User talk:La Visiteuse/Archive 1

I do not like this

→ moved from Feedback talk:Skill update previews/20110210

Dervish needs this. Right they're terrible. Dervish dies faster than sin, which is absurd. Ramei Arashi 20:00, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

The problem is not with dervishes but with the people who play them. If you are dying quickly, you are doing it wrong. You are probably relying on some gimicky build that someone told you was successful, without understanding it, without thinking it through, without anything. Adrenaline skills go against everything a dervish is. It shows that ANet has ceased to think about their classes with any clarity. They're just playing to the gallery of whiners - the 'I lost so it must because of the dervish and not how I played' crowd. Frankly, it's beginning to turn me off the game. I can spend my time - and my money - on other things and I'm beginning to think that I will. --La Visiteuse 21:41, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Not sure if this should be here or the energy section above... non the less i don't see the issue, my only problem with my dervish is energy management (i dislike generic zealous vow builds), the new upfront energy from mysticism and adren sounds like an excellent idea, the only problem with adren skills is you can't spam them as much as you can atm which is all people seem to think dervish are for... generic attack spammers which for me just isn't fun. As for the dervs dying quicker than sins... i generally don't find that the case, there is a running joke in my guild about sins dyings the most. --Dinsy 22:19, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Dervs dying fast is just a wrong investment in skills. Earth prayers can make a dervish even more resilient than a warrior and you would still skills left for damage. Right now you are judging it too fast, we have only seen a very small part of more than 80 skill changes. Since the dervish is now gonna use adrenaline instead of just energy they will without a doubt have adrenaline managment. Using adrenaline isn't such a bad idea because it allows skills to be stronger without disrupting the balance. If you want to spam attack skills go play a sin and judge tho book by it's cover, just be patietn untill you can read whats on the inside when it's available then you can go and rate it if it's good or not. Damysticreaper 22:35, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

It's probably more to do with the fact (their survival) that other people on your team don't care if you're alive or not. And unfortunately, I really don't see anything in this preview that changes that. I was really hoping there'd be more parallels between this preview and the preview of the Guardian we saw last week. So far I'm not seeing it. Enchanting while moving and inflicting cracked is pretty sweet and all, but there's nothing in here yet that screams '"Oh boy, now we could take a Dervish instead of a RoJ'er / Infuser / Rit / Imba / SF'er / etc...". I'm happy for the potential it might gain now for FA & AB, but in PvE, I don't see anything good here. If anything, this could ruin what remained of my solo farming builds and TBH, I don't play GW for the slowly dying PvP venues and I don't have many friends who do either. --ilr 22:44, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

"Dervs should be broken like imbagons and SF sins and ER eles"

Yeah, okay. — Raine Valen 22:49, 11 Feb 2011 (UTC)

I'm not arguing with ya on that. (fully Nerfing that broken shit) That would indeed be the "perfect solution". Problem is... there's a LARGE number of end-game encounters in PvE that simply aren't even possible for your average full-8-human teams without atleast one of those things. Removing those broken skills means deleting fucking everything they enable and redoing it all from scratch and that's just not gonna happen. The last time they tried it, it didn't even fix UW completely, you still need a SF to do 4 horsemen. Ppl don't like getting together just to FAIL. But playing a Dervish has been exactly that... FAILing to tank properly, FAILing to Nuke stuff fast enough, FAILing to mitigate damage or heal teammates fast enough. It's only been the love of their visual concept that's kept ppl playing them in areas they have no business playing in. IoW: There better be some real Trump Cards here they're hiding from this Preview --ilr 00:36, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Power creep is a bitch, right? — Raine Valen 0:43, 12 Feb 2011 (UTC)

you said it, Brah! --ilr 00:55, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I like what I see so far and look forward to seeing it finished, however, I would like to point out that this seems to put just one more nail in the warrior's coffin. What is better than a tank? A flash-enchanting tank that does massive repeatable AoE of course! 108.75.73.62 00:57, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I think this preview is pretty sweet and I am strongly looking forward to the actual update. I think the playstyle of the dervish is going to become fun again. As for the PvE game, changing each profession so its able to deal with the 4 horsemen isn't the solution. The solution is to change the 4 horsemen, and the rest of UW, FoW, DoA, and every other place that requires certain builds to be completed to be changed so that it is doable by your average full-8-human team. --Musha 01:46, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

As one of the only two people capable of playing derv and enjoying it, I have to say I'm not looking forward to Dervs become a mixture of what... Warriors and Mesmers. Adrenaline was just a warrior, then a Paragon thing, and it worked just like that, now it's for Warriors, Paragon and Dervs by default. Why not give it to Assassins while you're at it? What's next, giving Dervs shouts?

