Talk:Oktoberfest

Wiki Page?

Is this notable enough to constitute its own page? Yes, the Ascalon Royal Family Masquerade Ball, Mursaat Rally and Easter Egg Hunt have their own pages, but those events have already happened and Gaile showed up, so they were notable. I think this article should be deleted, at least until the event is over or we have confirmation of Gaile appearing at it. --Santax (talk · contribs) 08:52, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Gaile is coming, or as far as I was last made aware. The concept behind the article being on wiki is to broaden the fan base and bring in more guests. Note, I am the host of both this event and the Ascalon Royal Family Masquerade Ball, and I will be maintaining this page as best I can. LordSojar 00:09, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I have said that I will try to attend this event for a short period of time. As it turns out, I'm having major construction done to my house, and I'm totally unsure if I can make it at all, but I do very much hope to be able to stop by! -- Gaile 15:39, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I missed the other two events and every other fan event in the game, but reading about them led me here, and I am now aware of this event. So I think it should stay as it's a good way to make people aware of the event before it happens, and hopefully it can happen again next year. Things like this strengthen the community and make the game more enjoyable to play. Dancing Gnome 18:59, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps instead of deleting such articles, it could be proposed to give them their own space here? Like the guild and user pages? Say: Userevent:Oktoberfest ? It would keep the articles out of the main article thing... Just a thought. DBZVelena | (Talk page) 13:56, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Worst of Luck... I'm actually going to October Fest and will be back the 21st :'(--64.180.226.217 07:30, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Uhm, PROBLEMS.......

1) Who is hosting this now? 2) Since he, Lord Sojar is not, how shall the rest of the document be reworded (in cases where it says "I will" "Myself and My Staff" etc) 3)What is the anticipated turn-out?

--24.107.9.33 21:24, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[LaZy] are now hosting this, as for how it is to be reworded. We are working on it.. as for turnout... still unknown.Keirou

The Leader of [LaZy] is now hosting the event on behalf of his alliance

Araliuns Sun (myself) will be hosting this event in lieu of Lord Sojar. Lord Sojar had been a member of LaZy, and worked closely with us in support of this this event. LaZy has been actively involved in helping raise materials and items so the event can be successful. This past weekend, Lord Sojar quit GW due to real-life issues at home. He asked that we continue to support and host the event. As such, for now I have replaced Lord Sojar's name throughout the document with my own. Additionally, the email address for donating materials and items has been updated to reflect an account provided on LaZy's domain (LaZyImperium.com).

Thanks much and please let me know if you have any questions.

- Mark

 (Araliuns Sun, Leader of The Guilds of LaZy Nation)

AraliunsSun 17:46, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Glad to see the event is in your capable hands Mark. Thanks for still making it possible for others to enjoy. LordSojar 19:41, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[LaZy] Takes Charge

Okay, so with LaZy now in charge of Oktoberfest next month, I (Kei Miyaichi) will be accompanied by Sinister Fantasy, in the final organization of this event. If you have any questions or queries feel free to contact us in game. 210.50.110.11 16:27, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

MAJOR Costume Contest Changes

The costume contest can happen whenever you want. That is because YOU will be taking screen shots of your character and sending them to SinisterFantasy1@aol.com where they will be judged by our panel of judges. This is because the event will spread across districts and the judges will be gearing up for The event and not have time to judge during it.

As such Please Let Everyone Know that this is happening. And remember to get your entries in :D

When is it?

It's getting pretty late into October. I hope they planned ahead and it won't clash with Halloween, that would be unwise. Dancing Gnome 10:32, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

It says when it will take place right on the main page. Saturday, October 20, at 4pm EST. --Scroz 19:20, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't know how I missed that. Thanks. Dancing Gnome 04:29, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Oktoberfest Line Up for Saturday, October 20th - LaZy Nation Member Video Celebrates Guild Wars and Oktoberfest

→ moved from User talk:Gaile Gray

Hello Gaile and Guild Wars Community! Get some frosted mugs and get ready to drink ale!

