Talk:Crystal Desert Elonian colony

Source?

Where can I find this information? I've never seen anything that gives a specific name for this colony. --Angell Perez 00:46, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

I would suggest asking User:Konig Des Todes. He is the original author of this article, and is very good at spotting and compiling lore. --'Mai Yi' {TC} 00:57, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Go and check the "what links here" for the article. There's only 1 mention of the name itself, but several mentions throughout the crystal desert missions and quests of the colony. -- Konig/talk 01:13, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

All of this seems like complete speculation - the word "Elonia" is used in-game twice in Prophecies and never mentioned in Nightfall. I think when Prophecies first came out, Elona/Elonia was supposed to be this failed nation in the Crystal Desert that everyone has forgotten about, and the continent of "Elona" from which this nation came did not exist. When Nightfall came out, it was more "hey, we have this lore, why not build on it?" than some masterplan to use the continent of Elona from the start.

So yeah, there was a nation called Elona in the Crystal Desert, but when Nightfall came out, it was retconned to be an extension of Kourna. This page just seems like an attempt to patch up that retcon, which isn't our job as wiki users - we're just here to document. By all means, we should have a page for Turai Ossa's colony, but to pretend we have a name for it (or even know if it had a name at all) is a bit too bold for my liking. The word Elonia itself is probably just a text error, people from Elona are called Elonians, so it's not difficult to see how someone could just mistakenly have thought Elonians were from Elonia. The word is only ever used twice in-game, and never in a prominent context. --Santax (talk · contribs) 10:13, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Ghostly Hero (PvE)#In The Amnoon Oasis is the only source I need to prove you fully wrong. True, Elonia is used in one location by 2 mentions. However, Elona is also said in Prophecies, where the folks of the failed settlements of the Crystal Desert came from - or rather, the third to most recent travelers (we also got mention of Margonites, which we know predate Elonians now, Seekers and Ascalonians going to the Crystal Desert, though the last was only confirmed with Nightfall). We know for a fact that your speculation on Elona being a failed nation in the Crystal Desert is not correct. The thing is, we know there was a colony, it's just that a name is never attributed to it except in Elona Reach, and that name is Elonia.

The only thing that could be thought of as speculation is if the Abandoned village was part of Elona, since its never mentioned. Yannel Brunn tells us of the Ancient Weapon found in said abandoned village, which shares architecture designs with Lannur and the Throne of Pellentia, both known to be Elonian. So that's not speculation either, just unstated in words. Konig 01:02, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

I know you can't reply to this, but as you yourself have pointed out, two mentions is not enough to base an article on, when they're suspected to be text errors. But to anyone else reading this: would it be worth re-tagging this page for deletion? --Santax (talk · contribs) 12:01, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Not speculation.

• In the last night before the nation of Elonia was no more, <...>
• Priest Hehmnut was the eldest of the high priests of Elonia

Or does Santax insist that there were two typos, and that Elona is no more? 98.18.21.188 15:49, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

It's perfectly possible for ANet to make two typos, as the GW2W user Konig Des Todes argued not long ago. That user also argued much longer ago that the demonym for people from Elona was "Elonian" rather than "Elonan" despite it being called as such in a War in Krytan update, saying that "It is called Elonan one time, and Elonian hundreds of times. Anet makes typos all the time, nothing to go "Lol @ that" or change thousands of things because of". I assume you're not that user, because not only do you disagree with him, but if you were that user you would be evading a perma-ban on GWW.

Priest Hehmnut was called a high priest of "Elonia" (by interactive object text titled "The Story of Priest Hehmnut" - it's not clear if it's something that characters learn, it's not a note, NPC dialogue or an out-of-game source like the manuscripts). But Turai Ossa was called the Champion of Elona. The Great Ritual Priest at Augury Rock calls that mission's NPC's the champions of Elona. The mission in which the bones appeared is called Elona Reach - not Elonia reach. "Elona" is used throughout the Crystal Desert, Elonia is used twice in a single instance, in two pieces of incongruous interactive object text that were probably written by the same person and that seems to address the player rather than the player character. It's not enough to form the basis of an article. In Prophecies, "Elona" and "Elonia" were the same thing. In Nightfall, the lore for Elona got retconned/fleshed out more. Our job on the wiki is to document what we see in game, typos and contradictions and all - not to try to contort it to make it self-consistent. The basis for this article is beyond tenuous - it's unsubstantiated. At best, it could be moved to "Elonian pilgrimage" and have the discrepancy about "Elonia" mentioned as a footnote. --Santax (talk · contribs) 17:03, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

I'd also point out that if "Elonia" were anything more than a typo, you'd think someone would mention it in Nightfall, GW2, or Path of Fire. But nobody does. --Santax (talk · contribs) 17:04, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Firstly, this is Konig, given I cannot log in to comment. Expecting IP ban in 3...2...

