Talk:Over the Limit

Recharges much faster than stated

In this video you can see that it causes skills to recharge much faster than the stated 20%. Possibly it's 20% of the original recharge time? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIsiPfLciJQ&feature=youtu.be Stacia (talk) 13:08, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

My friend who tried this was saying the same, that the recharges seem way too low. Can't test myself yet. --DANDY ^_^ -- 20:03, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Tested it now. I added a bug mention. --DANDY ^_^ -- 21:08, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

That looks broken Ruine Eternelle 22:37, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Fixed Ruine Eternelle 09:21, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Overcast rate

How fast does the overcast build ? - - Ruine Eternelle 00:54, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Not in game atm, but seemed to be about 1 overcast per second. --DANDY ^_^ -- 10:44, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

They should make it 10 overcast every 30 sec, making it a buff for skills which benefit from overcast. ITemplarI (talk) 12:22, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Meteor --Ruine Eternelle 14:05, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Unusual resource cost

To clarify what the previous Trivia note "the only profession skill with an additional resource cost not usually associated with that profession" meant. (I agree I worded it a bit complicated, but I'm not sure how else to describe it in just one sentence.)

Professions only have one (or none) of these additinal resources associated with them. For Ele it's Overcast, for Monk it's Upkeep, for Warrior/Dervish/Paragon it's Adrenaline, and so on. This skill is unique not just because it's a new thing for Ele but also because this is the only skill in the game that doesn't fit into this Profession -> Resource association. Now it's "professions usually have one or none of these additional resources, except for this one outlier on Elementalist". You can see that on List of elementalist skills. The table template assumes that every profession only has one of these resources, which has been correct until yesterday, so now it lists this skill's Upkeep in the Overcast column. 95.90.217.75 09:12, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Oh, now I think I understand. Could we say that it's the only skill with an upkeep cost outside of monk skills? Btw, is it both upkeep energy degen+overcast cost or just overcast? - - Ruine Eternelle 09:21, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps something like "This makes Elementalist the only profession that uses two separate additional resource costs" could work. Both monks and assassins have upkeep so it's not that the upkeep outside of monk is weird - the weird part is that it's upkeep on a profession that already uses a different cost. The same way that a sacrifice skill on warrior would be weird, because warrior already has adrenaline. And yeah, the skill actually has both: it has Upkeep as a real cost that's listed with an icon, and it pulses Overcast to you as an effect. 95.90.217.75 10:16, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Underpowered

Can someone please help me understand how this skill should be used ? - - Ruine Eternelle 19:44, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

It should be used as a +1 skill for your Legendary Skill Hunter tracks 86.25.107.236 04:17, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Does it count now ? That's good to know. Still, I fail to see how to use this skill nor where it has purpose --Ruine Eternelle 09:41, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

It seems like a glorified enchantment version Mantra of Recovery for elementalists. The downsides are its upkeep cost and overcast penalty [which enables certain spell's added overcast-dependent effects]. Probably want to use spells with very long cast and recharge times. Could be fun. --Ulterion1338 (talk) 19:59, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

The issue is that you have a 20s recharge here for only 7s of this enchantment if you don't want to build overcast. Among ele skills, Searing Heat, Churning Earth and Eruption are the only damaging or utility ones with 25 or more recharge that don't bring more overcast. Now either you accept the overcast (which will lead you to wait at various points and makes you lose if the fight drags on). Maybe we need to look at the secondary profession? - - Ruine Eternelle 23:57, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

I don't understand why this skill has to grant any overcast to begin with. Time Ward does nearly the same thing, except it can affect allies and recharges all skills faster, not just spells. It's also affected by Fast Casting, which makes the recharge time much lower than it is. They should atleast drop the overcast component from this skill, or, make it a one time gain when your first cast it, that way it allows you to always have a source of overcast with which to power your spells by way of cancel casting. Soldier198 (talk) 00:23, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