We hope you are ready for Oktoberfest, this Saturday October 20th, beginning at 4pm EST in the International Districts of Gunnars Hold (GWEN). It's time to celebrate Fall and embellish ourselves in ale! The members of LaZy Nation have been very busy preparing for what we hope will be an fun event for the community. We have over 50 members dedicated to preparations and execution of the event along with hundreds more from our guilds who will be helping with the party!

To help get everyone in the spirit; the members of LaZy have prepared a video introducing Oktoberfest and themselves to you Gaile, and the members of the community. We are very excited about hosting Oktoberfest and wanted to introduce the event, and ourselves, to the community. The Oktorbest Video can be viewed here: LaZy Members Prepare to Host Oktoberfest Note: it may take several seconds for the video to load and play, the video will last approximately 15 minutes.

We invite all the members of ANET who may have an itch to drink some ale this Saturday! Please pass along our thanks to each of them for helping make such a fantastic game. In as much, we appreciate all the hard work all of them put into Guild Wars.

Cheers from your friends at LaZy Nation! AraliunsSun 13:34, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

_ _ _ _ _

Here is a run-down for the event - to help players anticipate what will happen:

There will be 10 teams of 5 LaZy staff members coordinating activites - one team per district for a total of 10 districts. Within each of these teams, of the 5 staff members there will be 2 Ale Givers, 2 Prize Awarders, 1 Event Promoter/Leader. Ale Giver role: This member is in charge of passing out at random ale and sweets. This member must note who he has given ale by using the recent trade partners list. Prize Awarder role: This member is in charge of handing out prizes for the winners of events within the district. Event Promoter role: This member is to announce and run the events. This member must know the rules of an event prior to it taking place. This member must be a fast typer as well as a great speller. This member will be doing majority of the talking to the district.

Events for each district:

• Quiz Questions (These come in 3 Different categories):

• A). Groupers (A three part question will be asked consisting of NUMERICAL ONLY answers. Your answer must be typed with ALL THREE numbers in the same line. [EXAMPLE: What is 2+2, 8+7, 4+4? Answer = 4, 15, 8]) - The first person to have the correct answer will be the winner.
• B). Jeopardy (3-4 Topics will be given. A random person from the crowd will be chosen to select one of the topics. A phrase will be stated, and you must answer in the form of a question [EXAMPLE: Statement: “The endgame Boss of Nightfall.” Answer= “Who is Abaddon?”])

NOTE: You must have a question mark (?) at the end of your question based answer, and you must use correct English ((NOT What is Abaddon? WHO is Abaddon? is the correct form. ))

• C). Bullets (Fast paced single answer questions, first to answer wins)

• The Oktoberfest Scavenger Hunt

A riddle that will be shared with attendeeds at the start of the event. This riddle will need to be solved in order for the people to know what collect and turn in for their reward. They will whisper a selected person with "The answer to the riddle is: " and show you what they have collected for the prize. The first 4 to do this wins.

• Title Wars

Rather simple one, but highly effective contest. A specific title track will be called for. The highest ranked individual will receive a random prize. In the case of a tie, we will have a Rock, Paper, Scissors showdown.

• Form Wars!

While the title of this event may come across sounding like some kind of Polymock or Pokemon contest, it is not. This event will be group based. You will need to form into groups of 8 people. A theme will be given, and each group of 8 must form into a design relating to that theme. [EXAMPLE: Valentine’s Day, your group forms a dancing heart] Each District Head will then judge each formation, awarding the winning formation group a prize. Each member of the group will receive the same prize.

The following will be a brief guideline of how the event will take place:

Members of LaZy will be fanned across the game, explaining whats going on to the players; explain what Oktoberfest is all about, etc..

"Oktoberfest is a time of year that we celebrate the fall. It's a time at the end of the summer when leaves are changing color and the weather has changed. A time when the harvest season is over and farmers can rest, relax, and prepare for a long winter. The landscape is beautiful, the food is delicious, and the children are laughing while they dream of the holidays. But most important of all... its a time that alcohol is running through our veins! It is free flowing! So thus begins Oktoberfest."

