Feedback talk:User/Dark Morphon/Mending Touch

Your reasoning for this change is "I don't like rangers getting rid of conditions." Everything else is moot, especially the proclamation of causing power creep. Devs create power creep, not the skills that are already set in game. Since your reason is you dislike ranger condition removal, you need to develop justification. I don't think there is justification. Rangers spread conditions, it only makes sense for a profession to be able to counter it's own role.~>Sins WDB 15:25, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Mending Touch can be used well by other classes too. The 2 to 3 energy rangers save with expertise is mostly negatable. That being said, classes using a secondary profession to fill a role that their primary class lacks(or can't do as well) was kinda the point of secondary professions, I think.Rypofalem 18:39, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand your comment about power creep. This skill is a very obvious example of it as Rangers weren't able to remove Conditions from themselves nearly as efficient EVER before this skill was introduced. There are two reasons why this should be removed. One, it makes it impossible to stop Rangers during splits with Blind and two, not being able to remove Conditions from yourselves this efficiently promotes teamplay as it makes you more dependant on Monks. Independecy is fun and all, but in the case of Rangers it got out of hand, mainly because of this skill and Natural Stride. Therefore, they should be nerfed. Dark Morphon 14:17, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

If you are going to make Mending touch remove 1 condi before 12, don't nerf antidote signet, it's already a subpar mending touch. --Frosty 18:41, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Mending Touch is overpowered so it only makes sense to nerf Antidote Signet if I hit that skill as well. Dark Morphon 14:17, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

How is this skill OP? It's touch range. Why should blind be able to completely shutdown a ranger during a split? You think that's fair or fun? That just promotes running an ele blinder or blind spammers, which would make the game more degenerate as blinding takes no skill to pull off at all. Then you have to nerf over half of the ele's blind skills. Blinding flash and b-surge obviously already need nerfed, but steam, ash blast would need nerfed too. This would make ele blind skills insignificant in non-split situations because of how available condition removal skills are. Then you have to rebalance condition removal or leave blind insignificant for the ele, which is what would happen because rebalancing condition removal would be insane. ~>Sins WDB 19:04, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Mendingtouch is the cheapest way to remove conditions on rangers (antidote sig was buffed to match it).It certainly involved a powercreep since it helped compress alot on your bar.You are also wrong about blindspamming since blindspam just is to easy right now D/P,Bsurge and co shouldn't even exist.Blinding Flash should be the RoF of blinding.With other words the cornerstone wich you should balance around.Bflash didn't even need a nerf btw,the rest did,crazy energy management did.Lilondra 12:48, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

It's the best non-elite skill in the game at removing Conditions from yourself, overpowered enough for you? Before Nightfall, there wasn't a skill that came even close to Mending Touch's ability to deal with Conditions on oneself. You generally had to rely on Monks for that. Being able to do such a thing for yourself should have a downside like in the case of Mending Touch having to spec in Protection Prayers. A Ranger has superior mobility. Quite a lot of time has gone by if the opposing team has to send back an Elementalist. If a Ranger is splitting on his own, they shouldn't be able to be immune to Conditions. If a Ranger is splitting with, say, a Monk and a Warrior, the Elementalist shouldn't be able to defend the base on its own. Both defense and offense have powercreeped and it should be reverted. Things shouldn't be able to do a million things at the same time. Dark Morphon 12:51, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

AFAIK Draw conditions was popular aswell btw.Don't underestimate it Lilondra 12:53, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

You'll are of a different opinion than I. I'm for having a primary role with secondary roles that aren't fulfilled as well. I'm fine with professions being able to do several different things, as long as one isn't godly. You guys want it simple and balanced like it was pre-factions. I want it to stay complex and balanced, because I am annoyed by strict limits and don't find them fun. ~>Sins WDB 17:07, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Rangers can't kill NPCs effectively on splits by themselves compared to other split-oriented professions like sins, eles and mesmers anyway. I can run a flag and come back in time to weapon + wboon an npc the poor ranger was trying to kill. In other words, they sacrifice speed in clearing and offensive power, in exchange for their toolbox/defensive role. Protip: Cripshot/hex snares/dshot > mend touch. Pika Fan 17:26, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