They just shouldn't have fixed the bug on it :) then it would have been balanced.--Ruine Eternelle 07:04, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

better reference to gw2

Nothing incredible, but I wonder why they didn't do it like that : Over The Limit : Stance. 1-5s duration, 20s recharge, Deals 25 chaos damage and inflicts a random condition (burning, bleeding, cracked armor or cripple) to nearby foes every second.--Ruine Eternelle 20:59, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Fix

Spells <DO NOT> cost Overcast, activate 20...44...50% faster, recharge 20...44...50% faster and have 20...44...50% armor penetration. Continuously gain Overcast while active. PvE Skill. End effect: Removes 0...24...30 points of your overcast; you gain 5 health and 1 energy for each point of overcast removed. --Falconeye (talk) 18:55, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

That's a lot of overcast very quickly if spells start costing overcast instead of energy and have reduced recharge. Why would you suggest that? ... - - Ruine Eternelle 23:16, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

So you want to remove the overcast drawback of spells and replace it with a gradual overcast over time and remove a certain amount of overcast when it ends. This would effectively remove overcast as a drawback entirely for the Elementalist. Da Mystic Reaper (talk) 15:21, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Should reduce overcast instead

I saw a suggestion from WoodenPotatoes on twitter that instead of building up Overcast, it should remove Overcast at the same rate. The double upkeep isn't worth a single target Time Warp. Aqua (talk) 01:37, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

It indeed makes much more sense. Especially since they released both skills at the same time and time warp is clearly superior. - - Ruine Eternelle 08:03, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Still looking for help

I'm still struggling with this skill. It got buffed and it's a very good thing, but still has issues. From a practical point already:

• You have to manually dismiss it every now and then. Double click on a specific area every 20s is a big UX issue in my book.
• If you forget then you have to wait for Overcast to disappear.

From a power point:

• The purpose of this skill is to be able to spam powerful skills more often, but you are very restricted:
  • Those skills sometimes have overcast, such as Meteor, Chain Lightning, etc.
  • Those skills sometimes are elites, such as Savannah Heat, Searing Flames, etc.
  • Those skills often have high energy cost, so you need energy management spells such as Glowing Gaze, Shock Arrow, which are weak and take a slot.
• This skill must be used around 1/3 of the time to control the overcast. 50% recharge 1/3 of the time is equivalent to 17,5% recharge reduction on average, a lesser increase in DPS than Glyph of swiftness or Serpent's Quickness.

Here are a few ideas to start, trying to make this skill somewhat decent :

Wooden Potatoes' idea of converting overcast building to removal looks to be the best to solve the issues. - -Ruine Eternelle 18:19, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Honestly, looking at the way this skill is designed, I just don't think it's good. It's just "While you maintain this enchantment, you are a Mesmer except you accumulate Overcast." Barring another change to its functionality where the Overcast is applied whenever you cast a Spell (rather than passively), I'm not really sold on building around it.

Having said that, I think you have it correct that when used optimally, you need strong E-management and ideally good Overcast synergy. One thing where I do think this has unique potential however is in abusing secondary profession skills, maybe like Necrosis? Aqua (talk) 19:16, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Maybe you are right. Which spells though? At the very least not mesmer because of Fast Casting. Necrosis is a skill it doesn't work. - - Ruine Eternelle 21:35, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Edit:actually this skill is completely overshadowed by Assassin's Promise.--Ruine Eternelle 22:34, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

I played a lot of AP Elementalist (back when Discordway was a thing). It was very comfy, and notably didn't require any real build around (I tried a lot of different builds with it). Aqua (talk) 23:12, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

First time contributing to a talk page, so I'm sorry if I stuff anything up. But I thought it may be worth the effort. I don't know how viable it would be, but maybe combining this with something like Unholy Feast and Glyph of Lesser Energy to make a bspike-esque point blank aoe spammer. High energy storage gives you wiggle room if the first couple of Unholy Feast's don't do the job. I imagine something like Demonic Flesh could be included for a bit more threat to adjacent foes. Awaken the Blood would be easily maintainable with this active and useful as a cover enchantment against weaker strips. Could also bring some utility with Strip Enchantment or maybe some synergy with Jaundiced Gaze. Don't really know how well it would fare, but just some ideas I had brewing from looking around to see what other attribute lines this could be used for.

