Guild Wars Wiki talk:Elections/2008-04 bureaucrat election/Shadowphoenix

Questions

I have a few questions for you Shadow Phoenix (some of these questions have been butchered off other bcrat nomination pages):

• 1) Are you fully aware of the responsibilities a bureaucrat is expected to fulfill (please elaborate)?
• 2) Have you been involved in any conflicts with users? If so can you demonstrate or explain how you handled the situation?
• 3) Would you describe yourself as a diplomatic user?
• 4) How do you plan to exercise the role and responsibilities of a bureaucrat?

I'm also interested why you think you could handle a stressful situation like being a bcrat, all the examples I've seen shows that you can't even handle being a normal editor, so what do you think about these:

User_talk:Galil/March_2008#Meditation

• "Hiya, Galil; could you do me a Huge favor and block me for about 30 mins so I can calm down a little"
• "If you are too angry to respond without violating this policy, consider taking a short break from the wiki, or contact an admin. I am saving you the trouble of ahving to block me for a week because of NPA. --Shadowphoenix "

Guild_Wars_Wiki:Admin_noticeboard/Archive_13#64.88.4.2_.28talk_.E2.80.A2_contribs_.E2.80.A2_logs_.E2.80.A2_block_log.29

• "Just the fact that I am sick and anyone and everyone on the planet gets on my nerves when I am sick. At this point my desk gets on my nerves lol."

There are some other examples, but that should keep you busy. :)

Good Luck in the election.

-- scourge 04:01, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Some other questions:

1. Why do you want to be a Bureaucrat?
2. What is your stance on Admin discretion?
3. How would you handle the post differently from other users who have held it?
4. What distinguishes you from other potential candidates/Why do you think people should vote for you?
5. What qualities do you have that make you a good candidate?

I'll be honest, at the moment, I plan to oppose this nomination. From what I've seen, you're active and you're involved, but you're not involved at an integral level. While I think your role in fostering a sense of community on this Wiki is important, I don't see that as a quality which necessarily makes you a good Bureaucrat. On the other hand, I rarely see you becoming involved in discussions. In particular, aside from one or two policy debates, I feel that your contributions to the GWW talk: namespace are somewhat lacking. Beyond that, while I'm not questioning your intelligence, I haven't seen anything in your contributions that shows me that you're particularly intelligent/level-headed/impartial, qualities which are of vital importance for Bureaucrats. Like Scourge, I wish you luck, but I simply cannot see myself supporting your nomination. *Defiant Elements* +talk 04:12, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) I also must express my concerns on how you have handled yourself in particularly stressful times. I know you can do well with responsibility, but it seems like your emotions get out of hand and you take text on the screen too seriously. If you adopted a "like water off a duck's back" personality to insults, I'd support you. Being a Bcrat requires much neutrality and detachment, which no offense, I'm not sure your actions have supported these qualities. --People of Antioch 04:13, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Like the others I have to admit that you don't handle yourself very well when confronted from what I have seen and another big issue for me is that you haven't even been playing Guild Wars for more than about Four Months. Can you really say that you have a good enough understanding of the game in that time? Most people don't even have all the campaigns that early on to playing and you've only been on the Wiki since the first of the year. Yes you are active and post a lot but just rushing around typing that you agree with whatever or that you support this or that without actually giving any real contribution to the discussion at hand makes it seem like you aren't the best choice for a Bure at this time. Pride 04:43, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Erm... being a good Bureaucrat has absolutely nothing to do with understanding the game... or even owning it for that matter... I can agree with your other points I guess, but that particular point simply has no relevance. *Defiant Elements* +talk 04:45, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually I do think that knowing the game is important because this wiki is about GW and for GW and yes while it might not matter as much when resolving issues and making decisions for sysops and such I still think that a good knowledge of the game is required to do the job well. A Bure from the Buffy wiki would have some skills here if they were to become a Bure here as well but they'd untimatly be at a huge disadvantage when trying to help people when talking about GW related things. Plus by being with the game longer you show that you are actually dedicated to the game and not just some new user who's only been around for a couple months and who might get bored with the game shortly down the line and end up walking away from it or even just some fairly new person looking for the prestegis title or the athority that comes with it. Pride 05:11, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Dedication to the game is also unimportant (look at Tanaric for instance). Being a Bureaucrat means two things: it means that you have the authority to appoint/demote Sysops and you sit on ArbComm. Knowing something about the game has absolutely no bearing on either of those two things. Helping people with GuildWars questions is something that you might do as an editor on GWW, but it isn't something that is specifically relevant to being a Bureaucrat. To take your example of a BuffyWiki Bureaucrat, while he might be at a disadvantage when it came to editing, he would not be at a disadvantage when it came to being a Bureaucrat. If you don't know, I'm a Bureaucrat on PvXwiki. I stopped playing the game about a year ago (i.e. before I joined PvXwiki), but if you ask most PvXwiki people, I'm pretty sure they'll tell you that I'm a pretty good Bureaucrat. *Defiant Elements* +talk 05:14, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm just not sure that most people would be comfortable with the knowledge that the Bure with all that power on their wiki doesn't enjoy playing the game themselves. It brings into question why you do it if you get nothing out of the game. If she isn't dedicated and ends up quitting like you did then why would she still want to hold a poition of power in the game's official wiki? If she just wants the athority, power, and attention that the position gives then that's not a great reason to elect her into the position or let her maintain it. There is also the fact that she is still so new to the wiki and so far I haven't seen any truely productive contributions from her yet when looking over her posts. It might just be me but I don't think people would be so comfortable with such a new person who has yet ot prove their longterm dedication to the game and the wiki. Pride 05:24, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Well... I can tell you why I do it (also, just fyi, there's plenty of precedent for Admins who don't play the game). Being involved in the game and being involved on a Wiki are two very different things. I don't terribly care about the authority/power/attention, simply put, I care about the Wiki itself. I'm a part of the Wiki community, I have friends on the Wiki, I have a stake in its continued success because I've been a part of making it successful. Once you're part of the community, caring about the game and caring about the community become so far removed that they might as well never had anything to do with each other in the first place. Whether or not SP is too new to the Wiki itself is a perfectly valid question, but I maintain that newness to the game is irrelevant as it has no bearing on the manner in which she would conduct herself as a Bureaucrat. *Defiant Elements* +talk 05:31, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I am a bureaucrat. I do not enjoy the game, and have played it only occasionally since beta weekend events. Nobody has seemed to mind so far. —Tanaric 05:33, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict x4) First I want to thank you Scourge for asking these questions.