LaZy Teams for the district will assemble in Gunners Hold. Prizes and items will be handed to these team leaders in each district. Below is listed how these items should be divided. The best place to stand for your team is going to be up by the Polymock npc in the town. Here's the basic outline of which event comes when and what prizes are given the winners:

Events (In order) Prizes Easy Math Questions 15 Greens (1 Each) Title Wars 20 Ale Each Trivia Questions 15 Greens (1 Each) Form Wars 10 Ale, 2 Transmogrifier Tonics, 2 Snowman Summoners,& 5 Sparklers Each Jeapardy Questions 5 Shampaign Poppers, 1 Cupcake, & 2 Yultide Tonics Each Scavanger Hunt Perfect Salvage Kit, 2 Peppermint CC's, & 5 Wintergreen CC's Each Costume Contest Perfect Modded Req 9 Fellblade HP +30 & 20/20 Sundering

Breakout:

• 15 - Easy Math Questions
• 15 - Jeapardy Questions
• 15 - Trivia Questions
• 1 - Scavanger hunt
• 20 - Title Wars
• 8 - Form Wars

Each District Leader will receive the following:

• 10 Peppermint CC's
• 25 Wintergreen CC's
• 4 Perfect Salvage Kits
• 115 Shampaign Poppers
• 2,500 Ale - Random Giveaways
• 500 Ale - prizes
• 62 Bottle Rockets
• 21 Ghosts in the Boxes
• 24 Transmorgrifier Tonics
• 46 Snowman Summoners
• 36 Yultide Tonics
• 17 Cupcakes
• 34 Squash Stuffs
• 55 Sparklers
• 30 Random Greens

Total Prizes Given Out: 641 Prizes

• Questions - 15 of Each Catagory Per District = 450
• Costume Contest = 1
• Scavenger Hunt - 4 per district = 40
• Title Wars - 10 = 100 Prizes
• Form wars - 1 Category Per District = 80 Prizes

Hello. While I appreciate that you would like to promote this event, and while we are very happy that it will be held and are in total support player- and guild-created events of this sort, I cannot host this sort of content on my personal talk page. I have placed a redirect to this page. Thank you for understanding. -- Gaile 15:34, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

And of course I forgot to say that I think things are coming together very well, and I hope that you'll get even more player support in the coming days! -- Gaile 15:39, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Gaile! I know you have a house renovation project underway. Hope that is going well. I had my home's exterior remodelled this summer and new roof. So I know it requires your attention. Hope it is going well for you. Thank you for moving this. I was not sure where to put it exactly. To the extent this may be "large" I hope there is someone who can spot check behavior in chat. That is my only concern at this point. Otherwise, have a great weekend! - Mark AraliunsSun 17:22, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Ta LaZy :) — Skuld 22:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Update

I see there is a thanks that has been added but the article is still written as if the event is yet to happen. Dancing Gnome 08:25, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I'll work on updating it to reflect it was a past event. Scroz 19:48, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Deletion

Please do not drag the article on Oktoberfest with your issues about shock warrior getting deleted. This was a player-sponsored event that occurred in the game and has every right to stay on the wiki, while builds are not allowed on the wiki at all. Scroz 21:53, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Although I won't re-instate the deletion-tag, I think that what Skuld did was perfectly legitimate. It was not vandalism, and in accordance with GWW:DELETE. But just continue this discussion on Guild Wars Wiki_talk:Article retention#Deletion of builds. --  (CoRrRan / talk) 23:02, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

I love how the members of LaZy keep changing the page to benefit themselves just because they have Cinco de Mayo this weekend. You did not plan Oktoberfest, a previous member of the guild did. If you look up on this discussion page you'll even see it was planned by Sinister Fantasy and Kei Miyaichi. Stop changing the page to try and make your alliance look better.

please check the history of the article before you start spreading falsehoods. Now onto a few points:

Firstly, The page originally read Araliuns Sun on those 2 spots you keep editing (that edit was made by Mel herself at the time.) this only changed when some random IP's decided to vandalise the page and add Mel's name. This was then later Corrected by Araliun himself to the more correct reading that it is now, reflecting the team effort which was Oktoberfest.

