs, touch/ranger/attack/spirit skills for rangers, and feeder/teardown skills for dervishes). Anyway, I put that here as a bolt idea, to see what people will say of it. Do you think I should add "maximum" ?
It's true that a dervish is very unlikely to be using only enchantments, especially since flash enchantments mutually disable themselves. However a Pious Renewal dervish will. And usually half of the time you will be casting enchantments so you can consider that you have half the stated EER. Probably a bit more since teardowns (signets, adrenaline, 5 energy skills) are usually cheaper than feeders (10 energy enchantments), so perhaps up to 75% of the stated EER unless using expensive PvE-only skills (such as Pain Inverter, EBSoH).
Expertise rangers may only auto-attack, but I don't think they won't use any attack skill at all if they can use one. Unless having high recharge skills. And using high energy skills (Magebane Shot, Burning Arrow , Crippling Shot, Savage Shot, Pin Down, Penetrating Attack and Sundering Attack, Concussion Shot...) will allow you to regenerate energy while auto-attacking. To be honest, I don't really know of PvP whereabouts but to me, fighting with full energy is a waste most of the time since that energy could be used to better purposes.
Three timers on Soul Reaping is already 30-45 energy. Plus they are usually not all 3 up together (unless your minions got wiped), you will generally have one or two up, since the oldest one will expire before any new one starts. It's not easy to estimate this, but the results show that Soul Reaping is still a broken mechanism.
To get deeper into the question, one should take into account the number of the skills affected, the average cost of these skills, their average casting and recharge time (including disabling from flash enchantment spells) and the overall utility they have (which is rather hard to estimate with numbers) for mysticism/expertise , and the average frequency of deaths when killing foes in PvE for Soul Reaping. And I probably overlook a lot of other things.-- 18:28, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
I don't think it's a useful way to view this type of energy management. Unlike energy gain sources, cost reductions do not result in a set gain of energy per time period and it's misleading to present it as such (especially if the amount you're calculating will vary depending on cast times, recharges, amount of affected skills, or other unconsidered factors). Energy management as a whole can be summed up as Net Energy = (Gained Energy - Spent Energy) / Time, and your addition kind of confuses matters by shoving expertise/mysticism's effects into the gained energy part of the equation (which would require calculating it's EER per build) instead of modifying the spent energy, which is a much easier way to determine its effect on a given build's energy management. Toraen - talk 18:51, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
Another interesting thing to point is that this form of energy management is unstrippable and cannot be rupted (it can only be nullified by two or three skills) unlike most forms of energy management, makes you lose no momentum casting an energy management skill during a fight. Sparing 5 energy is for me pretty much the same as gaining 5 energy,since you're gonna use that energy for another skill. Well, if both of you think of it that way I'll remove that info. Unless you see a better way to explain what I mean. I'm just some french random guy who can do one or two calculation, certainly not a native english writer nor a very skilled mathematician.-- 19:03, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
We could use this debate as an opportunity to update/cleapup the three Energy management articles:
Its always easier/cheaper to conserve energy then generating more energy; just ask my electric bill. ^_^ --Falconeye (talk) 06:32, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
Not relying on skills for energy management is generally a good idea, even though it means having to spend attribute points in a line from which you may not use any skills (for example a spirit spammer ranger won't use any expertise skill, and dagger spammer rangers may not use any too). In my view, skills>armor>weapons in this game. If you can free even one skill slot, you can increase your skill bar efficiency by ~14% (if each skill has the same utility weight in your skill bar, 8/7=14%) and your overall efficiency by 10% (this is an estimation but you catch what I mean : the impact of a change in skill bar and attributes is usually stronger than a change in your armor or weapon)-- 08:08, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

(Reset indent) @Falconeye, separating energy management in three sections "primary attribute"/"user skills"/"allied skills" (battery)/"Zealous weapon" sounds like a good start. Edit : this is (almost) already the case, which is good. But I'd see another separation in user skills in three subsections "little to no investment skills" (such as channeling, Glyph of Lesser Energy)/"primary attribute investment skills"(such as Ether Renewal, Signet of Lost Souls, Warrior's Endurance to only quote those)/"non-primary attribute investment skills" (such as Mind Blast, Castigation Signet). And maybe a 4th section "narrrow conditions skills" (for example, Blessed Signet and Melandru's Resilience). Probably redivide into range/melee (if your caster has a melee energy management skill, soemthing is wrong).-- 09:11, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Actually energy management can also be separated in attack/casting/any/other for energy management skills. The melee section could hold attack skills providing energy, expertise, critical strikes, Warrior's Endurance-like skills and zealous weapons, while the casting part could hold glyph of lesser energy, channeling, blessed signet. Any would hold Leader's Zeal whiel others would hold Melandru's Resilience.
If you help make these tables better with your ideas, then please do so! ^_^ --Falconeye (talk) 18:34, 19 October 2015 (UTC)


