Talk:Chain Combo

Combinations

Stone daggers + flare alternation GOGOGO --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 174.4.34.209 (talk) at 01:18, 2012 July 1 (UTC).

Great, yet another Ele flux. Mogget 01:22, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Watch out, Koda might find this offensive. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 174.4.34.209 (talk).

More like a Dervish flux, they can build up full stack of bonus before the match begins and easily maintain them by altering between scythe, ias and flash enchants... in other words play normally with whatever already op meta bar they already currently run. Ele's on the other hand have to alter builds considerably and make sacrifices in skill slots and/or energy management primary attunement or their elite slot for Master of Magic or Elemental Attunement. Zencow 03:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Go Pious Renewal dervs and Master of Magic/Elemental Attunement eles. Da Mystic Reaper 11:16, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

RoJ monks

Rejoice! rotate between RoD and Patient a few times and you no longer have to bring a Superior Smiting Rune to JQ! (For this month only) Zencow 03:28, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Well that would increase the time it takes you to reach the quarry by 6 seconds (6 casts of 1/4 second spells with 3/4 second aftercast), which can injure your capping efficiency. Random Weird Guy 11:35, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Only the first run though. As long as you are smart enough to maintain your combo after the first time you'll only need at least one skill use between RoJ (which can be "Fall back")but thats assuming no one tries to kill you between caps. Screw up and its another 30 energy (and subsequent 21.5sec energy recharge time) to boast the flux again. You'd might as well stick with the Sup.Rune. -Wrei110.175.241.56 13:38, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

The thing is, you don't have build-up a full stack to kill a shrine with a 14 smite. You only have use 3 skills before RoJing and it will do the golden 48 dmg per tick required. Then there's the middle ground at major rune where you only need 2 skills. 60.234.212.190 01:21, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Effect notes

Tested flux. The bonus is added when the skill's damage is applied, not when its cast. For example: Trapper lays out several traps with no bonus, then goes and alternate spam two skills of different attributes, Foe then triggers trap and flux bonus is applied to traps. Therefore when casting delayed damage spells (like Fire DoT-AoE ones), be sure not to screw up your combo such that you lose your flux bonus before the whole spell damage is complete. BTW, love this flux. You can take full advantage of it by using any low cost, quick cast (preferably self or non-foe target required) skill of a different attribute in between you regular casts. I easily exploit it during my daily Zaishen trappings. -Wrei110.175.241.56 07:33, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

I take it this affects all types of damage while it ignores things like health loss, unless there's a bug? Random Weird Guy 11:33, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Seems obvious, but tested anyway. Results as expected>> Not affecting: Self-health loss, foe health loss, health sac, health steal. -Wrei110.175.241.56 14:00, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Do you keep the bonus you have built up after death? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 173.25.224.20 (talk).

Tested in Isle of the Nameless (PvP) and the answer is yes. --Silver Edge 04:58, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

What's when

We use non-attribute skill? By the way, poor assassins which usually use only dagger mastery skills... 89.75.129.15 11:45, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Non-attribute is considered a single attribute for the purposes of this flux. A non-attribute skill will increase the damage scalar, and two non-attribute skills in a row will reset it. MA Anathe 11:52, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Assassins probably get the most out of it by using Unsuspecting Strike after charging up 85.178.216.200 13:48, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

If you are still doing straight dagger chains despite the flux, then you haven't given it much thought. Example>> Take a stance (some people like frenzy heheh) and use imediately after Lead attack. Then offhand, follow-up with 'Disrupting Dagger' to interrupt, followed by Dual attack. Malicious Strike is a 'critical strike' skill and can be used as an additional mid-chain attack. Dancing daggers is a Deadly Arts spell that counts as a Lead. Being able to maintain the flux bonus is worth the trouble of reordering your attack pattern. -Wrei110.175.241.56 14:55, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Not forgetting you also have Twisting Fangs in Critical Strikes and Vampiric Assault in Deadly Arts. Deadly Arts also offer good skills that can replace Leads and Off-hands and offer good damage support, so sins are able to benefit this flux quite well.

The combo of Wastrel's Collapse > Unsuspecting Strike > Fox Fangs > Twisting Fangs > Iron Palm > Falling Lotus > Critical Strike is working quite nice for me. Da Mystic Reaper 14:59, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Sup? — Raine Valen 23:51, 25 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Where is the healing aspect?

