User talk:Tennessee Ernie Ford/Temp/Elementalist rebalance

From Guild Wars Wiki
Jump to navigationJump to search

All I have to say is; ANet's dartboard must be getting a lot of use. -Auron 09:47, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I expect there's holes in the wall by now. Self + other defensive spells are neat, but I doubt they'll get used in pve or be balanced in pvp. Monster armor nerf is a cool bandaid too. Everything else looks either not useful or broken; I'm not surprised. -- Armond WarbladeUser Armond sig image.png 06:42, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
outdated, but still funny. ~Shard User Shard Sig Icon.png 23:27, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

First impressions on the monster side[edit]

  1. At least Ilsundur, Korshek and Borguus won't get even more insane.
  2. On the other hand, Joffs will become more of a handful, although not so much as to be unmanageable. Still, it's a good thing the Riven Earth ZVanq is coming up in a few days.
  3. Afflicted elementalists will now be able to spike multiple guys to death in seconds, instead of just one. Off to do Tahnnakai Temple before this hits.
  4. Mursaat elementalists might actually command some respect now.
  5. Hooray, thorn stalkers in the Maguuma will be less annoying.
  6. However, the mobs of approximately one million siege ice golems to be found milling around the Southern Shiverpeaks will still be annoying, and now more dangerous to boot.
  7. Duncan will be a tiny little bit less dangerous, but nobody will notice.

Also, I believe I can already hear the DoA Glaiveway teams crying.... -- Hong 10:29, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

I was wondering if the reduction in armor for foes would mean that DwG would be doing just as much damage as before, but because of more foe hp will take slightly longer - but who doesn't waste a few drops of DwG in doa.. User Chieftain Alex Chieftain Signature.jpg Chieftain Alex 12:37, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

The elite Invoke Lightning still looks like crap when compared to Chain Lightning.
Mind burn looks over the top, with a few defensive skills you could probably use it to solo clear stuff as the only DPS source, or as Hong said about Afflicted Elementalists. The groups at Vizunah Square (Mission) and the warrior/ritualist boss room in Tahnnakai will be 'fun'. :P

All in all interesting changes. Could probably use some synergy with the 'new' classes.

Storm Djinn's Haste Storm Djinn's Haste Enchantment Spell 10...22...25 seconds, you move 25% faster, you lose 1 energy. If you're under the effect of a chant or a shout, you gain 1 energy instead. Also affects party members carrying a bundle.
Resonance Blast

5 Energy1 Activation time8 Recharge time spell Deals 10...66...80 lightning damage. While affected by a shout or a chant, RB have 25% armor penetration and hits up to 3 additional adjacent foes.

Conjure Flame Conjure Flame Enchantment Spell. (60 seconds.) Your attacks hit for +5...17...20 fire damage. If your weapon deals fire damage, allied spirits' within earshot cause burning for 0...2...3 seconds when they attack.
Conjure Lightning Conjure Lightning Enchantment Spell. (60 seconds.) Your attacks hit for +5...17...20 lightning damage. If your weapon deals lightning damage, party members within earshot have 0...20...25% armor penetration with physical attacks.

Just some ideas. - Ander01 11:45, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Well what i just noticed is that there are still a couple of very underpowered/underused skills missing from the list: Icy Shackles, Magnetic Aura, Swirling Aura, Iron Mist, Ice Spear, Flare and Stone Daggers and to a lesser extend of the underused ones: Lightning Strike, Incendiary Bonds and Phoenix. With the improvement of cross elements some underused skills can become much better such as Elemental Flame, Earthen Shackles and Chilling Winds to a lesser extend but i still don't see Arc Lightning and Lightning Touch being useful. I do hope these skills will be updates as well in the near future. Da Mystic Reaper 13:55, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
"In the next few months, we'll evaluate the shifts created in the metagame as a result of these changes and make further adjustments to skills that are not in line with our intentions. Additionally, we'll be working a second update to address issues with some of the Elementalist non-elite skills as the elites in this update settle into their places"
Further update will change non elite skill problems. User Chieftain Alex Chieftain Signature.jpg Chieftain Alex 15:44, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
"Mind burn looks over the top, with a few defensive skills you could probably use it to solo clear stuff as the only DPS source". Since the update and developer notes don't mention any changes to Mind Burn's exhaustion, it most likely means it will retain its 10 exhaustion. Which means you won't be able to "solo clear" with it unless you find foes that have less energy than you (even when with exhaustion) and you plan on standing around after every battle waiting for a full energy bar of exhaustion to wear off. -- 19:51, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
"As a Fire spell it made sense for Mind Burn to at least have an AoE component while Mind Freeze simply didn't do enough damage to justify its Exhaustion. We've reduced the Exhaustion costs on both of these skills in order to make them more usable." Not including a reduced Exhaustion (if at all) in the Mind Burn description is likely an error.--Relyk 12:02, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Looking at This[edit]