Your edit on Sword makes no sense to me. When I search for sword I want a list of ALL swords, not all models. Hell, some models are shared by 5-6 weapons (not necessarily swords). You'd mean that I could only ever find one of those, which one is up to the edditors fancy, unless I specifically searched for it? When you make such a big edit at least discuss it. -- Chicken 1.jpg Magamdy 09:45, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Undo this if you feel like I've stabbed you in the back. Still, most players would prefer a list of all weapon skins, knowing which one they can get and use or not. You can still do a similar work to the one I've done on the shield page. -- 15:22, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
It's not about me feeling stabbed in the back, it's about you unleashing mutilations of these pages due to your own convictions. " Still, most players would prefer a list of all weapon skins", "this is an article about sword skins, only one of them is required". Please do point me to proof of these statements, this is just how YOU'd like it, not how it should be. Your idea on the shield page is good in principle, however it's execution I find poor. Starting with the " Models" headline, which can be confusing from the get-go. Secondly, there's no clear definition between "models" and individual swords, leading to more confusion.
And like I said earlier, any favoring of one weapon over others with the same skin is inherently flawed and impossible to solve except for listing them all on one line with slashes between them. Which is again problematic because the same skins drop across different campaigns.
What I suggest is restoring the way the pages were and either adding a skin breakdown section at the bottom, or on a subpage. Thay way you have the best of both worlds, as the current system is severely lacking. -- Chicken 1.jpg Magamdy
Hello Ruine, my 2 cents:
1) You updating the classifications is really appreciated. For example, Icy Dragon Sword was categorized wrongly. That's really nice!
2) I'm not too hot about having very similar large tables like now on the sword page. Wouldn't it be possible to reduce it back to one table? What's the use of 2 tables here?
3) Getting rid of randomly selected skins is a rather arbitrary (and thus bad) thing. Who decides which skin is the "master skin"?
3b) One could visualize how the skins are the same by adding them all like that: sword a/b-sword/scimitar C/broadsword D. But then what happens if A and C are core whereas B is nightfall and D is prophecies?
4) So my suggestion would be: List all skins (like it used to be), correct the categories. And if you really want to visualize same skins add a little table below where that's being listed.
Cheers, Steve1 (talk) 17:35, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
Hello everyone ! With all these reactions I don't even know why I started all of this :s . While it's true I lost info in the process (some names disappeared, and several skins lost their drop campaign(s) for the more general core), I cannot find a good way to categorize things. For example, Signet Shield can be found in EoTN, while Shield of Purity (same skin) is part of beyond and factions, leaving the question of the skin being core or not. I could add some kind of indent with all available names but - as Steve pointed it in his 3) - what would be the master skin ? Should it be the historical one, the storyline one, the easiest to get or the one with the highest number of different requirements ? Otherwise one can still use a lot of small numbers in order to specify things a bit more, and perhaps lines for the available requirements in case of several requirements. And I might overlook other things. There are 4 parameters : skin, name, requirements, campaign. I can find at least one exemple of shields having everything in common but one of these parameters. Difficult to have all these in one single table...
@Magamdy : as someone working on model renders, I think you actually understand why I'm trying to categorize weapons by skin. The skin means much more than the name, since it's the only thing people can see in game (unless you wanna ping your weapon set, of course). Of course requirements and maximum armor rating (for wintergreen shield, for example) are even more important, but people will look for skin most of the time, especially when trying to get caster weapons.-- 07:41, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
I'm not against you categorizing weapon models, Im against you replacing the existing system of individual weapons with it. Since that seems solved, I'm a-ok. In the case of different weapons with the same skin, I'd just list them alphabetically. I.e. Gladius/Rinblade/Short Sword/Starter Sword. Starter Sword for example is from all campaigns, so maybe you'd have to create a "Multiple Campaigns" category, or work with color codes etc. Also, maybe it's possible to incorporate unique's based of a certain skin in the table too, as that's something that's kinda lacking right now on the wiki.

