Feedback talk:User/Skye Marin/Underused Skills Update - Ritualist

Use this page to leave feedback to my Underused Skills Update suggestion. --Skye Marin 03:02, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Don't forget Lamentation! Boy that skill is crap. --smøni 02:22, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

^Oh you just read my mind. That skill is on my hit list. Oh and I'll take that new version too. Previously Unsigned 14:13, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

How's that for an improved Lamentation? --Skye Marin 03:13, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Rits have about 10 useful skills. Every other is just garbage. Koda Kumi 16:55, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Spirit Channeling

N/Rt Masochism PvP healer anyone? Recovery can take those conditions off fast too yay! Than 21:46, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Man, you really are dense. 1)Spirit Channeling is under the Spawning Power attribute 2) It's health loss not sacrifice, so Masochism wouldn't work.--Skye Marin 06:11, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Didn't see that there. Nice call. I know, I'm not a tl;nring person, and I try to change that. :D Than 00:47, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Wielder's Zeal

Divine Boon weapon spell version? This version makes e-management much more difficult then currently is, so recommend throwing in -double Spawning Power duration bonus- as passive e-management to help offset the cost of short-lived/costly weapon spells. --Falconeye 02:53, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Vengeful Weapon spamming? Rigged. Than 21:46, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Healing someone for 120 every 3 seconds is nowhere near gamebreaking. Koda Kumi 22:06, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Vengeful WEapon was just one example...there are several others that can still make this overpowered. Than 02:50, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Give me examples. Koda Kumi 09:26, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Vital Weapon with Wielder's Boon and boom boom heal. Ghostly Weapon for whatever reason someone would use. Some of the Elite Weapon spells if you use Arcane Mimicry which is another way to get another healer to help. Than 00:40, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

None of those skills are used because they are crap. Stop pretending you know something about game balance because you are not fooling anyone. Also, nobody will use 2 restoration rits so they can do what Life Sheath already does. Koda Kumi 18:42, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Lamentation

Your version of Archer's Signet + This = No kite abilities whatsoever. Too much here. Rigged. Than 21:46, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

This actually looks good, earshot range is just too large. Koda Kumi 22:05, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

You should also look at his ARcher's Signet. It's like fast -7 degen spreading. A ritualist healer on the other team would spend a fortune of energy trying to heal. Solution? Recovery. Problem? It's a spirit, hence this skill and of course as mentioned by Koda, Ear Shot is too far. Than 02:50, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Combining a skill with something that does not even exist is not a valid complaint. Koda Kumi 09:26, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't deny the "get conditions on yourself, I'll put Contagion on me and Foul Feast you. Than 00:40, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

What does that have to do with this skill? Koda Kumi 18:42, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Not much, it was just an example of the above from what some people call "Contagion Spike" (supposedly on PvXwiki). And, my main point which was derived from, was this skill could be a great spike skill, and although it would require many of the opponents to stay low, 80% seems to high and at most will receive 100+ damage if only two people are below 80%, not counting armor. Than 22:57, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

So, again, you have no point. Koda Kumi 16:42, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Point being, with other certain skills, and especially in HA KOTH, it could be an easy 100+ damage spell. Reduce the damage. That's all. Than 23:28, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

It encourages people to think about their placement. Koda Kumi 23:05, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

A lot of other skills make people think about their placement too. Than 05:21, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Ghostly Haste

Let's make it not re-appliable. We already have enchantments +20% mods. Than 21:46, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Unfortuantly, I spend 2/3rds of my time weilding item-spells to maximize the effect of my rit skills... unless there's an Enchanting Was Hero thats difficult to achive. --Falconeye 06:28, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Energetic Was Lee Sa

Going too far for a non-elite. This spell without your changes can be reapplied very quickly with Glyph of Swiftness or Glyph of Renewal. Than 21:46, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Currently this skill is useless because it takes too long to get little energy gain. Koda Kumi 22:05, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

I didn't say no to that, I said it's too much as a non-elite, especially when you combine it with some other things that I mentioned above. Than 02:50, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

A 2s CT spell that gives you around 10 energy at the end of a 20-second duration is quite bad, especially considering it is an item so you lose your weapon set bonuses during that time. At least gaining 15 energy from it is more tolerable (but still bad) Koda Kumi 09:26, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Again, I'm not disagreeing. I'm just saying don't go too far. Than 00:40, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Spirit to Flesh