• Are you fully aware of the responsibilities a bureaucrat is expected to fulfill (please elaborate)?
  • Yes, I am fully aware of the responsibilities a bureaucrat is expected to fulfill. I am to decide whether or not users should be appointed administrative status, I would be a formal member in the arbitration committee, I am expected to respond to any and all questions on my talk page and/or e-mail involving Guild Wars Wiki, I am expected to consider the community before taking action, I am expected to explain myself when you my powers as a bcrat.
• Have you been involved in any conflicts with users? If so can you demonstrate or explain how you handled the situation?
  • Yes, I have been involved in user disputes (as most users have). In some situations I handled them well, and in others not as much. I believe that I can keep a control on this in the future (and currently if need be). If I was to be elected as a bcrat, you can rest assured that I will handle discussions in a manner that a bcrat should.
• Would you describe yourself as a diplomatic user?
  • Yes, I would. I can always handle myself in situations that may be sensitive to some users. I usually have an exceptional skill in dealing with situations with other people (I am a people person). I really have not come across a situation in which I have offended a user (except when I mentioned someone I shouldn't have to Ryudo by mistake, which my have offended him; but it was in no way intentional).
• How do you plan to exercise the role and responsibilities of a bureaucrat?
  • If I was to be elected, I would make sure to consider policy and the community's feeling towards a subject before taking actions as a bcrat. I would make certain to leave my personal feelings about a situation and/or user out of it before taking actions as a bcrat (as bcrats must be neutral in all situations). I would abide by all policies (as even normal users are expected to do), provide a way for private contact (which I already have), I would not consider myself to be any different from any other user on Guild Wars Wiki.
    

• Meditiation
  • Honestly I thought I was taking the responsible way out there (some people do not agree with that for some reason). Of course I most certainly would not have violated GWW:NPA (and did not), I was simply asking to avoid the possibility of me doing so. I did end up takign a break from the wiki for a bit, and all was calm.
    

• Admin Noticeboard
  • Well that was a joke (hence the "lol" at the end), I really do not get mad at the world when I get sick.
    --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Shadowphoenix (talk).

