User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/Overpowered Skills/Monk/Archive 2

Mending Touch

Prolly going to get some reasons to why this isn't op, but I'll try anyway. Honestly, on monks, I don't see this skill as being too bad, but everything now, every single condition has to be spammed to get past this power skill. It made alot of builds useless, and without it, some builds would be a little over the top(Burning Arrow being one). I would love to see some talk about this skill, because it seems to have weakened many other builds.--Atlas Oranos 10:03, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Seeing as even BA uses this to keep itself alive i don't see how that is true and for ba this skills is easy, you apply poison + burning arrow ( or crip shot) and you know they will use this skill , so you cast Distracting Shot a few milisecond before they cast.Durga Dido 19:29, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

What about making it 1...3...3 Conditions so that it requires a slight investment in Protection Prayers to remove 2 Conditions, or 1...2...2 Conditions so that it requires a heavy investment into Protection Prayers to remove 2 Conditions? -- Gordon Ecker 22:54, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I think 1...2...2 is the way to go, the prot monks won't feel a difference at all but the BA noobs that use it will, and they don't deserve such a powerful, spammable condition removal --66.67.187.203 01:34, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

"BA Noobs" Just lost you any respect you may of had. Its a simple skill that does what its meant to and does it well. The BA bar uses it well and has good synergy with Troll Ungent and why shouldn't it? Stop trying to nerf everything that is usefull in this game come on! --ChronicinabilitY 04:59, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Chron (I'm not going to bother spelling your name) has a point. Just because it makes some build you have not work does not mean its bad. What about RC? What about Purge Conditions? Should those be nerfed too? I think not. A skill working well=/=nerf. A skill working too well to the point where it imbalances the game=nerf. —ǥrɩɳsɧƿoɲ〚₮/ḉ〛 05:07, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Fine then let's just act like idiots and stop ALL the nerfing and revert all previous nerfs, as the reason skills are nerfed is BECAUSE they're too useful, and just go ahead and buff everything to hell until its balanced or the game is destroyed and ANet says "oops" --66.67.187.203 05:08, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

If Mending Touch removed all conditions with the same effect it has now, it would be nerfed. As it stands, it's a perfectly balanced skill. —ǥrɩɳsɧƿoɲ〚₮/ḉ〛 05:10, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Let's try not to make this personal - respect for users has very little to do with whether a game skill is overpowered or not. That said, in this case I happen to agree that I don't think Mending Touch is that overpowered. I personally wouldn't mind a very small tweak, perhaps from 3/4 to 1 second casting time, but I don't think that even such a tweak is by any means necessary. I also think that anything larger than that change-wise would simply destroy the skill, and honestly it fits into the overall picture rather well. The last thing we really need is another condition-overload meta. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 05:13, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd much prefer an overload meta to a "conditions are completely useless" meta --66.67.187.203 05:15, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Except that even the current meta isn't a "conditions are useless meta". Even with skills so much more powerful than MT against conditions (Avatar of Melandru, anyone?)), people STILL use them, because they're balanced around being easily removed. Crippling Slash, Burning Arrow, Blinding Surge, and many others still see play simply because regardless of how much condition removal there is, they still provide plenty of functionality. Even if you can't shut down MT, that's still time spent being defensive and not offensive. Well-timed conditions can still have an impact. Blinding an interrupt ranger and following immediately afterwards with a spell you want to get off forces them into a tough position. Crippling a retreating monk and having your teammates pressure their counterpart makes them make tough decisions. Conditions still have a huge role in the metagame, so I hardly see how we desperately need a change to this particular skill to make it "all better". (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 05:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Show me how Mending Touch is IMBA?? do you have everyone running it? No. Is it going to make you invincible?. No. Can it be dealt with? Definately. Anon you're exagerating way too much and have yet to show where it's IMBA. You say BA's yet they are meant to be able to survive as a 1v1 gank, thats the point of them. They're not invincible, send 2 back and they very quickly drop. Just like the warriors that use it. Not imba at all...just usefull. --ChronicinabilitY 05:15, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Would you find it imba if all the attacker types can remove numerous hexes from themselves at will for virtually no energy on a very low recharge and cast time? --66.67.187.203 05:19, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Probably. But the difference is, hexes are balanced against a lower chance of removal, conditions are balanced against a higher removal rate. You don't see a ranger prep named Apply Conjure Phantasm, do you? (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 05:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