Lancy and I are are under the opinion that this should ressurect a single party member in addition to earshot range (like a non-elite version of Unyeilding Aura/"We Shall Return!"). Balance-wise, you still need 3-5 seconds to precast a spirit and two skill slots, verses 1 slot for any other targetable rez. --Falconeye 02:53, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Going to have to say no again. I like it the way it is, with Life. Plus, Earshot is going very far. Than 21:46, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Preservation

...Just stand near the damn spirit. Earshot is bigger than "in the area" and that's letting a Ritualist move quite a distance without sacrificing health to heal with a Spirit Light or even allowing him to stay back and heal with your Spirit to Flesh to nearby team mates. Than 21:46, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Nobody wants to ball up near a spirit when fire magic is as strong as it is now and scythes still hit multiple targets. Koda Kumi 22:05, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

I didn't say ball up, I said stand near. Plus, ear shot is far. Casting range is ear shot (in essence) and then standing within ear shot of the spirit is a very long healing distance, especially for the amount Rits heal for. Than 02:50, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Soaring Flooms' range is also nearby. Also, nobody uses this because it is impractical to stand still when mobility is important. Koda Kumi 09:26, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

I've actually seen Searing Flames used quite a bit in several forms of PvP (haven't tried Codex yet though). Plus, I'm basically saying having a Spirit heal for 100 in ear shot and have a Rit healer help on top of that might be too far. Than 00:40, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

It is not. It is still unreliable healing. Koda Kumi 18:42, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Preservation is unreliable healing, so I do agree with the lowest HP idea but the ONLY part I'm disagreeing with is the range. Shouts can affect the people near the spirit (assuming the shouter and the spirit are right on top of each other or relevantly close) as well as certain spells. Than 22:57, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Shouts have earshot range, not nearby. Koda Kumi 16:42, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Let me rephrase that. Shouts can affect people within ear shot of the spirit, and then you have the spirit's buff to go with. Than 23:28, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Except Preservation does not buff anything. Koda Kumi 23:05, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

It heals them, and that's what I was mentioning with the shouts, is that shouts would be able to help at the same time the spirit heals. Not to mention skills such as Spirit Light heal without having to sac health at the same range. Than 05:21, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Mending Grip

You also forgot Mending Grip, as its outclassed by every other condition-removal! ^_^ --Falconeye 02:53, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

5 ¾ 3 - (Restoration Magic) - Spell. Heals for 15...79...95 Health. Removes one condition if target ally was under the effects of a weapon or holding a bundle item.

Mending Grip wasn't on your Feedback list, so you might want to add that. Plus, Mending Grip is good the way it is. Your recharge is too quick. That's asking for a 3 second recharging Restore Condition that only removes one, even Dismiss Condition doens't do that. condition. Plus, bundle item, really? Healing a flag runner with Weapon of Warding on him who is also carrying Pure was Li Ming just in case he gets crippled. Rigged. Than 21:46, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Mending Grip, and about 3/4 of the rit skill list is underpowered. It heals for a pitiful amount, which will probably be lost with just 1 autoattack. Koda Kumi 22:05, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

I added a Mending Grip suggestion, based on Faloneye's suggestion. I wanted to differentiate it from other Rit Heals, so it's a bigger heal with a bigger recharge.--Skye Marin 07:43, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

That's why I mentioned the example above with the other items and it still recharges too fast outdoing Dismiss conition. Than 02:50, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

No good flag runner brings pure was li ming. Pika Fan 03:12, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Was just an example. Another example is Blind Was Mingson! ^^ Than 04:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Bad examples don't contribute to whatever argument you are making. It just tells everyone you are commenting on something you have no clue about. Just stop, you are already behind rather than ahead. Pika Fan 05:46, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

A lot of talk coming from someone who had to be corrected on a Hero Battles statement. Anyways, back to topic: "Grip" sounds like it's for a weapon, "Hold" would sounds like a more bundle item thing and the recharge is still too quick, you'd start seeing more Mo/Rts with Mending grip instead of Dismiss condition as long as you cast a simple Weapon spell, such as Vital Weapon. Than 00:40, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Could you ident properly? Or is it too difficult to increase the number of ':' by 1 each time to add a new comment?

