User talk:Raine Valen/Mass Balance/Ranger/Skills/Archive

Index

General Discussion

Uhhh... where is the balance suggestion? Also, you are wrong, rangers have low DPS because they are supposed to have low DPS, not because of Read the Wind <3 Misery 17:43, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm not blaming Read the Wind. I'm blaming preparations. Currently, if rangers had the same DPS as other classes, it would be imbalanced since rangers have preparations and other classes don't. So rangers are gimped damage-wise. The problem is that this REQUIRES rangers to have preparations to be competitive with others-when do you see rangers without preparations unless they're using volley or barrage? The same principle can be applied to any "damage bonus on attack" such as Strength of Honor, Orders, Conjures, and Anthem of Envy.

I'm not seeing a problem here. And no, if rangers had the same DPS as other classes it'd be imbalanced because they're ranged, not because they have preparations. --75.71.67.5 20:03, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

If ranged damage is a problem, then nerf this which can do 14-27 RANGED damage at even shorter intervals than rangers while wielding a shield and wearing heavy armor. If ranged damage is a problem, let's remove elementalists from the game for doing heavier ranged damage than most rangers could imagine themselves doing. Rangers suck at doing damage, and people still blame them for all of hte ranged damage issues when paragons and elementalists deserve the nerf bat much more. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:71.174.22.127 (talk).

The difficulty to balance them, from a spike point of view, comes from their ranged attack. It can be more difficult for gvg monks to anticipate a spike because rangers do not need to get closer from the target they want to spike, and thus they are less clearly saying : "we are spiking x". Yseron - 90.48.1.109 21:38, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to have to agree with 75.71, preparations are not an inherent problem and can be balanced. They are actually one of the nice features of rangers. It's a pity that apply poison dominates in most balanced builds, discounting turret rangers which mostly shouldn't exist. Misery 20:06, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

rangers are for condition spreading and disruption, not for strong ranged damage. comparing them to eles is stupid. --Cursed Angel 20:47, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Umm...actually, they're not. If they were originally meant for that, Mesmers would never have existed because there would be no need for them. Right now, rangers and mesmers are almost exactly the same in terms of offensive power. The original point of rangers was to be sort of a ranged version of a warrior with slightly less DPS because it's ranged (note the word slightly). Seriously, rangers used to actually be different from mesmers when Build Wars launched, now they're just a different type of mesmer due to most players deceiving themselves into thinking that rangers should be the same as mesmers only with more RC food and less shutdown.

Make rangers ranged warriors! Don't tell me to make a paragon, that's an expansion, not core class. Core classes are more important. If it causes problems, shove the expansion profession out the door, keep the core profession. 71.174.22.127 20:50, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Raine, are we allowed to ban people from your mass balance project? :> Misery 21:01, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

There is no need to ban me, and you have no valid reason for banning me. Getting back on topic, I'm suggesting that Rangers be redesigned in general. I have had enough of the stale, boring Rangers = Mesmers metagame. I want Anet to turn the metagame upside down much more often.--The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.174.22.127 (talk).

"There is no need to ban me, and you have no valid reason for banning me."

That's not for you to decide, dude. --75.71.67.5 21:18, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

cool story bro, and sign ur damn posts... --Cursed Angel 21:23, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Signed it for him.~ Ryuu Desu [Talk | Contributions] 21:31, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't have this page watched (because it didn't exist). Now I do.

Anyhow.

There are a couple of issues, the first being the formatting. To start with, this is about preparations, which are a mechanic (status); this isn't about "ranger skills". Alternatively, you could break this up into issues about the relevant skills (though that'd be half-assed). Then, it's not in the current/proposed format; it's an essay. Move this to the appropriate place, fix the format.

Then there's the content. As the other users have said, preparations are not inherently imbalanced (rather, some of them are imbalanced based on their functionality). Though some preparations may be more effective with different bow types, this is not necessarily imbalanced because other skills are more effective with the other bow types. Yes, faster attack speed means more DPS (and even more so with damage-boosts), but for more utility-based roles (have fun landing ints with a longbow and Apply), more accurate bows or bows with longer ranges are dominant.

As far as rangers being ranged warriors, they simply aren't, nor should they be. Warriors should be warriors, rangers should be rangers. Currently, rangers excel in spreading conditions, most notably cripple and poison. Rangers also provide very strong disruption. And (currently), rangers can also do tons of damage. Warriors don't spread conditions. Warriors don't provide very strong disruption (hammer warriors are arguable, sure). Warriors do tons of damage, which is something that rangers didn't do in the past. It wasn't an issue until things like Burning Arrow happened.

Rangers are also extremely different from mesmers. To quote Auron, "The thing about Mesmers is that you can kill them whenever you want." Rangers. Don't. Fucking. Die. Sure, both classes have interrupts, but that's about where the similarities end. There are several very good reasons why Rangers are the first to go on splits/ganks and Mesmers should almost never be on splits/ganks.

As far as rspike goes, what you must understand is that any two damage skills x6 = instagib. Flare -> immolate x6 would get kills. Overload -> (some other mesmer damage skill) x6 would get kills. Rangers aren't unique at all in that. The issue there is that rangers also are immune to all damage whatsoever because of silly things like Lightning Reflexes and +30 armor against elemental damage, so they can spike you out and you can't really put any pressure on them.

All-in-all, you're wrong on several key points. You have plenty of feedback; you'd do well to adjust your suggestion accordingly. Or you could refute the arguments against it, if you believe us to be wrong. Otherwise, the suggestion will be archived or deleted. In any case, it needs to be moved and reformatted. Raine - talk 14:05, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I'll remove the page in two days if it's not fixed as prescribed. <3 Raine - talk 16:45, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to refute the arguments against it. IMO, rangers SHOULD be ranged warriors with lower DPS because they're a core class. That's what people would expect from any MMO. I'm saying that Anet should turn rangers upside down and overhaul their skills, and anyone who enjoys spreading degen and interrupts can go play a mesmer. If you look at standard MMOs, you always get a core archer or ranger class that works like a ranged warrior with less damage and defense. That's what I expected when I made my ranger 3 years ago. Now all rangers get is nerfs. If Anet wants a ranged mesmer imitation they should use paragons since those are not a core class. For the record, you cannot get rid of mesmers on demand. Furthermore, rangers are broken because they have a few blatantly overpowered skills while everything else is rubbish. Having a few broken skills and 100 trash skills does not make a profession balanced. It just means that everyone runs the same skillbar or a variant of it. I blame the balance team for doing a bad job.

My opinion

You are right about some points however note that daggers arent MENTH to constantly hit with.The main Idea should be spike run utility utility spike again utility utility things like that.Rangers also arent made for PEW PEW (thats why all pew pew rangers are broken).They are made for utility.Besides that scythes are just a broken weapon fix the scythe not the combination with the scythe Lilondra *panda* 14:56, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Agreed with the scythe part, what was Anet thinking when they made those?