I don't mind the derv specific enchantment removal aspect, it's long overdue. Lower energy costs, adding adrenaline, re working Mysticism etc... so basically a Derv starts a fight at full strength only to increase in momentum as the fight goes on as opposed to tiring down (you just have some Dervish adrenaline skills and energy be damned.). What else can we do? I know, let's throw an interrupt or two in there as well. "Brilliant! Here, have a pay raise!!!!!"

So, I'm wondering where the aoe heals are going to come in? ~~000.00.00.00~~ 02:42, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

So ANet revamps a class with 3 attributes that are total jokes full of skills that are trash - a class which is simply not viable in PvP (barring gimmicks) and most of PvE (sins are better dervs than dervs)... In the revamp, ANet models some aspects of the Dervish on the warrior class (which has consistently been viable in both PvP and PvE due to its good design) and people complain about it? Jesus christ. You honestly want to keep the awful derv with a majority of useless skills, elites that don't do shit and scythes that do more damage in the hands of another class entirely? The hell is wrong with you people? -Auron 03:06, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Well that's the rub, ain't it? They're only giving us the preview of 1 Elite and so far it looks like a knockoff of Blazing Finale minus the longer burning duration at the cost of the 33% run & Holy damage that made Balto such a fun Form... Hell yeah the elites suck right now and there's only 3 of them worth equipping. But I don't see the complaints being about the fact they're trying to change it, the complaint is about the enthusiasm gap... what we're getting instead could be just as pointless as what we had minus the old gimmicks. Where's the "OMGWTFBBQ sky is falling cuz this shit's overpowered" squawking we saw during the mesmer preview? This is a tepid response yo. --ilr 05:15, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

It is quite clear that there are many players out there who suffer from a lack of imagination and it's now the case that ANet is listening to them. Bad players will remain bad players no matter what ANet does, but I don't see why the rest of us should be punished for it. Making some Dervish skills based on adrenaline is a case in point. Warriors can engage in battle and wait for their adrenaline levels to build because they have very good armour. They are not going to change Dervish armour as far as I am aware, but they are going to make them act like warriors. Oh goodie. That's really going to help, isn't it? That totally misses the point with Dervishes. Aura Slicer has now been totally messed up. It's advantage was that if you wanted bleeding in a melee fight, you got it - you didn't have to wait for your adrenaline to build; that's all gone now and cracked armour is no recompense at all. The problem is that there are too many whiners playing the game. There are too many people looking for a silver bullet. They should go play World of Warcraft if that's what they want. Oh, I forgot, soon they will be able to do that and call it Guild Wars as well, when GW2 is released. The ironic thing here is that ANet keeps messing with skills so people won't just copy success and 'damage the game'. But look what's going on with the new version and look at the dumbing down of this one...I despair sometimes, I really do. It's not just the players showing a lack of imagination here. --La Visiteuse 08:38, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Lack of Imagination is not the problem. Lack of Viability is. Crit Scythe and Strength scythe will rape the brains out of a Dervish. And even if the dervish does manage to win in this "Bataille de la Viabilité", it will take tons more effort from the derv than it would from a warrior or sin. I don't know if this will fix that, but hey. Worth a shot. Either way, Putting Aura slicer in a PvE build is bad, and putting it in a PvP build is even worse.--BriarThe Spider 09:08, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

You show the exact lack of imagination about which I was writing. You don't want to put any effort into anything; you just want to bash it with a sword or a hammer. You just want a gimmick to save your bacon. You don't want to have to think about your build and how different skills can work together. You don't want to think about how to build a group that works well together. Aura Slicer is fine as a skill to put in a build; it produces a condition on demand and there are things that can exploit this. Necrosis, for instance, in PvE. Or one can use Fragility, a fine Mesmer skill. So you can work with a teammate or even have the skill itself in your build if you take the appropriate secondary profession. That takes thinking about, though. That obviously takes more work than you and many others are prepared to do. I like Guild Wars, I like it very much, but if ANet keeps dumbing it down, I'll find something else to do with my time and my money. ANet should pay attention to that last bit. You see, unlike many of the whiners, I'm not some 16 year old who can barely wipe his nose let alone play an on-line game. I form part of an older demographic and the thing is, you see, I have more money to spare. I want a game that provides a real challenge, not some game that gives into every whiner who screams 'I can't do it and it's unfair, so you have to change it.' --La Visiteuse 09:24, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) @La Visiteuse have u played the dervish changes? do you know what all of them are do you know that only 9 skills have not been changed for derv? i have played both gw1 with the derv changes and it is awesome. i have also played gw2 and it is awesome yes some parts are not like gw1 but a lot of parts are. but please stfu before you talk like you have played changes that are not even in the game yet. you don't even know how many adrenaline skills the derv has it could be 3 - 40 you just have no idea. also its armor.

