ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Mesmer/Ineptitude

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Keep in mind unlike the other mesmer elite that punishes foes for using an adrenline based skill, this skill will not be able to keep up on a target foe indefinitely.William Wallace 20:44, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Or you could not buff the already insanely overpowered skill and drop the damage to like 10...50...60 and the blind duration to 1...3...4? -- Armond Warblade 16:27, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

OP and UP at the same time

To shit warriors, it's OP, to good ones like me it's UP. 130 damage isn't that high, the blind duration is shit, the recharge is too high, but to make it balanced towards both shit warriors and good warriors alike, take the damage figures from Armond's suggestion, cut the recharge drastically and give it a BSurge-like blind duration. Simple, problem solved. Owut 16:44, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Explanation for this is that shit warriors will get hit for like, 200+ from this skill because of sitting under frenzy with no situational awareness, however good ones will at least cancel. Owut 17:53, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I maintain that that's pretty much not possible under most circumstances (re: [Me], [SpNv], [HaND], etc), but if someone whose account isn't, you know, made entirely for trolling and also knows what they're talking about says otherwise I'll shut up. -- Armond Warblade 01:43, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I know what I'm talking about. Reacting to something within half a second and cancelling something in that time isn't hard, provided when you hit that button it's instant, and that's why interrupting is such a bitch, it's at least an extra 1/4 - 1/2 a second after you hit that button. Therefore, if you also watch what the fuck is going on, you won't have this shit giving you hell. This account isn't entirely for trolling, and tbh I think it's you that doesn't really know what they are on about. You say AoD and SP, along with Inept are OP. Next thing you know, you'll be saying Amity is OP since a Monk running it can avoid getting the shit kicked out of him by melees as long as they don't take any damage. Bit of /sarcasm there, but you get my point. Owut 18:41, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Hm, stop melee spike damage with a spike of your own, sounds overpowered to me. --Don Knowall 07:12, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

From a profession that can have 100 armor against two things and here comes one profession destroying it by punishing it?... It's balanced, just quit the Frenzy steroid.--ShadowFog 12:20, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

A warrior that's not frenzied is doing it wrong. If you'd like to know exactly why Frenzy is so insanely good, drop me a message on my talk. -- Armond Warblade 13:58, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Get trolled less imo. If someone tells you to frenzy less because of ineptitude, they've either never played warrior or have played it and are pulling your leg. -Auron 14:04, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually, thats why I dont give examples anymore, you guys just like to pull everything out of proportion. If you dont know how to use Frenzy and when not to trigger this, you guys are surely lost.--ShadowFog 15:25, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, cuz no competent mesmer can time Ineptitude. Srsly, this is a guaranteed 200 damage. -- NUKLEAR IIV 15:28, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

If you are peg with this... wait until its removed or until it passes(4 seconds). You dont have to worry about it in 20 seconds. What class may have trouble with this? Long time attacker like sctyhes and hammer builds which as soon as they trigger an attack skill they will activate this anyhow since attacks that are in the middle of animation cant be stopped unless interrupted.--ShadowFog 15:33, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

That's not how it works. You don't attack while hexed with this. They hex you with this when you are attacking. No warrior can dodge that. -- NUKLEAR IIV 15:43, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I cant help you guys anymore... Ive played Warrior, Assassin and Paragons...For now Ive stayed with Assassin and Paragon. Assassin being the class that attack with skill that are the fastest I can see that skill icon popping up and not triggering it, same goes for the whole Mesmer skills lineup which I suspect Nuklear, Armond and Auron are already commenting on "anti-melee skills", see you on the other Mesmer pages.--ShadowFog 15:50, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

If you truly think mesmers don't wait to see frenzy and an attack skill before using this over 90% of the time, we can't help you. -- Armond Warblade 21:40, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the contribution for the wiki. Oh yeah please head to My talk page for hate talk.--ShadowFog 21:55, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I am GvG. In me, there are sixteen players and several NPCs all using skills at the same time spread out over a broad area, and so it isn't possible to see a cast animation every time it happens if you're doing your job as a warrior. You should try playing me at a decent level of skill some time! --76.25.197.215 22:08, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

^ That. -Auron 05:29, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

^ /thread -- Armond Warblade 06:03, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

76.25.197.215, you already have a history of erratic behavior. This page is meant for skill discussion. Stop the sniping and indirect statement. If you have nothing constructive to say, dont say it at all. Keep this page for skill discussion.--ShadowFog 04:12, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

