User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/Underpowered Skills/Monk/Archive 1

Remove Hex

Simple skill, terrible cast time, never going to get used as it is, especially since the abundance of 5 energy 1 sec cast hex removal spells that have other effects, Veil, Smite Hex etc. Simply change to 1 sec cast to make usefull. Keep the shorter recharge as it doesnt have any other efects. --ChronicinabilitY 09:05, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I've run it on an MoR mes before, a little bit like running Draw for hexes (yes I know it only removes one). --Xasxas256 01:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree, Remove Hex isn't terrible, just a tad niche. Running it on a Fast Casting Mesmer gives them powerful non-elite hex removal with its low recharge time compared to said other hex removals, and it is also unlinked meaning you don't have to specc in Protection or Smiting Prayers for a side benefit. Of course, I suppose there's a reason you don't see too many hex removing Mesmers in PvP, but the potential is there. --J. Dublin

Truly an amazing skill in the mantra of recovery mesmer's hans, Im thinknig more and more that that mantra is Ovepowerful --Ckal Ktak 13:21, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

The main problem of mantra is that any spell have to be checked while using it. I love MoR and would hate seeing nerfed, but it is true it has a great effect on game balance as a good non spammable spell can become an overpowered spammable spell under MoR. --Faena 21:07, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Make a comment here then. --Ckal Ktak 21:24, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

As of the August 9th update this skill has a 1 sec cast and 8 recharge. I don't think this is underpowered anymore. Antiarchangel 14:59, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

definetely not if it stays like this. - Y0_ich_halt 15:01, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

As can be seen these discussion pages obviously do work!...and i'm much happier now thanks to Izyy! Cheers! --ChronicinabilitY 23:26, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Divine Boon. Or Blessed Light

Make splittable monks feasible again, please? --Edru viransu 23:34, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

The main reason why these guys where splittable is because they where insanely overpowered, you could easily out heal most damagers, and you had all the tools to keep yourself alive. The main reason I don't line Divine boon is because it allows Prot to be healing, and that drives me nuts, there is a really nice balance between Healing and Prot right now I mean both healers are being used right now and I think thats a really good thing. As for splittable monks there are a lot of good splittable monks out there I mean I've played a lot of Hero Battles and most monks being used in there have to be able to hand all situations, ZB makes for a pretty strong Monk. The Main difference is it's hard to make a monk that is both awesome on split and good in 8v8 thats not boon prot. ~Izzy @-'----

BLight was overpowered? Now that I've thought more, though, I agree that splittable monks are feasible. I've instead concluded that most people who play GW now are just bad at splitting. --Edru viransu 20:11, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I agree here, I think the game has really turned away from splitting and it's something I'm actively looking at, teams like Laptop Superheroes, have shown that splits still work very very well, because so many teams have a hard time dealing with it. My personal feeling is the key guilds that where pros at splitting have moved on and there is no one driving the high level strategy for splitting, while a lot of the 8v8 teams are stuck around and have continued to push the 8v8 strategy.~Izzy @-'----