I imagine it would look something like this:

--Elnion (talk) 01:27, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

To build upon this, it even may be worth bringing some energy recovery skills like Aura of Restoration or Elemental Lord. This obviously doesn't make a relatively massive dent in the spells like Unholy Feast or Vampiric Swarm, but allows something like Blood of the Aggressor (or less energy efficient and longer CD, but more spike-y, Vampiric Gaze) to be brought along to help fill in gaps between Unholy Feast/Vampiric Swarm. On top of that its even more self healing, even just from BotA at 12+2, and energy storage at 12+3+1, nets a nice and cool 42+41 (83) lifesteal+healing every ~2.5 seconds or so for only 3 energy. I know killing stuff quickly will always take priority, but its a very nice bonus. --Elnion (talk) 02:33, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Well tried. But why not simply bring Glyph of Renewal at this point? Also I believe primary necromancer are better at this.

--Ruine Eternelle 08:12, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

For this specific instance, Glyph of Energy is good for spamming a single skill absolutely, but I was hoping to explore utilising Over the Limit to its maximum by focusing on bringing a wide array of skills that all benefit from reduced recharge time and either contribute to DPS or in ways other skills just can't compete.

For example:

• Jaundiced Gaze becomes able to reduce its own cost to 1 energy (before accommodating for energy return enchantments), and becomes usable every ~7.5 seconds, as well as making itself (or other enchantments if necessary) instant cast. I can't find any other enchantment stripping skill that matches this performance, as most other skills have either wind-up, conditionals or penalties for stripping if they are even remotely comparable. The only ones that are comparable are the Mesmer strips Drain Enchantment and Shatter Enchantment, stripping slower but providing energy return or damage respectively at an increased cost or activation time.
• I have tried before making a similar if not the same build work around Unholy Feast as you have pointed out, in practice I found that Necromancer just simply struggles, even when utilizing Cultist's Fervor to mitigate and help manage the energy cost, to put out any reasonable damage over an entire fight, with single kills granting enough energy for at most 2 additional uses of Unholy Feast, but struggling to contribute early on in a fight, and petering off even further once Arcane Echo wears off. Hitting their energy/15s limit is also pretty crippling to their DPS output. As I'm sure you're aware, the bar is pretty heftily bloated with skills just to meet a similar threshold as Over the Limit can roughly achieve alone, while also granting the benefit of greatly increasing maximum energy allowing for a much more potent initial spike. On top of this, Arcane Echo faces the same limitations as Glyph of Energy in that it ultimately only benefits a single skill, with worse sustain in rotation than Glyph of Energy but a greater output within its time frame if you can meet the energy demands.
• Being able to utilise Vampiric Swarm alongside Unholy Feast grants a lot of armor ignoring spam to throw out early on in a fight. That being said, I'm not ignorant to the limitation of energy regeneration that ele faces in this build, most likely heavily relying on a BiP or some other battery to keep them chugging.

Regarding your second build, boy would I absolutely love to have a tertiary profession, I'm sure we all would. Even in a direct comparison, Serpent's Quickness is just simply slower regarding DPS output, but would be great for Glyph of Lesser Energy. Requiring Dwarven Stability to maintain permanent uptime (disregarding the fact you're throwing yourself into the middle of the enemy to tag what you can) seems like unnecessary bloat in comparison, which is what Over the Limit is providing, some insane bar compression and a ramp up in DPS output by reducing recharge (and cast time to a much lesser degree) with all the trade offs that brings.

What I would love to explore is other abilities like Jaundiced Gaze, abilities that really thrive in the conditions this elite provides, this build just seems to be a good composition of what seems to be good DPS potential has the potential to output decent DPS*, as well as potentially* bringing interesting and unique utility to the team.

All this considered, I did throw this E/N concept together with the idea of simply outpacing the Overcast. Its not an issue if you're simply blowing every bit of energy you have as quickly as you can to nuke as hard and fast as you can. I feel this approach is much more aggressive and obviously wasteful compared to other approaches with Ele's inherently available attribute lines. In comparison to a fire or air build, this kit is simply armor ignoring, overcoming the biggest hindrance to Ele's damage output that I've seen in any mid-way gameplay (Hell, I was struggling to output decent-ish damage in the last quarter of factions with an Elemental Attunement build). Sure. Its not an Esurge mes. Very few things are even remotely comparable to that though.