Secondly, how does reverting the page to what it says at the moment make lazy look any better?

Thirdly. as Senior Officer in LaZy:Knights of Aralia, I was involved with the planning and co-ordination of Oktoberfest and while it is true that both Sinister and Kei were essential parts in that organization of the event, they were by no means the key people in the structure of the event, as it took team work on all of the LaZy members involved, to make it a success.

Fourthly, unless you truly understand the history of the event and the inner workings of the planning of the event, please don't take it on yourself to adapt the page. This was a LaZy run event and as such any part of the article about management and structure is to LaZy to edit, not you, and ultimately Araliuns Sun is the Alliance Leader of LaZy and thus, as long as all the content is factual, he gets final say on the content of the page.

Finally, as the page stands it is correct. I was actually involved in the organization and structure of the event itself, so please understand I'm infinitely more qualified to vouch for the validity of the page than you are.

So in closing please stop editing a portion of the page which you seem to have little to no understanding of. -- Salome 19:04, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Salome, while I appreciate that this page has personal meaning for you and other people who helped with this event, I must refute your fourth point. The GWW community has final say on the content of the page, as with any page outside the Guild: or User: namespaces. - Tanetris 19:19, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Tentris I do agree with you, but there are certain things the wider community can not know the facts of and one of these is the inner workings and organization of the event, as that was contained within LaZy itself at the time. So although the wider community can adapt things which can be objectively ascertained by a none LaZy member, things like organization structure and other such information really is for LaZy alone to stipulate, as no one else can truly know the inner workings of the event at that time. I phrased what I said poorly but the essence of the fouth point was that their are certain parts of the article that only a LaZy member can give a proper account of and that these shouldnt be left to others to fill in. -- Salome 19:29, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) While I do not know or care about the internal politics of LaZy or any other guild/alliance, this event has been touted as a project of LaZy since before it took place. I was present at the event myself, and I remember the people asking questions and handing out alcohol making it clear it was a LaZy event. Sinister Fantasy and Kei Miyaichi (or at least people claiming to be them) both made it clear on the wiki at the time that they were not working independently but on behalf of LaZy. Whether or not Sinister Fantasy, Kei Miyaichi, and/or any other people participating in hosting this event are still affiliated with that alliance, they were at the time, they worked with their fellow allies for the event, and the name was used in the advertising at the time. It would be disingenuous to gloss over that connection after the fact. - Tanetris 19:11, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

