Feedback talk:User/Rose Of Kali/Snowball Dominance reward balance

Six of one, half-dozen of the other

I really don't see the point. Aren't the player prices of those three titles pretty much the same? What's the benefit of giving out sweets or alcohol in comparison to party points? There are other events (talk like a pirate day) that lean toward alcohol, and other events that lean toward sweets (easter), so I really don't think this is such a big deal. -- FreedomBound 19:17, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

And what other item is specifically farmable to this ridiculous degree? A practiced run takes about 1:30, add another minute to grab reward and rezone, and you got 5 tonics in 2.5 minutes, plus other stuff to boot. Make that double for people running 2 accounts. The influx of Snowmen is quite noticeable in busy towns, feels like wintersday never ended. That or remove the tonic reward entirely from the repeatable version. Rose Of Kali 20:06, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Alcohol and sweets drop pretty fast if you're farming, too. The speed wasn't really my point, it was that your suggestion is to substitute different rewards, so it really doesn't do anything. If you remove the tonic reward, you're still going to have people farming it, you just won't have as many people walking around looking like snowmen, instead, maybe they'll dive into their candy-man tonics, which were also from a repeatable quest, albeit during halloween. -- FreedomBound 20:20, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

I like your idea and agree with you since I find the reward of 5 Frosty Tonics to be too much. However, I don't agree with the change of reward for two reasons. First, getting Mischievous and Frosty Tonics from farming...the chances are quite low. Case in point, I farm the Raptor Nestings outside of Rata Sum and sometimes get about a tonic for every 10-20 runs. Another reason is that Wintersday Gifts are really easy to obtain due to an an NPC (not to mention two quests that take place in Secret Lair of Snowmen that give you a reasonable number of Candy Cane Shards to "buy" the Wintersday Gifts from the NPC). I would probably suggest either reducing the number of tonics to one of each kind (i.e. one mischievous and one frosty), or squeeze the said tonics into one of the rewards of the Wintersday Gifts if you want 5 Wintersday Gift reward instead (maybe about the same drop rate as a Yuletide Tonic). I wouldn't remove the 500 ebon vanguard points reward, judging by the fact that Eye of the North titles requires a lot of grinding and very time-consuming (not to mention, Ebon Vanguard is one of the hardest EotN titles to build up behind Journey of the North).--Dark Paladin X 23:59, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Do you hate snowmen or something? BtW This tonic made the price of a Terribad title Go down drastically. Actually two Briar 09:52, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Well... Ebon Vanguard Title points are OK, but Tonics... Friend told to me that he and his guild mate, ranger, farm 1 stack of Tonicks and 2 stacks of CCS' every 1,5 an hour. This is terrible. I think 5 gifts as a reward will be ok. There are loads of other items to obtain Party Animal title track such as Snowman Summoners or Ghosts-in-the-Boxes. Halloween repeatable quest "Every Bit Helps" is much longer than 'Snowball Dominance". -- Sigu 11:20, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) I just don't think that this is balanced. This may not be the best way to fix it, so discussion is welcome. I did not suggest removing any of the other rewards, like Ebon points or EXP. I also don't mind having a repeatable Wintersday quest. But yes, I do hate snowmen at this point, because there are just too many of them, considerably more than any other form. So maybe the suggestion to offer various tonics would work, too. Frosty, Mischievous, and maybe a third Yuletide. 5 Tonics guaranteed is a bit much on such a farmable quest, and people run this with dual accounts, so that's 10 tonics per run plus 4 Wintersday Gifts from the ccs. Looking at the previous comment, and having heard the same reports multiple times, that's 10 stacks of tonics over just 3 days of farming 5 hours each! That's not unreasonable timing for someone who wants to farm this. And make this 2 hours a day for the whole event week, and call it "casual." Add that to the wintersday gift rewards, and you've got more than half of the entire Party title, plus a good jump on the other two, in a single event of just 2 hours a day! And if you were to sell all the stuff at the low 150g/pt, that's at least 1,000 or more! That is broken, it should not be possible, period. I don't care if you think that a title is "Terribad" or whatever, but maxing it in a single event is not going to make it better. Asking to rebalance the quest so it can't be ran in 1:30 is probably asking too much, but it could be done by splitting the foes into 2 groups, so that they can't be "balled" up and nuked all at once with Necro Ranger or Ele skill. And this wouldn't have much effect on a "legitimate" run that's not set up to ball-and-nuke tactic. Rose Of Kali 11:46, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