(Edit Conflict)Hex's aren't nearly as easily applied as conditions. And the equivelant would be holy veil (longer recharge as hexes have longer recharge too) which can yes remove a hex for just one skill slot and no attributes...and before you say it...No holy veil is not overpowered. --ChronicinabilitY 05:24, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

(resetting) No, you don't, but you do see far too many Rangers with Conjure Phantasm -.- Anyway, with far fewer conditions and more builds that rely heavily on conditions (blindbots, cripple, DW) Mending Touch paralyzes quite a bit of potential offense from conditions. Most skills are designed to require attribute investment to be useful, and the ones that get all of their needed effect or all the effect anyone cares about (pre-nerf BoA for example) without a heavy detriment are most the time greatly in need of a change to enforce attribute spending, and this one is no exception. And I wasn't planning on saying Holy Veil was overpowered. It isn't exactly this skill's counterpart either, because it removes only 1 hex when there are probably several on you that are a problem, while this removes multiple conditions and, with the small number of conditions, will usually be all of them, or at least the desired ones --66.67.187.203 05:41, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

The problem I have is you start from a premise that I don't think you can take for granted, namely that all attribute-linked skills need to be highly dependent on that attribute. I've yet to see a case for why this is so compelling as to necessitate skill balances. Disrupting Dagger, Deep Freeze, and other skills all see plenty of use on bars that don't necessarily spec into their respective attributes, but yet I do not see by any means an argument that they are overpowered as skills. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 05:50, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Lets see... heavy detriment... Deep Freeze = 25 energy, 3 cost, and since they don't spec into Water they don't have an attune to get any of the energy back. Disrupting Dagger = half-range, projectile, somehwat high recharge and no real damage at any DA level --66.67.187.203 05:54, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I have nothing more to say, you obviously have your view which isnt going to change so i'm not going to try to change it. All i can say is from both facing it and playing it i can say that it is in no way overpowered. I will agree with you that it is effective for little to no attribute spending but that's good for the game, it allows for diversity and using your chosen secondary proffession effectively. My view is simply this, It's good yes, the game needs good skills, it's not overpowered. --ChronicinabilitY 05:47, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Diversity = good; everyone using the same skill = not diverse = not good --66.67.187.203 05:49, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I guess this should be nerfed then??? --ChronicinabilitY 05:58, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Probably, though first I'd go after ZB, prot shouldn't get one of the strongest heals in the game (and for no basically no energy if condition is met) --66.67.187.203 06:01, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

The arenas where this sees use- AB and RA- isn't even that popular. Most /Mo's you see are running some variation of one of the leet builds I store on my PvXwiki. It's not on every bar, mending or resurrect on warriors is. Maybe you say that mending should be nerfed? Hmm? —ǥrɩɳsɧƿoɲ〚₮/ḉ〛 06:08, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

No, I think Whammo's brains need to be buffed, would save the poor PvE monks a lot of agony :P --66.67.187.203 06:12, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Look at the original locations of those builds- that's AB/RA/CM. Basically the only places where you see good PvPers are GvG and HA and in those places, Mending Touch is not often used except on one ganker if you have one ganker. Mending Touch is not the horrific problem you're attempting (and failing) to portray. —ǥrɩɳsɧƿoɲ〚₮/ḉ〛 06:37, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

A skill that changes the way things work isn't automatically overpowered. Mending Touch is effective because it allows to remove a condition and a cover condition, but don't forget that it's extremely inconvenient to use on other people. Deny Hexes is similarly effective because of its synergy with two common monk skills, Signet of Devotion and Divine Spirit, that allows it to perform a similar function for hexes. Additionally, conditions are built on a mechanic of being removed quickly, thus the lack of unique conditions. That's what makes Conditions separate from Hexes, which are built to be more durable and more effective. |GD Defender / contribs 06:43, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

It just seems that its too easy to remove conditions without a better investment than 3. Anyone remember the Black Widow? That pretty much relied on its conditions to force a kill, but when every split character started using it without any drawback, it made the build useless, forcing builds such as the shadow prison imo. But maybe its just the skills that need changing rather than this. And to Chron, I'm sorry, I liked it before this skill was introduced because you didn't have to force conditions for them to work. But maybe it is skills such as caltrops, and twisting fangs, etc etc that need the boost instead of this skill.--Atlas Oranos 09:52, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, to Mgrinshpon, RC and Purge aren't nerfed because of the obvious drawbacks they have, I honestly cant think of a drawback to this skill. All I'm trying to say is it does too much for too little investment.--Atlas Oranos 10:00, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