As a final thought of this wall of text (sorry), this is probably ideally what the build would end up looking like.

• Trading out Vampiric Swarm for more utility if any pops up if you don't need the ranged DPS
• Optionals instead of Jaundiced Gaze: Strip Enchantment/Blood of the Aggressor depending on damage spike on strip/lack of enchantments.
• Last two slots are for dealing with what will probably be a very hefty drain over the fight. At the moment I'm drawing a blank, so would probably just throw in Aura of Restoration and Elemental Lord in there for now, but better energy management would be better instead of the roughly 13.33% reduction in energy cost for Unholy/Vampiric across the fight.

Would love any insight or feedback on this, I'm sure there's stuff I've missed (Like upon reflection, Demonic Flesh for example is pretty evidently useless when paired with just Unholy Feast, but may have potential elsewhere at a guess). --Elnion (talk) 10:04, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Damn you have a good eye, and I fell in the same trap again xD yes no way to have serpent's quickness. I removed the build.

You are very right about armor troubles for us elementalists. I asked for this skill to grant armor penetration but I'm not even sure if it would be enough.

Now admittedly you cna go and blast a lot of life stealing to deal good spike damage, but if the combat drags on for too long it's bad news. And you have to wait several minutes for the final overcast to wear off... Maybe this can be useful in some areas where groups are spread out, but in most it's needlessly long. --Ruine Eternelle 10:25, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Honestly, it just needs to be for each second you have it up, you need to spend letting it deplete. 1 overcast every 3 seconds. Like meteor but as a resource mechanic for balancing out the good parts of the enchantment. Meaning you can push your luck by keeping it up longer, but you'll have to pay later by letting it dissipate. If overcast was to be kept the same, encourage rapid ability use by giving even a slight energy refund, even just 1-3 or like 15%-33% would be at least usable. One can pray but I'm doubtful it'll be coming around. --Elnion (talk) 11:04, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Redirect

Why delete the OtT redirect for this page? The other ones I made which were subsequently deleted are logical deletions, as they are not popular skills, and hence far less likely to be the subject of abbreviation. I have already seen this skill be abbreviated in game as Ott, and so I think it is valid that we create a redirect for it. Soldier198 (talk) 16:13, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

I used the wrong abbreviation when referring to this skill as OtT. The redirect has been corrected as OtL. Soldier198 (talk) 16:18, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

SH is Savannah heat, many pvpers use it. SF is Shadow Form, and half of all scs use shadow form. But OtL is terribly bad. Unless it gets fixed, or someone finds a miracle combo with it (which is possible but I doubt about it), it's gonna stick with Iron Mist, Verata's Sacrifice and other trash skills among the skills that nobody uses. Why do you bother yourself with a redirect when nobody is gonna use it ?--Ruine Eternelle 16:28, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

It is harmless to have an OtL redirect; it will, at minimum, be beneficial to any player who utilizes the abbreviation in the search bar, saving them a miniscule amount of time. For that reason, I considered it valid to have the redirect. What's further, is that I am witnessing the abbreviation gain popularity in game, as many players in my alliance are now referring to the skill as OtL. Soldier198 (talk) 16:35, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

I don't know if it is that harmless. It looks so, but maybe having more pages may affect search results, search speed, memory. I don't know to be fair, I'm just making assumptions here.

Currently people are looking for info on the skill, talking about it in chat to better understand it, but in a few weeks or months when the hype will be over, this skill will be forgotten by all. Unless like I said earlier it gets fixed or someone finds a miracle combo with it. --Ruine Eternelle 17:08, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Maybe a use

I realize that there might be one saving grace to this skill, and that is maintainable status. As such, it can synergize with Arcane Mimicry (yes you know someone is desperate when he starts mentioning arcane mimicry as a valid strategy).

