Talk:Weapon of Aggression

Initial discussion

Hmm, self target Weapon Spell. Rt/A :D

It's not going to be viable in PvP, but it would be fun to use this, Spirit's Strength and Sight Beyond Sight with a secondary Assassin or a secondary Ranger using some multi-attack skill. Erasculio 01:03, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I think A-Net was thinking along the lines of what Erasculio has proposed above. At 10 energy and requiring frequent refresh, I can't really see this working on the attack class primaries 203.217.0.53 03:36, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Yea obvious compliment to the Spirits Strength based builds out there, especially nice for my RT/A one--Midnight08 08:05, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Channeling though, isn't going to be worth the attribute points most of the time. 220.101.180.184 10:46, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

It's a weapon spell, channeling is known for both its support and damage. Keep in mind it's the only skill in the game that can cast +25% attack speeds on 'other' targets.(Terra Xin 02:28, 22 July 2007 (UTC))

I think you missed the word "you" in the description :) It's a weapon spell that's self-targetable only. It takes 7 channeling to keep it up constantly (excluding cast time here). That really isn't bad for spirit's strength builds, as long as they have the energy. It just means lowering spawning or weapon mastery by 1. It takes quite a bit of energy investment though... skaspaakssa 14:18, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

It would be much more effective if it was moved to Spawning Power, and the gimmickyness of SS builds would prevent it from being too imba. 220.101.180.184 12:30, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good at first but channeling line + quite big energy cost + only self target = not so good. I wish you could cast it on anyone or move it to Spawning.

Super Wander! The new wave! Mgrinshpon 15:37, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

ATM would work only for Spirit's Strength ritus: needs heavy attribute investments in channeling or spawning (the only thing for weapon-users in channeling are the weapon spells, guess what this is), quaffs more than half of your energy regen (no energy for casting anymore, you turn into a warrior) and takes away the possiblity of using weapon spells on yourself (wouldn't if the energy cost wasn't so damn high) Really just drop the energy cost to 5 and add a few seconds to the duration (or move it to spawning so ritus can put more points into it) and this could see use. --84.250.16.99 20:11, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I might move this to spawning, the goal was to make it fun with Spirit Strength. ~Izzy @-'---- 01:47, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I would like the change to Spawning, given how Spirit Strenght requires a heavy investiment on Spawning and on some weapon attribute from a secondary profession. Even using Vital Weapon to make it work costs a few precious attribute points - that's fine given how long Vital Weapon lasts even at low levels of Communing, but this skill (Weapon of Agression) would require a higher investiment (and a higher energy cost). It's a very cool skill, though, and the Spirit Strenght builds are very, very fun. Ritualists look amazing with daggers : D Erasculio 04:53, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

If you move this to Spawning, you might actually make Spirit Strength builds truly viable. Having your weapon spell slot being your IAS at the same time truly helps the bar, and you wouldn't need to recast it very often if you're at say 14 Spawning (which means something like 18-19 sec duration when you consider 28% longer duration). Then you have Spirit Strength, Sight beyond Sight, Weapon of Agression, likely some IMS and 3 attack skills. Can make for a solid melee Rt setup. Might be especially good with the dagger skills you added. Golden Fang Strike seems to fit quite well in a setup like this, and something like Black Mantis/Jagged Strike-GFS-DB could be quite devastating. Will be nice to try out how it works ^^ If it stays in Channeling, well attribute spread will suffer a bit but it might still be somewhat viable. But it would be far, far superior in Spawning as likely no build other than Spirit Strength will ever make use of the skill 24.202.127.119 05:17, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

If this thing could be applied on allies, it would be fantastic, even if it stayed in channeling, and even with a 15 energy cost. I absolutly love to play Rit as a support martial classes character (and I think we do not get varied enough options, like "target ally has X % more chances to critical, X % armour penetration -for a whole duration, I mean-, removes an enchantement with the next attack, knocks down the next time he criticals", etc, but it is another debate). So yeah, if it is supposed to target only yourself, move it to spawning, I really do not see anyone besides Spriti strength rits using it at all, not even sins. 90.33.169.212 05:45, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Agreed that a IAS for other allies would be interesting, if it were appropriately expensive. More interesting than skill that's destined as a one-trick Spirit's Strength pony.--Drekmonger 18:19, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I only see two possible uses for this narrowly designed weapon skill. Warriors and Dervishes can't handle the high energy cost, and plus they have better IAS's. Rangers have something called Rampage as One; nothing can contest with that skill. Paragons have Aggressive Refrain. Leaves us about two professions: Ritualists and Assassins. Ritualists can use this with Sprit's Strength. Pressure Assassins (As in not Shadow Prison) can use this for a constant IAS, but requires heavy investment so they probally won't pick this up. Poorly designed skill that I can only truly see effective in two builds. 75.66.67.12 18:14, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