Back to the main thing, 1)please link me to where I was "corrected on a Hero Battles statement". I can start saying you were involved in a sex scandal but nobody will take me seriously. HB has also been removed, in case you are not aligned with reality 2)No monk will run the proposed Mending Grip because monks want stances for self-survivability or channeling for energy, and you still have to spec a large amount into resto. Also, no monk is going to dedicate 2 slots into their bar just to make one condition removal skill(which only removes one condition) good.

Do you actually PvP? Or are you just commenting for the sake of making yourself look bad? Pika Fan 04:21, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't care too much for the use of colons. The correction is in my feedback to Bring Back Hero Battles, with two people saying Hero Battles was taken out because of RR day and that not many people did it. The correction isn't made by me, and he/she did correct me as well on my same beliefs of HB being taken out.

Happy now? :) Oh, and don't tell anyone about that sex scandal.

I actually do PvP. I guess you don't remember me mentioning my Hero Battle record either. Plus, as I mentioned before, I'm just saying no to the cooldown of his mending grip, and the "holding a bundle weapon" part. We have Soothing Memories despite the fact that it doesn't remove a condition, it gives energy and a 100 point heal. Than 06:02, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

HB was taken out partly because of RR, but that discussion is out of the point. I don't appreciate you bringing in arguments that have no relation to each other.

HB is not PvP. It's asking each other to resign, and 1v1 at best. Sure, a minority plays HB the way they should, but a majority don't. It's silly to even argue against the statistics given by anet, especially they made it clear they didn't have the resources to maintain it.

I really don't care if you disagree against the proposed mending grip, but at least back up your points with some measure of logic. Nobody runs a flag runner with Pure Was Li Ming, nor with Blind Was Mingson. Nobody will run a Mo/Rt unless it's BYOB, random way in HA, random arenas(in which they will fail hard anyway since they have no proper condition removal nor a defensive stance) or a day where the best monk/rit bar consists of mending grip and a weapon spell.

If you are attempting to compare the proposed changes based on your experience with a removed format(if isn't clear enough, HB isn't there anymore), I really suggest you stop because you are just making yourself look bad. P.S. The tactics and builds used in HB are vastly different to all other parts of PvP anyway, since you clearly didn't know this fact.Pika Fan 08:40, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Let's talk about Hero Battles back on the other feedback, not this page. Oh, and please read it.

My logic was Mending Grip (this version) recharges too fast, and my logic was "grip" doesn't sound like "hold." Not entirely the best GW logic, but logical in the weapon spell vs. ashes sense. So, at that I won't comment on your HB insults but just keep it relevant to this mending grip part. Than 22:57, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

You were the one who brought in HB into the argument, please don't make it look like I was the one who did it. Judging from the way you have been arguing, or rather, have not been arguing, I don't think I will find anything that adheres to reality or logic anyway.

Because it doesn't? Dismiss doesn't require any prerequisites to remove conditions, while mending grip requires a significant setup to remove a condition. If I had to choose between a 3/4 cast condition removal, or a 2 1/2 second cast condition removal, I will always pick the former. Also, your grip and hold argument makes no sense because you need to have a grip in order to hold on to any object. In other words, according to the standard form of English everyone uses, it is equally applicable to both weapons and pots since they are all objects. Pika Fan 23:08, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

In responce to the above (slightly offtopic) responces. The current version of Clamor of Souls showed Lancy and I a -wonderful- way of increasing the flexibility of the highly conditional weapon-spell effect without increasing power; and to give even greater incentive for utilizing Item Spells at the cost of Weapon-Mods. (Casting Weapon of Warding on yourself JUST for the Wielder's Boon effect is energy-exhausting outside of life-threatening combat.) As for the recharge/cost/heal, my proposed -extreme stats- are in direct comparison to these; we believe Rit-conditional are meant to be generally better (if harder to execute) to compensate for zero-hex removal. --Falconeye 06:28, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

• Dismiss Condition -

5 ¾ 3 - (Protection Prayers) - Spell. Removes one condition. Heals for 15...63...75 if target ally is enchanted.

• Mend Body and Soul -

5 ¾ 3 - (Restoration Magic) - Spell. Heals for 20...96...115. Removes one condition for each spirit within earshot.

• Restore Condition -

5 ¾ 2 - (Protection Prayers) - Elite Spell. Removes all conditions. Removal effect: heals for 10...58...70 for each condition removed. Cannot self-target.

