User talk:Great Darkwolf/Archive2

Box Gankage

Don't mind it. Amused that someone found it. Didn't even put a color on that one. info-background-color=#7DD2F5, logo-background-color=black or brown or darkgrey would probably work for that. First is the lightest blue from the metroid jello, the latter is cause they live in space / caves. :) --Star Weaver 20:42, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Ha, I've had the thing for a while =D --Wolf 20:57, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

HTML Noob Needs Help

Need a bit of help here, anyone know how to center a peice of text or image? --Wolf 01:31, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

For text use text-align="center", for an image just put |center after the image name inside the brackets [[Image:Image name.jpg|center]]-- Wyn 01:36, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

KK, got it, thanks a bunch --Wolf 01:37, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Bah, in my youth we didn't have all these mumbo-jumbo of span tags... we could center things without problems using <center> </center>.--Fighterdoken 01:45, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

ROFL @ the doddering Fighterdoken. I believe that still works as well, but get with the times! -- Wyn 02:27, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

His approach actualy ended up working better for some odd reason. --Wolf 02:40, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

They're not bad

They're just cheesy as hell. They try to go for an epic feel and sound and just turn out to be cheesy really. I prefer their older stuff, before TtFaF. For an example of no cheese, look at From Almost The End, they're a local group who are actually really good. Napalm Flame 20:58, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Local where? Also, I liek anything of theirs thats not TtFaF, as it has been ruined by every noob that's even heard of GH3. It's not even close to one of their best songs. I need to get ahold of more of their old stuff, haven't heard much of it, but fromw hat I've heard, I like it. They also have a new album comming out sometime soon. --Wolf 21:02, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Local to me, they're based in Southend, Essex. They're actually really good. Napalm Flame 16:35, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

TtFaF......i take it you are talking about Dragonforce? I havent heard alot of them, but i do agree that TtFaF gets old after a while. They arent bad.--Raph Talky 01:08, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Yup, Dragonforce. You heard Operation Ground and Pound, Revolution Deathsquad, or Cry for Eternity Raph? --Wolf 01:10, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

hmmm, they sound familar.....i havent listen to em in a while, i think i should get caught up--Raph Talky 01:12, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

From the same album as TtFaF, Inhuman Rampage. I laugh when people don't know/think there isn't a the before Fire, or think there is one after Flames. --Wolf 01:15, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

heh, kindav like how i laugh when people think Lynard Skynard is one guy :P--Raph Talky 01:19, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, I did the first time I had heard of them, then I was quickly corrected, but yeah, makes me laugh too. --Wolf 02:08, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Skynard...too bad about that plane crash, they wouldve been huge--Raph Talky 14:08, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Plane crash? --Wolf 14:09, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

a few members of Skynard died in a plane crash in one of their later tours, the "Tour of the Survivors" i think. Van Zant, Gaines, One of the backup singers, and someone else died. It killed their career--Raph Talky 14:21, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Ouch, that really sucks..... --Wolf 14:28, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

i know, they probably would have made it huge, like the british invasion bands did. Their songs, according to many, rivaled Styx, they even managed to tie in popular choice with Stairway, STAIRWAY!

NO STAIRWAY! lolz Stairway to Heaven isn't even that good of a song. Almost anyone that knows how to play guitar reasonalby well can play it. A friend of mine can play it perfectly, and he just started playing about a year ago, and doesn't practice much. Also, look at the irony in that they died durring their "Tour of the Survivors". --Wolf 14:33, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Stairway sux. Tbh, nowadays rock and punk sucks. Shoot me if you will, but I actually like MSI, surprisingly. One of the FEW I like. Metal is more my kinda thing though, but I still prefer EDM to that (DnB, hardcore, hardstyle, etc). Napalm Flame 16:35, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

MSI? EDM? DnB? --Wolf 18:08, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

thanks for the comments @ Regina's page

I don't really feel like discussing it further over there because it's just going to go in circles at this point, but I'm glad there's at least one person who sees my point and gets it. :) --Xylia 23:55, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

^Likewise^ =D --Wolf 01:08, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Character Page Templates

I'm finding myself in need of a good character page template. Can someone hook me up with one? --Wolf 02:23, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

If you're still looking for one, I see that Wyn's is pretty good, considering that not only does it look nice, it also is designed for transclusion of her other templates. --Chaiyo Kaldor talk contribs 21:42, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I found something that will work, but thanks anyways =D --Wolf 21:43, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh, now I see it. I'm looking all around on your User page, thinking "Huh, can't see it; must still need it" when it's right there in your tabs! I noticed the other tabs, but didn't move my rebellious eyeballs onto that last one critical tab. OK, then, sorry for bothering you. Also, that icon? Niiiiice. Looks like you're the wiki's evil twin of Gaile. --Chaiyo Kaldor talk contribs 21:49, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Hehe, It was inspired by Gailes actualy. One of my favorite animals are wolves, the Timber Wolf to be exact, so I made it gray after that. As for the char template, it's all good, and you didn't both me at all =D --Wolf 21:54, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

No Guild Wars 2 info at Pax

Like I said in Regina's page, "ouch". I knew you were itching to get there for information. She could have let that bit of information out sooner though 000.00.00.00 06:41, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm just about as sad as sad GW player can be, too. I'll commiserate with you here and hope at least there will be some signed art...Kalidri 08:09, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, she told us they will be giving out prints of concept art signed by the authors at their booth. Although, as Mme. Donelle said, It's easy to bar any information on the internet, but when speaking with someone in person, its easy to drop little hints and details without noticing it. I'm hopin for a little of that. However, my motives for attending PAX extend beyond GW2 info, tho that was my primary focus. I'll still be attending, and I'm sure I'll have a good time. I'll be sure to pass along anything I learn, good stories and pictures to the wiki community. --Wolf 13:20, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, as PAX gets closer there should be more lists and details on the panels. If there's any hope at all of some smidgeon of a hint, it would be at a panel with some discussion of technical details or game design. Certainly, I'll go to PAX because it is fun to go and I think my online buddies would be mad with me if I didn't..but *le sigh, le whine* (gets over her sad self) Kalidri 14:36, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Haha, yeah. I knew it would be fun anyway, so as long as I have a good time while there, all will be fine and good =D --Wolf 14:38, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

In case you haven't seen. Some concept art newly posted today. Some is definitely GW1 leftovers, but a couple I definitely have not seen. Enjoy! [1] Kalidri 07:22, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

THANKS MAN! The last One is definately NOT GW1 or GW1 *notes man in space suite* But some of look liek they could very-well be GW2. The first two look something akin to a peice right outa the PCGammer article, they have the whole suspended look to em, quite interesting. The next 2 have a futuristic feel to them, I'm not sure about the 5th one, and you already have my make on the 6th one. Thanks again for pointing those out the me! =D --Wolf 15:39, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind

Sorry to have bothered yar, this argument is'nt even fun anymore. Good job trolling.Oni 16:00, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

You

need l2wiki and l2play. Since when does GW have 5 million players? Are we counting all the bot accounts now? Do keep in mind that whenever ANet says they have that many players, what they really mean is the number of accounts created - and I'd be willing to bet at least two million have been perma-banned, half a million are second/third/fourth/fifth accounts (I know at least two people with four accounts, and I suspect one of them has more, and his fiance has just as many as he), and one million are people who've left the game. That leaves, according to my math, 1.5 million players.

...Hell, RuneScape has about as many players as that. 81k playing at this very moment, on a Saturday morning 5:00 west coast time; yeah, that's probably around half their player base, as a large chunk probably hasn't woken up yet.

The other thing you need to realize is that, while the game is for having fun, you beating a better player because you rolled a gimmick is not fun for the other player. It's immensely frustrating to lose to shitway, lameway, or whatever the current poorly-balanced easily abusable build is. If gimmicks didn't exist, you would probably not appreciate your losses as an early player, but bear in mind that if you're truly fighting a much better player, he's liable to be bored half the match. You're going to die your first bunch of matches, and if you don't plan for it and then complain that the game's not fun, that's your own problem - not reason to make the game not fun for the truly skilled players and upset the ladder.