One more little bit focused on this "Stop trying to nerf everything that is usefull in this game come on!", If nothing was balanced, we would still have the original Ether Renewal smiters, the Original IWAY, Air Spike, Rspike, Spiritspam(Old spirit spam), and w/e other overpowered build you could find running rampant.--Atlas Oranos 10:07, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

The drawback to mending touch? Having to give up a skill slot for it, because chances are good it's not going to help your teammates much given the fact that it's a touch skill. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 11:45, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

And how exactly does that compare to the drawback of signet of malice and plague touch? Mending is leagues above both of those two skills because it allows removal of a condition and its cover, with no conditional requirement to meet. And one of the main reasons its so strong is because of use on others in splits.--Atlas Oranos 15:52, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

(reset) The drawback is not the skill slot as you would use something as usefull as MT anyways in that slot, the drawback is having Mo as secondary meaning you don't really have anything else usefull of that that class to use ( maybe purge signet on warrior).The problem is not that MT is overpowered it's that other condition removal just don't do as much as MT , look at signet of malice, with that you can have the ability to remove 9 conditions at max,but the problem with it is that 1 you have to target a foe, so you need an enemy in casting range and 2 that if the foe does not have any condition on them , it does not remove anything. ( yes i know you use this when you know they will have a pack of conditions on them, still) so one thing i would do is make it remove a condition by itself, but if you target a foe and use it, it does the same it already does.Also having secondary as sin would give you lots more chances of having another useful skill in that class, DD for example.This is just a start,i suggest you look at the other condition removal and see if you still think that about MT.Durga Dido 17:06, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Doing /Mo as a secondary actually allows some decent things, Restful is usually used by Assassins that need a heal, and can't spec high enough into shadow arts for feigned, Holy Veil is nice if you expect hex heavy teams(I have noticed veil usage by rangers more than once). Remove Hex, nice for the Me/Mo. And I remember a trend with mesmers using smiting skills for knockdowns.--Atlas Oranos 22:44, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, nerf this. Everyone knows that this is the only reason those BA, Cripshot, and BHA nubs survive...they need to learn eventually that barrage spike is overpowered, ownz them, and requires immediate nerfing. Readem Sorry, I'll stop trolling now. 07:32, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

So I'm guessing the sarcasm is a no, this skill is not overpowered?--Atlas Oranos 03:15, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Going in an entirely different route -- this skill should be in HEALING PRAYERS. And Healing Touch shouldn't factor in Divine Favor...should be a flat healing amount of 40 + (Attribute Rank * 5). It should be possible to create Ranger builds that can branch away from Wilderness Survival entirely (the spec would be 14 Expertise, 12 Marks, 6 Healing). A sample bar could be D-Shot, Savage Shot, Sloth Hunter's Shot, Screaming Shot, Escape, Healing Touch, Mending Touch, Rez Sig. Compared to a Burning Arrow bar you have less pressure (Burning Arrow + Apply Poison > Sloth + Screaming...even with the higher weapon rank) but better self-preservation (Escape > Natural Stride) and the ability to throw around a bit of healing to others in a split situation (Healing Touch > Troll Unguent). All of the current Ranger builds are exactly the same, outside of the Elite. It would be nice to see some more differences. Zuranthium 06:09, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

While we are at it, let us make BM good ok? How about we can have an army of animals?!? leik 3 overpowered bares, Ttgrs, rainbows, and elpfants? how bout it guyz >.O? Ownz yar yar? Readem Promote My Ban Here 06:16, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Your crazy talk is misplaced. I certainly wouldn't want it to be overpowered. FYI, moving Mending Touch to Healing and buffing Healing Breeze would also allow for a greater variety of Elites on E/Mo flag-runners as they would then have a decent enough variant to the prot-specced Shield of Regen build to make actual ELEMENTALIST Elites worth using again. And, yes, Beast Masters could be balanced for GvG as well if the thought was put into it. :-P Zuranthium 02:03, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