Healing monks should receive a stacking bonus for the same concept. Cmon now!

^(Plz sign). Then what? Have monks alternate between prot and heal spells? That requires so little effort since many have learnt to do so anyway. OP so no thanks -Wrei110.175.241.56 15:00, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Because Dervishes clearly aren't used to alternating between scythe skills and enchantments? Random Weird Guy 15:50, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Not the point since any monk can out heal more than 1 opponent in general (or do you think most pvp teams pick out 4 monks?) -Wrei110.175.241.56 16:01, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Key to winning is protection, any decent monk has skills to reduce damage to make healing easier and i don't see a need to improve healing with a flux that improves damage. If it also buffs healing believe me when i say it that there will be no need for monks during the flux. Da Mystic Reaper 17:11, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Remember Massive Damage? Yeah, anyone who said that healing shouldn't be increased with damage is wrong. The Flux SHOULD be, "increases your attributes by 1 whenever you use a skill from an attribute different from the last skill you used; resets if you use use two skills from the same attribute", because that balances healing and protection against damage (in small arenas, at least; in GvG and HA, backline mostly carries one attribute). — Raine Valen 15:17, 5 Jul 2012 (UTC)

That would be hard to balance since not all skills scale up 'effectiveness' with increasing attribute the same rate as every other skill. Attribute points would become meaningless if everyone could run around with full 20 in all attributes (although I would love the idea of having my ranger spam skills with almost no energy cost). Don't even compare Massive damage to this flux since you actually have to EARN the damage bonus and encourages attribute splitting to take advantage of which your mentioned traditional backliners can't make use of. The purpose of the flux is to shake up established meta skill usage(although dervish already has it easy) to reward a playstyle that is otherwise not as powerful and efficient as playing a dedicated attribute line. Reaper has the right idea on putting more emphasis on protection to mitigate damage. Increasing the healing would make the flux almost pointless since this occurs regardless of flux presense. -Wrei110.175.241.56 12:33, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Warriors and Dervishes do +30% damage pretty much forever. Rangers stack it pretty well (though not as easily as warriors or dervs), as do mesmers. Eles can drop AoR before spikes for 5%. No one uses paragons, but, if they did, paragons would be wallowing in bonus damage. Point is, everything in the game is more effective (even if only slightly)... except monks. Just as was the case with the Massive Damage flux. They're comparable.

Attribute points might be harder to balance than straight damage/healing increase. But it's more balanced than "damage goes up and counter-damage stays the same". — Raine Valen 1:35, 7 Jul 2012 (UTC)

If I am only allowed to lose 80 health at a time, it doesn't matter if you deal 80 damage or 800 damage or 8000 damage, I am only going to lose 80 health. Prots will always outweigh pure damage. Tancred Spitfire 18:59, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

No one uses Protective Spirit because it's still worse than other skills that don't keep up. The issue isn't just that axe crits deal 100 damage instead of 75, but axe hits that would deal 25 are now 30, and 40s are now 50-somethings, and so on and so forth. Even if one could maintain PS on everyone simultaneously, damage would still surpass healing under this flux (because that 10e you just used to cast PS? Yeah, that's two Healing Bursts). Same applies for just about every other meta prot: physicals still deal half damage through guardian (except Dervishes lol), but now it's half of 130% instead of half of 100%. Shielding Hands still reduces damage by 16 or whatever, but now it's letting 30 damage through instead of 20. The only prots that could've conceivably been buffed are RoF and Spirit Bond, except only if you suck. If you're using RoF on large packets of damage (like you're supposed to), Flux just means more damage is going over the limit. Similar with SB: if you weren't maxing out SB procs before, you might get more now. If you were already doing it, sucks, now it gets burned through faster and heals for less compared to damage that already triggered it. So, sorry.

No matter how you want to look at it, this Flux has the exact same error that Massive Damage had: damage goes up, counter-damage stays the same. It's a problem. — Raine Valen 23:52, 10 Jul 2012 (UTC)

What are you talking about Massive Damage increased both damage and healing because the damage increase was unconditional. Also why would you need to improve something that does not need any improvement at all regardless of the effect of this flux. When damage is improved by such a conditional effect it does not mean healing needs to be improved as well. Take note that this flux limits the combination of skills and builds unlike Massive Damage and it is significantly harder to achieve the conditional maximum damage unlike the unconditional damage buff of Massive Damage. Given that there are builds wich really makes it easy and some professions can achieve it more easily than others it still remains conditional and does not allow many skill combinations. And as last and again it can be easily countered with some some half-decent protection so just what are you complaining about, increase in damage does not automaticly mean an increase in healing, it does not work that way. Da Mystic Reaper 11:21, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

You clearly read everything I said and ignored it.