Blessed Light was never anywhere near overpowered. The original Blessed Light Monks were Gift of Health, Mend Condition, Signet of Devotion Monks with the only good, flexible Monk elite available at the time (Restore Condition was unnecessary as stacked conditions were not ubiquitous in that meta). Nightfall added some actually good elites for Monks which made Blessed Light, which is merely ok, expendable. Also Izzy, I need to call you on saying that Boon Monks were insanely overpowered. They have never been overpowered in the entire history of retail Guild Wars, the only exception being, perhaps, right at release when Energy Drain was still the most ridiculous skill ever. Divine Boon was simply the *only* option when playing a Monk until Factions came out, because the Healing line was so abysmally bad. Once Factions came out with Gift of Health, people started switching to Gift of Health Monks, as they were more robust, more flexible, and more durable than the Boon Monks. By the time GWFC came about, non-Boon Monks outnumbered Boon Monks in high level play, and that trend only continued after the event. Of course the entire character was obliterated shortly thereafter, making the entire discussion moot. I submit, however, that you could reverse every one of the post-GWFC nerfs to the Boon Monk, and the character would not see frequent play in the current environment. Modern Monks outclass GWFC Boon Monks by every metric except, perhaps, effectiveness when doing nothing but spamming RoF. -Ensign 05:52, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Boon Prot was really good for 4v4, but now there's always something that someone can do to totally dominate any single Monk build, usually involving some cheap gimmick. Boon Prot can handle any of that crap. --TimeToGetIntense 06:16, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Even the Boon-Prots of old days would have trouble dealing with all that's around now actually (well, not OLD days when EDrain was stupid, but just before their nerf). Even just stuff like Corrupt Enchant Necro could make them waste a lot of precious energy. I really don't see how they'd even fit in current days monk meta anyway (except maybe in TA), but i agree that rebuffing them to exactly how they were before the nerf would at best give a monking alternative in some builds/situations. And maybe allow some Mesmer skills to be a bit more viable again too! Patccmoi 14:41, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah your right Ensign it really wasn't Boon that was a problem and more the energy management that was used to fuel boon. I guess my problem with it is I felt it too easily allowed you to make up for the weakness of the prot line, and because of it made balancing healing impossible. As for Blessed Light, I still feel that was one of my favorite monk bars out there, and I don't really see it coming back because of the strong need for block and condition removal, but versatility in play extremely fun IMO. ~Izzy @-'---- 20:09, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

The previous versions of the emanagement skills weren't really problematic - compare their power to even the current Glyph of Lesser Energy. The elites were 'just good enough' but not exactly good skills, while the non-elites were really powerful but unwieldy on a Monk. In general those characters were paying for the Boon with their secondary, several skill slots, and a bunch of points. The problem was that Monk elites were *awful* pre-Nightfall. Blessed Light was the best at the time (Restore Condition wasn't relevant), and it's unplayable by current standards. Do you really think that working a 2-pip EDrain to pay for a 2-pip Divine Boon would stand up in an environment with Light of Deliverance, Zealous Benediction, Divert Hexes, Shield of Deflection, and Restore Condition? There wasn't anything problematic about the old Booners. The alternatives were just trash. -Ensign 10:57, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to see Blessed Light strip off 1..2..3 hexes and conditions, unconditionally, in one go. That, IMO, would make me want to run it again. --Pork soldier 02:43, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Blight at the same scale as Power Spike (30...102...120) or even 30...114...135 would pack some good punch. Makes it an okay heal, but nothing you want to spam around like Gift, as Blight is pricier for its effects. I'm sad to see such a relatively flexible skill go in favor of the more narrow elites like RC, but the metagame is the metagame. Nothing like iQ vs. EvIL #3 back in the tournament to make me want to play Blight again.

As for boonprot, it's still spinning in its grave... while I don't think it's strong enough to survive today's offenses I still think it's been overnerfed. There was a relatively recent thread on guru about these guys. ~Seef II <?> 03:00, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

about the only way to make blessed light more viable is to change it like this: 5 energy, 3-5sec recharge (can't really decide). remove 1 hex, 1 condition, and heal for x. if a hex is removed this way, you lose 5 energy. as it is right now, blessed light can't compete with the other monk elites because they are especialized and can do their job very well. blessed light is a "jack of all trades" kind of skill, and there's no room for it in the current monk meta. doing the way i suggested it will make it a good bar compression skill, which might make it runnable.Moriz 01:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

That would be awesome, but 5 energy for just one hex on an elite isn't worth it. It should be halfway between Weapon of Remedy but remove a hex and when it does, provide a conditional heal such as 5/ .75/ 5 "Heal target ally for 10...66...80 health and remove a condition and a hex. If a hex was removed, you lose 5 energy and heal target ally for an additional 10...58...70 health." That way, you've got a powerful heal (which is what this skill needs worst of all) and versatility in the form of a conditional heal which won't decimate your energy. —ǥȓɩηşɧ〚₮/ḉ〛 07:26, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

that would be awesome, but might just be a little too powerful. i like it though, since the alternatives (divert hexes, RC, SoD, LoD) are more powerful still. i've always envisioned BL as a skill that can replace GoH and dismiss conditions on a monk bar, making it a great bar compression skill.