as for the warrior you can use 3 different weapons last time i checked with out a secondary that's the only profession that can do that. - Zesbeer 09:28, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't have to play the changes to know I don't like the idea of a Dervish having to use adrenaline. Goodie for you that you like the dumbed down version of the game; judging from your grammar and spelling, it's about all you would be able to manage, indeed, it might even be a challenge for you. And I am not shutting up just to please you or anyone else. This is my opinion. If you don't like it, then ignore it: I am quite certain that you understand all about ignorance. ANet wants feedback and that's what it is getting from me. If this page is supposed to be about singing praises and kissing the feet of ANet's designers and developers, then someone should make that clear. --La Visiteuse 09:42, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

i spelled something wrong Orly? also spelling and grammar = IQ right? oh wait i am dyslexic so grammar and spelling are not my strong suites. but your the one who is being ignorant you haven't even tried the changes. oh and also you miss spelled "armour" and "dumbed".- Zesbeer 09:47, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Okay, Its been a while since I responded to a troll, So I'm gonna go ahead and indulge myself. While doing so, I'm going to break down every bit of your argument, Piece by piece.
"You show the exact lack of imagination about which I was writing." - You have no idea who I am or how I play the game.
"You don't want to put any effort into anything; you just want to bash it with a sword or a hammer." I prefer daggers.
"You just want a gimmick to save your bacon." No, My TEAM wants a gimmick to save THEIR bacon. And if I don't run their gimmick build, I'm kicked from the group. Something I'm sure YOU can relate to.
"You don't want to have to think about your build and how different skills can work together." I run an Assassin. and before that I ran an Axe warrior. Shut up.
" Aura Slicer is fine as a skill to put in a build; it produces a condition on demand and there are things that can exploit this" Or you could stop running second rate skills and use Wounding Strike, You know, Because its a better skill.
"Necrosis, for instance, in PvE." Oh and you're getting butthurt at me running a gimmick? Really?
"Or one can use Fragility, a fine Mesmer skill." Now you're just making me laugh.
"So you can work with a teammate or even have the skill itself in your build if you take the appropriate secondary profession." Or you could stop using terrible skills and pretending they're "fine".
"That takes thinking about, though."No it doesn't. Your team-mate or hero uses Fragility and you use Aura slice and you both do 30 Damage. Together. (Hi! I think you should stop using Terrible skills!)
"That obviously takes more work than you and many others are prepared to do." Or we don't like using terrible skills and would rather use their better counterparts to, you know, Refrain from taking 2 hours to Vanquish a single Area.
"I like Guild Wars, I like it very much, but if ANet keeps dumbing it down, I'll find something else to do with my time and my money."Implying anyone cares.
"ANet should pay attention to that last bit."No they really shouldn't.
"You see, unlike many of the whiners, I'm not some 16 year old who can barely wipe his nose let alone play an on-line game." Auron is like in his mid thirties and has a beard (and an epic one at that). Adrin and Yasmin are married. Shard is a designer. Lets see your resume.
"I form part of an older demographic and the thing is, you see, I have more money to spare."<sarcasm>I'm scared. And so is ANet. Really. We are.</sarcasm>
"I want a game that provides a real challenge, not some game that gives into every whiner who screams 'I can't do it and it's unfair, so you have to change it.'" Balanced is based around pure numbers. upkeep vs output, Damage vs Defense, and and power vs utility. This is also true of Efficiency. And the only whiner I see running amuck here, is you.
Have a good day. --BriarThe Spider 09:48, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

@Briar The Spider [1]- Zesbeer 09:56, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) You've all made your points clear on that feedback page. Continue the discussion here if you wish, but not there. G R E E N E R 09:59, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Clarification of move

The conversation was moved to your talk page as it quickly became repetitive and, near the end, highly off topic. Did I ask you if you wanted it here, or did we put it to a vote? No. But the feedback pages are designed to be clear and accessible means for employees of Anet to hear back from players, and we intend to keep it that way.

You'll notice that your original message remains on the page, as it should. There is also a link provided for those wishing to continue the off-topic conversation which was becoming prominent. To add, the addition of the "moved" template will likely lead more people here to read the conversation than would have before, as few would have bothered to scroll through that wall of text. So if you desired to have your ideas read, you're welcome.