None of what you said made the sudden immense bar compression thing go into thin air.Also either that was sarcasm (I hope so) or you are staying pinned in their base and someone else has to run flag.Lilondra 17:51, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Sins you started playing right before eotn you don't even know how factions would play Lilondra 17:53, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I am sorry, but could you try that again, this time telling us who you are talking to? It seems like you are referring to me, but you indented your comments poorly. Pika Fan 17:59, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I suck at Indenting I'll give you that.1st time I was talking to you.BA is pretty good both on stand,solo split and general split and alot of that is because it has so much bar compression.Nat stride and Mend touch are 2 of the main reasons Lilondra 18:01, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Now that I know you are talking to me, I can reply directly to you. English is a very difficult language I hear? For starters, point out where I said I would address directly or indirectly to "the sudden immense bar compression" rangers had. Next, which part of I can run a flag and come back in time to weapon + wboon an npc the poor ranger was trying to kill. has me as a flagger being pinned in base having someone else run the flag? Lastly, although I am not refuting the flexibility and versatility of BA, Cripshot is far, far more common than BA. It gets really annoying when people start arguing over mere additions to the discussion, and pin all sorts of non-existent hidden meanings to them. Pika Fan 18:07, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

My point was that Mtouch still needs a nerf.And someone else would run the flag,but my point is that the ranger's presence would still make a difference no matter what and would be hard to push out of the base without snares and shizzles.Lilondra 18:10, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Any split character that splits off into the opponent's base will be hard to push out; it's not unique to the ranger, so I don't see why you even raised that in the first place. You deal with the ranger by sending back your own ranger, it's that simple, and you can run flags happily while the two rangers play staring match. I just don't think mend touch is powerful and gamebreaking enough that it needs such a big nerf; and that applies to antidote signet, which is far weaker than mend touch already. Pika Fan 18:17, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

(R.I) I'm just defending the mend touch nerf antidote signet doesn't need one imo Lilondra 18:26, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

When I am actually not even opposing the notion of a nerf to mend touch, as opposed to the suggested nerf for mend touch. Really. I would have thought people actually read before arguing their hearts out. Pika Fan 18:30, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

FYI, lil, I started playing, as in had my own account, right before nightfall came. I am aware of its state before factions, because people I know got me into the game and played it before any expansions existed. Most games transition from simpler to more diversified and complex, not just Guild Wars. It's a trend that has to happen in order to meet the needs of the players. Otherwise you end up with a game like chess, set in its ways and stagnant. Not saying chess isn't challenging or fun, but it's not something that is going to keep everyone interested too long. ~>Sins WDB 19:15, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually if you look at the factions builds they already were alot more complex and imo sometimes more complex then these now.Also if you started playing right before nightfall how are you going to know ? I barely know (most of it I know by research lol) and I started playing at the beginning of factions and already had played with my mate before factions.Lilondra 06:50, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't completely agree with the complexity argument. The current ran builds aren't exactly complex in used strategy, they are sort of... Pewpew. I don't know about you but I wouldn't call that complex, in fact, that's what I would call simple. Dark Morphon 17:20, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

If your talking about the current spike meta then yeah it's not complex at all. Mel Shot + Crip Shot are overlooked now, RtL is on warriors due to dmg + no aftercast, ranged damage is > melee damage, AL ignoring damage is too available, and paragon's make everyone have the warrior level armor. Hexway is the only other team build that can compete. Thank god it's almost thursday. This 2 month waiting period leaves these meta's around too long. Hopefully they at least get it dealt with. ~>Sins WDB 18:15, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, the current meta sucks. I think build complexity doesn't automatically lead to strategical complexity, just like build simplicity wouldn't make the ran strategies automatically simple. It really depends on how the skills are used and as it stands, the powercreeped skills are being used quite boringly simple. Dark Morphon 09:01, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I like the idea, but I'm not sure that Antidote Signet really needs the nerf even if Touch is altered this way. Bathory talk 06:45, 21 November 2009 (UTC)