Makes me want it REALLY badly. o-o This is going to make elementalists play VERY differently, and it looks to be a good difference. The new additions of the doublecast mechanic is sure to make the elementalist a more versatile profession. Derikvyreflame 19:23, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

This was clearly an intentional leak. Everyone knows how good Anet are at propaganda and viral advertising... Prepare for a surge of old players returning in time for their update after reading the notes. 07:32, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
No, if ArenaNet wanted to "intentionally leak" it, they would have used Feedback:Skill update previews. -- 08:11, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

This means another buff for dervishes with their VoS and other damage skills? 10:42, 26 December 2011 (UTC) I don't see why dervish should get another buff, anyway I can't wait to use glimmering mark on any meles in PvP, I know it won't last long but it will be fun for a while^^, dmg+blind, but let's not forget about blind surge, now really warriors will cry in RA ^^ 3 Jan 02:46 (UTC)

Master of Magic vs Elemental Attunement[edit]

Wouldn't this change kind of make Elemental Attunement inferior to Master of Magic..? They have basically the same enchant duration and the same casting time... but... Master of Magic has half the recharge and half the energy cost... and the trade-off is the ability to effectively use any Elementalist skill without even having to slot attribute points versus 20% more cost refund and +1-4 ish attribute points (which is only beneficial to those you've ranked up)... so like, help me out here because I'm simply not understanding why anyone would ever take Elemental Attunement again with this change. I suppose Master of Magic does cap you at a set level, but isn't 14-15 ish high enough for most tasks? 10:15, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm assuming the goal is to make MoM better for a completely mixed attribute bar, whereas Ele Attune would be more geared toward a dual tree (bumping two lines you use often up by 4 points isn't bad, I guess). The Ele Attune change does seem rather bad, since even in dual tree specs, there are usually more powerful offensive/utility elites that would be chosen before simple attribute bonuses. I don't see the new EA being viable in PvE or PvP. -Auron 10:58, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
I'm just baffled because giving Master of Magic most of what Elemental Attunement is supposed to do makes EA that much more undesirable. When I was first reading through these changes I was excited, but the more I read them the more I become apprehensive and worried. I just hope this isn't the exact release we see in roughly a month or so because in the current state there are some... questionable areas. 11:50, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
TBH i still think MoM won't beat EA because EA still returns 50% energy and allows better attribute spread and even push it over 14. Most people would use no more than 2 different elements wich EA would be the ideal skill for. MoM is more for tripple attributes abusing the strongest skills in them, EA more for synergizing certain skills better by reducing the breakpoints of them. Da Mystic Reaper 12:10, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
12+1+x Energy Storage is all you would ever need with Master of Magic so you'd still have up to 12 ranks to fill in with any secondary your heart desired (such as Inspiration Magic), not to mention that there would be a lot of overlap for skills such as Glowing Gaze that would solve any additional energy problems you might have. 30% base energy + spell management sounds an awful lot like standard single attunement builds right now, except in this case it applies to everything. You won't have energy problems requiring the additional 20% return unless you're just absolutely awful with the profession. Attribute spread wouldn't be an issue because Master of Magic takes care of it for you, and energy wouldn't be a problem because Master of Magic takes care of it for you.