This is seriously ridiculous. Why is a page repeatedly getting changed when the event was completed months ago. Everyone knows that I planned the event with the help of Kei Miyaichi. It was co-ordinated by me, Mark specifically put me in charge of planning this event. Trying to suddenly take credit for it now because your alliance is hosting another event is extremely rude. You can ask Royal Mage Cami who also helped and he can tell you who did the planning and put in all of the time. I know you want to stamp everything with LaZy and put your name everywhere but you can't change the facts to fit your current situation, it's not fair to the people who worked hard to make this event happen. While Mark may have put you in charge of taking care of the LaZy guild pages that does not give you the right to change pages from events which people put their time and effort into. I don't recall you being in any of my planning meetings on ventrilo, Mark wasn't even in them. The entries for the costume contest etc. were all sent to my personal email address, all of the documents, questions, are all on my HD if you need verification. The page is now edited correctly so maybe all of you can be happy. Sinister Fantasy 20:21, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Let me reemphasize what Tanetris has already stated. This is neither a guild page, nor a user page. As such, no one has rights to this pages content except the community, regardless of your role or what you think other editors motives are (AGF!). Revert-warring is unacceptable. Talk it out here, and get other members of the community that are aware of the event to give input. There is no ownership of articles. Mohnzh say what? 21:06, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) Please note that no credit has been taken away from you since you last editted the page back in October. At that point the initial line said it was hosted by Araliuns Sun, which has since been expanded to include LaZy in general. Other references in the article to you have not been removed, nor is anyone trying to remove them. All Salome has done is revert very recent (this month) changes that he believed were inappropriate. If you feel that the article as it stands now does not accurately reflect what happened, could you please explain further here? Are you claiming the rest of LaZy was not involved at all at the time, or that their role(s) was/were insignificant? If so, why now rather than back in October? And yes, as Mohnzh says, please discuss the problem so that we can come to a consensus rather than revert warring. - Tanetris 21:10, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd be happy if it was put back to how it was months ago. The planning of the event was passed onto myself after Lord Sojar had a situation arise that prevented him from following through on the event. The planning for this event consisted of a very small group of members who all worked very hard for two and a half months. LaZy as a whole was not responsible for the planning, nor did they even come up with the event idea. The only reason the page keeps getting changed recently is because they are holding an event this weekend and have a link to the Oktoberfest wiki page on their website. I can understand their desire to promote themselves but this is not a guild page and the event was certainly not coordinated by "lots of members." Sinister Fantasy 21:20, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the previous statement. Since a lot of water can run under the bridge with time, i think we should go to the last right revision that is closest to the event realization, because that is where most of the uncontested information can be found, and that is 467054. Note that Sinester Fantasy's claims started coming only in december, 2 months after the event had finished.--Fighterdoken 21:39, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) If you don't mind, I have a few more questions for clarification. Were you solely responsible for the planning and execution of the event? In particular, the name Kei Miyaichi has come up a lot, as well as Araliuns Sun, both back then and now. If they were involved, to what degree?

You seem to be saying that the event had no connections to LaZy at all, yet your own edits back in September and October suggested that you were helping with the event on behalf of LaZy at the time. Could you clarify this? What would you say the rest of LaZy did, if anything, to help with the event?

Based on that and what others have already said and the old version of the page, I'll try to come up with a version that gives fair credit, and you all can tell me if it's perfect, horrible, or what, okay? If it's horrible, we can go back to the old version Fighterdoken has suggested. - Tanetris 21:43, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I was responsible for all of the in game planning and coordination of the event. Kei Miyaichi was in charge of all of the postings and advertising out side of the game on fansites etc. Araliuns Sun's name is just there because he is the leader of LaZy, although he did not take part in the planning of the event. The event was catered by LaZy meaning that the members donated ale, greens, and cold to support the event. Donations were also received by members of the Guild Wars community. Most of the people who helped with the planning and the ale drive are no longer affiliated with LaZy. The entire planning of the event consisted of three people planning the event, myself and 2 helpers, three people handling the ale drive, and Kei Miyaichi handling fansites. I can provide the IGN's of the 5 unnamed people that helped but I don't want to drag them into this if I can avoid it. Sinister Fantasy 22:06, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

But even so, as of October 21 last year (acording to rev.456476) you had no problem with the page claiming that the event was hosted and coordinated by Araliuns Sun, and catered by the guild. I am not sure what happened between October and December that made you change your mind, but personal business between those implicated in the development of an event and the documentation of such have nothing to do with the wiki. C.H.events are to be documented from the point of view of the time they were realized, and not from what is true 2 months or 6 months later.--Fighterdoken 22:12, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Like I said I'd be happy if they would have just left it alone. The recent changes that keep occurring by someone who wasn't even involved is what's bothering me. There's no need to change the page repeatedly months after the event was over. Sinister Fantasy 22:23, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Sinister. I am disappointed by your post in this instance. You are aware that although you and Kei were in the organizational board, you did not host the event yourself. The drive for goods was a LaZy thing and many lazy members dedicated their time and effort to farm for the event and then to help with the event itself. I myself was a district organizer along with Aragon Zar. The original organiser left LaZy and then it got assigned to you and Kei to help sort out, but without the rest of LaZy the event would have got nowhere as you and Kei would not and could not A) gather all the things you needed and B) organize all the separate districts. If I remember correctly during the event itself, you briefly jumped into our ventrillo channel and then jumped right back out while taking a supervisory role, but are you honestly trying to claim credit for all the hard work put into this event by many members of LaZy? KoA itself donated over 300k's worth of stuff not to mention a sizable chunk of Ale to the event as did all the other LaZy guilds and you trying to claim credit for it is a ridiculous notion. The only reason this event even worked is cause mark endorsed it, otherwise you would not have gained the support of the rest of LaZy and without that you wouldn't have gained the required prizes to give out on the day and you wouldn't have had the aid of around 30 people who volunteered their time on the day to conduct the quiz and to manage the districts (which included myself and alot of my friends in LaZy who are still in the alliance). Trying to claim that you and Kei are solely responsible for it, is insulting to all those in LaZy who donated their time, effort and materials to this event, as believe me Sinister, we did not donate our time for you, we donated it for the community and for LaZy. In short, it is a shame that your relationship with LaZy ended in such a bad way, but do you honestly think trying to claim credit for the work of an alliance is a healthy way of moving on? Also just to answer your last post: I have not been changing the post months after, i have been reverting it to what it was before, and on top of that ,before Mark changed it to be more inclusive of all the members of LaZy, it only assigned credit to Mark himself. It is only recently that people have started attempting to assign all credit purely to you and it is rather annoying as its incorrect. -- Salome 22:28, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Okay, here's my suggestion:

• We leave the initial line that it was hosted by the guilds of LaZy as it stands, perhaps adding that it was initially conceived by LordSojar. Hosting could best be considered as referring to actually being in the districts, asking questions and handing out drinks, which as I recall was quite a number of people, as there were a lot of districts at the time. Whether or not all or even most of these people are still part of LaZy, they were at the time, and it is the best way to collectively refer to them.
• Change the "Coordinated by" line to "Primary Coordinator(s): Sinister Fantasy (and the names of the other people specifically involved in the coordinaton that you mentioned)
• Add to the "Catered by" line "and generous donations from the Guild Wars community".

Would that be satisfactory, Sinister Fantasy, Salome, and anyone else watching this conversation who cares? - Tanetris 22:33, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Sounds fair enough to me, I'll get in touch with Mark (Araliuns Sun) and find out what he thinks, as i think he should have some input on this. -- Salome 22:37, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Listen; here is the bottom line. Lord Sojar conceived the idea and brought it to myself and LaZy. I asked Sinister Fantasy to coordinate and lead the event along with a committee of others from LaZy. The members of LaZy (50 members) volunteered the time and services to actually conduct the event; not to mention all of our members who donated from their own inventories to come up with ALL the prize packages, materials, and ale. So if Lord Sojar, Sinister Fantasy and the members of The Guilds of LaZy Nation are all mentioned then I am fine with that. Let it be noted that Sinister Fantasy has not been a member of the LaZy community for several months. The COMMUNITY of The Guilds of LaZy Nation hosted Oktoberfest. Araliuns sun 22:45, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

There were donations from the community outside of the LaZy alliance, LaZy didn't come up with ALL of the prizes. We had several large donations from random players, but ya other then that Mark's right, we did have 50 people assigned to districts :) Sinister Fantasy 22:50, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