I think if a monk sacrifices range for an additional condition removal, than it is a fair tradeoff, and if anything else brings that along to tend to himself primarily, than they should have the benifit of fitting a condition counter in their bar, primarily for their own use. Conditions get handed out generously, and a counter which can address conditions generously should exist simply because of that, there simply should be options to easily remove 2 conditions without an elite and with reasonable recharge. Funny thing is, this skill would be less effective if it removed 3 conditions and had a 10 or 12 second recharge.--BahamutKaiser 16:03, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Back to the OP - I agree that it's a bit overpowered, especially how effective it is at low spec (and more so on a ranger - and ranger is my main class). Putting it at 1..2..2 makes some sense, as it still allows quick, cheap condition removal, but limits the power of the skill to deal with multiple conditions at low spec. --Epinephrine 17:16, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

It makes so much sense just to make the conditions removed scale from 1 - 2 at higher protection prayers. Won't bother monks and will prevent this being the most powerful self condition removal in the game, well maybe not but you might actually see Antidote Signet once in a while. I don't understand why the only nerf was to make this a spell instead of the previous skill. Change the conditions removed to 1-2 and return it to a skill so monks can combat dazed. BA already need wilderness for poison and evasion stance, marksmanship for BA and expertise to spam so making this require points would fix the problem. 58.110.139.72 23:40, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I sometimes wonder why we see proper dedicated splits so little in GvG. And i think Mending Touch is a huge factor in this (but the only factor). I like the suggestion to add a scaling mechanism to the number of conditions removed as long as the requirement to remove 2 conditions is high enough. If that happens i think split play will open up to be a bit more dynamic and conclusive rather than what it is now, watered down and merely a delaying action. At least we can be pretty confident that testing this change wont cause a drastic imbalance somewhere else like some skill changes can.--Lorekeeper 15:16, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Izzy said he liked the skill because it can be used well in a split and making the conditions removed scale would be hard on the attribute spread of players and harm splits overall but I seem to recall splits were a lot more common before this skill, and got along just fine without it. Make the conditions scale. 58.110.136.200 12:18, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

You don't see dedicated splits very often anymore because split characters and skills are so much weaker than stand characters. A dedicated split build eventually has to fight 8v8, either in the enemy base or at VoD, and dedicated split builds get destroyed in 8v8 fights. As for the topic on this section, I've been happy with Mending Touch ever since it went to 6r. -Ensign 09:10, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Light of Deliverance

I think we need more active, conditional skills that provide a "heal party" effect and not be forced into using this elite in every single team. Also, we need some more interesting reasons to use Healing Prayers than a button you hit every 6 seconds. I'm not saying that new elites are needed. More like better non-elite skills. We've got Word of Healing, but no bar to put it on. I think this skill should see a nerf once some more interesting alternatives exist. --TimeToGetIntense 06:29, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree and I hope you like the healing prayer skills in GW:EN as I aimed at giving healing a place more then just LoD. ~Izzy @-'----

Healing does have a place besides LoD, Gift of Health. Those two skills are the Healing line, and their being incompatible with each other is responsible for virtually all of the diversity in modern Monks. -Ensign 05:59, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah my statement was a bit over the top, I tried going with themes efficiency vs time between the two, Prot is all about controlling damage in an extremely fast manor, but it's not the most efficent use of mana, where LoD, Gift of Health, Heal Party and huge for the amount of health they actually Heal. In GW:EN I tried to give some very efficient heals/remove to the healing line, but the trade off is their effect isn't instant. Well see how well it works out but I think it's the diversity needed to make them both viable. ~Izzy @-'---- 19:52, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Every Monk has been triple speccing for over a year now, so talking about whether one of the lines is viable isn't all that relevant. People are going to spec Healing on their Monks. The real question is, are the choices going to be more complicated than Gift or LoD in the future? -Ensign 10:32, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I hope so, I'm at least trying to give some better alternative in GW:EN. ~Izzy @-'---- 18:18, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Is Patient Spirit the entirety of these implied buffs to healing prayers in GW:EN or do you have some secret plans for some buffs to old skills? --Edru viransu 06:49, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

There are 5 GW:EN healing skills if I recall correctly, I think Patient spirit is probably the weaker of the batch too, I can see a few skills getting buffed here and there. ~Izzy @-'---- 18:49, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Eyes of the north offers alternate hex and condition removal but won't radically alter bars. You will see cure hex replace holy veil in some cases and probably some dabbling in spotless mind and spotless soul. Healing ribbon really can't be stuffed on a monk bar (but this would be really energy efficient in TA.) Patient spirit is less efficient than existing heals. If you want more diverse healing bars, you really need options in your healing elites. Buffing Glimmer of Light, Word of Healing, and Healing Light will be necessary. In addition the current split meta does a lot to force LoD, without a source to mop up degen a build become very fragile. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Warskull (talk • contribs) 05:53, 25 July 2007 (UTC).