• Wielder's Boon -

5 ¼ 4 - (Restoration Magic) - Spell. Heals for 15...51...60. Heals for 15...63...75 more if this ally is under a weapon spell.

I didn't say you brought HB into the conversation Pika, I'm trying to get us back out of it. Plus, can't you hold Ashes in between your elbows, lid included?

Falconeye, a good statement and I agree with the extra heal (which most rits have healing spells over 100 anyways) to make up for the lack of hex removal not counting any secondary professions, but all other spells have additional support from a spirit or a weapon spell(off the top of my head) except for Soothing Memories which gives energy for holding Items, and Items you hold usually have 2 effects. Healing for holding a weapon spell and/or item seems to be non-ritualist like and as mentioned before I think it's too far since most Ritualist spells don't have the ability of saying "Heal for X while under the effects of a weapon spell or while holding a weapon." Than 19:52, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Rit heals heal for more because of the lack of divine favor, which makes things like Dismiss heal for over 100 already. You cannot straight-up compare monk and rit skills that way.

Skye's version of Mending Grip heals for some more than MboS but is far more energy intensive. Koda Kumi 20:30, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

If it's not OPed, it's fine to do it. Your arguments thus far have been "it doesn't make sense", or that it is overpowered, when I have repeatedly disproved each and every of your fallacious arguments. So what if 'most Ritualist spells don't have the ability of saying "Heal for X while under the effects of a weapon spell or while holding a weapon."'? Statistically, it is only natural for 80% or more of the rest of any profession's skills to have different functionality from any skill you can choose. Take warriors for example, they have YAA, which have effects that do not adhere to pretty much every other skill in their line, but is fine balance and logic-wise.

I suggest you check a dictionary for what is a "grip" and what is a "hold". You don't seem to understand that both terms are synonymous to each other. It pains me to argue with someone who has little understanding of the terms he/she uses. Enclosed is the link: [1].

Like I said, start making sense, or stop rambling at all. Pika Fan 22:36, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Like you said, Grip and Hold are synonymous, but they're not the same.

It's mbAs, and I've backed up my arguments even when I say they are overpowered or illogical. Mending Grip is healing the same as Dismiss Condition with a longer cooldown because it has the benefit, of a weapon spell that can last on a target, and while some weapon spells have a short duration or can be removed easily, others have a long duration which can allow Mending Grip to be cast several times. Especially since Weapon Spells can only be removed by putting another weapon spell on the target or by ending it's duration depending on the weapon spell.

What's with the YAA introduction? Ritualist skills have always had a weapon or item spell to give it some extra benefits, but combining BOTH of them, to a skill that heals for over 100, is overpowered. Additionally, certain item spells can last longer than weapon spells. Than 03:27, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Grip and Hold are different, however, they are similar enough to disprove your argument that one has to be weapon-only and the other to be item spell-only. That's my point, please do not disgress from the argument.

So? Enchantments can last quite a long time and are generally more easily applicable for dismiss condition to benefit. Weapon spells are fairly expensive even though they are unremovable, which is why enchantments are generally cheaper to apply.

Oh? Pulling out the selective memory card? You were the one who started arguing about how the skill shouldn't exist because there are no similar precedent skills, I am merely disproving that argument. Do people really lack the ability to argue properly these days?

Let's breakdown the argument thus far:

You: Mgrip is OPed because runners can hold Pure Was Li Ming and Blind Was Mingson, and people can use a long lasting weapon spell to benefit from it.

Me: Runners don't use any of those skills you have suggested.

You: Mgrip is OPed because it recharges too fast. It is like a RC that only removes 1 condition.

Me: Mgrip is balanced by the fact that it requires a significant set up to remove conditions, and the RC comparison is invalid because they are many other condition removal skills in the monk/rit line removes more than 1 condition.

You: "Grip" sounds like it should only benefit from weapon spells, "Hold" sounds like it should only benefit from item spells, hence the skill shouldn't exist.

Me: "Grip" and "Hold are synonymous, they are, according to dictionaries, similar enough to be used interchangably, or even together, hence that argument is invalid.

You: There are no other rit spells that benefit from both an item spell and a weapon spell.