90% of the materials were from LaZy, 10% from the global community. The initial concern here is that the WIKI was changed AFTER the event was held. The initial creation of the posting was made by Lord Sojar. I edited the page with his permission to assume LaZy's ownership of the event BEFORE it was held. AFTER the EVENT was held in October 2007, someone changed the document. That is what this discussion is about. Who changed the document AFTER the event was held? This spring, we noted the page had been changed at some point and we moved to revert it back. Regardless; I am fine if you agree to the following: Conceived by Lord Sojar, Coorindated by Sinister Fantasy and the other 5 names from LaZy who were on the committee, Hosted by The Guilds of LaZy Nation and let this pettiness be closed. Araliuns sun 22:59, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't know the other 5 names, as I'm an utterly uninvolved 3rd party, so one of you guys is going to have to add them. - Tanetris 23:11, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I'll do it and thanks again Tanetris, and on behalf of LaZy, I would like to apologise for this argument on the wiki. It truly is a shame it came to this. -- Salome 23:16, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, thank you SYSOPS for getting involved. You truly are the gatekeepers of our WIKI Community and cases such as this you are called upon. I noted something interesting; the document posted at the time cannot be changed 6 months later to reflect a change (such as the case here where the event was held in October of last year). Clearly; that should be precedence for future cases where "someone" tries to make a change in order to change history. Thank you again. Araliuns sun 23:27, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Salome you left out the two people who helped with the Ale drive working with Cpt Draken. See this is why people who weren't involved shouldn't be editing the page, and it shouldn't be edited months later. 70.160.86.154 13:00, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm getting rather bored of this petty discussion. I have said REPEATEDLY now that I helped run a district with Aragon Zar (If you don't know who that is, well then really you shouldn't be posting corrections to me about the inner workings of LaZy) and thus i was involved in the event. As for Cpt Drakens helpers. Please note it says Primary co-ordinators. Those 5 were the primary ones, any peeps he had to help him in this, although appreciated, still don't count as primaries. Thus could you, and i mean this in the nicest possible way, shush. -- Salome 13:05, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

There were 7 primary coordinators as I had already stated. Yes I know who Aragon Zar is and no she did not help plan the event so I don't know why you keep mentioning her. No, I'm not going to shush because you have no idea who did what and you were not closely involved with the planning. Like I said, this is NOT one of your guild pages and you have no right to edit the page with incorrect information simply because you have a tag at the end of your name that says LaZy. I could care less of your current "inner workings of LaZy" that has nothing to do with the past event and who was coordinating it, and the fact that months later you find it necessary to suddenly change the page to fit your needs. You didn't help do any of the coordinating so why is it you are the one doing the editing? Sinister Fantasy 13:32, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Just for your info Sinister Fantasy, I just went through the history from before the event and the only people making changes were IPs, other people including Salome were simply reverting those changes. If you want to check feel free to go through the history. --Kakarot 13:46, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm referring to his current editing and the previous recent changes made by members of his alliance. Sinister Fantasy 13:56, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Mel, once again I'm sorry that you were kicked from LaZy and now for some reason wish to drag that drama onto the wiki. I also find it laughable that you are now trying to tout being the defender of accuracy, when beforehand you were reverting the page to solely stating you hosted and organized the page all by yourself, which you yourself have already said wasn't the case and wasn't even close. If you would learn to perhaps sign in before changing pages, maybe I would then know who I am talking to beforehand and not have to check if the person was/is even in LaZy by checking if they know notable LaZy members like Aragon Zar. However in short Mel, I do not wish to get involved in what ever your current personal drama is and I'm sure the wiki community doesn't either. Also I am the one editing the page as I am one of the more active wiki users within the LaZy alliance, so it is easier for me to keep an eye on these pages than others within the alliance. Anyway according to Mike (Dutchess) this is the main committee of 5 people. I will check with Ian and Ben (2 more primary coordinators) tonight if they would like me to add more names, if they don't, the page will stay as is and I shall ensure that as you seem have some issue with my watching the page for inaccurate edits, that either Mike, Ben or Ian reverts any future inaccuracies or ego trips added to the page. I would also like to take this opportunity to point you to the following qoute:
"On behalf of the guilds of LaZy Nation I would like to personally thank all of you who attended Oktoberfest. Oktoberfest would not have been such an enormous success without the support of the Guild Wars community. I also want to extend my personal congratulations to the members of LaZy who helped plan and facilitate Oktoberfest, this would not have been possible without your dedication. --Sinister Fantasy"
So which is it, either we helped plan and facilitate or we didn't Mel? So either you were lying then or are doing so now. Also please stop trying to say that it is LaZy changing the page, we are simply trying to maintain the page as is. Anyone who knows how to use the 'history' tab can see that it is random Ip's who have been changing it in recent months, except for one edit by Mark to share credit from himself to everyone in LaZy which honestly, as it was his name used, he had a right to do.
In conclusion Mel, I honestly think it is time for you to deal with the issues you have with LaZy and move on in a more healthy and progressive direction than trying to retroactively change history to suit yourself. We bear no ill will to you in LaZy Mel, it's a shame you can't show us the same courtesy. If you wish to continue this diatribe however maybe you should take it to either Mark's or my user page and thus we can disentangle the rest of the wiki community from a discussion which quite clearly is just about a wee vendetta you have. Here's hoping you work through your issues. Warmest regards -- Salome 14:07, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