Under arcane mimicry you can have an ally get 50% recharge on one of its elite skills. It can works also with Signet of Illusions if he is not elementalist. You will however build an insane amount of overcast (80s is 80 overcast), so you will probably have to dismiss it early, and choose an elementalist for that job.

Although at this point you are better off using Quickening Zephyr--Ruine Eternelle 17:26, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

I personally have no judgment on this skill's effectiveness after the buff, namely because I play Elementalist rather infrequently. Prior to it's recharge reduction being improved upon, it was quite obvious that Over the Limit was essentially a lesser Time Ward. That said, players are quite creative, and it would not surprise me if through some evolution of Over the Limit's usage, the skill found a natural home in certain builds, be they related to farming or niche territory.

Moving forward, I think we both agree the overcast generation inherent to this skill is counter-intuitive to it's very design. My logic for this is as follows:

* By virtue of Over the Limit reducing the recharge and cast times of a spell, it is designed to promoting spamming.

* The act of consistent overcast generation limits spamming, especially in instances where one would want to use skills that already have an overcast cost.

To me, an organic solution to this lies in moving the overcast cost to it's initial cast. Doing so would eliminate the burden of constant overcast generation while simultaneously providing for the Elementalist a source with which to gain overcast in the occasions where it is needed. Soldier198 (talk) 18:57, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

This implies making it a non-upkeep ench then? - - Ruine Eternelle 19:55, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Retain the upkeep cost solely in the form of the loss of one pip of energy regeneration, and instead of accruing overcast constantly, the player will gain overcast only when activating Over the Limit. By changing the skill this way, Over the Limit would allow for it's user to gain overcast solely when they need to, by way of reactivating the skill or cancel-casting it, instead of constantly generating overcast to their own detriment. Soldier198 (talk) 20:11, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Feedback

I sent a feedback to Stephane Lo Presti in hope that this skill gets changed. If you want to share your ideas, feel free to look and comment there--Ruine Eternelle 14:10, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Everything list sufficiently summerises everyones opinion. I get what Anet is trying to do; the root problem is "severe drawback while overcast". Adrenaline, sacrifice, upkeep, teardowns... they additional costs with built in proper management mechanics that become fun assets. The last ele update was frankly a half-hearted attempt without overhauling class mechanics. In hindsight, nearly every skill should have received beneficial use of overcast and/or have their drawbacks not trigger while you are overcast to improve their use. Effectively exchanging raw magic reserves for smaller passive effects that pays off dividends. If that was the current reality, then OTL when introduced as is would have been OP mana from the 6 gods. --Falconeye (talk) 18:14, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Yes, there is not enough support for the overcast feature to make it manageable. A skill that could cure overcast along with this would do wonders. Like "Energy Renewal: Spell - Energy Storage - You lose all overcast and gain 1 energy for each point of overcast lost."--Ruine Eternelle 20:12, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

I mean, I have a hard time looking at Overcast and seeing anything but a tedious, annoying to manage penalty for using more powerful spells. The Elementalist update where they renamed it from Exhaustion to Overcast didn't do enough to make it appealing IMO. Aqua (talk) 22:25, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Good thing they decided not to go with "Overdraft", then... Greener (talk) 23:05, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Anet most likely only has a handful of people working on gw1 in the few hours when they are not needed on gw2 or other projects. There is probably not even a single guy for the game balance. We are a bunch of players with a lot of time and ideas and a deep understanding of the game because we played it for thousands of hours. If you have something to ask, you should make a suggestion. It may spare them time and avoid issues. . - - Ruine Eternelle 07:49, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Over the Limit does have to compete with elite skills that provide either superior energy management to allow you to continuously pump out damage or high damage spells themselves. While it does recharge your spells faster allowing you to deal more damage faster it comes at too high of a price energy management wise. You are losing 1 pip of energy regeneration and are continuously generating overcast which effectively locks you out of any other overcast spell. To compensate such a drawback it will have to significantly improve your DPS, be by a damage percentage increase or an increase in your attributes. Another option I have been thinking about is that while you are maininging Over the Limit your spells don't have an aftercast delay (if it's technically possible) so you can chain your spells faster, although that does require you to play a stronger energy management which takes up more slots. A quick and simple fix would be to remove the overcast part of Over the Limit entirely but then the effect really don't live up to it's name since the overcast respresents you going beyond your limit. If you want this spell to fix overcast or make beneficial use of overcast then I would suggest something like an added damage increase for each point of overcast you have accumulated instead of generatiing overcast and when you end Over the Limit you remove an amount of overcast, like 2...24...30 and convert it into energy. Spells cast 15...19...20% faster and recharge 15...43...50% faster. For each point of Overcast spells deal 0...1...1% more damage. End effect: Removes 2...24...30 points of Overcast. Removal effect: gain 1 energy for each point of Overcast removed. I do share the opinion that the Elementalist update was done poorly and that more could have been done with Overcast, if not I wouldn't have made such an extensive skill feedback suggestion as I did for the Elementalist post update, unlike the Dervish. Da Mystic Reaper (talk) 15:41, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Occam's Razor for a possible fix