No, sorry, he's right and his point is valid. He's actually being constructive, though you might not have noticed, in that he's pointing out that warriors can't watch all eight opponents at once, much less all fifteen other players and every NPC. If field vision isn't related to skill discussion, I don't know what is. -- Armond Warblade 04:37, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

"Newflash: there are counters to everything. That doesn't necessarily mean that the counters are effective" same words from the IP from Warrior's Endurance page, this skill isnt very effective being alone yet he/she again stated:"3.One Ineptitude isn't bad. One Inteptitude, one Clumsiness, and one Wandering Eye times two mesmers is very bad. ". Knowing that a Mesmer is within earshot, you know this skills will hex one followed by another and yet you keep fighting? The Monk should have at least prep the Ws for that or the Warrior should have taken something against it."...so it isn't possible to see a cast animation every time it happens if you're doing your job as a warrior. Recall what I said:"...activate this anyhow since attacks that are in the middle of animation cant be stopped unless interrupted." yet you say:"...and so it isn't possible to see a cast animation every time it happens if you're doing your job as a warrior. " Nobody mentioned seeing cast animation anywhere, keep the flow." If you are not aware of your surroundings or the professions that surrounds you is no wonder you get killed by "two mesmers". "You should try playing me at a decent level of skill some time!" Is that directed at me? This page isnt dedicated to insinuation and grudges.--ShadowFog 05:13, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

You are raving. There's a preview button for a reason, and it's not just so you can make sure all your code works. I have more faith in your ability to think than this, Shadow. -- Armond Warblade 05:33, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

What's wrong fixing something? I have to give an excuse every time I do that? Wait... dont answer that since it doesn't have to do anything with the discussion. Get back on track and your opinions about me or other people leave it in their talk pages. Thank you.--ShadowFog 15:37, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

You have no clue about high-end PvP, where this skill was a problem. Everything you said about it has been wrong and inaccurate.

Warriors can't simply "know" when they are going to be hexed with it, and if they're under frenzy or flail, it activates too quickly for them to avoid the damage. If the enemy mesmer is bad, he'll throw ineptitude on me before I reach a target - I'll either hit escape to cancel movement, or I'll kite around a bit and pick a different target to attack when the hex falls off. However, if the mesmer has even the slightest clue, he'll wait until I've hit a few times, have built adrenaline, then he'll throw on ineptitude, clumsiness, and wandering eye, in the hopes that he'll catch my Eviscerate and Executioner's strike. Even if I do manage to cancel my attack skill to avoid damage, I've wasted all that adrenaline, and have to wait an additional 15-20 seconds to build it up again.

The anon wasn't sniping. He was pointing out what I just pointed out. You can't know what everyone is doing all at once - since you're constantly moving around and changing your camera to find prime targets to unload adrenaline on, you won't have the mesmer in your view the entire time. Half his spells don't even concern you. Sig humil, pdrain, drain enchant, etc - if I stop every time he casts a spell, he's shutting me down without even doing anything to me.

You are pretty much the only person posting off topic. Everyone's posts have been about ineptitude and how it's basically impossible to psychically counter it by not attacking, yet you deviate every post to try to claim that people are sniping and that they need to take their discussion to user talk pages. If you have no idea what you're talking about, that's fine - but if you have no clue and you try to post like you do, expect to be called out on it. You made some wrong claims about this skill and countering it, and people debunked your wrong claims with evidence and proof from Actual High-End PvP Experience™. If you can't deal with having your claims debunked, either play real PvP and get experience to back your claims, or stop posting in sections that require said experience.

If you have no problem getting everything you say debunked and proven wrong, continue posting as per normal, I guess. But try to keep it on topic next time. -Auron 00:47, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Dear ShadowFog,

Everything you have ever said regarding skill balance has been wrong and you are bad at Guild Wars. You should probably stop posting.

Find an insinuation in that. --76.25.197.215 02:05, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Auron+Armond:1 OP:0. also:"good warriors like me" that's a laugh. Thank you for making my night that much more enjoyable.--Shadowsin 03:52, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

You don't need a wall of text to describe what is written. Can't shake off a simple 4 seconds hex in the midst of battle, recharges in 20 secs that's totally inferior to Empathy? Now that's an prime example of an inexperience player.--ShadowFog 20:01, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Simple solution-Actually run a warrior build without Frenzy. Protective Spirit and Spirit Bond say O HAI. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.71.225.113 (talk).