About selling the game: What? Gimmicks sell campaigns? Do you hear what you're saying? The campaigns sell themselves - everyone I've ever talked to, in game or out (and that's a significant number of people, believe you me) has bought the new campaigns for a few reasons: They're interested in the new PvE content, they want the new skills to be able to stay on top of the competition in PvP, and they figure what the hell, they liked what ANet did with the previous campaigns, they may as well get this one. The gimmicks only come into light when you realize - surprise - that they all make use of overpowered Nightfall and EotN skills... which falls in with the PvP I mentioned earlier (as opposed to what it should be - people like Ensign, Tommy, and JR buying the new expansion in order to toy around with the new skills and make a better balanced build). There is so much fun in the game without resorting to PvP at all (much less gimmicks) that it's not even funny - I didn't do any sort of PvP play (as RA, FA, and AB don't count) until well after Nightfall was released (my second GvG that day was against SFway on Warrior's Isle or something retarded like that; we managed to out-split them, which goes to show how horrible players they were). I bought Prophesies because the PvE campaign there is epic; I've made more than one new character just to go through the challenge of Ascalon, Kryta, and Maguma at the lower levels. I bought Factions twice, as a matter of fact: first because my girlfriend bugged me into it to get me started in GW, and later because mini Kuunie and /dancenew were both awesome enough to make me spend my money. And yes, that does mean I bought Prophesies after Factions. I bought Prophesies after about a month of playing Factions, in fact, and I did it because I loved the PvE in Factions and I'd heard better things about the PvE in Prophesies. Nightfall and EotN came and went, for the majority of the community, in a similar vein.

Why should you pick up a balanced build instead of a gimmick when you first start PvP? Why should you take a build you know you're going to lose with for a while before you start making any wins, as opposed to one that may score more wins (and, by your conclusion, must therefore be more fun)? Because you're going to die anyway, as I believe I mentioned earlier (and while the article is on a WoW blog, the points are still significant enough to any type of PvP - including most real life stuff - to be relevant), and if you bring a gimmick build and just spam "enter battle", you're not going to learn shit about the game and you'll never move beyond rolling sway to try to take halls or ursan to beat the campaigns. And yes, after a while that does get boring. (I've rolled ursan once, and I won't deny that it was a lot of fun having eight ursans beat some hard mode dungeons with people from [rawr] and whatnot, but all I really did was pound the numbers on my keyboard and bitch on vent to wait ten seconds before next agro because someone lost ursan mid-battle. It wouldn't have been fun beyond the initial "cool, what does this skill do" if it hadn't been for the fact that Scottie was dragging us around to get his max Master of the North title - and, in that case, it would have been fun no matter what build we ran, and I, being a horrible player overall, likely wouldn't have been invited to the group.)

Answer me this: Do you think anyone should reach rank 9 hero without ever once reaching the Hall of Heroes? What if they reach it once or twice, but never win? Alright, how about if they reach it say half a dozen times and never get a streak of more than three wins? I would say that's bullshit (same with r5 glad without ever getting a 50 win streak), but it happens more often than I'd be comfortable admitting.

You also need to stop accusing Oni of making personal attacks, as he has not done so. He's sworn a bunch, yes, and insulted you a couple times at the end of his posts, but none of that is a personal attack. The best way to deal with personal attacks and insults in the middle of an argument is to ignore them - they do nothing to address the problem at hand, and pointing them out only wastes everyone's time - because while it might be tempting to point out how he's making personal attacks, that does nothing for your argument either.

People like Oni worsen the PvP experience for a vast majority of people, yes - because the vast majority of people are dumb as fuck. If you're stupid enough to try to dump your cripshot on a tree derv, I'm going to call you out for it. If you're dumb enough to hit Distracting Shot after Aegis is finished casting, I'm going to call you out for it (unless you hit hboon/rof/guardian/something).

And yes, people are going to complain when gimmicks beat their balanced builds. Anyone is going to complain when they get beaten by skill-less players because of something they abused that's easily fixable. Tiger Woods would bitch if I beat him in a golf tournament because someone had given me a ball that veers towards the hole, wouldn't he?

-- Armond Warblade 22:10, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I haven't read your whole message yet (am going to), but first I'd like to say I love how you just assume I run gimicks all the time and have to use them to win. --Wolf 22:59, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I'm going to have to take this a bit at a time and think some things out more carefully, as looking back, I don't think I was 100% rational at the time of writing that >.<. First and easiest point to address: I asked a pretty large number of my well-informed friends how many players GW had, and they all told me 5 mill, give or take a little, so if they were wrong, oh well. It's pretty hard to come up with a 100% accurate or close estimate on how many players a game like GW has, so I juts go off what I'm told, which happened to be wrong by what your telling me. --Wolf 23:23, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Before I go any farther, please explain to me (this is a 100% serious question btw) your definition of a gimmick as detailed as you can, lay it all out asd thick as you can. --Wolf 23:25, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Let me clarify: When I said "you", I meant the general you, not the specific "Great Darkwolf" you. I don't know what builds you run, and honestly I couldn't care less.

A gimmick is a build that utilizes overpowered stuff to do one thing very well using little skill (as opposed to a balanced build, which requires skill but is versatile enough to adapt to various situations. (Gimmick builds die when you shut down their gimmick.) For a better definition, I'll let Shard explain. -- Armond Warblade 11:20, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Wolf, what you are arguing about is the subject of Guildwars gimmicks are not good for the game. You cannot win this argument. This is a fact. So just give it up tbh ;/Oni 12:44, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Ignoring Oni and moving on, would it be a fair assumption to make when I say that youw ould consider anything resembling a spike to be a gimmick? --Wolf 17:11, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

You're trying to lead me into saying something I won't mean, or at least draw some conclusion from my words that is completely against what I would mean to say. I'm not going to fall for it. There's two definitions of gimmicks there, that's what you asked for. You want anything else, say it flat out, don't try to trick me into supporting your argument. -- Armond Warblade 12:42, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm trying to understand your point of view. I don't think I'm cunning and devious enough to pull something like that off. If anything, I would take your words and turn them against you to prove my point, but isnt that how an arguement works anyway? Plus, I needed a little clarification on one or two things before I continued to discuss what you had to say. Now then, would you say all spikes fall under the gimmick category, or just ones that hinge around an overpowered skill such as SF and SFway? --Wolf 13:51, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm not one to throw around blanket definitions, as half the time when I do that I turn out to be wrong. SF spike is a gimmick, bloodspike was a gimmick (although I think it leaned more towards overpowered than gimmicky, as it used secondary professions well enough to be able to adapt to various situations, within reasonable limits for a spike), assassin-way is a gimmick, but that doesn't make all spikes gimmicks (and it doesn't mean that there aren't other gimmicky spike builds). -- Armond Warblade 15:06, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I remeber Invokespike being big for a while, are people still running it? I remember running it once or twice and it was pretty fun, and my team did rather well, but it was still kinda rough to run. It does air more on the side of overpowered, but half the challange of a good (non gimmicky) spike is creating those conditions under which it will work best, and then still being able to pull it off. Personaly, when I first started doing HA frequently, I found it easiest to learn the works of HA on a spike or some other non-balanced build. Iway, and Invokespike where the two big ones for me. After I felt comfortable in the whole HA environment and with the way things work, we started to tweak and ease into a more balanced and non spike oriented build. This may only be easily possible with a group of friends, but that is what worked for me. From a purely PvP standpoint, if you want to keep new players, you need some of these easy to run builds that one can learn the ropes on, and then migrate to a more balanced build when they are comfortable. Spikes generaly tend to have a very strait forward build, and require excelent teamwork to pull off. By starting with one, a player would leanr that good teamwork that is also required for a balanced build, learn how HA works, learn tactics and such, everythign that is build independent that is required for successful PvP play, and then you hit them with a more complex build when they have everything else handled. I remeber my first MA match, we were running a balanced build, By the end of the first match, I was frazzled and on sensory overload, and not doing so well, as I had juts too many new things to adjust to. What GW needs is not more gimmicks, but build like gimmicks in that they are easy to use and rather strait forward. Now, they may not win all the time with these either, but they win more than leanring on a balanced build, and learn the ropes of PvP faster. Most newer players aren't going to be cool with loosing a lot of their first maytches, and so will automatically gravitate to gimmick-like builds that are easy to run and work. As for handling gimmicks? They need to be handled like ursan needs to be handled, nto broken and nerfed into oblivion, but toned down to the point that they still work, but are not the most effective way to achive your end goal. Now, as for the matter of getting to r9 without ever making it to the hall, yes there is something wrong with that, but I think the source is the title and not so much the builds people use. Are you familiar with how Halo 3's rank and level system works for X-Box live? --Wolf 15:58, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

-sigh- just give up armond, this guy is a hopeless case. Seriously i know that i told you about him for laughs but this is just getting weird, his not even trolling. He actually says gimmicks are somewhat good. Noone gives a darn if your guild pulled off a invokespike.