Add Intensity to every spell cast while Over The Limit is active? Throw out a lot of hard hitting spells faster, all of them get the added AoE effect added, but if you use it too long and often, you end up with too much Overcast. High damage, high risk, high reward. Not very interesting against single targets, which can be taken down with Overcast-synergy spells (giving those a bit more appeal in the process). - Infinite - talk 09:58, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

The interesting thing here, or so it seems to me, is that there are two different ways to improve this skill, corresponding to two different playstyles. Some want to make the overcast easier to manage, while others are fine with this penalty, and want to increase the reward of using it, by increasing damage usually. --Ruine Eternelle 13:13, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Which pretty much shows the problem this skill has, the cost doesn't match the reward. Either reduce the cost or improve the reward is what it boils down to. People just can't seem to agree which direction is the best. Da Mystic Reaper (talk) 14:28, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

OtL should be changed to an enchantment spell that converts all (or even just a percentage of) elemental damage to armor-ignoring.

Let's face it, Elementalists have a hard enough time being relevant in PvE... especially in hard mode. What better way to level the playing field than by changing things around a bit and implementing this idea? Not to mention, OtL's just a removable enchantment, and can be stripped. Thoughts? --Ulterion1338 (talk) 22:14, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Tbh I was thinking this too. An elementalist enchantment that just said "X% of elemental damage from spells is dealt as chaos damage instead" would be the fix the class needed (similar to how Warrior's Seven Weapons Stance addresses one of the big issues with Warrior's design). EDIT: Oh apparently chaos damage does not ignore armor, today I learned... Aqua (talk) 23:02, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Shadow damage does. Ulterion, 40% armor penetration should do the same job, and keep most weaknesses and resistance as they are Ruine Eternelle 23:12, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Solid point, Ruine. Also wanted to add that if they made OtL a general attunement (like elemental attunement, but 30% energy return instead of 50%), it'd allow for some skill compression. So OtL + AoR, and ready to go! --Ulterion1338 (talk) 23:32, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