Armond's Issue

If they took your suggestion, it'd be useless. Why do that when B-Surge is 4sec recharge, double the damage, and blinding with same energy cost? That would make NO SENSE. → uτσpıαи ♪ 18:21, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Anything that prevents a warrior from killing someone is OP.--74.61.209.219 18:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

OH WOW, NERF THE ENTIRE WATER/EARTH/PROT/TACTICS/SHADOW ARTS/CURSES/HEALING LINES. -- NUKLEAR IIV 15:38, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

I think he's(Armond) fuc... I mean kidding around. Just ignore him.--ShadowFog 12:14, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I was actually serious. I'm fine with upping the damage a bit (maybe 40...72...80, for example), but the point is to not make this skill a superspike that doesn't require any form of brain. The other thing is the blind duration is essentially irrelevant; if you want to blind someone, you use bflash or bsurge. If you're using ineptitude, you're intending to do a shitton of damage in addition to screwing their adrenaline and pressure for a bit. (It's not like the blind is ever going to last more than four or five seconds anyway, due to -40% blind sets and condition removal; the duration hit was more because you really shouldn't have a condition as powerful as blind not scale, especially at such an insane duration. That said, I could see 0...4...5 seconds or so.) -- Armond Warblade 13:56, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

You are actually serious about:"Reduce damage to 5...25...30; reduce blind duration to 0...2...3, reduce recharge to 15."? Since this will go misinterpreted yet again, make a better group.--ShadowFog 22:10, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Armond plz look outside the "warrior is the only profession that should be able to deal damage, casters are just for support and the others are gimmicks" box, a warrior can easily deal 135 damage in 1-2 attacks, there's better ways to meleehate than just blind which as u said gets removed in a few sec, and the recharge on this is terrible. It's not a spike in itself, it's a 4 sec shame for melee, avoid attacking 4 sec or deal with the consequences of being stupid, I'd say it's balanced and should stay as is. --Cursed Angel 22:41, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

1. The damage is difficult to impossible to avoid if the mesmer knows what he's doing. There are gold capes that attest to this.
2. Every time casters have been given decent damage, something exceedingly gay has resulted.
3. One Ineptitude isn't bad. One Inteptitude, one Clumsiness, and one Wandering Eye times two mesmers is very bad.

--76.25.197.215 22:44, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Don't be dumb, Cursed. You know as well as I do that mesmers only use this after the warrior frenzies, making it impossible to avoid and making the damage insane. The duration on this skill does not matter; it could be as short as one second and it would still be overpowered. You also know it takes no skill to use this (or any other ranged damage skills), while it takes plenty of skill to play a good warrior - mostly because of positioning and actually getting to your target. ANet saw when they made the game that giving ranged characters decent damage abilities would only lead to gimmicky, unbalanced, unskillful, and boring play - why they've reneged on that I don't know. -- Armond Warblade 02:27, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

IMO this suggestion is horrible and probably isn't serious, and, as such, should be archived or removed. -- Gordon Ecker 02:33, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

No. --76.25.197.215 03:09, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

If anything, the numbers need a bit of tweaking, but it was completely serious and GW without Ineptitude is better than GW with Ineptitude any day. -- Armond Warblade 06:04, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

This skill needs to be buffed to compensate for the insane melee damage being thrown around these days. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:96.233.10.51 (talk).

I think that they should nerf the damage a bit and make the blind scale, but have the blind a bit longer (something like 6...13...15 seconds. And @ Armond, it actually isn't that OP, its actually pretty balanced, i just becomes OP when you get gimmicks running 2-3 of them. Nerfing this just because of a lame gimmick is just like Smiter's Boon all over again (and seriously, with your stats, it isn't even worth normal skill status because clumsiness/wandering eye are both better). --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Crimmastermind (talk).

Gordon Ecker's issue

Would my second suggestion (not splitting the PvE and PvP versions, adjusting the blindness duration and/or recharge time to make blindness sustainable and nerfing the damage to kill the spike potential) work in PvP without killing the skill or making it overpowered? If not, I'll retract it. -- Gordon Ecker 03:14, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I completely agree with your suggestion, this is begging for a PvE skill split. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.71.230.18 (talk).

For PvE it could use some upgrade. Going against six level 24 Assassins in Eye of The North is a funny business for non-GW players. It could use an effect range.--ShadowFog 12:23, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I haven't suggested both AoE and sustainability because I'm worried that only one of the two might get implemented, and Epidemic can cheaply and easily add AoE to a sustainable condition, while Arcane Echo could not be used for sustainable blindness with Ineptitude's current blindness duration and recharge time. -- Gordon Ecker 02:12, 27 September 2008 (UTC)