Healers are going to feature Light of Deliverance until there is another viable stand party heal available (which at this point means something to make Healer's Boon attractive again). The bigger issue with Healing Prayers is that it does not offer multiple abilities. Almost all of its skills make bars go up and nothing more. As you get better at the game, you need less skills with that ability on your bar. Realistically you only need one strong spot heal, in conjunction with a party heal and a bunch of prot to stabilize while those recharge. Cure Hex will certainly see a lot of play on LoD bars, since it offers a needed ability plus a heal, but I don't expect any of the other skills to break onto bars. -Ensign 19:45, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Come on...when LoD affects one person, it's better than orison. Lower heal would kill it...I think it should be more conditional. Maybe all hexed allies, or all enchanted allies below X, etc. Right now it's the only viable healing elite to run. Shard 04:32, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

It's not like people would run other healing elites if LoD disappeared. They'd run more prot elites, and we'd be playing a game of "Hide the Heal Party" all over again. -Ensign 09:04, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Just because it's used, doesn't mean it's abused. Skill is not overpowered. --g/r)IyO*[[*/c,']] 09:08, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

The need to bring a LoD makes so many otherwise decent monk skills fall by the wayside. Healing Prayers needs some other strong, efficient red-bars-go-up options (ribbon may help this) so that LoD isn't quite as necessary. Still, it's too good at mitigating spread damage all by itself. Possibly change to 75% or 70% or 6s recharge?72.211.155.160 08:26, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

What about buffing Heal Party? -- Gordon Ecker 09:00, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Nerfing a perfectly balanced skill is not the excuse for having >50 crap ones be contenders for a bar. --g/rIn.s**o*[[*/c,']] 14:13, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Nerfing about the only semi-useful Healing Prayers skill will do little good. From what I can see, the EotN HP skills will not change the metagame significantly, if at all. Readem (talk*gwwcontribs) 06:33, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Light of Deliverance *is* the Healing line (Gift is a prot skill and Infuse is unlinked, in practice)... and people still spec 14 healing and run 40/40 heal sets for it. If you've got that much spec in healing you may as well run something else, so people take crap like Kiss and Sig of Rejuv, but the raison d'etre of those guys is LoD. When an entire line is defined by one skill, and people *still* spec highly in that line for that one skill, it ought to tell you something about it. I'm not saying that LoD should be nerfed and nothing else done; I'm saying that it should be brought in line in power with the rest of the Healing Prayers line, and then the entire line buffed somehow. Right now the Healing line is "balanced", in that LoD is really good and everything else is really bad and it meets in the middle. This makes for a boring meta (although it's easy to mesmer against). Fix the other healing elites to be less horribad, buff some of the other skills, tone down LoD, and you'll see a lot more diversity in backlines. --72.211.155.160 18:30, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I think LoD is core to the game right now and until there is a viable replacement I don't think this skill will see any changes, you need a party wide super efficient heal to deal with pressure. ~Izzy @-'---- 23:46, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree, even if LoD were to be nerfed (albeit in a sensible manner such as a slight healing reduction or recharge increase), people won't stop running it because it fills a vital role for which the alternatives are extremely limited. The only way it'll ever leave Monk bars is if it either gets nerfed horribly (requiring people to be below 60 or 70% health is one such way), or something else becomes viable. TLLOTS 00:00, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

"I think LoD is core to the game right now [and will be] until there is a viable replacement". Izzy, that's your job. YOU are the only person who can make other options viable. In terms of only Monks, making Divine Healing and Heaven's Delight into party-wide heals (but with less of a Heal) could provide a suitable replacement -- if the other Healing Elites were buffed up enough such that the tradeoff was worth it. Healing Light and Word of Healing both have great potential and it comes down to skillbar compression. Healing Light needs to be an Elite hybrid of Dismiss Condition and Gift of Health...5 energy, 3/4 cast, 3 recharge...heal for 40 + (Attribute Rank * 5) and Remove a condition. Gain 0....2 energy (same breakpoints as there are right now) if the target was enchanted. For Word of Healing, it needs to be able to act as both a spot heal and an Infuse Health-type ability. Decrease the recharge to 1 second, increase both the conditional and non-conditional heals by 10 points, and make it cast twice as fast if the target was under 50% health. If those new versions of the skills seem overpowered, it only goes to show how strong LoD is. Zuranthium 05:41, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Someone has very nicely summed up why LoD is bad for the game in the discussion of Frenzy: "A reason it's hard to punish sloppy frenzy use is Light of Deliverance. You can land some good hits on a warrior in frenzy, and unless it was a full-on spike, that damage is negated the moment he drops below 80%. Prior to Nightfall, prior to heal party bots even, every bit of damage you took was a hit to your monks' energy, but no longer with easy, spammable spread-healing to patch up everyone's kiting/positioning/frenzy mistakes. Shame that."