Here is what a gimmick is, in short words: A build that can beat a better team running a balanced build using less skill and effort. Which isnt supposed to happen.

@Wolf: When there is a build where you dont need to do any effort or use any skill at all yet still win, it's wrong with the build. not the ranking system.Oni 23:19, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I hope you don't mind if I contribute to this conversation. I did miss the initial conversation that led to this argument, I was merely looking at the talk on my friend's userpage and I've been trying to figure out what you guys have been arguing about and I wanted to add my own input here. Sorry Wolf for disagreeing with you, but I think "gimmick" builds are horrible. They actually kill your idea of a "skill based MMO" when someone can easily win by spamming a single skill such as Searing Flames (I'm sorry for being a bit of a hypocrite). I think builds should be original, balanced, and a reflection of the player's own unique playstyle. Also Wolf, it would be appreciated if you posted a link to the original conversation for me to read so I could be a little better informed. --Fox427 06:40, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Also, don't talk down to Wolf, he's one of the smartest people I know, and one of the few people I can actually have intelligent conversations with. You guys are being hypocritical getting upset that he won't come to your side of the argument, when you refuse to even acknowledge his. Though in this case I do not agree with Wolf, I don't immediately condemn his opinion as wrong. --Fox427 07:48, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Reading a little farther in I would have to agree that "gimmick" builds are in many ways very suitable for beginner players. Though I do think they are overpowered, they give new players a chance to experience PvP. I do in fact owe many of my early PvP ventures to these so called "gimmick" builds, such as "Iway" and "Henchway" (while it lasted). The problem is people seem unwilling to try new and exciting builds a lot of the time and those with good ideas are often forced to resort to gimmick builds because they know they work. I also do agree with Wolf on another topic: it does in fact take skill to operate a HA team. Not just any random assortment of players can take a team all the way to HoH. I made it all the way to HoH on a henchway team once, but every other attempt I had ever tried on a henchway team ended in complete disaster, this also applies to many other gimmick builds I have tried in PvP. I still think that gimmick builds are bad for the game; I would just like to point out that there are some positive aspects. --Fox427 08:03, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Oni, Fox, allow me to clarify, I'm not saying gimmicks themselves and builds that hinge on overpowered skills are good, I'm saying builds like them that are rather simple and strait forward to operate are good. Evey player in a spike generaly has two purposes, one, unload on one person, and some other select task, simple, easy to pick-up on untill a person learns the works of HA and can easily manage a balanced build without going on sensory overload.

Now, Armond also expressed displeasure with seeing r9 people that had probably never mase it to the HoH, or only a few times. to quote him: "Answer me this: Do you think anyone should reach rank 9 hero without ever once reaching the Hall of Heroes? What if they reach it once or twice, but never win? Alright, how about if they reach it say half a dozen times and never get a streak of more than three wins? I would say that's bullshit (same with r5 glad without ever getting a 50 win streak), but it happens more often than I'd be comfortable admitting." and the solution to that problem does not come in nerfing every non-balanced build and every gimmick, a viable solution to that comes in changign the way we measure skill. I asked if anyone was familiar with the Halo3 rank/skill system for X-Box live, but since no-one answered, I will explain it.

As a player, you have two "ranks", you have the skill you are in a certain game type, and you have an overarching rank independent of gametype. The ranks are that of any militart oranization such as general, commander, colonel, major, ect, a full list can be found here (yes, these are my stats) that I will continualy reference to. Now, placing in the top 50% of the match grants you one XP point, and winning will level you up atleast once, (sometimes more if your a low level). Now, until one reaches officer ranks, all you would need is lots of XP, but after that, notice that it requires a certain skill level, and this is your highest skill in any one gametype. Now, winning alone isnt enough to gain skill, once you reach a certain point, you must show improvement in some way, such as more headshots, better accuracy, longer killing streaks, more doubles, triples and overkills in a match, longer winning streaks, ect. By combining two facets of play, number of matches won/did well in and good measure of skill, you get a very accurate measure of how good a player truely is.

In Halo 3, I like to think I'm somewhat good, but I know for a fact that I will never make it to general or brigadier rank. If titles in GW ran off a system such as this, you would no-longer have people at r9 just by continuealy grinding out a few wins and never macking it to the HoH, and would force them to adapt to a more robust build and get to the HoH to rank up further. You would being to see more players at higher ranks that actualy earned it and are good enough to claim r9 or such just bc they can grind. In Halo 3, you don;t see and Generals and Brigadiers runnign around that juts players thousands of games just to get there, they are actualy good enough to EARN that rank through how skilled they are, so that when you see one, you don't think (oh, he used gimmicks to get there or ground his way there) you think, man that guy s dangerous. I think as a player gets further up in ranks, the conditions under which they get fame and Glad points should become harder and harder to reach, such as having to win a match in the HoH after r7 or something, get a 25 win streak in TA or RA, stuff like that.

Fox, here is the original conversation that this one stemmed off. I'm not proud of the things I had said later on, and was being pretty irational at the time. --Wolf

Wolf, you seriously need to break your walls of text down into paragraphs. I'm trying to read this while waiting for the 30 second res timers, and it's hard. >.< -- Armond Warblade 15:13, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, things have a haibt of blending into one thought when I'm typing, I'll chunk it out some. --Wolf 15:14, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

There, it's been fixed, sorry again. --Wolf 15:16, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

You don't get it: If a build is supposed to be simple, it's supposed to be bad and get runned over by everything, our current gimmicks does not. People did not have any troubles learning about HA back in proph days, why the hell should they now?Oni 23:09, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

For starters, a build does not have to be complex to work. My warriors build is incredibly simple, but works very well, and almost all the time. Aslo, as for people not getting HA so fast now, a friend of mine once put it, "The average intelegance of a given game's community is inversly proportional to the number of people in it." Or, IMOW, the general puplic of a game gets less smart as you gain more people, or The longer a game has been out, the more stupid people it attracts. --Wolf 00:53, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Simply put, a simple build should give less results. It might be good against worse players, but it should always fail against people who put more effort into the game and have more skill. I think you agree on that. The problem, of course, is that the game currently supports using simpler builds because they give disproportionally huge results. -- Armond Warblade 02:01, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Idk what your defining as simple, but Im defining it as a build that has one, one two clear, distinct purposes and doesnt try to do a tone of things at once. A ton of the balanced teams I have been in all tried to (with the exception of the monk) each be a team confined in one person, (minus heals). You don;t throw tons of skills on a simgle warrior and have him set to take some damage, int, snare, KD, and maybe throw out a hex or two. Why do that when you can leave the ints to a ranger, and set the warrior with crip-slash, gash, Bull's strike, a speed skill, and a few other dmg do-ers, and he is set. Leave the AoE snaring to a water ele, who can also do AoE ints, and dish out some dmg, he shouldn't have to worry about removing hexes, and throwing them out and such, give a mez a few ints, and some supression hexes, they are good at that. Give the necro the hexes that realy dish out the pain. Every single person in a balanced team shoudl have one or two clearly defined goals of their build. to me, THAT is what simple is. a vert strait forward build then when someone reads through the set, can instandly grasp what their job on the battlefeild is going to be. How isa build like THAT supposed to not work and be not so effective and get rolled every time? Spikes also work around the same premise. Each member has 2 goals, deal massive dmg, and maybe one is set for snare, maybe one is set for ints, maybe another deals out conditions, and mayeb another has the painful hexes, but it still comes back to the pain-stakingly simple idea of keeping a build simple. --Wolf 02:26, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Righto, he says that people runs 1 war with cripslash, gash, bulls strike and (lets say rush) and then pack rest of bar with attack skills (ias? what? no, we dont need that at all!) Here is what you are supposed to do as a warrior: Get your target, interupt important spells such as guardian that will hurt your meele dps, - PROT DODGE - (know what that even is?) snare, pressure and spike. How the fuck is this 2 things? Lets try the ranger:
Get your target, spread poison , interupt important spells, snare, pressure. (Also, rangers got a optional slot quite alot of the times now that foul feast is out, you can sometimes use like mantra of concentration to help with spikes)
Necro: Support with foul feast, shut down meele enemies that pressures monks and such, be a whore with wail of doom, pressure with plauge sending.