My opinion is that this skill will be abused in the meta games. I can imagine a Ritualist who will cast Weapon of Quickening on themselves (or Mesmer with Mantra of Recovery) then spam Weapon of Aggression on Spirit Strength Ritualist, Warrior, Assasin, Ranger and Paragon. This will be very overpowered especially on an Assasin who can boost double strike rate and critical hit and strip all enchantments in seconds. Throw in Warmonger's weapon and the team will be insanely buffed. I recommend reducing energy cost to 5 energy and speed boost of attacks to 15%. --Shadetz X 03:13, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

It's self-only. You can't cast it on others. As such, it's hardly abusable. And yes, it can only work with Spirit Strength Rts, but that's not 'one build', that's actually easily a dozen of builds. I actually fear a bit how strong this will make Rt/A, especially now that they will have Golden Fang Strike to have a good DW for their combos. Spirit Strength Rt/As always had pretty insane damage output, but at least they lacked IAS. Will see how it turns out. Patccmoi 17:00, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I hope it stays in Channeling to allow versatility. Currently it is unique in that it allows a class like the Assassin to have access to an IAS without using the Stance or Elite slot. It would also create some goofy MeRi IW builds not possible before for the arenas. --arredondo 01:07, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I hope Izzy moves it to Spawning Power :P. Giving an IAS to Assassins that lasts 10 seconds and only requires 7 attribute points in it, and cannot be stripped? Quite nice for them. A little too nice. Besides, Izzy said that this skill was originally designed to make some more fun for Spirit's Strength. I'm all for that. Moving the skill to Spawning Power would make it much more useful for that purpose, and only viable to Rits. Spawning Power needs some more useful spells anyway, IMO. --Lyr

I'm all for the move to Spawning Power. Sins don't need another way to be amazing, they're quite fine as they are. Plus, Spirit Strength is going to be an insane build anyway. I'm thinking something like...

Spirit's Strength

Sight Beyond Sight

Weapon of Aggression

Golden Fox Strike

Golden Fang Strike

Blades of Steel

[[]]

[[]]

You could easily spec into Deadly Arts and do something like this as well.

Spirit's Strength

Sight Beyond Sight

Weapon of Aggression

Black Mantis Thrust

Golden Fang Strike

Blades of Steel

Dark Prison

[[]]

Gothica 08:41, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking something along the lines of an A/R using this and Locust's Fury to give +50% double strike on top of the +25% IAS. Combining this with the already powerful sin attack skill chains could result in an impressive spike. The resulting sin might end up a little bit fragile, though. (Note: I'm relatively new to the game and quite new to trying to come up with builds, so feel free to point out where I'm wrong. I won't mind.) Thefount 21:28, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Only problem with your build is that both Locust's and Spirit's Strength are Elite skills, e.g. only one can be used per bar. Also, even if they weren't, they are both in the respective class's primary attribute, meaning Spirit's Strenth would last 15s and deal only +5 damage or Locust's would only last 10s. Don't worry though! There are plenty of fantastic synergies left with this Elite! Sec Qr Euin 03:24, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Sec Qr Euin, where did you get Spirit's Strength from? This is Weapon of Aggression's talk page. Also, Thefount, keep in mind that Locust's Fury doesn't affect attack chains. -~=Sparky (talk) 03:34, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

WoA Shadow prison!

Anyone else think this will be going on assassins much more than rits? >.> coughshadowprisonabusecough --Lou-Saydus 17:20, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

If they really wanted +25 % for 10 energy, there would be Tiger's Fury sins all over the place. Similar duration, no activation time. 90.26.191.209 23:34, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

maybe, but this dosnt disable anything. No draw back to this skill. And really 10 or 5 energy is no big deal for the shadow prison build. Not to mention, w/ enough channeling this can be pre-casted before you even spike your target. --Lou-Saydus 21:55, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I think the best option is to move it to Spawning Power and give it a longer duration; say, 5...20 or so. As it stands, it's still a bit too prohibitively expensive on anything other than a Rt/W. - Vermain 21:29, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Definately needs to move to spawning if its sposed to be linked with spirits str at all... Your actually weakening ss builds by not having it there as theyd have to spec into channeling also... And their points are pretty threadbare as is... Vital weapon is still better imo.

Is it even used?