This is very true: Prior to LoD, a big part of good (non-protection) monking was determining when to heal and not heal to early. LoD spam has taken all that needed skill away (additionally to destroying non-protection monks in general). A party wide Divine healing would at least require monks to time their party heals, while LoD can be spammed. --Xeeron 15:10, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

How about 5 > 10E, and remove the req <80%? Now at least LoD monks will have to use GOLE to spam it and can't /a or /me -OR- make it earshot (the aegis change was the best skill balance in GW history). This would stop the LoD from being able to stay so far back, and help to punish over-extending wars. love, Aran 20:50, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I hate healing prayers too. Let us nerf it, and have all Prot Monk backlines. Readem Warning: Ignore this User if at all possible. 08:40, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

i think a change like aegis(earshot) would be better. it would penalize over extending and would allow a split to really split the enemy team on small halls. Therjak 07:30, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

The problem with healing in GW is people have so little health compared to damage, if someone has lost so much health they actually need a big heal then it's likely a spike or your playing badly and so they will probably be dead before you can get to them, or protection is where you want to go anyway. Protection prayers have too much healing clout and utility there is no real need for 80% of healing skills, if not more. This skill is fine, people run it because of the Meta not because it's too poweful. Any change on this would likely kill it. 58.110.141.203 10:03, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

What about increasing the healing and making LoD cause you to lose 1 Energy for each ally healed? -- Gordon Ecker 01:57, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

the problem is not its raw healing power, but no matter how far your split is away, on most maps you can still heal both teams. and without your frontline hitting theirs you do not bring enough damage on their overextended frontline to outpower lod. but while your frontline runs back their monks can do the same. Therjak 11:47, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

with the power creep that came with NF and the lack of any healing skills to match that power creep, id say that LoD was necessary. i also agree that compass wide heal support is a little too powerful. Perhaps doing to LoD wat was done to aegis might be a good solution. Heal party members in earshot only, or in spirit range (Earshot might be too small - gotta heal those extending warriors!). This might encourge split play, which imo is what is severely lacking in GvG atm (which is a symptom of several other problems).--Lorekeeper 15:07, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I get tons of complaints about this skill so I'll give you impressions on this. In order for guild wars to work, you 100% need a heal party effect type of skill its been required sense day of of this game and the whole game is balanced around that. LoD is the only real valid option at this point as Heal party is too easily shut down this day and age, also the two don't work together so you lean on LoD. Controlling, Interrupting, and dealing with the heal party skill is part of the game it's what makes a pressure work, and what allows you to stop a pressure build from working. That being said if you nerfed this skill it would single handled destroy the backline of guild wars and pressure builds would 100% rule the day. I don't plan on changing this skill anytime soon. ~Izzy @-'---- 21:59, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

i agree you need a party heal to counter pressure builds. but i find myself often standing right in the middle of nothing healing 2 teams on opposite sides of the map. on nomads both lod standing on the flagstand still heal their split teams near the lordroom. on catapult maps you heal from the flag your team at the gate. on corrupted you still reach your team on the other way. on burning you can stand near your lord and heal the team at the opposing lord. thats nearly as ridiculous as a skill "heal every ally you cant see". Therjak 11:13, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

So, why don't you buff Heal Party (1s cast, maybe 10e in exchange for recharge), or Divine Healing (healing prayers, shout range, tweak hp)? I understand that an efficient party heal is necessary, but (as you admitted) LoD owns HP hard enough to be virtually mandatory. If you can't nerf LoD, at least allow us some variety, and healing prayers is bad enough that power creep should be kept in check. 134.130.4.46 09:15, 8 November 2007 (UTC)