A tutorial on Advanced techniques for cartography (how to break out of the map in GW)[edit]

Break out of the map eh. I'm listening ;)
User Magamdy The wilds carto.jpg
This is the spot that I uncovered btw using that Necrotic Traversal thing before it was patched. Chicken 1.jpg Magamdy 13:50, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

I have been looking for that part for years ! :D I love you <3. I will add that one to the mod as soon as I have time ! About the tutorial, sadly I don't have a video pre-patch, so I will probably just say a word or two about it but no video.
The two main ways for breaking out of the map are Minion trick (which is still not so well-known but very cool) and portal jump (with SaO chains being the most easy and efficient way to break out of the map since you can do it at almost all portals in the game). Aside from these two techniques, there are a few circumstances where one can break out of the map, but they are quite rare : dzagonur bastion's south gate, the portal from silverwoods to Ettin's Back (I heard that the portal doesn't cover all the ground and you can walk around it)... Also sometimes during cutscenes your character is actually already breaking out of the map : moving will cause you to uncover some slivers of the map, but sadly there is no way to explore.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 10:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
Ah that's what you meant. I thought you could go further and glitch the game to make you walk through walls etc. Guess I shouldn't have let my carto-nerd-feelings get my hopes up ;(~- Chicken 1.jpg Magamdy 10:32, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
Yes, don't misunderstand. What I meant by breaking out of a map is going to normally unexplorable areas, with flaws in level design --Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 10:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
Needs moar haxx -- Chicken 1.jpg Magamdy 11:23, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

Did he get that from you?[edit]

Hey Ruine,

Did FE copy this ( from you? I asked him some stuff about it on his user page, but maybe I should rather ask you? I do feel like I vaguely recall that we hed been taking about something similar like that in the past. But I don't really remember. Steve1 (talk) 15:21, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

You have got a good memory of things. It indeed seems like the job I did on my main page.
As the one who had the idea to convert primary attribute passive enrgy management into energy regen (in the case of soul reaping, expertise, mysticim), I wanted to point out the fact that this kind of energy management is good because you don't need to waste a skill slot for more energy. It is very true for rangers which usually spam ranger skills/touch skills/attack skills.
However, it doesn't always make sense because 1) dervishes usually won't spam dervish enchantment spells 2) you won't always have 3 death/15s for soul reaping to trigger
To conclude, yes it was probably plain and simple copy/paste from my page, because critical strikes are also missing, though they do provide passive energy management too. Moreover, I made the page and already spoke of mysticism/expertise/soul reaping.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 10:42, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
Would you be willing to explain the math behind your meer calculations? SR is obvious, but Exp and Myst aren't (to me at least).
Steve1 (talk) 22:10, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
If you have 50% energy cost reduction on all your skills, that is basically as if you paid the regular energy cost but with double your regular energy regeneration. That's the idea I followed. I had to figure out the exact formula, but that's about it--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 12:25, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
I don't think that's an accurate assumption. If you rigorously calculate energy savings per skill (take how much energy is saved on each skill divided by how often each is used) you will get a different result. I did a naive calc for the PvP Burning Arrow Ranger, and got about 4 energy/sec saved assuming skills were used as available, with special consideration to Apply Poison since you only need to use it every 26 seconds. The table says that 14 expertise is only 1 additional energy per second (EER = 3). The effects of mysticism & expertise should also be calculated separately from the base energy regeneration of the class. They are different sources of energy.
For another example, a ranger dagger spammer with 13 expertise. Normally, the chain is 15e every ~3 sec (3 second cycle is convenient mathematically: EER is equal to the energy saved in that time period), but with that expertise it's reduced to just 6e/3s. The energy saved is effectively 9 energy regeneration added (counted against the chain's unmodified cost of an effective 15 energy degen). That's way more than the table suggests as the MEER for expertise 13. It can vary a lot depending on the build used, which is why I don't like using Expertise EER to try and figure out if a particular build idea will work (which should be what the advice in an energy management article helps out).
I think the table ultimately just confuses anyone inexperienced with energy management, especially since it attempts to conflate the attribute with the base regen of the class. Falconeye ended up concluding that Expertise/Mysticism were always better than Soul Reaping (ignoring that you can't just interchange them) even though the table didn't really support it (and soul reaping didn't factor a necro's base regen while the others apparently did). Toraen - talk 17:09, 31 March 2016 17:09, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
Interesting numbers, I will see if I made a mistake anywhere. It's true that all this depends on the frequency of use of skills... Well, I will think about it. Did you use a Zealous weapon ?--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 13:26, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