I have troubles finding the correct explanation to properly describe why it doesn't even have a niche. Elemental attunement + Serpent's Quickness+Dwarven Stability + Glyph of Swiftness provides 50% energy cost and recharge reduction, and +2 attribute >> otl+attunement+elemental lord+glowing skill can't keep if the spell is above 10 energy, you usually need glyph of lesser energy for stuff above. And that's forgetting assassin's promise, air of superiority and Wisdom standard.--Ruine Eternelle 00:28, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Regarding the lacking damage in high-end areas and HM I was thinking something in the line of giving Energy Storage a scaling armor penetration for elemental damage against foes with AR of 80 and higher. Giving it to OtL would be more of a band-aid fix to a fundamental problem the Ele has so I can't say I'm in favor of such an approach. Then again I'm not expecting the Ele to get an update like that so having an elite skill do that would be the third best thing because I would rather see it be on Elemental Lord than on an elite skill like OtL so your elite skill in PvE isn't limited to just OtL. Da Mystic Reaper (talk) 12:23, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Armor penetration from energy storage could be an idea. I do think Eles aren't totally useless in PvE, as they can bring some utility. AoE knockdown is good and burning ignores armor. Wards are great. Ether renewal Emo is still effective as well. Water hexes AoE snare have some use although they are easier ways to deal with melee and the skills are too expensive for their duration and effect. If they halved the cost of some and/or added a slowdown effect on activation time or reduced the recharge speed like they do in gw2 it would be better. Also make it a new condition, "freeze"/"frozen" maybe? It'd fit better lore wise albeit being easier to remove. I think one of the issues with eles and armor-respecting damage in general is the lack of weaknesses in PvE and the lack of impact of the existing weaknesses. Island guardian are "weak" to fire, destroyers are weak to ice... but the weakest of them still has at least 80 AR against that damage type (40% reduction)... Sure you can put cracked armor on your team but that's more conditions just to deal the normal damage against some of the vulnerable caster stuff. -- Ruine Eternelle 13:13, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Years ahead of you on that one, always bothered me that 1-2 conditions were associated with each elemental attribute, but water got shafted with hexes-only. --Falconeye (talk) 18:08, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Ahead of arenanet themselves, you're impressive. - - Ruine Eternelle 22:36, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

I know it has been quite a while since this discussion has been had of how to improve the DPS of the ele in PvE without expecting a big skill overhaul or a mechanic update to Energy Storage so I came up with this fix; Elemental Lord [5|1/4|20] (40/60 seconds). For each rank of Energy Storage, your elemental spells deal +5% more elemental damage. Each time you cast a spell, you gain 1 energy for every 10 ranks of Energy Storage and are healed for 100/300% of the spell's Energy cost.

Putting an armor penetration also benefits enemies in PvE, high-end included which would wreck your party and might break that balance. Putting the damage buff on a PvE only non-elite limits the damage increase to players only, though heroes won't gain that benefit. For such type of chance I saw Elemental Lord as the most suitable skill as it already serves as a damage buff and self-heal which would have its place in many ele builds in PvE regardless. I would like some thoughts on this type of fix for the ele, is the 5% damage increase per rank of Energy Storage too much and would this be an adequite fix for the ele's lacking damage output problem? Da Mystic Reaper (talk) 21:16, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Using zero energy dervish adrenaline spells

Some ideas with using the dervish adrenaline spells.

to make overcast cost irrelevant, and to have them at half recharge time, for free. Zullu (talk)

also a rant, the least they could do is make this an unremovable skill not an enchantment. Zullu (talk)

Idea

Elite Enchantment Spell. While you maintain this enchantment, your elementalist skills gain +1% armor penetration for each point of overcast you currently have (maximum +1...20...25% additional armor penetration). PvE Skill

Over the Limit

• -1
• 5
• 1
• 20

Profession

Elementalist

Attribute

Energy Storage

Type

Elite enchantment spell (PvE-only)

Campaign

Core

Elite Enchantment Spell. While you maintain this enchantment, your elementalist skills gain +1% armor penetration for each point of overcast you currently have (maximum +1...20...25% additional armor penetration). PvE Skill

Progression
Energy Storage Armor penetration %	0 1 1 3 2 4 3 6 4 7 5 9 6 11 7 12 8 14 9 15 10 17 11 19 12 20 13 22 14 23 15 25 16 27 17 28 18 30 19 31 20 33 21 35

Yes no? Plays into the whole idea of overcast being beneficial. Soldier198-2 (talk) 15:46, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Indeed would be a nice change :) Tikka LeFem talk (talk) 19:03, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

This is in addition to its current effects? Da Mystic Reaper (talk) 12:36, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

I envisioned it as replacing the current effects. I also stated in the description that it would grant + armor penetration, meaning it would stack with other sources of armor penetration, such as the innate 25% armor penetration granted to air magic spells. So at a reasonable attribute level, you'd gain an additional 25% armor penetration with your spells, which corresponds roughly to a 40% damage increase I think? The article could probably explain how armor penetration affects damage output better than I can. Soldier198-2 (talk) 00:28, 11 September 2021 (UTC)