Literally the only reason I can think of for choosing Elemental Attunement over Master of Magic with these changes would be in any situation requiring you to surpass 14 in any attribute, in which case (as Auron correctly states above) there are better options in any given attribute. I just don't think there is ever going to be a situation in which having, say, 18 Earth Magic is going to make THAT BIG of a difference compared to 14. It's because of this that I really want/need someone to open up my eyes to the point of this, otherwise I'm just flat baffled. 12:32, 10 December 2011 (UTC) Edit: fixing indent on line break 12:33, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Well, El Attunement gives you back 50% of the energy cost of each ele spell, while MoM only gives you back 30%. Having 14 in every ele stat also only matters if you have the spells to use them. -- Hong 12:49, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
I understand that, but I don't know of any situations in which gaining back 1/2/3/4/5 more Energy is really going to matter that much. It's the difference between gaining back 12+1+1 Energy and 12+2+1 Energy with Glowing Gaze, or the difference between gaining back 7+1 and 12+1 Energy with Rodgort's Invocation. You gain basically the same amount back no matter what. +4 Fire Magic might make you hit harder, but if that's your goal then you can use a damaging elite such as Searing Flames or Mind Blast and achieve a greater effect. It's just incredibly underwhelming. 13:09, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
You seem to be forgetting that it's 14 @ 15. 15 Energy Storage = 14 in all others. Pair MoM with Elemental Lord and you have a poor man's EA + Aura of Restoration, running 12+1+2 energy storage for 15/15/15/15/15/12 (12, being in whatever secondary you want, I'd probably end up going /P myself.) Alternatively, you can use 15/15/15/15/15/9/9 to have decent-hitting spears and full armor from shields, if you don't want secondary skills. I dare say you can find 6 useful skills across 6 attributes. You needn't use all of them, 2-3 gives you enough use of the elite.
Actually, now that I think about it, seeing as changing headgear after casting applies the rune bonus, you could even use MoM if you don't want to split. @16 Estorage you'd likely have 15 in all others. Swap 12+1+3 head for 12+1+2 in whatever element used, have 18 base. Elord + candy or GoEP gives 20. It basically makes MoM like Double Dragon + EA, but for any attribute.
The real problem here is that +2 attributes (from EL) is really only going to be worthwhile when that +2 goes to Fire Magic, in which case you just gimped yourself by not taking another fire magic spell. The same goes for EA - +4 fire magic isn't worth dropping SF, SH, MB, or even RI. Every other attribute works fine at 12 spec, much less 14 - and the root of the problem is that eles rely on casting more spells over casting stronger spells. -- Armond WarbladeUser Armond sig image.png 00:41, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Ward Against Harm[edit]

Assume you are an Elementalist with 15 Water Magic and Ward Against Harm on your bar. (I'm assuming the skill preview lists from rank 0 to rank 15.)

  • Current: 15E 1s Cast 20s Recharge - 20s Duration, +60 armor vs fire, +24 armor vs all other damage
  • New: 15E 1s Cast 20s Recharge - 15s Duration, +24 armor vs all, +24 armor vs elemental, +3 health regen, disabled for 20s

So basically we are exchanging +60 armor vs only fire for +48 armor vs all elements and Mending, a shorter duration and a 20s disable. ... I'm not really sure I like this. The old Ward Against Harm didn't see a ton of use, granted, but it was at least reliable. I don't really understand how 6hp per second (90 health over 15 seconds if your allies stay within the ward) warrants such a huge disable. I almost feel as though this is a nerf, unless I'm misinterpreting the update and this disable is replacing the old cooldown. The new version is essentially "Never Surrender!" mashed into "Stand Your Ground!", plus a little extra vs elements. I like that we're trying to put some healing into Water Magic, and I like that we're trying to give Ward Against Harm more use. However, I feel as though removing Mending, returning the duration to its current state, and removing the disable would be more of a step toward "[making] it useful outside of areas like the Fire Islands" than this version would be. I'm not against skills being disabled; it's just that I think changing it from only fire damage to include all elemental damage is the only change this skill needs to be more desirable. If it really needs the Mending effect then lower the armor vs elemental damage some more. I just can't see this seeing much play (especially with harsher penalties for PvP) - what's the point of a Ward Spell if it can't be used? 12:58, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

