ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Ritualist/Shelter

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Agreed. This skill was originally nerfed b/c it turned GvG into a turtle tug-a-war. It was fine for PvE. Bring back defensive spirit ritualists into PvE! --65.38.32.42 11:58, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Or just make it a higher level, and/or decrease the damage it takes. That way it would still be OK to take but not overpowered. As it is it just dies to quickly to be of any use anywhere. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:86.27.136.194 (talk).

IMO a fixed duration in PvP is a bad idea, as it could be abused by secondary ritualists with 0 Communing. -- Gordon Ecker 10:29, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Touche. Love the feedback keep it coming bois:)--Lancy1214 18:40, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Interesting point Gordon, I'd say go with fair duration for non-rits, while allowing rits means of increasing duration by using Spawning Power; roughly +50% duration at 8 ranks and +100% duration at 16 ranks. This has added bonus towards solving issues of that primary's lackluster Passive ability. After-all Communing are clearly meant to tie into Ritualists... just as Illusion unique to Mesmers and Death Magic domain of Necromancers. -- Falconeye

I agree on the suggestion on adding lifespan by Spawning Power, as of now this skill is pretty much useless in PvE. -- Nox Coma 12:52, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

That said, the health loss is what normally kills this, and a high SP helps to counter that. Decreasing the health loss a bit would actually indirectly make that more useful. Also knocking it down to make 3 or 4 would probably be good. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:82.3.232.209 (talk).

Yullive's discussion

IMO the problem with the suggested version is that it would be even worse than the current version of Shelter against nuker bosses like Tortureweb Dryders and Duncan the Black. Maybe the health loss could be capped. -- Gordon Ecker 06:27, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

The spirit takes 10% of the maximum hp of the ally. If the ally has 550hp, the spirit takes 55dmg. This is even less then he would take in the old version. If the teamplayer have less than 500 maximum hp, the spirit takes less dmg. As well the spirit doesn't prevent dmg (if the ally has 550hp) under 110. So the spirit doesn't aktivate on week spells. It shouldn't matter if the spirit is great against some hm-boses. Yullive 13:54, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Okay, "remaining damage" refers to the damage which isn't prevented. I misread the suggestion and thought it referred to the damage which is prevented. -- Gordon Ecker 03:03, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, its hard to explain. The idea is a product of some guys from a fan-page. I think the skill-patch would be sensefull. May u do have an idea how to explain in abtter way? Yullive 22:06, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Theme-wise, though, it makes more sense for it to suffer the damage it prevented. Maybe "whenever this Spirit prevents damage, it suffers 50% of that [prevented] damage (max. 120...72...60 damage)." Therefore if you got hit for 300 damage when you had 600 health, you would suffer only 60 (10% as per the original) and the Spirit would suffer 1/2 of 240 = 120 but for the fact that it's capped at 60 (at 15 attrib. points). So the Spirit would die quite quickly, but considering the damage it's preventing (280 in this case) it's not that bad (and it's only against PvE foes really). With a cap like this it would always prevent a minimum number of hits, like it does, so it would also be quite reliable. Though it would die a lot in PvE, in PvP you're never going to hit for much more than 100 (and that's in fairly extreme cases for a 60 armour target) in which case the Spirit would take only ~20 damage.

Your calculation is wrong. That's why "it suffers 50% of that [prevented] damage" wouldn't be the same idea and "(max. 120...72...60 damage)" isn't necessary.

The ally has 600hp. He is damaged for 300 armor ignoring dmg.
"Non-Spirit allies within its range cannot lose more than 20% maximum health from a single strike."
--> Ally only takes 120 armor ignoring dmg.
"When this Spirit prevents damage, 50% of the remaining damage will be transfered to it."
--> The 120 remaining armor ignoring dmg is splited in 2 dmg-pools.
 --> 50% of the remaining armor ignoring dmg(60 armor ignoring dmg) has the ally to take.
 --> 50% of the remaining armor ignoring dmg(60 armor ignoring dmg) has the spirit to take.

Well you see, the cap isn't necessary. Yullive 20:33, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

If the maximum duration was shorter than the recharge time, ritualists could still bring Ritual Lord to make it sustainable. A monk can keep Protective Spirit on a tank with 8 Protection Prayers and pump the remaining attribute points into Healing Prayers and Divine Favor, bringing a powerful and efficient elite such as Healer's Boon, Light of Deliverance or Word of Healing, or pump all attribute points into Protection Prayers and Divine Favor and still be able to heal with skills such as Divine Healing / Heaven's Delight, Reversal of Fortune, Spirit Bond and Zealous Benediction, either way, the monk can remove hexes without being locked into a secondary profession. Ritualists don't have any decent healing skills in Spawning Power or Communing, diverting points from Communing dramatically decreases spirit duration and durability and Restoration Magic's healing skills generally aren't competitive with those of Healing Prayers, even if Restoration Magic is maxed out at the expense of Communing and Ritual Lord is dropped. It might work in PvP, but PvE is dominated by tank & spank team builds, which means that, in order to be competitive in PvE, a profession needs to either be able to fit into tank & spank like elementalist nukers, healing and protection monks, Shadow Form tanks and Obsidian Flesh tanks, or needs to be provide a competitive alternative to tank & spank, like imbagons, Barrage/pet teams and pre-nerf ursanway teams. -- Gordon Ecker 04:04, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

"If the maximum duration was shorter than the recharge time, ritualists could still bring Ritual Lord to make it sustainable." That was the idea behind it.

The problem of PvE-versions of skills is, that they force other skills to also become splited. In my opinion it isn't necessary to look, if the spirit is as good as imba-used skills are. Laming is no benchmark. Yullive 17:14, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Darth's idea

In PvE, Communing ritualists could use something to make them competitive with protection monks, however in PvP, I suspect this skill would be severely overpowered. Pre-nerf Shelter was 10 5 60 and level 1...7...8 with 60...36...30 health loss whenever damage was prevented. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 07:27, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

What if the skill was reworked to where Shelter deducts a larger amount of damage from the damage recieved. This could happen x times...and after x times the spirit would die. I suppose this wouldn't work well with the recharge, though.-- Shew 07:30, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Like a more powerful version of Union? -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 08:16, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh my bad... I was thinking of Union :P-- Shew 17:41, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Just pushing the atributes of the spirit isn't a solution. To make this skill useful without making it imba can only happen by changen the function a bit. Yullive 18:45, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Cornflakes^^

Interesting suggestion. Has something funny. The main Problem is, that it would be a little Monk. Not a real Ritu-skill. -- Yullive 23:06, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I know about this problem ^^. In fact I try to have a new point of view as I think spirits that attack (pain, bloodsong...) are playable. The problem comes with spirits that just bring some environmental effects. So I was just thinking about a spirit that the player has to plant outside the fight. The other players should then "meet" this spirit to use its benefit (ie go near the spirit to receive a protective spirit) to make the defense buff a bit more active. I try a new way of thinking ... maybe such an idea could evolve into somethong more viable ;) Cornflakeboy 09:32, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Thats an interesting point and thats even what I liked at your suggestion. But it shouldn't be protective spirit.^^ Why not giving him the skill "Shelter"?^^ Spell Shelter: (3 seconds.) All damage you take is reduced to 0. (like Ether Prism) -- Yullive 14:07, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

I totally agree it should have a dedicated spell like what you propose, I just didn't want to create a new skill ^^. But this idea of a spell named shelter is great;). Cornflakeboy 15:34, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

well, the idea was nearby, because bloodsong, etc use attack skills with their names too.^^ -- Yullive 15:48, 21 February 2009 (UTC)