upon discussion on gwg, i think the healing needs to be a bit higher: 10...87...106 for the base heal, and 10...66...80 for the bonus heal. essentially, the base healing at 14 divine needs to be comparable to gift of health at 9 healing.

here are some of the ideas being bounced around regarding blessed light on gwg:

5e .75c 5r Heal target ally for 15...83...100 health and remove a condition and a hex. If a hex was removed this way, you lose 5 energy and heal target ally for an addition 15...51...60 health.

5e .75c 3r Heal target ally for 15...83...100 health and remove a condition and a hex. If a hex was removed this way, you lose 5 energy and heal target ally for an addition 15...39...45 health.

5e .25c 12r Heal target ally for 15...99...120 health and remove a condition and a hex.

10e .75c 3r Heal target ally for 10...94...115 health and remove a condition and a hex. If you heal a target ally, you gain 3 energy.

the last two ideas are courtesy of Zuranthium. so what do you all think? good/bad/overpowered? User:Moriz

I like the first one the most. The third is just an Empathic with longer recharge and heal. —ǥrɩɳsɧƿoɲ〚₮/ḉ〛 03:36, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I think the first idea is the most balanced out of all of them, if this got a 12 second recharge I doubt it would ever see play again.--Atlas Oranos 20:37, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

The point would be to use it on a Monk runner. Quarter second hex removals are powerful and it additionally can be a very quick, efficient heal and a condi removal. Would combo very well with Deny Hexes as well to create a runner that you'd slot in when you expect to fight hex teams. Zuranthium 16:44, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

→ moved from User_talk:Isaiah_Cartwright/Misc_Skill_Tweaks#Blessed_Light

I was looking at this skill and thinking, "this skill is awesome!" But when it really comes down to it, this skill just isn't as good as the other monk elites. I like it because it's really flexible and because it's in DF. But tbh this skill just doesn't see much use because it's such a huge drain on energy, and with the recent changes it's even more tempting to waste energy on it. I would suggest changing it to something more like.

Elite Spell. Heal target ally for 10...66...80 Health and remove one Condition and one Hex. For each Hex and Condition removed by this skill you gain 1...2...2 energy.

The healing may have to be lowered even farther and maybe change it back to 5 second recharge. But I think adding an energy gain back would really help this skill out and tempt monks on gank teams to bring this rather than something like zb. Just my thoughts, anyone else? --Lou-Saydus 20:13, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

I like that suggestion much better than some of the others which involve losing 5 energy is a hex is removed - I run this with Glyph of lesser energy, the 5 energy loss just doesn't work with it there. With your suggestion it does what it does best while gaining energy, and is less efficient for one hex/condition removals. I really hope that's what this skill ends up looking like! The versatility of this skill is what's great about it and ur suggestion really helps tempt this skill for pvp. 58.110.136.200 11:08, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

I'll toss out there that BLight is just Cure Hex for 10 with a fast recharge now. I'd like to see it get a bit more punch and be worth the 10. -Ensign 20:12, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

I think one of the biggest problems with working around this skill is any change to lower the cost makes Empathic Removal look horrible. They could both do with a little work. Maybe lessen the heal to the same as Orison and give Empathic Removal double divine favour? Well they would both kinda do the same thing then, I dunno. 122.104.228.149 13:48, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Glimmer of Light

Before the release of NF, it was one of the most expected spell. Then it came nerfed so much that no one really used it. Healing prayers need a boost, and this spell could be a correct pressure heal. It needs maybe a recharge to 1 second or a little more healing. In its current state it is not worth the elite slot. --Faena 14:14, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Or a "if you heal a target with less than 50% HP, you gain 2 energy?" That would balance the weak heal with a suitable amount of spammability (as it is, spamming is the only way to match the raw healing power of even prot elites like ZB, and spamming as it is runs you out of energy in no time). -Auron 17:01, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