You dont even know how to play balanced correctly >;/.

How to play escape ranger: Press escape to be immune of meele pressure, spam 1-2-3 for dps, everytime someone gets protted you do -not- need to prot dodge, just press rending touch. Can you see diffrence?

Can you please stop talking like you know more than everyone? Your first argument was that Just use a counter and sway is'nt balanced After that got shot down you are saying It's good for the new guys to have a chance beating better people

This is like saying it's fair that i get to use a car in a marathon race because i've never been in one before.Oni 22:23, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Lolz, the whole crip-slash and what-not was an example and me rambling and wasn't realy any serious attempt, it was juts something off the top of my mind. Also, anyone but a monk is gunna provide pressure. Also, I never said anything about sway and counters, take that up with Snakes, that was his shtick. And last of all, I have said this multiple times, and I will say it again, you need some way to keep new-er players or people who have never done PvP before interested in it, and a vast majority is in allowing build that are easier to use than a balanced build and will win them a few matches. THIS DOES NOT MEAN A GIMMICK! --Wolf 22:30, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

1. Bad people should NOT win over better people unless their running a jokebuild. That is a fact.
2. Balanced can get killed by a sway, that should NOT happen.

New people SHOULD NOT WIN in high end pvp areas to begin with. I would'nt mind if it was a build like n/a for ra killing easily. but to be able to gain a rank which is supposed to show that you are a pro pvp player? by smashing 1-2-3?

Take a example like this:

1. Take devil may cry 3 cd
2. Start dante must die mode
3. die in 2 hits due to being incapable of dodging attacks.
4. Gg.

It takes practice before you are able to play the difficult areas in the game. Atleast that is how it was before. I'll post this again so you wont missread it: New people SHOULD NOT WIN in high end pvp areas to begin with. Oni 10:57, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

The way you get into high-end PvP (HA, GvG, even TA to a point) is by looking at it, finding it moderately interesting, and finding friends to play with you. Maybe you only play twice a week or so, but seriously, if you're giving up just because you win maybe one in ten times, go /wrists. "OH MY GOD WORLD DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND ME I AM NOT AN INSTANT SUCCESS IN PVP WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH." -- Armond Warblade 13:21, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm not saying noobs are gunna be instant success and go all the way to the hall and win in their first couple runs. I'm sayign they should be able to wina match or two before getting completely dominated and sent back to town. Noobs beat experts and pros in every game and it happens enough. Look at the shotgun, mauler, rocket launcher, sniper rifle sword and grav hammer in Halo 3. Granted all those weaposn take some skill to use 100% effectively, but a noob in Halo 3 blasting a pro in the face with a shotgun is like a HA team containing a noob or two beating a more expeirenced the first oen ro two matches. Just because a team contains a noob does not mean they should be doomed to failure. Ever think of this? Maybe the noob is actualy good at something like TA, but has had zero succes in HA so far, and could be considered a noob, but has the potential to be better than most toher people, why should he be doomed to failure just because he is new to HA? not too long ago, I was playing Halo 3 with a newer player, His highest skill was 5 and he had somewhere along the lines of 15 xp but had been playing with people of skill 30+. He was a noob, and by what your saying, should have lost all his games thus far, in fact he hadn;t lost. a month later he was a two star General. By what your saying, that should have taen him a couple months or even a year to achieve. Things like HA take a certain level of success to make someone want to return. Tell me, if you got completely rolled your first 50 HA matches, would YOU have returned? --Wolf 13:51, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Quite honestly, no. I wouldn't. and yes, I did. I didn't run a gimmick build. My friends and I (One an experienced HA'er) decided we were going to try. We all got on vent, he hooked us up with a balanced build, and we went for it. We got swayed, spiked, and rit spiked out of HA. Now I'm a good player at most games I play. But this was just stupid. Spent three hours with no reward. So we left. Well, silly as we were, we decided to try again, with one of these slight 'gimmick' builds. Tada! we one a round. Felt much better after that. And learned a lot too. I don't continue to play HA, haven't had enough time lately. However, that gimmick build made me see that after all, yes, HA can be fun. (And I'm never going to make it to r9... ) Kyle van der Meer 14:04, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

the thing is tho, if you tried to do a balanced build 50 times in a row with vent and decent players, you wont get rolled. hell, you'll even surely claim halls. Stop comparing a mmorpg to a fanboy shootout game.Oni 14:32, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Why should I when I can draw good and perfectly acceptable parallels? I play Halo 3 b/c I can have a good time with ym friends playing it, or just have a good time, not b/c I'm crazy obsessed with it. And yes, if you PuG your first 50 HA matches on a balanced build without vent, you WILL get rolled every time, like so many people I know have tried to do. --Wolf 14:35, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Did you even read my last post? I seriously doubt it. Try again
the thing is tho, if you tried to do a balanced build 50 times in a row WITH vent and DECENT PEOPLE, you wont get rolled. hell, you'll even surely claim halls. Stop COMPARING a mmorpg to a fanboy shootout game.Oni 15:26, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

First off, you should try indenting more. Secondly, I'm not comparing GW to Halo 3, I'm drawing a parallel, learn the difference. Third, Yes, I did read your last post, did you read mine? Also, vent and decent players don't garrentee Halls, after all, you said it yourself that noobs should get rolled until they become expert players. --Wolf 15:32, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

-sigh- Answer my question honestly: Are you a troll, a idiot or just really really stubborn? If i go run 50 times with a balanced build with my friends i'll fucking HOLD halls, and i'm not that much of a expert. Oni 15:41, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Try indentding sometime, its a lot of fun. 50 was a massive exageration. Most people will give up after getting rolled 10 times in a row, if that. 10 runs is not enough to make one a decent HA player, and by YOUR logic, a noob should get rolled every time until he is no-longer a noob, which will not change if he gets rolled 10 times in a row. After about the 3rd wipe in a row, theyw ill be frustrated and angry, and will cease to leanr anything of value and will not become a better player until they can cool down. First lession on teaching ANYONE ANYTHING, you must instill confidance in them, and establish that it's something they CAN learn to do, which in this case, is done by them winning a their first game or two, and still winning somewhat foten after that, but not getting rolled almost every time. But once again, by your logic, noobs must get rolled until they are decent players, so I guess that appraoch is out the window. --Wolf 15:49, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Even at 10 i'll be able to hold halls. fail.Oni 15:53, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

We are talking about total noobs who have never HAed before in their lives, not you. --Wolf 15:54, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Interesting discussion all in all, with the exclusion of most of oni's comments(epic fail on indenting BTW). I tend to agree with Wolf entirely. He's made a valid point, which pre-biased people do not understand(and there's always a lot of pre-biased people). Finally, this was not a discussion on how many runs you would need for holding halls, it was a discussion about said 'gimmick' builds and their validity for beginners. Oni successfully used a tactic known as the red herring in an attempt to change subject in order to make his own position more stable. Wolf's comment about indenting might also be viewed as such, however, it also might be considered reminding the opponent of the rules of debate. And as for who is trolling, possibly myself(Howbeit unintentional) and definitely Oni. so QQ more, wolf's got a point. Kyle van der Meer 16:05, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

You just fucking dont get it. Assume that consumables and ursan got wtfpwnd; High end pve area would need coordination, teamplay and god forgive me for saying this: Skill in pve.

Now take pvp which is supposed to be what, 100 times harder? If some guy is impatient and goes whining about getting rolled after 10 times, he should ask himself why instead of crying out that it's impossible, then he needs to try out builds that will work in HA, before he knows it: his good. The people who cries and stops pvping forever are the same idiots who needs ursan to do any area of the game. Becaue they cant be arsed to learn about the game.

HIGH END PVP IS FOR GOOD PEOPLE. Please understand. HIGH END PVP IS FOR GOOD PPL. ITS CALLED HIGH END FOR A REASON. HIGH END HIGH END HIGH END HIGH END...Aight, that was abit scary of me, but you should get it.