Regarding your answers, can you provide any evidence that you would indeed act in the manner which you describe? *Defiant Elements* +talk 04:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

You are no doubt a valuable contributor to this wiki. However, I feel you are as of yet a bit...how to say...immature. You constantly praddle around with little projects, and also seem to force your opinions on other people a bit too much. Im afraid that I too will have to oppose said election. Auron maybe a self admitted asshat, and I dont think I could stand him on a personal level, but I think hes the kind of person we need as a buru.--Ryudo 04:59, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) hmmm, I guess [1], here, here, here, and here. If I find anymore I will post them, but atm ima gonna go im tired. Thanks for the feedback and goodnight guys! --Shadowphoenix 05:04, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm... I'm not sure I get what those links are supposed to be telling me about you. They appear to indicate that you're friendly/helpful... but I'm not sure I see how they show me that you'd make a good bureaucrat. I was thinking more of a link which shows how you responded well to a tense user conflict that you became embroiled in (or perhaps one which you avoided rather than become embroiled in it) or a similar situation which you helped to diffuse or something along those lines... *Defiant Elements* +talk 05:10, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

DE, I don't now why you keep editing the same paragraph without making a new one. And keeping calm...maybe the J.Kougar problem , is a good example? Dominator Matrix 05:22, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Meh... I wrote a response... then decided I wanted to add something else, etc. Also... *Goes to look at SP's involvement in the J.Kougar situation.* *Defiant Elements* +talk 05:25, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict x2) Well, I did withdraw from the conversation on J. Kougar's talk page; and Aiiane's talk page about J. Kougar. I really did not want to get into a user dispute, and decided to end commenting on the subject (yet he still states that im stalking him :P). To be honest I think I have only really gotten into 3 or 4 of those types of situations on GWW, so not much evidence to present here, but the first link shows how I handled an NPA violation (which did not go any further than what is in that link). Oh, and in response to Ryudo, could you provide an instance where I have been immature (other than my jokes, which are all just for fun). Also, the only really opinion thing I can think of is, Guild Wars Wiki:User pages/Change 1, and I was not forcing anyone to agree with me (everyone is entitled to their opinion); but I was trying to persuade them to see my point of view on the subject (which is what you try to do when you implement a change). I consider my projects, more or less important; so yes I am always making up new ones and always messing around with them. But as I said everyone is entitled to their opinion. --Shadowphoenix 05:29, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmmmm... I suppose it's to your credit that you chose not to further involve yourself, but I also see no evidence that you tried to diffuse the situation or reason with J.Kougar. And maybe I'm reading too much into this, but while it's one thing to tell someone to stop feeding a troll, to be honest, I found the means by which you exited the conversation on Kougar's talk page to be somewhat dismissive, and it's that attitude, I think, that exacerbated the situation. Hmmm... I'll have to think more on this issue... *Defiant Elements* +talk 05:36, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I think ur refering to "ha, now im laughing. Im not gonna feed this troll anymore Im done", was I not telling the truth? The reason I did not try to diffuse it is because I found no reasoning with him, he seems to be very persistant (even still). I have not even involved myself in the ArbComm and I do not plan to unless I am asked to do so. Many users/sysops tried to diffuse it but there was no reasoning with him. --Shadowphoenix 05:52, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not questioning whether you were telling the truth or whether it would have made any difference had you attempted to diffuse the situation, I'm merely wondering whether you're comment was perhaps a poor reaction given what Kougar was complaining about. *Defiant Elements* +talk 05:56, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Well I do have to agree that the comment was a bit harsh, so I agree with you (in a sense). If I would have seen any kind of a chance of diffusing it I would have went for it, but I did not (and am yet to see) that chance. :o) --Shadowphoenix 05:58, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough, I'm just not sure that I want a Bureaucrat who when he sees a "hopeless" situation gives up on achieving anything positive and instead reacts in a potentially negative manner. In my opinion, in that situation, a Bureaucrat should have chosen to not respond at all (in order to avoid potentially exacerbating the situation), or, better yet, attempted a variety of techniques to reason with Kougar personally. *Defiant Elements* +talk 06:02, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually that's not a very good example for you. I looked into it and wow did I find a lot more than I expected to but after looking at the two talk pages involved and then the request for Arbitration is seems that you have been accused of trolling his posts (which I don't know how much truth is there since those posts were greatly removed) but I can see where you engaged in an argument with him on his talk page and then said you were walking away only to come back again and make another post about it later and say again that you were done with the issue but then you came back a few more times on other pages about J. Kougar and kept it up until he accused you of stalking on the admin board a few days later.

That doesn't show that you know when to walk away very well, and on Aiiane's page you claimed that "I have nothing against you, I never said I did not like you, but I did not like your constant NPA violations against Gaile." when responding to him but on that I have to wonder why it was just Gaile you wanted to defend and not all users in general. Plus looking at the other stuff on the pages and the Arbitration that J. Kougar is involved in there was only one NPA violation against Gaile and it's being questioned. So how you came to the conclusion that he was making constant violations instead of the one, I don't know, but the rest of the sysops involved did not seem to notice or comment on other violations by that user.