"If target ally is still under 80%, you gain 2 energy and this skill recharges instantly." --Deathwing 17:05, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Please please give it the 1 sec recharge again. I really don't see why it needed to be changed.--Around 13:15, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

It wasn't really imba to begin with. The extra second of recharge really beat it to death. —g?????[[[User talk:Mgrinshpon|?]]/?] 13:53, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I thought it was bad when it had a 1s recharge. It would be bad without any recharge at all as well. -Ensign 19:56, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

It needs to do something unique. Giving back a little energy isn't unique, doesn't give this skill a special niche. If it gave your target a little energy, that would be something. --TimeToGetIntense 21:08, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

5 / .25 / 1 Healing Prayer Heals for 25...73...85. That target gains 2 energy. This way you could use it on yourself. Or add, this skill heals double the divine favor. Anti Oath 03:18, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

That might truly be too powerful when used on the other monk. Somehow i can already imagine N/Mos in HA spamming this on everyone else. How about blinds all foes adjacent to your target for 1 second =p Would give a minor prot in a healing elite, like ZB gives a heal to prot. Patccmoi 14:48, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Looks a bit exagereted though:p but that makes sense, adjacent foes could be blind because of the too powerfull light strike that occurs when this skill is used on a target ^^ i'd prefer something like, the target has +25 or 30 max health during 2 seconds/the next damages taken by this spell's target during 2 seconds are cut by half or 25%. Glimmer of Light remaining 5/0.25/2 ~~ Azul 15:01, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

The blind thing seems pretty cool. Also, The energy thing wouldn't be bad. The energy gain could be linked to Divine Favor if it would be a problem on off-monks. --TimeToGetIntense 02:02, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I think the healing being buffed would be enough to make it a good skill. A 14-spec healing light should heal around as much as a 9-spec gift of health. Pluto 22:56, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

The only thing this thing needs is that 1 second recharge so it can be used with Channeling. —ǥrɩɳsɧƿoɲ〚₮/ḉ〛 15:55, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

If it doesn't have a really useful utility niche, it will never, ever see play over LoD. Even if LoD is nerfed and Glimmer heals more, I think people will just run backlines like SoD + RC or SoD + ZB or something. --TimeToGetIntense 04:54, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

This skill should heal for a lot more, not something that's similar to Orison heals. 76.64.59.41 04:26, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

This is going to have to be buffed a *lot* to compete with LoD. I'd suggest making it heal target ally and nearby allies as well. Red-bars-go-up skills will only be competitive if they offer significant efficiency. --72.211.155.160 09:08, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

This could use a buff to heals, considering most other elites have a stronger heal.--Atlas Oranos 09:51, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm going way out there with this suggestion, but here it is - GLIMMER OF LIGHT should always recharge instantly (ie. - goes right through Diversion in addition to actually having a recharge of 0), should be immune to effects that would cause it to fail, be interrupted, or become disabled...and should be able to be cast while the caster is knocked down. The energy-to-healing ratio for this skill is REALLY bad for an Elite but if it was 100% infallible, it would definitely be interesting. Overpowered, you say? It's something that needs to be toyed around with, but I'm pretty sure the skill needs this kind of unique trait to see play. The inefficiency really does keep it in check...like Distortion. At worst, if it did turn out to be overpowered, you could just keep tweaking the numbers (the amount that it heals for) until a suitable balance is found. Zuranthium 03:21, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

The idea is interesting, but where do you propose your heal party comes from when running Glimmer? Would you run Glimmer + LoD backline at the sacrifice of SoD or RC? I guess you could pull it off with Guardian being so good now. --TimeToGetIntense 02:26, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

You could run a Glimmer + LoD backline, or you could run Glimmer + Prot and give each of your Monks Divine Healing/Heaven's Delight (see suggestion above). Monk builds should be totally fluid and just depend on your team. Zuranthium 01:05, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Channeling? Might even go so far as to make the skill able to be activated while moving or KD'd, as a shout or somesuch.