And you have'nt answered: Are you a troll, a idiot or just really really stubborn? Good players are never supposed to lose against bad players. Take football for a example; what are the odds that ronaldo should lose against some guy who just tried out football for the first time? What are the odds that anyone experienced in football loses against someone who starts for the first time? (please answer this question)Oni 15:59, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I'd say stubborn. One does nto simply go from being awesome strait into being good at HA. When I started doing HA, I was a very good PvE player, but was still terrible at HA, even tho I had had a good deal fo TA and RA xp, and even a decent amount GvG guesting in a friend's guild (yes, we did do pretty well). I thought, hey how hard could HA be? It was quite a drastic change. If you put an entire team of noobs against a team of seasoned veterans, of course, the more expeirenced players would win, unless some fluke happened. But answer me this, if you had a full team of seasoned veterans with one noob against another team of seasoned veterains, your logic would dictate that the team with the noob would loose, just b/c they have a noob on their team. --Wolf 16:11, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes. yes it would. Why is that bad? It's the superior team and it deserves to win. And the thing is: These teams like sway are not teams you win with. You press enter battle FULLY KNOWING you will lose before you even get to halls. Try asking yarself then; Why do you enter battle? Answer: fame farm. It's a fucking farmer build. Ask anyone decent if ya wont believe me. It's a fact. It does not help noobs learn about HA and have fun, it lets them grind their rank untill they got their bambi and then go to RA bragging about it. Oni 19:42, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Have I not got it in your head that I'm not saying noobs need gimicks to play HA? --Wolf 19:45, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Your saying that noobs should have a way of beating better players. That way is currently gimmicks. and if you go way back to the start of this ageish long argument is that you'll see you qqing to me because i complained to izzy over gimmicks, therefor gimmicks are teh subject. Altho i said it before, i'm done with you. You are either a fantastic troll or a fucking dumbass. Yar even worse than droks imo >,<Oni 21:31, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I love how you said you where done, but came back, but if your actualy going this time, thats fine with me. This conversation gets archived in one hour if you don't want to keep it going. --Wolf 21:34, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Archive after thsi conversation has received no posts for 3 days. Common wiki courtesy. (/jumpsin) -- Mini Me 21:40, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Archived Conversations

If at any point you would like to continue a conversation I have archived, add a new section under the same name, make a note its a continuation of an archived subject, and talk away. I'll bring it out of the archives and add it to the subjest so other's can read the whole conversation more easily. Just because it's in my archives doesn't mean I don't want to talk about it any more. --Wolf

My User Page

I would love to know what you think of it. --Wolf

I like it :). --Silverleaf 21:46, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks =D Now that my user-page is all fine and good, time to give my individual character pages some much needed tlc. --Wolf 21:48, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm...after almost three years i can't wait to see the progress on the other characters ;-) --Silverleaf 22:25, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Not much sadly. I have logged somewhere around 2200 hours, half of those being on my warrior. A decent part of my hours has been spent farming and not so much title getting XD --Wolf 13:52, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Sounds sort of like me. I've logged 3,000 hours and nearly 2,000 of those hours are on my ele. :P

Nice userpage btw. — ク Eloc 貢 20:10, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! =D --Wolf 20:25, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

this

IS... SPARTAAA!!! - Y0_ich_halt 15:32, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

This user can c wut u did thar

--Wolf 15:37, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

i don't like this icon with it, but i'll have to put a box with this on my page. - Y0_ich_halt 15:48, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

What icon would you suggest? --Wolf 15:50, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

something like the "owlcat has wise". - Y0_ich_halt 15:56, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Ah! Well, I was trying to stick with something that was a skill icon, as I didn't want to run into more copyright and wiki policy vios, as I have before. There is a reason I have an archive just for that stuff :P --Wolf 15:58, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

rofl XD - Y0_ich_halt 15:59, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

character name

i'd guess "Du Domia Abr Wryda" was inspired by Eragon, wasn't it? sunds very much like it. - Y0_ich_halt 19:26, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

VERY much so. Pretty much ripped right outa the book. --Wolf 19:27, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

i liked the series when i first read it. now it seems kinda... old fashioned. if you think about it again, there's much recycling of old fantasy stuff in there and the plot couldn't be much simpler. - Y0_ich_halt 19:31, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I have one more character along those lines. The Silmarilian reference should also stick out like a sore thimb, altough its got a typo. As for Eragon, It's kind of a Lord of the Rings flavor to it. IDK, I don't read very much fantasy, It's hard for me to find books that hold my interest, tho I do enjoy reading. --Wolf 19:35, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

the host. it's probably the most interesting (of the few) love story(ies) i've ever read, although some of the characters aren't well evolved. as always, much to be done better, but still quite nice. - Y0_ich_halt 19:38, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

What's it about? --Wolf 19:38, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

earth has been invaded by aliens, souls as they call themselves, silvery creatures that take control of their host body and mind (most importantly memories and habits) after implantation. the story is about one 'female' soul, wanderer. she's put inside Melanie, a human who is expected to have knowledge of one of the few left human refuges, but she fails to expel melanie's conscience fully and lives on with mel as a separate identity in her head. at some point melanie attacks wanderer with memories of herself with her boyfriend Jared, leading to wanderer also falling in love with jared (although souls themselves aren't really able to feel anything). as the story goes on wanderer developes an own sense for feelings and eventually falls in love with another human. - Y0_ich_halt 19:46, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm, sounds potentialy interesting. --Wolf 19:49, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

my brother brought the american audiobook back from his holidays over there in the usa. i just enjoy listening to english speaking, so it wasn't really about whether the story's that great XD - Y0_ich_halt 19:52, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

LOL! But was it a good book? --Wolf 19:55, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

i do like it. - Y0_ich_halt 20:04, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm, I'll have to find time to read it then. --Wolf 20:08, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Damnit

I lost the game from looking at your userpage :'( lol — ク Eloc 貢 20:12, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

LOL! HAHA! I was hoping I would get alteast one person! I loose the game all the time whe I go editing my user page XD --Wolf 20:14, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

xD it's a pretty big game here, like everyone I know plays it, and even people I don't know. lol. I was doing good too, like over a month of not losing kind of good. — ク Eloc 貢 20:17, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, it's hard for me when I constantly find myself on Vent with about 5 friends that play, And we all leave all kinds of traps around where-ever we can. --Wolf 20:19, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

which one are you referring to right now? also, wolf, credit, NAO! - Y0_ich_halt 20:22, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Which one what, and for what do I owe you credit? I'm a little lost atm :P --Wolf 20:23, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

ilostthegame.org? — ク Eloc 貢 20:28, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

i just made wolf lose the game, clever. - Y0_ich_halt 20:29, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that's the one Eloc. I just lost the game again >.< --Wolf 20:35, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

actually, i meant to ask how eloc got to the "lost the game" meme in the first place. and credit for the rune of doom userbox xD but i guess the loss is still warranted by the fact that you believed my post before this one :P - Y0_ich_halt 20:38, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) This is how Eloc lost the game:

This user just lost The Game

Ah, yes, the rune of doom box, I'll have to work something fancy up for that. --Wolf 20:41, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

when you think about how many times the authors of that page must've lost the game... - Y0_ich_halt 20:46, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

lolz. Yo, if your resourcefull, I just gave you credit for the rune of doom box. =D It still needs something better tho, so I'm workin on that. --Wolf 20:48, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

i'm more than content with it. feel free to change it, though XD - Y0_ich_halt 20:51, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

i'll lose the game every time i visit my user page. damn, if i think about it... aw, screw it, i just lost the game again. - Y0_ich_halt 20:52, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I just lost the game again --Wolf 20:53, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

btw, there's a second game going on. you lose it by creating phail, and it's possible to win by creating a sufficient amount of lulz. - Y0_ich_halt 20:55, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

How does one create phail and lulz? Oh, and full credit is now given for the rune of doom box. --Wolf 20:58, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

your actions may lead to certain reactions in your audience. if there's an exceptional amount of them being "lol" or related, you win. if you're trying to get this result obviously but you can't actually manage to get any lulz, you phail (or fail, iow, you made a lame comment). - Y0_ich_halt 21:07, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

AH! kk, I see. --Wolf 21:09, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

it may also happen that phailing without a comment leads to losing the game. damn i just lost the game again. - Y0_ich_halt 21:10, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I just lost the game. --Wolf 21:12, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Damnit I lost. I wanna win some day...*gleam of hope in eyes* — ク Eloc 貢 01:36, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

On Vista, if you lose a game of Minesweeper, it says "Sorry, you lost the game!" -- Armond Warblade 01:26, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Welcome