AIUI 20sec disable just means that it won't be affected by 1/2-recharge mods; you don't have to wait 40secs to use it again. My guess is that with these changes, ele damage in general will be more prevalent/dangerous, both in PvE and PvP, so they've changed WAH to protect against all of it rather than only fire damage.
Also, has anyone actually used WAH in the Fire Islands in the last three years? As opposed to, say, Sacnoth Valley or Kathandrax? :p -- Hong 13:12, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Now that I think about it I think you're correct with the disable, as I recall something similar with Dervish Forms - if this is the case you can disregard any comments/qualms I have regarding the change to this skill and I apologize. 13:21, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
A-net will probably bollocks up the armor stacking like they did with Ebon Battle Standard of Courage - so that the armor only stacks to +25. I.e. Ward Against Harm would be Mending plus Ward against Elements with an additional ONE armor. lol --User Chieftain Alex Chieftain Signature.jpg Chieftain Alex 13:37, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Hopefully it isn't so.... Also hopefully they change EBSoC.... Wishful thinking! ^^" Derikvyreflame 16:45, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
"So basically we are exchanging +60 armor vs only fire for +48 armor vs all elements and Mending, a shorter duration and a 20s disable." And +24 armor against non-elemental damage (that's what "all" refers to - piercing, blunt, etc.). Before it was useful against fire damage primarily, and all elemental damage, now it's useful against all elemental damage primarily (though lesser primarily) and all overarching non armor-ignoring damage types (with the added benefit of healing). Misread your comment as ignoring the non-elemental armor 8D Neeeevermind. Konig/talk 21:09, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Assuming the armor stacks properly, I'm fine with the disable. -60% damage is worth stacking for imo. The bigger problem is the activation time; canthan bosses can one shot you before you get this up if you let them. I'd really love it if this were an instant cast sure around the caster (and would trade uptime for that). -- Armond WarbladeUser Armond sig image.png 21:23, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Personally, I'd rather WAH be changed to an elite version of I know there's Angelic Bond, but that's more of an AoE Divine Intervention than a true elite version of Angelic Protection.
And really, who uses WAH for armor boost ever since PvE skills were added? For that matter, who uses Ward against Elements? Ebon Battle Standard of Courage is undeniably superior to Ward against Elements, and if high armor is a necessity, SY! is all that's used.
Yeah this is a nice update for the skill but it came like 5 years too late. That ebon ward with +ar directly competes with this and not many bother with that skill. SY! if your a human player or if your rolling with a paragon hero then just use Stand Your Ground! This may be a completely broken idea but instead of armor rating maybe -dmg ? Could end up OP as hell i suppose if people turn around and stack it with armor buffs, the whole point of changing it to -dmg in the first place i guess. Or maybe cannot take more then 20% dmg, or even -% dmg. Justice 10:59, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Ride the Lightning[edit]

"Ride the Lightning: reduced Exhaustion to 5; reduced damage to 10...70; you can now teleport to allies as well as enemies; added the following functionality: "All adjacent foes are Blinded for 1...5 seconds." Teleport being the key word here. Is this being changed to an actual teleport ( )or is this merely a misnomer and it's still going to function as a Shadow Step?

Also, what happens when you teleport/shadowstep to allies? Damage nearly enemies? No damage? Damage your ally? -- 11:41, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Star Burst[edit]

It may be a touch skill but it seems insane to give any spell capable of over 100dmg, In the Area range. 3 that come to mind, Old energy surge but it was armor ignoring, cry of pain also armor ignoring and Deep Freeze but that doesnt come close to 100dmg. 5e, 3/4 cast, 7sec recharge. Wouldnt it be possible to use a team spamming this skill with arcane echo and a QZ ranger or something? QZ even necessary? Would be like a fire magic glaive spammer team build? Justice 09:24, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