Overall after looking at that mess I have to wonder about your knowledge of the NPA rules and your actual willingness to back out when you need to since your attitude in that situation seemed to escilate matters instead of helping. If you claim you are going to step away from a conflict with a user then it's best not to continue that conflict for several days afterwards. Pride 06:03, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Ryudo in that you lack the maturity level and objectivity required to be a bureaucrat. I also believe that bureaucrats should be more articulate than I have seen you be, but this comes with maturity, so while I will probably have to oppose you on this vote, perhaps you will be more ready in the future. Kokuou 06:31, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Shadow: The episode of Kougar does strike me as one that could have been better handled by all parties involved. Kougar may have been over the line, but he was given very little warning before being banned. Of course, that really wasnt your fault. The fact that you feel the need to post a comment reminding about Raptors, which was a touchy subject in the past, on every talk page that gets blanked and that you notice screams immaturity to me, and the fact that you did it on MY talk page was just plain rude. Even after I asked you not to you still felt the need to post something. Ever occur to you that maybe some users blank their talk pages because they prefer to have them blank? Also, the fact that you seem to insist that the entire wiki delve face first into and place on the community portal every little project that comes into your head also seems a bit much to me. This is a place to have fun, I suppose, but first and formost it is an informative, accurate documentation about the Arenanet game Guild Wars. I don't think you could keep this in mind first and foremost as a buru, sorry.--Ryudo 06:33, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

P.S. For the record, I would be an absolutely awful buru or sysop, hence why I would never run for office, so dont think Im saying this cause I think I could do a good job. Under my hand this wiki would become a cold and harsh place, much like Hiliary Clinton's....erm....lower area.--Ryudo 06:37, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree completely, the J. Kougar situation could have been handled better, and despite what is being said I did stop commenting on J. Kougar, my last post on his talk page was 03:03, 1 April 2008 (UTC); which is the comment I stated above. Then I posted on Aiianes talk page because I was informed that something similar had happened and I was pointing out the similarity to Aiiane. Then I later defended myself when he said I was harrasing him, even though my last post at all was on 17:39, 1 April 2008 (UTC) on Aiianes talk page, so im a bit confused at how I was harrasing him. Oh and Ryudo, I apologized for that already, as I said it was a mistake and was not in anyway ment to offend you. I have only done that twice btw. I do not think that being a bcrat means you cannot joke around, I have seen other bcrats make jokes and such. If I was to be elected, I would not stop making jokes, having fun, and making projects on GWW; if I lose your vote because of that so be it. On to Pride, I actually have proabaly read GWW:NPA 50 times or so, if I think someone violates it I go and look at it, or if I need to reference back to it for some reason. In GWW:NPA it states "Insulting or disparaging an editor is a personal attack regardless of the manner in which it is done" which is exactly what J. Kougar did in his posts on Gailes talk page. So I do infact understand NPA imo. To DE, I do agree that some of my comments on there could have gotten a little negative. On to Kokuou, thank you for believeing that if this does not work out that it may in the future (and I think I covered what I thought about the maturity thing above). Well Thanks For The Feedback Everyone! :) --Shadowphoenix 07:55, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

First to the links, you gave above; In my opinion they only show that you help when there is something about your projects. I always read about problems with "your template" or something like that. I think you are very "your project"-fixed; for example I saw you nearly only posting on policy pages where you had a problem with, for example your user page draft.. As long as you don't show more activity on other pages, I don't think a bureaucrat position is good for you.
Apart from that I have some other things I would like you to comment about:

• discussion on the Birthday project page about crediting you for the idea
• Community portal discussion where you took the discussion about The Horn and community projects rather personally

Thank you. poke | talk 20:53, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Poke, I think I have explained myself on both of those already, but I will comment further if you would like :o). In the first one, I "caved" for lack of a better term, because I saw that the credit really was not all that important. The second, I did not take it personally at all; the discussion was originally about the horn so how could I take it as personal since it really was more or less about the horn. I did oppose removing community projects from the CP, and still do. :o) --Shadowphoenix 22:02, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Getting ahead of ourselves?