"What are you talking about Massive Damage increased both damage and healing because the damage increase was unconditional." "When damage is improved by such a conditional effect it does not mean healing needs to be improved as well."

So make the healing bonus conditional. Easy.

"Also why would you need to improve something that does not need any improvement at all regardless of the effect of this flux."

Have you played monk this month? There's a lot of damage! Healing could kind of use an improvement!

"Take note that this flux limits the combination of skills and builds unlike Massive Damage and it is significantly harder to achieve the conditional maximum damage unlike the unconditional damage buff of Massive Damage."

If the healing were conditional, it would limit the number of healing builds, too, and it would be just as difficult to achieve maximum healing!

"Given that there are builds wich really makes it easy and some professions can achieve it more easily than others it still remains conditional and does not allow many skill combinations."

People are bad at statistics; it's just not how most of our brains work. So I'll share a bit with you: if some damage goes up and no healing goes up then on average damage is higher than healing. And, if the healing bonus is conditional, yo– wait no I already said that.

"And as last and again it can be easily countered with some some half-decent protection so just what are you complaining about"

"No one uses Protective Spirit because it's still worse than other skills that don't keep up. The issue isn't just that axe crits deal 100 damage instead of 75, but axe hits that would deal 25 are now 30, and 40s are now 50-somethings, and so on and so forth. Even if one could maintain PS on everyone simultaneously, damage would still surpass healing under this flux (because that 10e you just used to cast PS? Yeah, that's two Healing Bursts). Same applies for just about every other meta prot: physicals still deal half damage through guardian (except Dervishes lol), but now it's half of 130% instead of half of 100%. Shielding Hands still reduces damage by 16 or whatever, but now it's letting 30 damage through instead of 20. The only prots that could've conceivably been buffed are RoF and Spirit Bond, except only if you suck. If you're using RoF on large packets of damage (like you're supposed to), Flux just means more damage is going over the limit. Similar with SB: if you weren't maxing out SB procs before, you might get more now. If you were already doing it, sucks, now it gets burned through faster and heals for less compared to damage that already triggered it. So, sorry."

"No matter how you want to look at it, this Flux has the exact same error that Massive Damage had: damage goes up, counter-damage stays the same. It's a problem."

Are you even trying?

"increase in damage does not automaticly mean an increase in healing"

No, but it should. If damage goes up, either prots have to get better or heals have to get better. That's called balance. This is pretty basic.

"it does not work that way"

Yes it does. The difference between my statement here and yours there is that I have reasons to support it; yours is straight-up arbitrary. — Raine Valen 11:33, 13 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Aside from the unconditional damage another reason i forgot to mention about the increase of healing of Massive Damage is because it also increased the maximum health of players. If you know monking even a bit you know what that means. It is not the case with this flux. If healing would be increased even orison would be able to heal the damage dealt with ease wich is unbalanced, let alone the elites. An increase in damage does nt mean an increase in healing, an increase in health would mean an increase in healing since have more points to heal. An increase in damage would mean an increase in protection, and that is something does does not need to be changed with this flux.

Asking if i am trying as a monk during this flux, yes i am and i have no trouble with it whatsoever when protting combined with some healing. With that i am rather doubtful about your monking skills if you make such a complain. Oh an gues what, i use Prot Spirit and it works great in such cases.

Healing is not and should be balanced out against damage but is balanced against the maximum health of players. Protection is balanced out against damage. If you don't understand that you have a problem understanding of how the monk attribute work, wich also may be the reason why you are complaining about something that is not broken.

My advice relearn how to play a monk and come back again. Da Mystic Reaper 13:43, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

If I have 500 health and I take 100 damage per second, I need to be healed at a rate of 100 health per second or have damage reduced at a rate of 100 health per second in order to stay alive.

If I have 1000 health and I take 100 damage per second, I need to be healed at a rate of 100 health per second or have damage reduced at a rate of 100 health per second in order to stay alive.