LMAO nice :) I wasn't kicked, I left. All the same though, you nor your alliance members should be editing a page months later. As for your claim to be maintaining, if you're going to edit the page it should have the correct information don't ya think? Five out of the seven people who helped are no longer in LaZy. If you or anyone else is going to update the page it should be accurate information and give credit where it's due. I don't think accuracy is too much to ask for. I do appreciate your couple hours of help running a district, as I'm sure the players who attended also appreciate your help. As for any vendetta I am supposed to have against the LaZy alliance, I think you better check with some of the leadership and you will see that I continue to support your efforts at hosting community events by making donations to your alliance. If I had a vendetta I don't think you would have my continued support. That's a nice ramble though, personal attacks ftw. Sinister Fantasy 14:18, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Sinister Fantasy, if there are two more people you feel it's important to mention, by all means, add their names and let's be done with this. This whole discussion has been entirely too hostile on both sides from the start, and 7 names instead of 5 is certainly nothing to quibble over. - Tanetris 17:37, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Agreed with Tanetris. -- Salome 22:53, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

As far as I know, (seeing as though I was helping Lord Sojar with the wiki page. After he left, Sinsiter Fantasy and myself, were given instruction by Araliuns to word the page as we did. As stated there are atleast 50ppl who worked the event on the day, more then 1000 Contributors (Within and Outside of LaZy), and more people working behind the scences (among the GM's* and ASO's at the time). *GM is Guild Manager not Game Moderator. Kei Miyaichi 13:15, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

namespace

This article is out of place in the normal namespace (and this goes for the other handful of player event articles as well). Apart from the issues of notability and sourcing, the above 2 pages full of text show an obvious drawback: The very last thing a wiki needs is attribution of (and quarrels about) credit on article pages. If there is a clear organiser, then this article should be in his/her/its user/guild namespace. Otherwise, there should be no credit at all on the page. --Xeeron 13:46, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Xeeron credit for the page isn't what was being argued about, credit for the event was. I don't think its the same thing. Although personally I do agree in that Guild organised events, like oktoberfest and other such events, should be attached to the relevant Guild's namespace as imho it makes more sense for it to work that way. -- Salome 20:05, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. Player-/guild-organized public events are not solely nor primarily of interest to that player/guild, nor to people who necessarily have anything to do with that player/guild. Aside from issues of notability (I'll come back to this), I don't see a benefit to relegating such pages to the Guild: and User: namespaces, and I do see drawbacks. Users that would otherwise be interested in these events, either upcoming or past, are much less likely to find them outside the main namespace. Consider also that this same sort of argument could pop up if the article was at Guild:The Imperium Of Lazy Nation/Oktoberfest or User:Sinister Fantasy/Oktoberfest or even User:LordSojar/Oktoberfest, except there would be move-warring instead of regular revert-warring. As for having credit for the event on the page, I'd consider the people behind such an event a valid part of documenting that event, and useful for seeing if new events that may be looking for donations and/or volunteers are run by people who have proven in the past to be on the up-and-up. The argument above, while it was somewhat out of hand, was not the end of the wiki as we know it, and has been the exception rather than the rule for such pages.

The only concern I have is separating notable player-/guild-organized events from non-notable ones. As there's no fixed and definitive line for this, they have been and I'm sure will continue to be taken on a case-by-case basis. I don't see a better way of handling that, and it seems to be working well enough so far. Of course, there's always GWW:CONTENT if you care to start a larger discussion on this subject, but personally I'm satisfied with the current status quo. - Tanetris 21:08, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Current status quo is the better route than what was proposed imo. Araliuns sun 22:00, 2 May 2008 (UTC)