For one, as per some of the quotes above, you fly off the handle some times. Two, what makes you think you'd be a good bureaucrat when you have never been an admin, or for that matter, anything in which you were in a position of power. Helping people out with userboxes, isnt exactly what I think a bureaucrat is around for. Finally DE Ran for bureaucrat status and didnt get it, and hes just about 100x better than you, and has proven himself a good one on PvX. Soooo I guess what i'm trying to say is, this type of thing is not a popularity contest, just because a bunch of people said, "OH YOU SHOULD TOTALLY RUN FOR BUR" doesnt mean your qualified for the position. Seeing as when push comes to shove, these people arent going to be able to prove that you are qualified enough, or give good enough reasons other than that they like you.--Shadowsin 10:56, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Well I have to make my comments brief I cannot be on for much longer. Not on the people on my talk page were the ones who encouraged me to run. As the policy states, one does not have to be an admin to be a good bcrat. I agree that DE should be some sort of admin on here, bcrat or sysop; I think he would do a wonderful job at it. Honestly, I hold no user (including myself) to a higher standard, so I would say me and DE (as well as every other user) are on the same level. I know it is not a popularity contest, and I have never (nor will) seen it as one; if people do not think I qualify, they can oppose, I do not mind. I know this is a aerious position and if I was to get it I would take it as one. --Shadowphoenix 22:02, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Wrong Personality for the Job

I've never seen this user deal with a situation that involved her in a calm manner. You seem to like people who agree with you, and dislike anyone who doesnt (and god help someone who doesnt like your projects). I do not believe you are level headed, and I do not believe you have an accurate sense of who you are or of situations at hand. A Bcrat shouldnt be ruled by emotions. I think you try to do the nice thing usually, and I dont think you are an awful person. You just are not qualified be an admin or bcrat.--riceball 19:46, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm still not sure who i should vote for but she seems ok --Blood Anthem 20:34, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

To riceball, please look through my contributions again; there have been plenty of times when I have handled situations in a calm manner, here is an example. Many people do not like my projects, and that is fine I have no problem with those people (including Auron, I still don't really have a personal problem with him). Well I do not only like people who agree with me. Brains12 and I have gotten into arguments in the past and he is one of the people I like best on the wiki, I have also disagreed with Lemming64 and I have no issues with him. Of course I do like some of the people who agree with me, but it is not soley restricted to them. Blood Anthem, I hope you can decide where to place your vote :o). Thanks For The Constructive Criticism Guys! --Shadowphoenix 22:02, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry Shadow but i have to agree with riceball. You're completely unsuited for being a bureaucrat. Maybe a sysop when you learn to calm down and deal with things without flying off the handle but certainly not a bureaucrat! -- Salome 00:27, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

then who would u vote for? --Blood Anthem 00:29, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm...out of the current candidates probably Rezyk. Although i have alot of time for Auron, I just think his personality and people management style can be too abrasive at times and not really one for tact or compromise. However out of the current 5 proposals, IMHO the only 2 even worth considering are Rezyk and Auron. Although im hoping some of the active sysops ( as can be seen here) put themselves forward as personally I think any of them would be far better choices. -- Salome 01:27, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Can we say "No" in twenty different languages?

I like a couple of Shadow's projects, they keep the wiki a little bit alive. Does this qualify her for a position in power? Hell no. This is the same sense that a seven year old who can play games and win the spelling bee should not lead the NRA. Not only that, I can remember one event where Shadow completely flipped out on people on the account of credit to the B-day wiki project. Sure, it was handed off as an official project but we all KNOW who started it. Too many problems. I will most definately oppose.- Vanguard 11:28, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

否

Nr

Non

Nein

No

No

No

いいえ

아니다

Não

Нет

Αριθ.

Well thats all I got lol --Myria83 18:22, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

As with Saying Hello in twenty...You people COMPLETELY miss the point. Entirely.- Vanguard 13:34, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I Do Not Think I Am Ready Yet

Well, allot of you made great points during this discussion. I think that I need work on somethings before I try for adminship. I don't think I am ready for an admin postion just yet, possibly in the future. Maybe if I work on some of the things that you all have talked about I can become and administrator one day, but not yet. I want to thank all of you for making your points, you criticism really made me think. I have a lot to work on before I can become any sort of admin, I wish the best for the other canidates. --Shadowphoenix 12:28, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

This was a good choice. Beyond this, though, you should consider: Why do you want to become an administrator (in any capacity)? I noticed you asked some people who you thought "deserved" to be bureaucrat about their ideas. The use of the word "deserved" bothers me, because it's not a position of honor or prestige. It's a role, a task, and a burden. You don't honor the sewage treatment workers, the garbagemen, or the janitors, but those people do an essential task that allows everyone else to continue their lives unencumbered. The admin team acts in much the same capacity.

I've been very careful over the last three years to never to use the word "promotion" when appointing somebody to a sysop role. It's not a promotion -- you haven't "leveled up" on the wiki. It's an appointment to public office, in which you do a thankless job only because you feel it's a job worth doing.

—Tanaric 15:50, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Well put Tanaric. --People of Antioch 00:43, 9 April 2008 (UTC)