Finally, as I noted above, continue that particular conversation here, not on the feedback page. Thank you. G R E E N E R 10:55, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

As I said, how very democratic of you - oh, and now that I think of it, patronising. As I said, if I had been singing the praises of ANet, this wouldn't have happened. You know, ANet is making a very big mistake here. It is going for the lowest common denominator amongst its audience and these people will not see you through the bad times. You are going for kids, many of them badly educated. They can't even read or write properly, let alone play a game with any complexity. Once online games become the reserve of children, once they are seen as childish things to be left behind when one reaches adulthood, then they will be vulnerable to all sorts of attacks, ranging from government bodies who disapprove of 'violence' to private organisations who have some other axe to grind. It's the same thing that has happened to comic books in the US and in Britain. They are seen as things that are NOT FOR ADULTS and therefore, recently all sorts of terrible laws have been passed about cartoon 'violence' and sex. Here in France, where I live now, comic books are seen as an art form and adults read them. No laws have been passed here about whether an 'underage' comic book character is being depicted in a 'sexual situation', while, in Britain, one was recently passed. It will happen to you, and sooner than you think. ANet has already caved in to pressure to make the Corsair prisoner a 'Sunspear volunteer'. What next? Will ANet get rid of the Drunkard title because it offends some very moralistic people? Will it get rid of the pets because of pressure from animal rights terrorists? You can move my discussions all you like, but in the end, if you want my money and the money of people who could be loyal if you treat them with respect, then you are going to have to listen. --La Visiteuse 11:18, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Not. A. Democracy.--BriarThe Spider 11:22, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

clearly you have no idea what your talking about.

• "You know, ANet is making a very big mistake here." this wiki is supported by Anet (aka they host it and sometimes make posts and that's about it) its members are all apart of the game's community, and are who run the wiki not anet.
• "if you want my money and the money of people who could be loyal if you treat them with respect, then you are going to have to listen." to quote you as to why people don't respect you: "You are going for kids, many of them badly educated. They can't even read or write properly, let alone play a game with any complexity. " as you have said many times to us the wiki community or just me, that btw is a violation of the npa...
• "You are going for kids, many of them badly educated. They can't even read or write properly, let alone play a game with any complexity." you seem to be the one who cant read, me and greener have told you why it was moved and you seem to just ignore it.
• "You can move my discussions all you like," the moving of discussions as i have already said is a standard operation for a wiki. and its done because the conversation is too long and because its still a active conversation and cant yet be archived.

i know these are basics for a wiki and are hard to understand. but i hope i helped you clear up your misunderstandings of how the wiki work.- Zesbeer 12:02, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm not saying you made a bad decision here Greener or that there was ever any bias in it. But I disagree with your the methods shown here. You've Some Ppl have removed genuine Constructive Criticism from a Feedback-licensed page to a page that the Devs are no longer permitted to take feedback from. This could have been avoided by simply removing the latter arguments where it devolved into a hissy fit. As such, I request that we be permitted to move any cogent points back to the proper page under their own sections. Thank you. --ilr 00:20, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

i did that, i mean greener moved only a part of the discussion were i moved the rest. though what i think should have happened is it should have been moved to La Visiteuse feedback space not La Visiteuse talk page.- Zesbeer 00:45, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Umm yeah... that wasn't exactly helping things. When I checked histories I couldn't even tell who was doing what... And if I was really interested in shooting down bother your logics, I would have pointed to all the other Off-topic Subjects on that pages that you failed to also move. But I don't want to contribute to overworking Greener anymore more than he already is. --ilr 01:15, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Indeed, there is quite a bit of offtopic on the pages. However, none of them are single, isolated walls of off-topic text on a scale similar to this case (there have been – they've been moved). It's the difference between eating a red velvet cupcake and eating a straight-up stick of butter: the fat content is still there, sure, but seriously one is a glob of oily byproduct. — Raine Valen 4:41, 13 Feb 2011 (UTC)

Hiya.

I'm Raine, a sysop here on GWW.

I came here to objectively point out a couple of things about your recent behaviour in the hopes that education will lead you to turn off of the road that you're currently barreling down.

First, you're not listening to anyone. Things have been explained to you numerous times, but you've clung fast to your viewpoint regardless of any reasoning (proper reasoning, in many cases!) that's been presented to you because, from what I gather, you're somehow better than the other contributors.

This leads me to my second point: we have a policy against personal attacks, here. It's fine to attack contributions (e.g. "Your post is horribly misspelled"), but it is not okay to attack contributors (e.g. "You can't spell properly, idiot."). You're in violation of it. I'm not blocking you for the GWW:NPA violation, though, because this is a first offense and because I believe that a warning will cause a change in that behaviour; this constitutes an official warning.

Lastly, and most importantly, I wanted to make you aware that large-scale disruption will not be tolerated. You put me very much in mind of a User:The Scythe Has Fallen; you'd do well not to follow too closely in his footsteps.

If you've any questions, you can address them here or, if you want more light thrown on the topic, on my talk page. Happy and civil editing! — Raine Valen 17:03, 12 Feb 2011 (UTC)