I think this skill is fine. It's like an Orison of Healing but better.--§ Eloc § 03:30, 17 August 2007

(UTC)But orison sucks >.>--Atlas Oranos 12:02, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I have been running this skill today in AB. I find it to be quite useful. It isn't quite as effective as running the SoR build that I usually run, but it has FAR better energy management. The 1/4 second cast, guaranteed heal is great. Maybe not though, but it seems to be working fairly good. --Deathwing 01:21, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

You can't run this in GvG. The other team will always have a stronger backline if you do that. --TimeToGetIntense 20:11, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Soul Wedding would disagree. Readem Warning: Ignore this User if at all possible. 08:46, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

So long as LoD exists, there will be no place for this skill in GvG. Until it does something that warrants dropping the party-wide heal off a monk, it stays crap. --Tensei 12:33, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Technically, it could also replace the prot monk, since 11 spec spirit bond really isn't that bad. Of course, it'd have to be better than SoD or RC then... Pluto 09:26, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Also would just like to point out that if Glimmer healed 100+ at 14 heal, it would be about as efficient as a well placed rof but as consistent as a gift. In other words, you could free up a slot for more utility or small prots since glimmer fulfills the function of two skill slots. It's for that reason I don't think glimmer needs any utility itself, since it allows for that already. It just needs to be better at what it does. Pluto 01:34, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Healing Breeze

healing breeze. It was, a very long time ago (more than 2 years ago) my favorite spell. And it is really efficient at low level PvE. But it quickly become useless as foes do more and more damage. It could maybe get a little boost such as becoming 5e aand lasting 8seconds, so that it would allow to counter hex degen pressure, without directly nerfing many hexes and boosting hex removal. With a nice boost it could maybe be an addition to a LoD bar. --Faena 14:14, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

That would make Restful Breeze look really bad. The way that skill looks, it shouldn't be made to look any worse. --Deathwing 22:43, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Nearly every pug monk I've grouped with has had this stuck in their bar, personally I'm a bigger fan of direct heals. I think skill is pretty balanced as it is, not underpowered. Xitoahc 03:36, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

It heals for about the same as Heal Other over 10 seconds. Healing Breeze deals with pressure better, Heal Other deals with spike better. Healing Breeze can be cast on yourself, which helps some. The problem with Healing Prayers is that they don't reduce damage. I'll give you an example. An assassin goes to spike a monk, the monk uses Guardian before the assassin starts his spike. Now, with Guardian up, the assassin may or may not land his first attack. Let's assume he does just to keep it close. Black Spider Strike. This will probably hit for 30-40 damage. Let's assume the dual attack misses. That leaves the assassin normal attacking for awhile. Normal attacking for 4 seconds, only landing 2, will get around 10-20 damage each, so possibly 50-80 damage dealt in them 5 seconds Guardian was up. Now, lets say that same assassin attacked a Healing Prayers monk. 30-40 damage from Black Spider Strike, 100-120 with Death Blossom, 80 with Impale, 80 with Signet of Toxic Shock, all in that 5 seconds. That is about what? 350 damage plus deep wound. So looking at this example, casting Guardian saved the monk from around 250-300 damage and deep wound. You need a REALLY good healing skill to make up for the 250-300 damage that Guardian stopped. --Deathwing 03:53, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

This why you don't run a 'Heal Monk' and a 'Prot Monk'...both should be speccing into all 3 (Heal, Prot, DF) =D --ChronicinabilitY 21:37, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Except the Prot monk specs more into Prot and the Heal monk specs more into Heal. 76.64.186.175 18:51, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

1/4 cast time Imo.--Renegade 16:15, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Reduce the energy cost to 5 to make it less energy costly but up the recharge to 5 or 8 seconds to compensate. Jigoku 13:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Healing Ribbon

A good concept that could have helped reduce dependence on LoD, hurt by unreliability. Suggested fix: Do not chain to allies above 80% health, or choose the two targets with the lowest health remaining. Possibly increase AOE to Area. Riotgear 04:45, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Healing Prayers as a whole