okay 1) OMFG PEOPLEZ ARE FARMIN FUR TITLEZ! NARF PLOX!- That being said i think its ridiculous that you seem to beleive people doing this is a bad thing. I see no reason that making an annoying title less annoying is a bad thing, and youve provided no reasons at all for it being a bad thing. let alone logical ones. Second, Every bit helps was easily done with a duo discord team. I spent more time waiting for the Curse of Dhuum to wear off then i did killing enemies. If you had that much trouble with it then you should have done something like this. Everyone here seems to have a problem with people farming for a title. No one seems to present any reasoning whatsoever as to why. Which is why this suggestion will be totally ignored.

After edit conflict i would like to rephrase, Apparently the only reasons you can provide are A)"Herp derp i think snowmen are annoying" and B)"This just shouldnt be possible". So again. Untill you can provide a logical reason as to why it shouldnt be possible instead of pointless meme your suggestion and your arguments, will fail. --Briar 11:50, 26 January 2010 (UTC) Sorry about double post but since when has Tank and Spank not been a legitamate tactic? Tank and spank has been THE farming tactic EVERYWHERE in the game for the last couple years or so. If you can show me a farm that doesnt require tank and spank ill show you a mediocre farm. --Briar 11:57, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

This isn't tank and spank, this is die and set off a nuclear explosion. This is not balanced because this is the only opportunity to earn this many tonics in this little time, and there is no alternative, for party or sugar or drunkard, not even close to it. Do you think it's ok to earn a party title in 20 hours of farming without buying anything at all, and even getting stacks of other stuff to sell/use? I don't. "Herp derp tank spank I'm going to quote you making you sound like a retarded person don't nerf my farm" is not "presentable reasoning" either. Please provide a logical reason why this should exist other than to make a million gold title into a 20-hour farm? How about we ask ANet for a /.maxalltitles command and get this over with? Rose Of Kali 20:02, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

To the farming method, So a player found a way to KILL themself, And still win, And you have a problem with it? That in and of itself makes your argument invalid. As per the Title question, Yes. I do think it should be attainable in a 20 hour farm. Mostly because its a useless, insipid, and annoying title that takes way more effort to farm than it should. And yes I do think there should be a similar farm for sweets. And i also think that drunkard shouldnt take a week of sitting there doing nothing but double clicking on a booze point every minute. In short, If you have the endurance to sit there for 20 hours straight for the sole purpose of grinding out a useless title like party animal, More power to ya. I cant play guildwars for 20 hours straight. Specially cant do the same thing over and over and over again. More-over i think that it should be MUCH easier to get (the title that is). I think the grand majority of the entire title system needs to be reworked or made easier. Because Grind is not fun. Grind does, in fact, suck. And reducing the ammount of grind, would obviously make it suck less. --71.193.48.146 20:11, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Lol, ok. Sure, the title system is... far from optimal, let's keep it at that. THIS is not the way to fix it. And ffs, if you find it so damn useless, insipid, and annoying, why bother? Hell, ANet even fixed the Zos Shivros priest, which yielded some measly 40k faction in 24 HOURS of afk. Apparently, that was worth fixing. Hmm... I am starting to like my /.maxalltitles command idea, think I should make a page? Rose Of Kali 20:31, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