Woot, happy super belated welcome Darkwolf :P lol — ク Eloc 貢 01:43, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Although, it has only been in the last two-months-ish that I have started posting and such, so it's not THAT belated XD Altough I have had an account for over a year now. I made my user- page and just left it collecting dust. --Wolf 02:01, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Eloc needs to archive --Wolf 04:29, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

WoW

it sucks. - Y0_ich_halt 15:27, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Why? Gameplay? Community? Monthly fee? Something else that I can't think of atm? --Wolf

All of the above? -- Brains12 \ talk 15:30, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

This is a conversation I'd liek to have, not just soem random question that I wanted a short answer for. Please, by all means, lay all your thoughts out. I will be heavily and judicously moderating this, so any comments that I fell are not constructive to the conversation will be moved off the conversation. I don't want to turn this into a "Hey, let's have an Insult-WoW-fest!" Anyway, your thoughts, I'd love to hear them. --Wolf 15:33, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Apart from that it's boring as hell, I have nothing personally against it, but seeing stuff like this happening cause of that darn game, it's unacceptable. Hope Anet doesn't make an addictive game like WoW or I wouldn't buy it, I don't want my life to be controlled by a video game. --MageMontu 15:36, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) wow features many things, such as ugly graphics, ugly animations, even higher percentage of children than gw and terrible game mechanics, mainly "pvp", travel system, equipment, level and skills. the only positive points for wow i can think of are a) jumping and b) more storage space. - Y0_ich_halt 15:39, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

LOL! Bad things happen when I play D2, but that I found to be an excelent game for it's time. Also, A man died at a Star Craft World tournament. Little knwon fact, people have died as a direct result of people playing every single one of Blizzards games so far. --Wolf 15:56, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I think I'll start a bit of rant here. When I first heard about WoW, it looked like a fun game, and was a pretty attractive prospect, me being a somehwat big Warcraft fan. When I heard about the monthly fee, I was instantly turned off to it. Now, several of my friends all played WoW at the time, and when they heard I would nto play it, I took a heavy amount of crap from them for it. This began some of my more personal issues with it. Now, a few months when by, and one of my friends persuaded me to atleast play the trial before I established such a strongly rooted hate for the game. Now begins the non people related issues. The game took 3 hours to install (yes, my comp is rather fast too) and another to finally get it all patched, which was a lot of trouble. Now, by this point, I was already fed-up with the game and wanted to quite, as almost no game is worth THAT level of trouble. So, I made my character and grumbled a little about them all looking the same and not very interesting for characters ina fantasy universe. I played the agme for an hour or so, grumbled about the difference in controls from other games, but I do that all the time. At about hour two, I was some-what impressed at the level of detail and featureset, as well as some of the mechanics of the game. By about the thurd hour, I was bored and got off. The next day, I played for two hours happily with a friend, and quickly became bored when he got off. I heavily discussed the game with my friends that played WoW, and the impression I got was "Grind-fest, all day, all night, grind to 60, grind for gear, grind for a mount, grind for everything, then PvP." I did not liek this image, so I announced that I would not eb finishing the other 10 days on my 14 day trial. I was level 13 when I quite. Now, the first thing that happened was they all yelled at me saythign the game didn't even start until level 20! This sent me over the edge, and I announced I would never play WoW again. A month later, things cooled down, but I was consistantly nagged by people that I should play WoW (my friends too), when I announced that I hated WoW and would never play, chaos inssues and almost violence some times because I "insulted" their precious WoW. That was my expirence with WoW, asn I will rant about everything I saw wrong with the game in short time. --Wolf 15:56, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) wow, just wow. All that for just a game? I mean I used to have some discussions about GW vs WoW in college, but we used to end that discussion with a laugh. --MageMontu 16:04, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm able to have some of those conversations with my friends now, but not since I did some serious thinking and talking to people. --Wolf 18:31, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, to put it lightly, I have since figured out which of those friends where realy my friends, I now have 2 friends that ahve played WoW (one of them doesn anymore, I re-habed him with Guitar Hero, LOL!) out of the 10 to begin with. --Wolf 16:06, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I actually have some similar experience (minus the hostilities of course :D) with Lineage 2. I tried getting into the game but it was just too much repetition and grind. GW spoiled me. I can't see the appeal of repeatedly doing quests that are essentially "Kill A X number of times." -- ab.er.rant 16:26, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I tried L2 also. Same results as you. --Wolf 16:29, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm currently in a similar, though not so intense, WoW situation with one of my friends as Wolf had. Basically, it boils down to the fact that Guild Wars is much faster paced than WoW. By the time the "game starts" at level 20 (which is where I stopped on that friend's account), I could be freeing innocent people from a death at the Bloodstone, preventing Shiro from using the power of Cantha's heroes for his own purposes, or fighting the demons of a forgotten god. I can also participate in PvP, with my only restraint being my own skill level (and maybe the lack of a couple elite skills). Not only in general is the pace slower, but in combat, too! Even running similar builds to what would be a quick, effective team build in GW, it would take about four times as long to kill one creature at a level balanced to your own in WoW as it would to kill a patrol of about six or seven monsters at higher level in GW! In my opinion, the latter is even more enjoyable. The PvP is nothing special, especially when many people are just using it as a change of pace from the PvE (I know I didn't hit the max, but I watched my friend do some high-level PvP and drew the same conclusion). I'd rather be constantly outskilled in HA than deal with the influx of noobs in any WoW PvP. And gimmick builds in GW are a white rabbit compared to WoW's jabberwock. The worst part is, I expected to like WoW! The drama didn't start until the boredom set in. All I have to say is that it's a big game world, but there doesn't seem to be much to do in it. --Chaiyo Kaldor חיו 17:09, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Wolf needs to rant some more now --Wolf 17:48, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

My problems with WoW (and they are many) are as follows:

1. The whole game is one giant grind-tackular grind-fest for everything, levels, gold, gear, skills, ect.
2. Balance is more skrewed up than people complain about in GW, There are 2-3 (depending on how you look at it) professions that are out-right broken and overpowered.
3. Combat is on basically a rock-paper-scissors system, with little variation, certain professions will always beat certian others with little variation.
4. Skill system blows, no room for creativity, or variation, it's just w/e works best at the moment.
5. There is no variation or room for diversion, as there are only two kinds of skills: those that suck, and those that don't.
6. PvP is a joke, it's essentialy PvE a against random enemies that could be smarter than your average enemy. The easily garenteed a win with button spiking with friends on vent.
7. PvE is a joke, as your only options are grinding, or the few scattered good quests.
8. Gear system is a joke, if your a higher level with better gear, you win, period.
9. The community is a joke, the vast majority being little kids that are alliance so they can be elves or dwarves, until Burning Crusade came out and added blood elves to horde, 99% of all the good players were horde players.
10. This whole "The game doesn't start until level 20" is totaly BS, GW starts as soon as you make your char and watch/skip the intro video.
11. Getting around the game blows the most, as you have to walk or take services (cost money, gotta grind for money) that take a while too. Plus, they only go to major cities, so your stuck walking some more anyway. This problem isn't solved until your 40 or so (gotta grind for it) and have a load of cash (even more grinding) and can get a mount.
12. Instances are a joke, as you spend 2 hours with 40 other people getting to the boss, and then another 2 to kill him, for a .1% chance that he will even drop his leet item.
13. Duels are a joke, as the higer level will pretty much always win.
14. The whole Horde vs Alliance is a joke, as most of the good players are horde, and it's all too easy to gank someone after they finished a duel, while they are sittign on the ground regening.
15. Regening sucks, as it consists on sitting on the ground eatign food for 5-20 mins, then sitting some more drinking something for 5-20 mins.
16. Warp stones (or w/e they are called, can't remember) are junk, as it only works once an hour, not good for travel realy.
17. Most quests are laughable at best, as the majority consist of fed-ex quests (remember how much travel sucks?), or collecting so much of an item, which involves killing lots of a certain enemy (guess what? MORE grinding, bet ya didn't see that one comming!)
18. Graphics are pretty lousy and look half-rate for a Blizzard game. It's hard to take a game seriously when it looks like something out of a children's book.
19. Weapons are rediculous looking and over-sized
20. Armor is WAY to builky in some parts, and not big enough in others, plus, most of it looks the same, nto enough diverstiy untill you get inmto Teir armor, which guess what? You have to grind for!
21. Character models are ludicrous, unrealisticaly proportioned, and don't look natural.