(Reset indent) A zealous weapon is not used in these calculations. The only things calculated are the base energy costs of the skills over time (which is then converted to e-degen) and the energy savings of expertise (then converted to e-regen). Expertise doesn't care if you currently have 3 regen or 10. It will save the same amount of energy. So, taking just 14 Expertise Apply Poison as an example:

  1. Apply Poison is used every 26 seconds (24 sec duration, 2 sec cast time)
  2. Cost per use is 15 energy, so divide 15 by 26 = 0.58 energy / second
  3. 1 pip eregen = 1/3 energy / second, so multiply the previous step by 3 to get its effective energy degen = 1.73 e-degen
  4. Given a value of Expertise, you know how much energy is saved on each cast (14 exp on Apply saves 8 energy). 8e/26s = 0.92 e-regen. Apply Poison is only causing an effective 0.81 e-degen (you get the same result by just calcing off the modified 7e cost). The only reason to do it the first way is if you want to see how much energy Expertise is effectively generating.

For the whole build, just add together all the results for each affected skill. Just from what's saved on Apply Poison, we're already nearly a third of the way to the 3 EER predicted by the table. Expertise is definitely far more effective than TPiY, or no one would bother using it. :P Toraen - talk 15:27, 4 April 2016

Minion trick[edit]

A proposal for moving Minion trick to Gate Glitch is being discussed. --Falconeye (talk) 18:03, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

It doesn't change much. Since you don't need a minion for that, it is fine by me. Gate Crossing would be another good name.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 20:35, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Elemental Flame[edit]

I see you are contemplating running it in a build in due time. I strongly advise that you do. Mirror of Ice, Rust, and Icy Prism are a few of my favourite skills to combine it with. Steam is also a worthy mention, for shutting down melee while it's on fire. The 2012 Elementalist redesign hasn't seen a lot of meta-game, unfortunately. It kicks ass. - Infinite - talk 14:30, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

I noticed the skill not too long ago and I quite liked it but it has many drawbacks. Here are the summary of my thoughts :
  • The biggest drawback is the pathetic duration/recharge ratio of the enchantment. A character needs non-neglictable investment in fire magic for the enchantment (and the burning) to actually last (6 fire magic for 3s burning and 20s duration - full upkeep under GoS and 20% mod, 10 fire magic for 4s burning and 27s duration - full upkeep under GoS or 20% mod) or an elite skill such as GoR but you probably want to keep your elite slot for something better. Whatever you may choose, enchantment removal.
  • The second drawback is the high cost of most elemental hexes, scoring easily 10+ energy. You will need energy management. Best way is to invest in an attribute such as Energy Storage for things such as Aura of Restoration, Glowing Gaze and Glowing Ice. An alternative is Channeling or Eremite's Zeal. Again, you can use an elite skill but you probably want to keep your slot for something better. The good point is that you often get a cover enchantment. Whatever you choose, energy denial.
  • The third drawback is the mandatory investment in Fire Magic, while Fire Magic hexes are few and have low utility. You may need or want another attribute, in addition to Fire and Energy storage, so you will have to spread your attribute points (probably 10 fire-12 another attribute-8energy storage or 10-11-10 or 10-9-9-8 for a four attribute spread) or use an elite skill such as Master of Magic/Signet of Illusions but again you probably want to keep your elite slot for something better. Weakness has more impact and skills aare less effective than they would be at 12 investment.
Now that all drawbacks are quite clear, here are the possible combinations, depending on the magic school:
  • Fire : if one does not want to spread attributes, one can still spam Incendiary Bonds and Smoldering Embers on a foe hexed with Mark of Rodgort, with Fire Attunement and Glowing Gaze to get energy back. This makes interesting damage with a constant burning, but that's pretty much all there is to it. Mark of Rodgort + fire damaging spells (or simply wand) can do the same. Glowing Gaze still deserves a mention as a good energy management skill if invested in energy storage.
  • Air : Lightning Strike is one of the shortest recharging elemental hexes, so one could find a build to spam it. As far as elite skills are concerned, Glimmering Mark is a good anti-melee, while Lightning Surge is a knockdown with rather short recharge. Chilling Winds is actually a Water Magic support. Teinai's Wind is a great interrupt and damage on burning foes.
  • Earth : two of the three hexes have AoE centered on the skill user. Mostly snares, so one can fetch a build with Shockwave (and Crystal Wave ?). Frozen Burst is also AoE snare elemental hex centered on the user, but in Water Magic. Some synergy with water hexes in general with Teinai's Crystals.
  • Water : the premium source of elemental hexes. EF further boosts the damage from Shatterstone (which was already high). There are some interesting elites but the best pick is Mirror of Ice because of its range and low recharge. Rust is great to counter that annoying res signet. Blurred Vision and Steam are great anti-melee for rangers and assassins, since warriors and dervishes will never reach their targets at 66% snare anyway. Icy Prism for damage, definitely. I do not know if one could make a resilient healer out of Frozen Burst+Mist Form, but probably not (use with Earth Magic hexes and magnetic aura/surge ?). Deep Freeze has the largest AoE of all elemental hexes and synergizes well with Maelstrom but 2 skills with 2s casting time would be a bad choice in PvP. All other water magic hexes are mostly single target snares that cost 10 energy for 5s snare... Well, it is funny to freeze foes while burning them.
Good thing is that we have some choice for the elite skill (Mind Blast, Starburst, Savannah Heat) but bad point is that we have bar compression and attribute spread troubles. I can still make several builds out of it, though I am not sure they will be efficient.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 12:49, 15 November 2016 (UTC)