Elona was never the name of the settlements in the Crystal Desert. "My name was Turai Ossa. I was the Champion of Elona, the protector and leader of my people. At the Battle of Jahai, I single-handedly defeated Palawa Joko, the scourge of Vabbi. It was I who led the Elonians to the Crystal Desert." Said in Amnoon. Those two objects, the Ghostly Hero's dialogue, and quite a few others in Prophecies alone make it all clear that Elona (and Vabbi) were distant lands where the Elonians came from. The only name for the settlements in the Crystal Desert we have is Elonia, one mention of the name outright stating that it ceased to be (which the settlements indeed did), and Elona didn't even in Prophecies dialogue alone).

It literally makes NO sense to presume Elonia is a typo of Elona due to the context. An unimaginative name, sure, but that's hardly new.

There was no retcon between Nightfall and Prophecies. Fleshed out more for Elona, yes, but it was always a distant land on another side of the Crystal Desert than north and west. No retroactive continuity changes.

And it makes sense that it'd be called Elona Reach rather than Elonia Reach, given that Elona is the one reaching into the Crystal Desert (in creating Elonia), not Elonia.

If there is any speculation, it is in calling Elonia a colony, but despite never being called such that's what it was.

I wouldn't be so sure it's never mentioned in Path of Fire. Very little dialogue has been documented over on GW2W still and I don't think NPCs even talk much about the ruins of Turai's group. And it was never relevant to Nightfall.

So let me pose this: What would you call the colony that Elonians established in the Crystal Desert, consisting of three different townships/cities (one in Arid Sea, one in Vulture Drifts, and one in Elona Reach)? 150.176.96.3 19:16, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

No matter how you turn this, Turai and entourage travelled to the Crystal Desert, settled there to build temples for the gods, and met their end. Unless all of this happened overnight, they definitly had to stay somewhere. If there are two mentions of Elonia (a name which reminds me of Brasilia in Brazil), it's not unheard that this was the name of said colony. Similarly the names are close enough and restricted in use enough to not completely rule out a double typo. Should we not document as such, instead of trying in vain to persuade the other stance here? - Infinite - talk 23:43, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Yes, there was clearly an abandoned colony, which should be documented. But to call it "Elonia" all over both wikis on the basis of what I think is probably just a double typo (I've seen players mistakenly call Elona "Elonia" many, many times) is ridiculous. The name should be a trivia footnote, a lore discrepancy, or a text error. Btw, you should be aware that this discussion is taking place across two wikis. --Santax (talk · contribs) 17:35, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

That is a lot of text. I skimmed through it and got the most important information from it. Editing as concluded now. - Infinite - talk 19:39, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

"No pages link to Elonia in the chosen namespace."

Related revisions to the article.

I hope this is agreeable until the devs return with clarity on the name Elonia. - Infinite - talk 19:56, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

I still find it laughable you're actually saying that three provinces of Elona were destroyed due to the conflicts in the Crystal Desert. The context alone should be enough to point out that the line isn't a typo referring to Elona. Konig98.18.21.188 23:39, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Infinite, I'm happy with this solution. Btw, I know you think that Konig shouldn't be permabanned, but hopefully this thread goes some way to demonstrating why he is - you did what few people are willing to do and actually chose to intervene by reading through one of these wall-of-text arguments, engaged with it, and then found a compromise. Konig, who's lucky to even be allowed a voice on this issue given that he is permanently banned from this site, immediately spat it back in your face. I can only apologise for his behaviour. --Santax (talk · contribs) 14:20, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

I may be naive enough to not notice it, but I missed any such "spitting it back in my face." Perhaps this occurred on the other wiki. Either way, I have had this empathetic approach to users and disputes since forever. In fact, it is one of the reasons I was appointed sysop on GW2W back in the days. I don't believe that users that have been around voluntarily for such a long time, with appropriate levels of constructivism, are better off banned if they are difficult to get along with. Sometimes that is my personality getting in the way of objective judgement. I personally feel Konig is a user we can still reach effectively. I don't know how, in light of a lot of disputes. I also know that a lot of those disputes are between himself and yourself, per example. There is a dynamic that is quite volatile to you both and ideally the wiki(s) can see you both resolve that.

In the end, all text-based content is up for interpretation. Sometimes that's simple enough, sometimes that is more nuanced and downright impossible without developer insights. In this case it is the last option, so we must stick to what is undeniably accurate and leave the vague areas vague.

Also, while I appreciate your compliment, I would be more flattered if you could also refrain talking another user down to present it. These little jabs at one another do not constructively add to either's standing. - Infinite - talk 16:43, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, you're right - it wasn't constructive. Although I would point out that Konig isn't a wiki user - not here, at least. --Santax (talk · contribs) 12:53, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

250 years later

Just had a look in GW2. The text on the interactable calls them "high priests of Elona" rather than high priests of Elonia. Santax (talk · contribs) 08:46, 29 October 2017 (UTC)