I'm sure I could go on longer, but I'm outa stuff for the moment. WoW is escentialy a joke, and a half-baked waste of your money at best. It's a big black mark on Blizzards excelent repulation at making quality enjoyable games. --Wolf 18:10, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Donno like the graphic nor the game interface of wow. ;-). --Silverleaf 19:14, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Interface, meh, it works, but it's not worht bragging about, the grahpics looked dated even when it was new tho. --Wolf 19:15, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

i think you got the major points, but graphics are really missing in your rant. - Y0_ich_halt 19:18, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

That they are, but they kinda go without saying, but, Imma add them anyway. hit on charcters, weapons and armor too. --Wolf 19:22, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Lessee what I, as a WoW player, can bring to the table here.

I took the liberty of changing your bullet points to numbers, so that I can reference your points point-by-point. Don't use bullet points for things people will reply to, dude. :P

1. Have to disagree on the whole grind point. Been playing for three or four months now, have yet to find any grind outside a few horrible quests (which, guess what, I skipped without losing much, and which I'd find in any game).
2. PvP balance is messed up, yes. I get the feeling that WoW:PvP::GW:PvE. If you don't know what that means, it means that Blizzard didn't ever really mean for PvP to become a big thing, and only did so because of popular demand. (See also: Stranglethorn Vale and PvP server popularity.) PvE balance, however, is fine - every class brings something unique to the table, and unless you're retarded or playing only with retards, you'll try to bring as many different classes as you can for the stackable buffs.
3. You seriously need to look again if you think a warrior will always beat a warlock or vice versa. Skill plays a pretty major factor in the (not very important) PvP aspect of the game.
4. Skill system doesn't suck balls like GW's. This is a major plus. And, really, what else are you going to do in a game? Do you take Bull's to PvE? No, it doesn't work best at the time. You bring Executioner's instead, which works best for the time. The only difference between GW and WoW here is that in WoW you have to keep everything semi-readily available and keep through your head what more than eight skills do.
5. Skills will always own or suck, simply because they're different. Take a look at GW - there's maybe a couple hundred good skills total.
6. What else would you consider PvP to be? I mean, seriously, if you're not a good player fighting other good players, no matter what you run vent spikes will win anything. This is what arenas are for - battlegrounds are scrubland.
7. "A few scattered good quests" composed my leveling from, say, 1 to 68. I'm currently level 68. Not seeing any grind here.
8. Gear system sucks, yes, but you're putting way too much emphasis on PvP. The gear system is actually used to good advantage in PvE - if you haven't the skill to get a certain level of gear, there are boss fights that you simply cannot pass. (They're very easy if you have good enough gear, though.)
9. No shit? GW's community sucks balls. RS's community sucks balls. Every MMO I've ever played has had a shit community. It's called the internets. Welcome to it.
10. The game really doesn't start until 70. Everything before that is l2p, and designed such that there isn't a lot of grind (the "faster leveling" patch helped that, admittedly). GW's failure is that the srs bsns game starts so early (at 20, obviously, because any dumbshit can make a level 1 character) and teaches you so little before that. WoW, to a point, doesn't have that problem. (There's still dumbasses who get to 70 by soloing but without learning a thing, but they're far fewer.)
11. I have to grind for the <10s it takes me to fly from one side of the continent to the other? Uh, no, even at level 40 I got more than that by killing a single monster. Transportation is not a problem at all (especially with the introduction of BC and Shattrath), because even if you can't run somewhere, you can fly or get a portal (which costs like a gold in tips). You also seem to be under the impression that you can only fly to major cities; that's dead wrong. There are very few places you can't fly to, in fact. Boats and zeppelins only go to major cities, yeah, but do you really expect the goblins to set up a boat system from, say, Booty Bay to the insignificant coast territory of Winterspring? Not realistically - but you can fly there. Mounts are at 30 now btw (even less of this "grind" you keep mentioning - I got my first character to level 13 in six hours; can you say that about Prophesies?), and cost very little even now that they're down to 35g; even on my first character getting the 100g or so for my first mount was... insignificant, because that's not a lot of money - and my future characters are just going to get that mailed to them.
    1. Now you're gonna say "flying takes fucking forever!" Well, yeah, I don't like waiting fifteen minutes to fly from Booty Bay to Isle of Quel'danas or whatever it's called either, but (assuming I still take the longest flight path in the game instead of the portal) that's time you can take to, you know, step away from the game. Your standard 3-5 minute flight is time you can spend stretching, or going to the bathroom, or doing something not-WoW. And if you can't do that, you're probably addicted to the game. (I honestly thing the flights take as long as they do to encourage you to step back for a bit - Blizzard probably gets plenty of complaints that people's kids are addicted and won't ever step away.)
12. I dunno what's taking you so long to do your instances (any competent team can wipe out the trash to a boss in an hour or less, picking up some pretty nice loot on the way, and take out the boss in at most another half hour if they've actually read up on the boss and have vent), or why you're taking so damn many people (the vast majority of instances are 5-man; there's a couple 10-mans, half a dozen or so 25-mans which are srs fkn bsns, and like one 40-man instance), or why the drop rate of epic items is so low (many - I think every - level 70+ boss is guaranteed to drop one epic item, usually two or three, in addition to normal boss loot and badges of justice that you can use to purchase more epic loot).
13. Duels are a joke? Yeah... uh... why the hell are you dueling someone not about your level? A 2-3 level difference doesn't matter at all (except at levels 60 and 70), and accepting a duel beyond that is your own stupidity. (I've dueled random level 70 paladins on my level 13 hunter a few times just for fun; there's no way I could have won, obviously.)
14. Most good players are horde? uh what? Most good people I know are alliance; I've seriously considered rerolling alliance, like Ratshag did, because no one I know on the horde side is good and still plays. Also, if you're getting ganked after duels, you're on a PvP server, in which case... why the fuck are you sitting on the ground in the first place?
15. ...you do know that you can eat and drink at the same time, don't you...? And it doesn't take nearly that long - I've regened to full in 15 seconds. When I'm nearly dead (~1% hp), it can take as much as 24 seconds.
16. Hearthstones aren't meant for traveling. They're meant for "crap, I was fucking dumb and I died in the middle of a ton of enemies and if I res I'm going to die in five seconds" or "I'm being camped on a PvP server and wasn't prepared for this kind of thing when I clicked the box that said 'THIS IS A PVP SERVER PEOPLE WILL KILL YOU GET FUCKING USED TO IT'". The fact that they have an hour-long cooldown was kind of annoying when I first started, but when I started thinking of flight paths as my primary means of travel instead of the hearthstone, their recharge became irrelevant. (Nowadays there's more than one way of getting back to any major city you might pick as your hearth, or any random point on the map you could pick instead. I only ever use mine when I don't feel like leashing myself to a PvP game, which is rare.)
17. What are these fed-ex type quests you speak of? Seriously, link them to me (use wowhead, please, the other sites suck). I can think of a few, none of which were at all difficult. The "collect x things" and "kill x things" quests aren't at all bad... even if the drop rate is horrible, you can just... skip it. There are very few quests in which the reward is so awesome that you can't skip the quest. The really horrible quests are the escort quests, because most things you have to escort move at about half your normal speed (a quarter your normal speed once you get a proper mount), but grouping up for them (even finding just one partner) makes them laughably easy if they weren't already.
18. See also: Paper Mario.
19. See also: The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker.
20. See also: Top Gear 2 SNES.
21. See also: Guitar Hero (any) or Rock Band.
    1. What do I mean by all that? Graphics don't make the game. All of those games were pretty awesome with horrible (or at least highly contested) graphics. For every person who doesn't like that huge PvP sword/axe/whatever, there's someone who likes that style. Tell me why I should care that you (or I) don't like the graphics. I'd also like to see what you call "realistic proportions" on an elf, what with you not having anything to compare to. The only race you might actually have a point with is humans, but honestly, you spend so much time looking at the ass of every character in the game that it doesn't matter.

-- Armond Warblade 23:18, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Also, you had an absolutely shitty first experience with WoW, and your friends can suck my cock. I really hope you didn't ragehate all of WoW because of that one experience - I'd have quit GW a year ago if I had. -- Armond Warblade 23:48, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

First off, I was ranting, second off, 90% of what I said was conveyed to my by many different people, and third, It's VERY hard for me to associate anything good with WoW. That's my opinion, take it or leave it. The thing that got me most is when I said I don't like WoW around almost anyone that played it, Theya ll jumped down my throat about it, and somoen once almost took it to blows (but he was not very stable in the head). I have this user box on my page for a reason.