The day a pure healing prayers build is good in pvp, is the day when mending is meta. When was the last time you saw somebody using a healing prayer skill, other than LoD, infuse, or GoH. Healing Prayers skills suck because they all pretty much do the same thing which is wait for somebody to take damage then heal it. I could wait for somebody to take damage and heal it, or just stop it in the first place with a Prot. For the way healing deals with damage, almost every skill needs to do it way better. Antiarchangel 20:07, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

just a few minutes ago, when I saw an lod monk monk running dwayna's kiss... Haven't seen an actual pure healing monk (or something really close to one) since glyph got nerfed and healer's boon monks disappeared from the meta completely, but heal monks were being run in an sod/boon backline for awhile... and mending wasn't meta ;) Pluto 23:36, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Word of Healing

I think you should either remove the recharge on this skill or make it able to target self. --TimeToGetIntense 23:00, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

This is one of those skills that really doesn't need a buff, it just doesn't see play because there are even more powerful prot elites out there (and if you're going to pick a healing prayers elite, LoD is just so much more useful). Gift of Health fulfills the role WoH would play right now, and there's no non-elite equivalent to a lot of the prot elites that overshadow WoH. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 01:46, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Sure it does. It's not versitile enough. It might seem like ZB is better even if WoH would target self, but you can't cast ZB on a character with >50% HP unless you want to spend 10 energy and overheal. You can cast WoH on a character who needs a 100 HP heal or a character who needs a 200 HP heal and it's efficient either way. Because it has a slightly long recharge for a heal and that you can't target yourself forces you to bring other skills that do the same thing but worse. I actually think the recharge should be lowered to 3 seconds and it should be able to target self. --TimeToGetIntense 02:02, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

What makes you think that the skill is too weak? I think it's just like Restore Condition was before Nightfall, a plenty powerful skill that just doesn't do something important enough to burn a Monk elite on. You can't keep people alive by pumping heals into them alone in PvP, you need good Prot as a first response and to stabilize, the big heals are a secondary concern. Word is phenomenal in PvE however, where big damage packets and pumping heals into someone is commonplace. -Ensign 20:11, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't see the under-powered-ness, I use this all the time, it works GREAT for me. ^^ Though I mostly play in PvE with this... It's just not wanted in PvP xD Vengeance Signet 20:12, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I find Protection to be much stronger in PvE. The harder it gets, the stronger Prot gets. By the time it's supposed to be a challenge, you just RoF and Prot Spirit everything. RoF constantly heals for near its max because the PvE mobs are so pumped later on. WoH only seems to serve as an easy skill for the hench/heroes to use. --TimeToGetIntense 21:01, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

WoH outpaces RoF in PvE when you're using a tank that mitigates damage rather than just buffers it (i.e. high AL, absorption, et cetera) - you end up with a lot of smaller damage sources rather than a medium number of ProtSpr-capped hits. When you're getting hit by 10 mobs for 30 each rather than 5 mobs for 60 each, WoH pulls ahead. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 21:04, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Of coures Prot is great in PvE, and you use that too. Point is that more raw damage gets through, bars go down more, and power heals are more relevant. -Ensign 22:13, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Ive had dunk running this and it seems to work very well...a lot of people ask for my hero builds...Anyway...dont see why LoD gets all of the press.Killer Revan 14:00, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Because you're doing hero battles instead of 8v8. LoD is godly in 8v8 because it's like casting up to 8 orisons at the same time for only 5 energy. Pluto 01:06, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry...forgot to say that i am talking about balance from a PvE standpoint...dont PvP much...anyway...WoH heros work well in an 8-player PvE scenario.Killer Revan 13:59, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Feel like resurrecting this, to be perfectly honest, I would rather take Zealous Benediction, it syncs up well with gole, can be casted on self, etc etc. Why not make this skill self target as well, its in a class with generally weak skills anyway, and could be a nice boost to the heal line.--Atlas Oranos 09:48, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree. You just don't have enough skill slots to take this elite because you need to take other skills to support yourself. --TimeToGetIntense 19:21, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