No. I think you should make a "Fix stupid titles page". And I bother because this Requires me to do this useless, annoying, and insipid title. --71.193.48.146 20:34, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Why don't you make the page you suggested? (seriously, I don't feel like it and have no ideas on how to actually fix them at this point) And you need 30 for GWAMM and there are about 50 titles possible. So none of them are "required", and GWAMM shouldn't be something that most people are "expected" to get just because they want to. All titles are annoying if you look at it that way, party is cool, you get to party for it, instead of LB runs or chest runs or annoying tries for HM masters over and over, etc. It's all in how you look at it and how impatient you are. Rose Of Kali 21:31, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

theres a maximum of 40 titles possible, actually. And your logic behind GWAMM is... Confusing... To say the least, It seems that your giving the " /shrug - Some people just wont get it. even if they do want it" attitude. Which is.... Disturbing. And yes, all titles are annoying because all titles are grind and grind is annoying. --Briar 21:39, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

What I'm saying is that GWAMM shouldn't be as easy as simply wanting it. You have to have patience and dedication to pursue it. Sure there is too much grind in titles as an overall concept, but allowing people to farm something they can sell for over a million gold in just 20 hours isn't even about titles, it's also about money. This quest is not the way to "fix" titles, so it should be in line with the rest, until all of them are fixed. The thing is, it's now too late to do it, too many people did it the hard way, so major changes are just not fair to them. GWAMM is what it is, call it the "no life title" or whatever you want, people still want it, but they shouldn't have a significantly easier time getting it than those before them. Minor changes, like account wide wisdom/treasure, updates to faction titles a while back, a possible drunkenness icon for all alcohol, those are all good. But simply making a party title take 20 hours is NOT going to fix anything, other than enticing more players to spend their wintersday doing one and only quest, because everyone else does it, and it's either a title spike or a pile of cash that otherwise takes some players a year to earn. The MPB exclusivity/grind was bad enough for wintersday, but it's also a gamble, while this is a guaranteed significant reward for little investment. So please, don't make this into a "grind sucks" discussion, this is a suggestion about putting a quest back in line with other similar things. Rose Of Kali 02:14, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

tl;dr. All i can see there is meme. Making annoying titles less annoying is never a bad thing. Honestly dont care if your stamping your feet because you spent more on a title than someone else. that is the defenition of meme. Farming is always about money. Either saving it by farming it yourself or making it by selling to someone who has the cash to buy it. This is nothing new to GW. this is nothing new to any game that has grind in it. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Briar (talk).

Apparently you did read it, so don't toss tl;dr's around. So if this is about farming, as you finally put it, please point me to another place that even comes close to making a million gold in 20 hours? This isn't even close to the amount of grind for the return in most other places in GW, this is a spike in comparison. How many ectos per hour drops in UWSC per player? How long does it take to earn 4 Armbraces? How long does it take to farm (not buy) enough party points for max title excluding this quest? And I won't stomp my feet about that, but I will stomp them for as long as it takes until they bring back RR day, I WANT FREE ZKEYZ UNTIL I MAX MY ZRANK! Then you can nerf it again. Rose Of Kali 02:41, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

I didn't read all the posts. So, this may have already been suggested. We could just make the quest chain longer. Make more quests that people need to do in order to do the Snowball Dominance one. ^^ Than 20:49, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

We have a winner

Nice work! Snowball Dominance now rewards 10 Wintersday Gifts. Plus, you get the tonics, too! (Now, if only ANet would automatically regrant the quest and rezone us...) (Personally, I got bored after doing this about 10 times, but it was fun figuring out how to reliably reduce the battle to 10-20s.)  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 17:31, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Sarcasm? Rose Of Kali 00:28, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Absolutely not! I think there's a decent chance suggestions like this influenced the rewards for Wintersday quests (which, on the whole, had values far below the effort involved). The part that bores me the most about farming is the rezoning, so I'm mostly serious about that, too. (And since when have you known me to be rudely sarcastic? I always use <sarcasm>tags</sarcasm> for those rare times when I think I'm being clever.)  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 01:39, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't take it as rude. :P It just looks like they upped the reward further, rather than re-balancing it like I suggested, so it's encouraging mindless grind farming even more. Meh. :/ I'm really against this kind of repeatable quest spamming, but it looks like that's exactly what they intended to do with it. Rose Of Kali 16:32, 2 February 2011 (UTC)