WoW This user's opinion of WoW is highy bias and heavily tainted by personal issues with people playing it, and not so much the game its self.

Also, most of what I have on WoW is pre-BC, and little after. I could (and seem to be) wrong on many of those issues, but that still doesn't change the fact that thoughts of WoW leave a bitter taste in my mouth. You wanna play it? Cool. You like it? Cool. You think I'm wrong about everything I said about it? Cool. I see no problem with any of that, just as long as you leave me out of the WoW picture. --Wolf 03:24, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Actualy, I'm going to ask you guys to carry on this discussion without me. Things will get too ugly if I continue to take part in this, but I'm still gunna read it and maybe have a small question or two. Starting with this one, which goes to Armond. What made you pick up WoW, and then later, keep playing? --Wolf 03:33, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, around the 17th of April, 2006, I found out my old girlfriend was cheating on me, long story short, on the 23rd of April Chloe and I got together... oh, wait...

It was the 14th of April, 2008, when I was in that "I have GW installed but I'm not logging on more than once a month" phase, that I found out a few of my friends played WoW. I'd already given the trial a run and hadn't been too impressed with it, but I figured what the hell, it's free and I no longer have GW to distract me. So I gave it a spin and, now that I wasn't comparing everything to a game I was already playing, I found I rather liked it. The lack of "here's three hundred skills, go figure out what's most broken and run it" was a big plus. As I think I said before, I got to level 13 in six hours (a feat I've never been able to repeat).

What kept me going from there was partially the fun of the game, but also partially the fact that I had friends to speak to that would actually understand what I was talking about, and could give advice. As of right now, though, one of said friends is on vacation (in bloody California, because, of course, she had to choose this summer to go there, while I'm at my Dad's in NC) and the other two have apparently slowed their playing due to some things called jobs. Booo I say.

The good thing is that I've found a chunk of new friends, now that I'm actually looking. I do hate the way their servers are set up, though - you can't interact with anyone not on your server. That's something I'd not do if I were making an MMO.

-- Armond Warblade 13:41, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

It's a hardware barrier, not programming. They could effectively link all the servers into one massive server, and have the in-game servers just be coded out perameters, but that would be more taxing on the hardware, and cost more to maintain. They could easily do it now, but back when they where making WoW, they didn't have quite as much to deal with money wise. --Wolf 13:57, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

GW doesn't appear to have had that problem. Hell, even RuneScape does better than that. -- Armond Warblade 14:05, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, that and it's easier to manage, if one whole server goes down, you don't risk taking down the entire network. I had an article on how and why Blizzard does their system they way they do, but I'm having trouble finding it. I need to double-check with a friend of mine, but for a while, I don't think runescape even ran their own serversor even had any. I have noticed that throughout the time I have been playing GW (atleast since I have started keeping track) I have only realy seen two-three IP-Addresses that I'm connected too. --Wolf 14:12, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Anyone else wanna rant for/against WoW? --Wolf 14:20, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Anomalous Materials

I'm testing stuff here. It could be dangerous. Please, don't touch. Thank-you. --Wolf

EW. -- Armond Warblade 22:20, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Use of a HazMat suit is recommended, well, unless you don't touch it that is XD --Wolf 22:23, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm saddened by the lack of necessary references. Sounds Risky | 22:29, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

It wasnt exactly planned as a reference. --Wolf 02:42, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and there are such things as Anomalous Materials Labs, they just don't involve inter-demensional matter. And yes, I have played every half-life game. --Wolf 03:34, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I now have a place for this stuff, so It's leave my talk page. --Wolf 18:55, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Signature

Just wanted to say I like your latest signature :) – Barinthus 21:57, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks =D I've been changin it every once in a short while, and I think I'm finally happy with it. --Wolf 21:59, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Chess Tournament

See who you are playing against. — ク Eloc 貢 03:25, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

HALP!

Anyone got a factions character needing to do Mayhem in the Market? I need to get a proph's char there for mapping — Wolf 18:16, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

nvm, Im good — Wolf 18:40, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

FIRST

-- NUKLEAR IIV 08:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Wow, that took long enough XD --Wolf 13:55, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

another box

This user thinks the drama level is at whatever Lemming64 says it is at. Currently it is at level:1

I know you want one! — Seru Talk 17:34, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

LOL! Nice. You should realy use the {{clear}} after you post a user box on a talk page, keeps things nice and clean, just the way my OCD likes it. XD --Wolf 17:44, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I like messing up pages. And that userbox will change pics when Leming changes his template. — Seru Talk 17:50, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

NOT ON MY PAGE YOU DON'T! Lol, I may not be able to edit your comments, but I'm sure there is nothing on me keeping your indents in line! =D --Wolf 17:52, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

What. . . — Seru Talk 17:55, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

will. . . — Seru Talk 17:55, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

you. . . — Seru Talk 17:55, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

do. . . — Seru Talk 17:55, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

now? — Seru Talk 17:55, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Idk, sick a sysop on you for spamming maybe? --Wolf 17:56, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh noes! — Seru Talk 18:01, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I has friends =D --Wolf 18:05, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Missing

Hey, your missing one of the best of DH in there! Where is Undying? :) |Foul Bane| 20:04, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Idk AWOL? I swear I put it in there...... Oh well, Time to go fix it --Wolf 20:06, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh wait, it's in there, look under Not I =D --Wolf 20:08, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Nope, I don't see it. |Foul Bane| 20:13, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok, here is the list:

• My Throat is an Open Grave
• Through the Black
• The Gauntlet
• Beauty Through the Eye of a Predator
• I Play Dead
• Not I
• Undying <-- Look right here
• The Soldier's Song
• Snap Your Finger's Snap Your Neck
• Science of Lies
• One Thousand Apologies
• Lead Us Home
• Fading Away
• Follow the Wolves
• No Reason to Exist
• Grande Finale

You see it now? --Wolf 20:19, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

... Maybe.. (feels not quite as smart as before) |Foul Bane| 20:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Lolz, were you looking at Eloc's list? --Wolf 20:24, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

.... ANYways, so you like Demon Hunter huh?! :) |Foul Bane| 20:25, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I think I've made that obvious by now (dripping with sarcasm) =D Easily my favorite band. --Wolf 20:27, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Lol yup.. Ok, now to change the subject so I can look a little more smarter :). You seem to like all the bands I do. You mainly listen to Christian music? |Foul Bane| 20:32, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Yeah, Here is a list of all the bands I listen to atm

• The Almost
• Anberlin
• Demon Hunter (obviously =D)
• Dragon Force (a little, need more)
• Kutless
• Queen
• RED
• Relient K
• Sanctus Real
• Skillet
• Switchfoot
• Thousand Foot Krutch

I would add Underoath to that list, but the screaming doesnt quite work for me. --Wolf 20:39, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Lol wow... You nailed every single one that I listen too except for The Almost & Dragon Force, but I also like

• subseven
• dcTalk
• Disciple
• Stellar Kart

Hehe I guess great minds think alike. You are now one of the cool people on the wiki IMO :D. |Foul Bane| 20:46, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Haha, kewl =D Haven't heard any subseven, dcTalk is pretty cool, but I don't listen to them much, Disciple I haven't formed an opinion yet, and I havent heard of Stellar Kart. I need to look a little more into Subseven. --Wolf 20:51, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

• Stellar Kart:Innocent, Me And Jesus
• subseven:Emotion,

That will give ya something more to listen too :) |Foul Bane| 20:57, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

kk, thanks. The Almost is good stuff, it's Underoath's drummer as a one-man-band. Check this. I've Heard Emotion now that I've heard it again. --Wolf 20:59, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Cool music, odd video. I need a controller like that guy found lol. |Foul Bane| 21:14, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Lol, I don't think you wanna be a bum or that cap. All of The Almost's music videos are kinda odd, It's a shame he only ever put out one CD. --Wolf 21:16, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

ITT: Cheveeeeeeeeeeeeelle. -- Armond Warblade 21:22, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Boxen

:D — Seru Talk 16:15, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

=D I think I'm goign to have to make use of that box some =D --Wolf 21:35, 21 August 2008 (UTC)