I have seen a number of Spirit's Strength builds out there but I am yet to see even a single person use this. I think the attribute spread this skill forces you into just isn't viable. I don't understand the fear of this skill being too powerful - enchants can be stripped easily, rits have caster armour so they are incredibly vulnerable to attack while using it anyway, self healing makes the build significantly less threatening for damage and the attribute spread is very harsh on the ritualist, probably the most harsh attribute spread I've ever seen. This skill isn't really viable for serious consideration the way it is atm, I don't event think it's worth noting it combines well because it doesn't combine well - sure the skill was designed for Spirit's Strength but too much already needs to be done to pull off the combo without harsh attribute spread and short durations. Don't forget this build has more downtime than most other melee builds due to recasting, on top of all the other drawbacks. You need points in Spawning for Spirit's Strength, you need points in whatever weapon you are using (daggers, sword etc) you need points in usually restoration for your self heal (or shadow arts or tactics) and THEN you need points in Channeling to pull this off at a decent duration. I think you underestimate how quickly these guys go down without a reliable self heal.58.110.141.1 23:48, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

What are you talking about? Any Spirit's Strength Ritualist who knows what he's doing has 75 armor because of Ghost Forge insignias, not regular caster armor. That's more than a real Assassin's regular armor. The attribute spread isn't that bad, either. 11+1+3 Spawning Power means a 60-second duration with +35 damage on Spirit's Strength and 20-second duration on Sight Beyond SIght, then 12 Dagger Mastery, and 6+1 Communing for Vital Weapon, yielding about a 24-second duration because of the Spawning Power boost. Throw in Zealous daggers and your energy problems are solved. Even if you wanted to run WoA, put the 6+1 in Channeling instead of Communing and you get a decent duration, granted more energy cost. Although most professional Spirit's Strength Ritualists run Vital Weapon because of a longer duration and >100+ Health boost. WTF are you talking about with "harsh attribute spread"? It all works out perfectly.

Or you could use 11 dagger and get an over permanent weapon spell. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 00:49, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

You forget 'bout Spawnin Power, it longers the duration. That means you can go 11+1+3 Spawning Power 6+1 Channeling Magic and 12 in weapon of choice. I personaly work on a Zealous Scythe build.

It is a bad attribute spread when you consider the duration of WoA. If it were in Spawning, not only would it be boosted by more spawning weapon spell bonus but instead of a low 7 points for a single skill, you could benefit from a very much longer base duration. The biggest problem with the build is the downtime you spend setting all the enchants and weapon spell up, unlike a stance.The counters to Spirit's Strength builds are incredibly easy, all the melee counters plus enchantment removal as well as lower armour than normal melee, not to mention no access to a self heal without further screwing with attribute points. I wish this would be abused by sins, then it would be moved to spawning where it should be. 122.104.165.13 17:15, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

lol I just love how people wish all skills into destruction.. even the slightest versatility and it's, "ZOMFG-BBQ-NERF-IT-K-THNX-BYE!" --Warren G 02:35, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

warrior's endurance is a skill nao...

should the thing about the synergy with warriors endurance be taken off because nao u can use WE with stances and stuff.

Yea. Why doesn't Izzy nerf WoA into oblivion for sins?! Make them useless!! I'm just too lazy to deal with their decimal shift in dps (I could easily squash sins, but I'm too nubby to deal with it and would rather see it along with a whole lot more skills get nerfed until there's no usage left for it) lolz-omg-bbq-nerf-it-k-thnx-bye! NEEEEERF IIIIIIT!!!!! NERF! NERF! NERF! *bark* NERF! lol Make them QQ sum moar! >:O MOAR! MOAR!! MOAR!!! The more nerfage, the better! >:D Swing batta batta batta SWIIING! Swing that nerfbat, Izzy!!! roflcoptersomgNERFITkthnx Change it to:

Weapon of Aggression Weapon Spell. For 0...69...420 seconds, you attack -50% faster, cleanses foes within earshot of all conditions and hexes and boosts all their attributes for 60 minutes. You and any allies within earshot explode and all ressurection attempts fail. 0 10 0.25 ¼ 10 --Warren G 02:30, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

lol I'd make something like 0 mana 0 cast 0 rec You are invincible mow! You are an unstoppable sin now! Hey go and pwnz them all! But first of all, sacrific all of your life! Yay!!!!!

target = self

Not owning a rit myself i can test to double check, but... If the other two skills given in the last revert as reasons specify as target "ally" (and by the wording, i would guess "other ally" to be true), and this skill appears to use as target "caster", shouldn't "target = self" still apply for this particular case?--Fighterdoken 20:18, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

If you cast a spell like Smite Condition on yourself while under Zealot's fire, it triggers, if you cast Weapon of Aggression, it does not, so you aren't "targeting" yourself. Misery 20:22, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Any other "skill-type = weapon spell" that allows "target = ally" and can be used for comparison purposes?--Fighterdoken 21:40, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Yep, Ghostly Weapon will trigger ZF, people used that a lot in dervsmite. Misery 21:43, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

For further comparison, Divine Boon is target self, it will also trigger ZF, Weapon of Aggression is something different. The wording difference is "you", but I would consider it to have no target because it doesn't trigger any when "target" blah blah blah. Misery 21:44, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