This skill needs to be able to act as both a spot heal and Infuse Health on a Monk's bar for it to ever be able to compete with Light of Deliverance. Reduce the recharge to 1 second, increase both conditional and non-conditional healing amounts by 10 points, and make it cast twice as fast if the target was under 50% Health. If that sounds overpowered then you better nerf LoD. Zuranthium 16:49, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with buffing WoH - it seems to already be overused in PvE. I know that every n00b in the game is asking me to put it on my skill bar, as if it's the only elite skill in the game. The n00bs also seem to have the "only spike healing skills are good" mentality as well. Guess what guaruntees a party wipe? Their skill bar, of course. -_- Anyways, back on topic - WoH seems to be used a lot with "spike healing" builds, which are surprisingly common in PvE, even with 8 person teams where everybody is getting damage. Cobraa1 19:12, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

People tend to prefer healing monks in PvE because in some explorable areas monsters carry heavy enchantment removal. I have to agree that most healing prayers skills have self target restrictions that make it very undesirable in the PvP environment like WoH, Healing Whisper (half range), Healing Ribbon and Dwaynas kiss. There are 3 non elite skills that I can think of that give average heal Orisis of Healing, Word of Confort and Healing Touch (Touch range). All 3 of these heals cannot out heal damage spikes and monks have to rely on Protection prayers for survival. That is why monks tend to edge away from Healing Prayers in PvP and try to allocate all attributes towards Prot and Devine; skills like Devine Boon, ZB, Dismiss Condition allow divert away from Healing Prayers while heal at the same time. Another weakness of Healing Prayers is it's inability to deal with conditions and hexes. With the introduction of Cure Hex and the buff of Deny Hexes and Remove Hex it may be able to address the hex part. But monks still rely on protection prayers (or smite when GWEN comes out) for condition removal. I think it would be great if WoH could target self and make it more usable in the PVP field. --Shadetz X 10:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. People tend to prefer healing Monks in PvE because very few Monks can preprot worth a damn, and most can't even deliver timely prot reactively. When the only skills a player can use effectively are basic 'bars go up' heals that's all they should take. -Ensign 09:05, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. Prot is insanely powerful in PvE. WoH is really strong too, especially in conjunction with Prot because WoH is very efficient and flexible until you take damage yourself! So in PvE, just stay back and don't get aggro on you, problem solved. --TimeToGetIntense 00:48, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Problem is, in pvp you cant control what your enemies do, and while this skill is nice, I would honestly take zb over it. I dont see why it should be overpowered by zb. But my main argument is that in its skill line, you cant do much but spam heals to protect yourself, or die... this skill could become a much more appealing skill in pvp and could actually see use if it was buffed alittle, not in terms of healing, but self targetting.--Atlas Oranos 20:33, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I did not say Protection Prayers is weak. In fact, I think it is far from weak. If I play monk I prefer Prot over Healing and I openly admit I am one of those enchantment abusers. But, the fact remains that henchies, heroes and newb monks do a poor job administering Prot Enchantments. For example, putting guardian on an agent who is getting wanded while another agent is getting bashed by 2 Tanks. There are some parts in PvE where there are large amounts of enchantment removal. Those are the places where I use semi prot builds, usually ZB as elite, when I play monk. But, I will turn my monk heroes into healing monks in these places. It is sad to say but I think it is somewhat ironic that Zealous Benediction, a prot elite, is considered a better healing spell than all the single target healing elites, like Healing Light and Word of Healing. You can Self Target with ZB too!!!! --Shadetz X 10:48, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

It's sad people are bringing a Protection Elite to do what healing prayers is supposed to do. 58.110.136.200 12:09, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

The brilliant thing about this skill is it's the most forgiving elite of any. Any situation you're in can use a great heal and this is it. If you cast it on someone above 50% health it works, if they are below it works. You don't lose much, if anything, if you cast it while above 50% health and so it's nice for newer players working their way into the profession, and even henchies, who don't consider the 75%/50% breakpoints. It's also great for experienced players and spamable too. The problem with a lot of skill is even though we have skill diversity, the way the game is balanced atm, there are just a handful of skills out there which are vastly better than others. Dancing Gnome 12:00, 22 October 2007 (UTC)