User talk:Shard/TADR

I think this article is complete as it is. elix Omni 22:10, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

I love how there is (rightly) a stipulation at the end of almost every thing they got right. It's like, "Hey, good job...but then you fucked it up with [blank]". Then again, they wouldn't be Anet w/o that being true :/ Karate Jesus 04:08, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm hoping if they see it, maybe they will think about doing similar things in the future. They can't learn from mistakes, but perhaps they can learn from successes. ~Shard 04:44, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

(EC) I'm not sure if fixing mistakes would be considered doing things right, but...

• Removing Refund points. This one was a requirement for adding skill templates, too.
• Changing how Signets of Capture work. You had to use them after the boss had used the skill, and before he used anything else, while still being a two seconds casting skill, and you could not decide to cap or not the skill. In other words, if the warrior boss used Devastating Hammer, you began casting the signet and one second later the boss used Power Attack, you would cap Power Attack.
• Adding Balthazar Faction to the game. Before that (which granted, was just a few months, but boy were those loud months) there was no way to unlock skills or equipment other than by playing PvE. Together with how nice it was to capture elite skills, this made someone aiming for UAS to have a very fun time.
• Increasing the faction reward for PvP. I don't know how many times they have increased it, but probably the current faction is ten times what it originally was.

IMO, the above is unquestionably good. There are other things that I enjoyed, but maybe other people don't think they have been "done right":

• Insignia and inscriptions, mostly the former.
• Removing Hero Battles.
• Heroes.
• Most important of all, the focus on team play. Other than some aberrations like solo-farming, Guild Wars is far richer than many other MMORPGS thanks to how each character is always part of a team. This allows for characters like mesmers, who are meant to be support characters and would not exist if the game was meant to be soloed.

Erasculio 04:16, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Balthazar faction was 1 per unique kill when they introduced it. It is now 40 times that much. I agree with you on those first points, but they were small changes not really worthy of mention (except possibly faction). I didn't even know sig of capture worked that way. Was that a beta thing? ~Shard 04:43, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Nah, that was on the beginning of Prophecies. It had its uses; I captured Animate Bone Fiend from Verata in Traveler's Vale, which was only possible because we didn't have to kill a boss in order to capture a skill. But it was nearly impossible to capture stances, thanks to how the skill monitor didn't display anything when an enemy used that kind of skill; people had to keep spamming Signet of Capture and hope they would actually get the stance they wanted.

Some other things I like:

• Small reliance on levels and items: a team of bad players can beat a team of good players in PvP by abusing overpowered skills, but they will not win due to higher levels or better items. This is a given for any game that is aiming to be an e-sport, but actually having it in the game, in both PvP and PvE, is a great thing.
• Map travel: between having mounts (be it common mounts, elite mounts, flying mounts or epeen mounts) and being able to go where I want NOW, I would definitely have the latter.
• No Fire 1, Fire 2, Fire 3, Fire 1512: many other MMORPGs make you keep buying skills you already have in order to catch up with your enemies. Not in GW, at least; someone who buys Protective Spirit in Kamadan can still use that same skill against Abbadon and be effective with it.

Erasculio 05:01, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

meh

I actually completely disagree with your first and last points.
While Guild Wars being free to play made it easy to get into, it didn't suit the game type at all (competitive PvP, not casual PvE), and it severely fucked ANet over later on. Why are there so few people working on Guild Wars 1 right now? ...you guessed it, their poor business model. I gladly pay a monthly fee for WoW, because they continually make changes (and introduce entire raids to the game) that keep it interesting and fun. I'd pay the same for guild wars, but they chose not to accept my money, and thusly continue to offer a stale product.
And your last point... I really, really disagree. The lich was a "mash c space until he dies" fight, where he can res occasionally. Shiro was a "c space until he dies while spamming ridiculously overpowered celestial skills" fight, where the celestial skills were honestly completely optional since he died so easily anyway. Abaddon was a "mash c space and have your hero use martyr occasionally" fight. None of them required positioning. None of them required particularly different tactics than normal. Abaddon had an almost gamebreaking ability (the faggoty ass skill that did KD + daze), but it was used so infrequently that it really had no impact on the outcome of the fight. In the end, they were all the same. To be quite honest, all boss fights in Guild Wars are the same, including each of the final dungeon bosses. That's... sad, really.
WoW's boss fights are way more varied. Some boss fights have you move out of a PBAoE skill, similar to POX. Some boss fights have walls of flame that sweep from one side of the room to the other that each member must avoid. Some fights have members encased in a web, unable to act unless an ally frees them by destroying the web. Some fights have a boss that burrows mid-fight and forces you to fight some trash in the meantime. Some bosses use a Chain Lightning-type spell that can jump an infinite number of times, so your party has to stay spread out. Some fights combine several of these into a single fight, making it an intense battle as you remember to dodge all the dangerous shit, keep up your damage or healing, stay close to or away from party members, and prepare for the next phase of battle, all at once. Guild Wars PvE has never offered that, and it's because the bosses are all "mash c space until it drops" fights without variation.
P.S., P.O.X. was the only remotely fun boss fight I've had in Guild Wars, and it incorporated one of the mechanics I just mentioned (moving out of a PBAoE attack). More bosses need more varied boss-only skills. There is no reason the boss of Arachni's Haunt shouldn't have some gimmicky spider skills, like a web based attack that snares all party members or something that completely incapacitates one of them until his web-covering is destroyed. It's simple stuff like webs on a spider boss that add flavor and excitement to an encounter. It's simple stuff like that Guild Wars lacks in every single boss fight ever. :/ -Auron 05:12, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