Rangers are very effective in endgame, due to their ability to speedrun endgame content the fastest (I believe the current world record for DoAHMSC is held by a ranger primary, as well as being included in most speed clear teams for extremely high damage output. The only downside is their high investment barrier. Assassins are more forgiving, but are often traded in in favour for a ranger (save for specific tanking rules such as in Shards of Orr, where "Can't Touch This!" must be brought along), and of course Critical Strikes isn't as nice a primary attribute to have when using mostly spells on an assassin anyway. The endgame professions of popular choice are ranger, mesmer, (assassin,) and dervish. I used to burn rangers into the ground, but even I have to acknowledge how awesome they are once they pop a few cons. If you're not convinced yet, do give endgame rangers a decent try. You will not be disappointed! - Infinite - talk 18:53, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

I see your point and I fully agree with the aspects you present. Rangers have indeed several good points with their elemental armor and the powerful expertise (which includes whirling defense). It's true that reaching 19 expertise (with boosts) halves the cost of 5 energy and 10 energy skills compared to 16 expertise, making them even more easy to spam. My note was more for the standard player which will not use cons. --Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 23:09, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
Oh, fair enough. That makes a lot more sense. - Infinite - talk 23:10, 7 October 2017 (UTC)


It was about regaining energy per second in order to recast it on recharge (BM 0..9) or keeping it up all the time (BM9+). No clue what made Exp 4 so special though. Steve1 (talk) 14:34, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Oh so it was the cost. Yes, it can actually be a useful information. Needs a few words here and there.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 17:26, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

How come ...[edit]

... that some of your screenshots are with the German language setting? You're French, and most screens are in French. Just wondering ... (in case you wanna tell). Cheers, Steve1 (talk) 21:05, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

I am french, english is my first foreign language, german my second. I try to keep my level up-to-date by playing in german and english whenever I can ;) --Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 23:16, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

ldoa page updates[edit]

I am glad someone is finally updating that page. Are you planning on doing more updates for it or should I continue to clean it from where you left off Shade the (talk) 04:25, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

I'd say just go ahead when you got the time and feel like it. You two are probably the 2 most experienced pre players left on the wiki. Steve1 (talk) 10:26, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
Go ahead if you want.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 21:01, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

Not meant in a bossy or snarky way ...[edit]

... you're aware of that? Steve1 (talk) 10:27, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

I always do that mistake. I know it is wrong, but in french punctuation there is a space between the word and ":", so I need to be extra careful and often forget. You can see the french ruling on the wiki page quite clearly here. --Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 20:57, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
Oh, I'm well aware of teh stylistic difference. I find it amusing, is all. Steve1 (talk) 08:51, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
Hehe, well french rule makes the ":" a bit more visible.--Ruine User Ruine Eternelle Ruine Eternelle.jpg Eternelle 12:22, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
could you please try to remember it? It“s now necessary to check out all your edits since it seems to be getting worse. Thanks. 18:05, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
The work they have done has been quite substantial and very beneficial, if you find errors on pages that are this small, feel free to fix them. It would take a couple seconds. I do not think it is as big of deal as you are making to. Also do not forget to sign your comments. Shade the (talk) 23:07, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
Since I started that paragraph: I concur with Shade's assessment. Steve1 (talk) 09:05, 27 October 2019 (UTC)