PvE, w/e. — Raine Valen User Raine R.gif 19:31, 25 Dec 2011 (UTC)
It's an esurge with slightly better cast/recharge/energy/damage but with the huge downside of being touch range. -- Armond WarbladeUser Armond sig image.png 17:11, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
Not to mention it being fire damage. Hello HM. - Infinite - talk 21:16, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
These same update notes "[r]educed the armor level for Hard Mode enemies" - though with increased HP pools it might even out. I'd still think the damage would come out a bit ahead, but of course it depends on how dramatic the armor reduction is. -- Armond WarbladeUser Armond sig image.png 21:20, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
Not forgetting that the burning increases the damage quite a bit, 4 seconds of burning means + 56 damage more. And if you want to compare it to esurge and the downside of the touch-range SB has a larger range, returns energy, better recharge and better casting time. The pros imo do make up the big con it has. The damage it will deal is still unknown with the upcoming armor changes in HM but i expect it to surpass Esurge. Da Mystic Reaper 21:25, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
I'm not too hopeful. Some gut feeling reduces my hype drastically. But if it rivals Energy Surge the touch range is not a con anymore. Meta already allows casters to be on the frontline in PvE. - Infinite - talk 21:58, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
I never had any real excitement for it but the new SB can make PBAoE work properly. As noted the biggest problem is energy. The high cost and quick recharges reap your energy, SB's energy gain solves that problem. If it's for survivability PvE-only skills solve that with ease with skills such as Great Dwarf Armor and "I Am Unstoppable!". But if there is something i am excited about then it's Lightning Surge, Energy Boon, Mind Burn, Shatter Stone and Water Trident, and truthfully double-cast doesn't excite me either. Da Mystic Reaper 01:08, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
Math on this makes me sad. At 73+ armor, esurge does more damage (assuming 15 dom/fire, which is perfectly reasonable). The energy return is nice if you can hit a bunch of guys (and since it's big aoe that shouldn't be too hard), but I'm inclined to think that mesmers will still be able to blow things up a lot nicer than starburst eles because they don't have to spend time running into melee. 01:13, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
I think the ele will have more oppurtunities to boost his attributes, which makes he skill stronger. See the upcoming update for Glyph of Lesser Energy. I think this will make Starburst and Mind Burn stronger, but with condition that you need to cast a prep. That will make them not too OP and not too weak versus Esurge. 09:52, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
Glyph of Lesser Energy isn't even on the list, you are misreading it for it's elite version Glyph of Energy. Well it cam be used in both PvE and PvP and if you want to look at the builds you can make around those skills i say a build with SB will deal more dps that a build with esurge. Da Mystic Reaper 13:06, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Why do they wanrt to ruin my characters?[edit]

Invoke Lightning always causing exhaustion is not an improvement. And now a second nerf to signet of spirts? Ruin my rit too. Ramei Arashi 22:38, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Neither change are going to hurt you as much as you think they are, and SoS will still be outrageously powerful. [ Tyloric ] User Tyloric t.jpg [ Talk ] 23:16, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
They are going to tack on at least 100hp to all hm foes (anything less is trivial). That plus the reductions to SoS again are going to hurt some. TBH, i always thought of sos as a means of creating 3 spirits to bodyblock & trigger painful bond more then their attack dmg. Could reduce their dmg to 10 and people would still use the skill. Justice 09:30, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
SoS is most definitely a very strong elite, not just for the spirit's function, but also their damage output. Especially since it is most usually accompanied by Painful Bond. This small reduction in their damage makes them slightly less interesting, but only slightly as their positioning and walling properties remain untouched, as you said. I doubt they ruin anyone's characters, though. It's not like the Ritualist doesn't have other viable bars it can run. - Infinite - talk 16:34, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Breath of Fire[edit]

Any hope for changes to it yet?

In it's current shape and form, it tries to compete with AoE heat skills, such as Savannah/Searing Heat. Obviously, it's not worth a skill slot, be it on a PvE or PvP skillbar - small AoE & long duration (easy to evade), long recharge. It might appear 'balanced' across a mindless 'balancing' formula trying to weight single-target damage with aoe potential, duration, recharge, cost and casting time, but it's simply a badly designed skill to begin with. 23:40, 3 January 2012 (UTC) Anonymous