The Great Destroyer has the "move out of lava" thing, and while it doesn't exactly burrows mid-fight, it becomes nearly invincible and requires you to kill some common Destroyers in the mean time. The Factions fight against Shiro didn't encase characters in a web which had to be destroyed, but it does send people away and leave in its place an enemy that can be destroyed for the character to go back. Likewise, Abbadon was slightly different from the normal as you can't just c-space him (you c-space the monoliths and then him : P), and against Dhuum there's the whole "fill Dhuum's Rest and come back as a spirit if you die" things. But I agree with your main point, most boss battles (even the big ones) are underwhelming. Erasculio 05:19, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Pve bosses are only that way now because of the retarded amount of damage you can do. That's not a design flaw for the bosses, it's a design flaw for the skills. If you couldn't farm the great destroyer or shiro with asuran scan and spoil victor, there would be something to do. ~Shard 05:26, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

tbh i've never used either of those skills >.>

it's not a problem with damage, honestly. the fights are simply one-faceted. you don't have to do anything to win, you just hit buttons. -Auron 05:31, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Auron. One of the few reasons anyone plays any form of RPG is the fact that every battle is different. Let it be a Sephiroth fight, the Cult Tower, or frankly just look at FF VII. I just finished Kingdom Hearts again, and I sometimes replay the last boss battles not because I feel c00l and pr0 for beating the game over and over (I just lost it), but because they have a flavour. They have that secret ingredient, which makes the battle interesting and varied, something that you really need to do instead of mashing X and sometimes square. If you played KH, you should know that once you beat the Ice Titan once, the challenge is over. But I still sometimes lose to Sephiroth, because he's an amazing opponent. Guild Wars misses that in PvE, and in PvP it's already gone. Titani Ertan 20:34, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

With Kingdon Hearts and all the FF games, Zelda-- the bosses are so much fun to face, each memorable, each different and unique. When FFIV came out on the DS I couldn't wait to see my favorite and most memorable bosses in 3D--like the Maggus Sisters and the 4 Elemental Fiends! I agree with Titan and Auron, its the lack of actual strat tactics...or the lack of any kind of thought that makes GW bosses so lackluster. None of them are particularly memorable, they're more of a blurr in my mind. With such a beautiful game engine, it bothers me that it was wasted.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* 23:09, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Wasn't the battle against Gannon in ZeldaIII atleast 10 minutes long and really repetitive since it was all just "shoot silver arrow --> hit with sword --> and try not to fall off the stupid platform"? ...despite the fact we had atleast 20 different weapons in our arsenal that should have come into play?? I recall pretty much all boss encounters in all these older games being quite similar and barely even memorable. Infact the only one I can recall with any clarity these days was Bionic Commando and that's more to do with the fact it made Hitler's face melt </spoiler alert> which of course was epic and shall never be topped. --ilr 06:14, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Which Zelda? LttP you fight him with the silver arrow dodging fire bats and pieces of the floor falling away...but if it takes that long you're doing it wrong as your arsenal of the magic cape, boomerang and hookshot are all useful in that battle for defensive tactics. OoT you have to fight Ganon without your sword, and that takes tactical thinking--and the boss battle with the twins was one of the coolest, using the Mirror Shield to use their powers back at them. In TP you fight Ganon in a demon form as he teleports through portals. Next you fight him on horseback with Zelda's help, which was one of the coolest and more challenging battles I have ever done then finally you fight him one on one, sword to sword utilizing the various sword techniques/special moves you learn through the game. TP in particular had amazing boss battles--in the Fire Temple you have to pull the posessed goron down to the ground with the chains on his legs, in the Sky Castle the dragon boss was incredible using the dual-hook shot to pull away his armor and doge his attacks mid-air, the Temple of Time usage of the Dominion Rod to crush the spider in the statues grasp was very challenging--but by far the coolest was the Bone Dragon and using the disk to fight him--absolutely amazing. Maybe we aren't playing the same Zelda games?--*Yasmin Parvaneh* 16:45, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, sounds like two different eras, SNES was the last console I ever played. I moved onto PC only and never looked backed. Ironically, one of the best examples of an epic boss fight you probably never heard of (which is known as "the Crucible" or mission 10 of Sacrifice), was made by the GuildWars2 Design lead. I went looking for a well executed Video of it on YouTube but couldn't find any unfortunately. I think the only way to really get an idea of its scope would be to play the whole game and I haven't been able to find any public sources of the game yet even though it's been in Abondonware status for atleast 4 years... *sadface* --ilr 20:22, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

SNES Zelda had the big eye in Misery Mire who had baby eyeballs bouncing around to attack you, you also had to dodge lightening from the momma eye. Blind in the village dungeon was really neat too, he had 2 floating heads. The bosses in Z2 were my most memorable...and the most difficult--Thunderbird had a hidden face and you had to cast the "thunder spell" to make the face appear. That took me forever to figure out. Carcock requires the "Reflect spell", he was cool looking, he reminds me of that red thing on Loonie Tunes.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* 21:56, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Winning VS. Participation

Random question here about where you stand on the whole PvP rewards thing... What level of priority do you give towards actually making points and getting wins(HA & codex), vs. simply participating (HB & RA). -- B/c AFAIK, GW actively rewards winning only(or point farming) almost to the exclusivity of ever rewarding newbs for simply populating areans; yet I don't see you mentioning this anywhere as a T.A.D.R. -- So is it a low priority then or just something you didn't think warranted mentioning? --ilr 22:42, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

So... you didn't win the lottery, here's only 1 million dollar good? Participant ribbons can be farmed. Titani Ertan 05:10, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Participation should be a direct result of how much you enjoy the arena. Nobody should ever be able to farm pvp or pvp rating or titles. Currently, every single arena in the game is there for noobs to farm it, which means every single one of them has been implemented horribly. ~Shard 03:28, 5 December 2009 (UTC)