Me: Statistically, given a random chosen skill, more than 80% of the skills in the same profession are going to have different mechanics. Therefore, the notion that a skill shouldn't exist because of lacking precedent skills that perform similarly does not adhere to any proper train of logic.

You: A skill that benefits from BOTH an item spell and a weapon spell is overpowered.

Me: Weapon and item spells are more expensive and less accessible respectively than enchantments in general. Casting a 10 energy weapon or item spell just to remove 1 condition is silly.

Feel free to post more embarrassing comments; I am only more than willing to disprove your fallacious arguments at every end. Pika Fan 05:07, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Nice job on the summary. Breaking it down so that people won't have to read through our long comments and the other ideas from my side.

Resilient Weapon, used or not used by runners at all, and despite it's 10 energy, it's lengthened by Spawning Power, and because it's a weapon spell, no skills from a foe will remove it. Now, I'm not going to do the math but I'm pretty sure it saves a lot of energy than casting a 5 energy spell for Dismiss Condition to do it's heal.

Significant setup? One weapon spell.

I didn't say "hold" isn't for weapon spells, I said it sounds more like it's for bundle items. I can hold a jar with an easily removable lid, or a weapon in between my elbows just fine. But a jar, is at times hard to "grip." I also didn't say there weren't many skills in the Monk or Ritualist line that removes more than one condition.

We're focusing on Ritualists here. You could have a team mate with a long lasting weapon spell on him/her, and yourself with a bundle item spell. A quick heal removing a condition for 100+ could be used on either of you, both of which the weapon spell, or the bundle item could last for a long time. Easily manageable healing? Yes. Outdoing Dismiss Condition at certain ends? Yes.

"Removing just one condition is silly." Please note that it can remove one condition, but it certainly lasts longer than some enchantments, and can't be removed as easily in comparison with Dismiss Condition.

I also stated it's illogical to bring in the "hold" with something titled "grip," but I considered it unbalanced if it was both. Than 07:08, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Resilient Weapon is a good example, I give credit for that part. However, it still does not exempt the fact that you still need to setup in some way, and most snares in the meta have lesser recharge, contains a cover(cripshot/apply), or comes in the form of hexes. 3 seconds is decent, and is comparable to dismiss. Resilient Weapon is really easily interruptable; to rely on an easily interruptable skill for your only condition removal is risky. The risk balances the reward.

If you actually read what I typed, I said: You: "Grip" sounds like it should only benefit from weapon spells, "Hold" sounds like it should only benefit from item spells, hence the skill shouldn't exist. Bundle Items=Item Spells, in case you didn't know. I didn't make a mistake because, unlike you, I actually show respect to the other parties in a debate by paying attention to what they say. Protip: Grip is not restricted to what you can hold in your palms, fyi. No matter how it sounds to you, the generally accepted proper usage of English > your opinion.

Dismiss removes 1 condition even if you are not enchanted, but if you are, there will be a nice bonus heal. You run dismiss to remove conditions off yourself on a split, or to support the RC monk at stand. You already have WoH + Patient to heal.

The proposed Mending Grip heals even if there isn't a item spell/weapon spell, but if you have one, there will be a nice bonus condition removal. Both skills are balanced because 1) You either have an unconditional heal(mending grip), or an unconditional condition removal(dismiss condition). P.S. Enchantments are really painfully easy to apply, especially in the current meta where enchantment removals aren't rampant. The only enchantment removals run are strip, rip, or rend, and people only bring 2 at most at any one time. Pika Fan 07:29, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

"I actually show respect to the other parties in a debate..." Hmmm...it seems like you've insulted me more than I have insulted you in our long discussion about Mending Grip.

I didn't say much about it's heal. It does make up for the Divine Favor that lacks in comparison with Monks, I was talking about the weapon/item part.

Resilient Weapon isn't a condition removal. It's a "if you have X or Y on you, you gain Z and A.

Another enchantment removal skill is Pain of Disenchantment for that extra 100+ damage.

It's not the way Grip or Hold sounds to me, I'm going by "how do you grip a jar?" You can "hold a weapon" and a "grip a weapon" but I've never heard of "gripping a jar." Than 23:28, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

You insult people by posting red herrings in a discussion. People take the time to explain but you refuse to read, understand and post sensibly. Feel free to disprove what I said, thanks.