If I have 1000 health and I take 50 damage per second, I need to be healed at a rate of 50 health per second or have damage reduced at a rate of 50 health per second in order to stay alive.

Maximum health has absolutely nothing to do with the rate at which healing is required. Whether damage is healed or mitigated has absolutely nothing to do with how much healing and/or mitigation is required. Whether it's healed or protted, it has to be done at the same rate as damage. Or someone dies.

Your argument is invalid. — Raine Valen 0:34, 16 Jul 2012 (UTC)

takes a lot of effort to argue blindly against math, what is that guy thinking :/ -Auron 03:05, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

It seems like you didn't take my advice seeing you come up with some math as Auron likes to word it. Ignoring the average health of 600 wich players have in PvP and wich remains unchanged during this flux. if you take 100 damage out of the 600 health you would need a spell something to heal that damage yes (Ethereal Burden, Patient Spirit, Heal Other, and a bunch of elites). If you increase damage from 70 to 100 or from 100 to 130 you cannot increase healing from 70 to 100 or 100 to 130 by such method either. The reason still remains protection. A good monk will know how to use healing and protection in one bar and reducing damage from 100 to 60 and to even less numbers outhealing it with buffed healing (ignoring Divine Favor and keeping the 600 average in mind) would become too easy and even more imbalanced and broken than without a healing buff. Even now it is still easy to reduce those large numbers of 150+ and outheal them. But it seems like you still don't understand that you cannot buff healing in numbers equal to damage in numbers, or rather you don't want to understand it because of your own principles when it comes to damage vs healing. Even tough you rage about it the fact still remains that it is unneeded to improve healing during this flux since the damage can still be outhealed with ease if you know how to play the monk properly. Any numbers that try to make it look like damage needs to be equal to healing won't change that fact. Regardless wich view or principles you have about it there is no need for healing to be increased. Da Mystic Reaper 14:19, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

You're a moron. I'm done, bro. — Raine Valen 0:28, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)

I am Raine's biggest fan <3. --71.236.62.138 09:48, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

I guess my bigger point was this: If the flux is focused on increasing damage, then go with it. Why make the flux essentially a 30% increase in healing and damage? Instead of trying to over-heal increasing amounts of damage, increase your own damage output. The best defense, and all that. Tancred Spitfire 23:18, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Oh, okay. I misunderstood because you didn't say that at all. My bad. — Raine Valen 23:54, 25 Jul 2012 (UTC)

No, I didn't say that until I said it, but I meant to make that point before and got side tracked. But the point I am putting to you is still this: If damage and healing were effectively increased 30%, the flux would be meaningless. Instead of crying over spilled health to damage ratio, try making an opposing team cry by increasing your overall damage and throwing in some skills that in other months would be worse than the alternatives. That's the point. When a flux like Chain Combo comes along, it pushes more skills into the threshold for skills like PS and SB to be more effective. Tancred Spitfire 03:02, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

THIS GOES AGAINST MY BELIEF SYSTEM

THIS FLUX I FIND IS RIDICULOUS and offends me deeply. According to my belief system (Guildwarism) I find this inadmissible because the 'chain' in there is too close to ressembling the stuff that happens in Fifty Shades Of Grey. I find this highly offensive and it should be taken off. According to my belief system too, we believe in absolutely nothing. Thus, having a combo meal is the same as having a burger. The concept of a combo meal is too inadmissible because it conflicts with my idea of truth. And thirdly, those too together clash with my views as Meals should not mix with Fifty Shades Of Grey. I ask everyone to join me in a crusade to wipe this flux off the map, and why stop there. Let's get all guilds with any paraphenalia relating to combos and chains to me removed and banished from this world. and I can't sign because that conflicts with my views aswell.

Also I go by the name Kora. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 174.4.34.209 (talk).

That's not funny, that's just weird.173.88.250.197 13:55, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Max vs. maximum

This is probably not even worth the time debating this, but isn't the concise version of maximum "max"? --101.170.127.230 14:05, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Effect for attack skills

Does the damage boost only apply to damage caused by the skill when using an attack skill? Or does the %age damage boost also apply to the base damage for the regular weapon attack? --Combatter 21:55, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

I took the initiative and tested it for myself with Wild Blow - the damage boost is indeed applied to base attack damage. --Combatter 22:05, 13 July 2012 (UTC)