The skill may be behaving anomalously as it's the only selftargeting weapons spell, added in EotN. But clearly the target is self: this easily visible in the effect monitor. Backsword 21:49, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Except there are other skills that happen at location "self" that are not "target self". Examples include stances, Shield Bash, Wielder's Remedy. Do you want to say that they are all anomalous? Misery 21:51, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I haven't tested those specific interactions, but I now some of that is wrong. Eg Shield Bash is not location slef, you can activate it, it will be placed on you, and you can then move, even shadow step far of, and it will still be on you. Backsword 21:56, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but it won't trigger Zealot's Fire, so it never "targeted" you. It applies a buff to you I agree, but it never "targets" you, a "target" event is a unique event similar to an "attack". It's like how despite Illusionary Weaponry attacking by any reasonably definition of the word, it neither hits nor misses. We have to be pretty careful with nomenclature or we will be implying that it does. Zealot's Fire says very clearly that any skill that targets an ally will trigger it. You are an ally, any spell that targets you will trigger it. We have to be consistent with in game definitions even if they are bad such as Frenzy making you attack 33% faster actually reduces attack interval by 33% making you "attack 50% faster" if you follow the actual defintions in English. Misery 22:02, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Have you tested ZF with other target=self skills? Because I don't see how this could target anything but slef. Every skill needs coordinates. Backsword 22:21, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, Divine Boon WILL trigger ZF, Wielder's Remedy will NOT. You tell me what is different between those two skills. It has to be the targetting parameters. I would argue that skills that never trigger ZF have NO target. Misery 22:31, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Battle Rage

I've tried this with my favourite warrior skill Battle Rage, as i always have the energy with all adren attack skills using this before battle rage is quite effective. Alekan Vimrick 09:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

When I see this skill, I think it's like

Pain or Bloodsong, spirits which just toss out low damage but for seemingly forever. This makes you like them, but with a faster attack speed... so you can wand the crap out of stuff. Not that it will really make any difference though. I'd rather the skill be like some insane wanding skill - "target's wand/staff attacks are ___ faster for ___ seconds." though it's a weapon spell which limits it's usefulness. Previously Unsigned 00:05, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Paragon IaS

Nice skill for a Paragon in the current flux, with the recent change to Leadership making the energy cost perfectly managable for a Paragon even in the 4-man arenas. With only 4 points in Channeling Magic - that's only 2 (i.e. your leftover points from your main attribs) + 2 (from the Flux) it'll still last a decent length of time (8 seconds), on a 10 second recharge for near perma-IaS, and by dropping one of your main attribs by a point, you could probably make it last for 10 seconds for a round the clock 25% IaS, without that horrible -20AL Aggressive Refrain or Soldier's Fury give you. This skill has several other advantages over your other alternatives then too, which are.

Frenzy: A full 33% instead of 25%. Good but requires a cancel stance (at least it can be cancelled, unlike the Paragon's own IaS though), taking two slots on your bar. Suppose it gives you an excuse to fit a self-defense stance on your bar though at least.

Aggressive Refrain/Soldier's Fury: Takes two slots on your bar, one to maintain Agg. Refrain/to power Soldier's Fury. The skills you'd use for such things typically underperform equivalent skills you could bring. These IaS skills also have a horrible -20AL reduction turning you into a squishie (very bad news for a Paragon due to a lack of practical self-defense skills, they need their AL). Aggressive Refrain is also phenominally expensive and a pain to put back up after dying if you still want energy for other skills, and Soldier's Fury also takes your elite slot.

Flurry: A full 33%, but lowers your attack damage so may aswell be 25% and is a nuisance to spam due to it's short length. Most of the time this would be your best option prior to the flux however, as it only requires a single slot and no attribute investment.

Heket's Rampage+Tiger's Fury/Bestial Fury: One of these stops you using your attack skills, something you should be doing as a Paragon. The other stops you using your support skills, once again, another thing you should be doing as a Paragon. They also require a modest attribute investment in a line you won't use for anything else to have a decent amount of up-time.

Soldier's Stance: A full 33%, but requires a second skill slot to power it and a modest attribute investment for full up-time. At least as a Paragon you have other uses for the Tactics line, including a Shield req. alternative to Command/Motivation. But it is an Elite, however.

Onslaught: It's very good (as in overpowered good, compare it to Soldier's Fury above to see why). But it's an Elite, requires a heavy attribute investment, and is in a line you are unlikely to use for much of anything else as a Paragon.

I'll definetly miss Weapon of Aggression on my Paragon when the flux ends. Near-permanent/permanent +25% IaS, one skill slot only, non-elite, no drawbacks (other than weapon spells being non-stackable, not a biggy in PvP). Unlike the list above *sighs*.82.11.226.30 16:12, 27 November 2011 (UTC)