I did say it is balanced because enchantments are so much more easily applied than weapons and items put together, did you not read? You do realize WoH monks have patient(4 sec recharge and 1/4 cast, lol@enchantment removals) to trigger the conditional on dismiss, if needed?

Did I ever say RW was a condition removal? This is another prime example how you are showing contempt for other people in an argument.

So? Whoever will PoD an enchantment just to prevent you from triggering dismiss? Just recast patient, and wala.

Your argument is invalid in the sense that it is still proper english, just like staffs sound more "wrong" than staves. Just because you have never heard of a perfectly legitimate way of expressing a certain sentence, does not mean it doesn't exist. Pika Fan 05:02, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Don't bother trying to argue with an idiot. He'll only take you down to his level and beat you with experience. --Skye Marin 07:44, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

"Resilient Weapon is really easily interruptable; to rely on an easily interruptable skill for your only condition removal is risky" - sounds like you were saying Resilient Weapon was the condition removal.

"Don't bother trying to argue with an idiot. He'll only take you down to his level and beat you with experience." Where did you hear this from Skye? I doubt you had the intellect to make it up yourself, because honestly I wouldn't have been able to make a quote like that either and I heard that same exact phrase from my High School history teacher.

I did read it. You're the one who does not read other articles (as mentioned way way way above).

"WoH monks have patient(4 sec recharge and 1/4 cast, lol@enchantment removals) to trigger the conditional on dismiss, if needed?" But you said "Casting a 10 energy weapon or item spell just to remove 1 condition is silly." The difference here is, Weapon spells, as acknowledged before aren't removed as easily while enchantments are, and although Patient Spirit + Dismiss Condition heals for around 200, RW will give +24 armor (30% dmg reduction) and +hp regeneration with 100 healing from the newly proposed Mending Grip, and it will last quite awhile.

Then, you can heal yourself for 100 by holding an item spell which can't be removed while enchantments such as Holy Veil that monks put on themselves can be removed easily.

I do apologize for my English, which is one of your main targets but I learned it can be staffs or staves, and that interruptable is actually spelled interruptible, interchangably is spelled interchangeably and unremovable is irremovable. No dictionary or programs used to figure that out on my side. Than 04:43, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Until you figure out why Weapon Spells and Item Spells are so much harder to use than enchantments(hint: energy cost and big risk to using), and why it is obvious that I was referring to using RW as a prerequisite for MG rather than using RW as a condition removal, I am afraid I am not going to continue bringing myself down to your level argue with you.

P.S. Not knowing the meanings of words (grip/hold) is vastly different from spelling them wrongly (speling/spelling), however, I won't expect a person of your caliber to understand the big difference. Cheers. Pika Fan 05:00, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Another day where I deal with annoying people. I didn't say they didn't have a high energy cost, I said because of the high energy cost they have the extra benefits compared to enchantments, and to balance the game that probably will be how ANet will leave it. And, I'm bringing myself down to your level to try and move you up a little. You say I don't read the article, and yet you still failed to (proven above).

If we have to go back on this whole grip/hold debate, where was it that I stated "grip and hold can't be used synonymously"? Did you read what was stated? You can get a "good grip" or a "good hold" on or of something, but the Ritualists hold their items (excluding flags). You may have to read the above about logic.

As a final note, I'll end it with my last comment entirely skill related for this skill. If you feel this needs more to talk about this skill change idea after the insults I predict (such as I'm right so it doesn't) after this post, feel free to talk about it on my Talk page. :)

The extra healing, I can see it making up for the divine favor bonus from Monks. The whole item and weapon spell part is controversial. Certain weapon spells, and certain item spells can last for a long time. Although you're removing only one condition you're keeping the benefit of the weapon spell, while as you mentioned, enchantments will be removed easily which is one of the reasons they have such a low energy cost. Ashes also have a benefit by holding them and another by dropping them. Overall this saves the Ritualist a lot of energy and worry about reapplying the weapon/item spell. It is silly to cast a weapon spell to remove one condition, but when that weapon spell can last for quite a decent period of time and be recasted, irremovable and have benefits over the entire time of the weapon spell, and then adding item spells on top of that, is in my opinion going overboard. Than 12:55, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Skill update

One or more of your skills recommended for change has recently been updated. Please consider revamping your suggestions or removing affected skills. -- FreedomBound 16:23, 26 February 2010 (UTC)