Talk:Panda

Gaile Comments on Removal

Gaile has been kind enough to clarify the removal of this and several other pets from the game, or modifications of pets, in a very comprehensive post on her talk page. I wanted to add it on each relevant page so this information exists out there and clarifies these issues for a lot of people. I will post her comments relating to this here, and people can decide if they want to quote her directly in the article or paraphrase for encyclopedic style and clarity:

We wanted to have a panda pet, particularly in Factions. However, we were looking towards the first level of testing in China at that time, and in China, you are not allowed to even depict the death of an endangered species, such as the panda, in a video game. This caused us to decide that we must remove the panda from the pet list, for it was not appropriate or offer it in other regions and not in Asia, or specifically in China, -- Gaile 01:19, 10 October 2007 (UTC).

I think capturing all of what she said is important because this question pops up for a lot of people and the info on the wiki, the less likely it is to be asked again. 122.104.229.93 03:17, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Here is the link to the original disussion: Talk:Animal_companion/Archive#Fern_Lizard_and_Panda_Pet.3F

122.104.229.93 03:42, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

(re-indent) I wonder if the Panda pet dies from the snowballs.. Woop 06:58, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

That would be awesome to have pics of. -Auron 07:00, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

What ArenaNet could have done, was simple detect if someone was located in China and then change the skins. Then everyone wins. -- Tarun 18:12, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Or they could have made the Panda like Oink. Paddymew 15:09, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

It's totally not overpowered to have a pet that can't die... --Curse You(talk|contribs) 17:52, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

(re-indent) That is complete and utter BULLSHIT they removed that pet, I love the Panda and want to see it come back. Screw the Laws in China!!! If China had an issue with the Pet being killed then they dont have to play or buy the game. Thats like saying all Aircraft are missles and are going to kill us all. Destroy all airplanes! Wow I thought Anet and NCsoft had some sencibility but this is just wrong. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.214.9.244 (talk) at 22:24, 29 November 2010 (UTC).

Please don't shot, I have a bad enough headache as it is. |Killer demon 18:17, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Changing "attainable" to "obtainable." To attain something is to reach something, not to get it. 216.248.89.125 03:36, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Introduced in "2012" not "2011"?

This just came out today right? Bhagwad 04:20, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Correct. I fixed it. •••Mora 04:28, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

So, its now legal to in China to depict animated death for members of an endangered species? --Falconeye 04:56, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

I was wondering that, too. It appears that there are a lot of myths about depiction of pandas. (See also: Tv Tropes.) Short story: there are no laws in China about depicting animated pandas. In fact, many games made in China include pandas. I suspect what's more likely is that WoW had some trouble with the introduction of the Pandarens and ANet decided it didn't need the headache.

Put another way, ANet was probably being overly cautious when it removed Pandas from the game originally and we can be thankful that they figured out a way to bring them back. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 09:25, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Pandaren aren't pandas and Blizzard never ran into any "trouble" putting them into World of WarCraft, those were just rumors started by instigators. However, Gaile claimed they weren't allowed to depict the death of an endangered animal (the panda) when they were first testing the game in China. I don't believe the game is actually available in China anymore so Stumme was probably given the ok to re-implement them. Sounds Risky | 09:37, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Also pandas in Guild Wars pre-date the Pandaren. According to the WoW Wiki article ('A history of rumors') the idea of a panda race was first suggested in January 2008. Charmable pandas in GW was planned for the release of Factions in 2006 and the only one that actually made it into the game (in the ranger quest) was included with the first release. 109.150.170.157 10:31, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

The short story is that we don't know why ANet originally removed pandas from GW1. We only know what people claimed at the time.

Clarifying the information in the sources:

• The WoW wiki credits a rumor that claims 2005 as the year that an outsider saw images of the Pandaren in Blizzard offices.
• 2006 was the first official reveal date for the Pandaren; 2008 is the year of a Blizzcast article that discussed the race's origins.
• Although I trust Gaile implicitly, there's absolutely no evidence to back up what she was told about depiction of Pandas in video games. Instead, there is counter-evidence that supports the idea that China has no laws regarding pandas in games.
• The same WoW wiki article re-iterates the claim that Blizzard did have legal issues around the Pandaren, but for different reasons.

– Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 17:19, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Where to begin? First of all, use Wowpedia. Secondly, the Pandaren were first introduced into WarCraft in the 2003 game WarCraft III: The Frozen Throne (and even existed as a creep in WarCraft III: Reign of Chaos before that) which predates Guild Wars completely, although I have no idea why this was brought up at all. Thirdly, last year's BlizzCon did confirm that Blizzard was originally going to introduce the Pandaren into the MMO in World of WarCraft: The Burning Crusade but scrapped it because the Pandaren had absolutely nothing to do with Outland (which was that expansion pack's setting in case you didn't know). Finally, the real issue Blizzard had with the Pandaren in China was never their government but from fans that didn't like the Pandaren being depicted in Japanese clothing and armor, so Blizzard redesigned them with more traditional Chinese garb instead. Where did Gaile claim there was a law anyway? It certainly wasn't on that talk page. Sounds Risky | 18:19, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Gaile's comment is on the talkpage, it's in the bulletpointed comment (click on 2007 on the main page, scroll down a bit, third bullet point):

• The panda is another issue: We wanted to have a panda pet, particularly in Factions. However, we were looking towards the first level of testing in China at that time, and in China, you are not allowed to even depict the death of an endangered species, such as the panda, in a video game. This caused us to decide that we must remove the panda from the pet list, for it was not appropriate or offer it in other regions and not in Asia, or specifically in China.

Considering this is the time of Factions development we're looking for (late) 2004/05/(early) '06 laws in China. Konig/talk 19:50, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

I already mentioned and linked to that post, but she still never said law. Hell, the next section of that page links to an article showing a city in China was only putting legislation forward for such a law in late 2007 because of some local artist, long after either Factions or The Burning Crusade had been released. The article even states:

"If passed, it would become the world's first panda law."

Simply put, there was no law at the time Factions was being made, ArenaNet simply wanted to play ball to get the game released in China. They also altered many profession skill icons to not depict human remains to get it released there. Sounds Risky | 20:24, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

@Konig: I know what Gaile said, but there's no other source that anyone can find that says that China ever had any laws restricting (never mind preventing) the use of Pandas in video games. Since I trust Gaile, I'm sure she was told that by someone she trusted, but that doesn't make our citation a reliable source.

@Risky: I brought up the WoW pandaren b/c that's also been cited as an issue involving depictions of Pandas. I apologize for digressing the topic by speculating as to ANet's reasons. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 20:22, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

@Risky: I never said she said law, but rather was pointing out the quote because the way you worded it seemed like you were questioning where Gaile's comment on the situation was.

@TEF: My comment was solely directed at Risky. Konig/talk 22:20, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Unless I'm mistaken in reading this jumbled discussion, is there still no answer why they allowed panda pets in the game now in 2012, where they were discluded before? I don't mean speculation on whether it's because of a change of laws/attitudes over time, but an actual reference, please? I'm just curious. --75.17.145.160 21:01, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

There are several links above to articles that make it clear that, at the time Pandas were removed from the game, there were no laws in China or elsewhere preventing the inclusion of Pandas in a video game (for any reasons). In other words, we have to turn your question around: why did they remove Pandas in 2006 in the first place, when there was no legal requirement that they do so?

ANet never provided an original reference supporting the idea that there were legal limitations. What we know is that Gaile didn't (at first) know why Pandas were removed, she asked someone at ANet, they gave her answer, and she promptly posted the paraphrased response.

I am curious as the reasons, but I'm just glad someone figured out whatever needed to be done to put them back in (even if they never grew from their L5 size). – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 11:50, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

I think it's important to note that Gaile never said it was against the law in China. They also had a similar problem with the crane (although that just got a reskin) and again she said the imminent release in China was the problem but not that it's illegal. I would guess the most likely explaination is that Chinas rating board would have given the game a higher rating or banned it completely. (Remember the rules are often different for video games to other media. It's not illegal to depict sex, even to have sex, but the Hot Coffee mod nearly got GTA:SA banned and did get it's rating pushed up in some countries.) Alternatively it could be that they were just worried lots of people wouldn't want to play a game where you're allowed, even encouraged, to kill endangered animals and it'd affect sales.

That's all speculation however. As far as official explainations go all we have is what Gaile told us and I think it'd be a bad idea to put anything more into the article. We don't know if they were actually told they couldn't or if it's a decision they made themselves, we don't know exactly why, whether it's based on misinformation or what. All we know is they were going to put the panda in, decided against it because they thought it would affect the Chinese release, and the panda is now back. 109.145.208.77 13:51, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

With that said, I will speculate as businessman. Again this is only my opinion and should not be taken as gospel. In the past few years, China has blocked much of the internet from their citizens, 2009 and 2010 saw Google, Facebook, Twitter, and various others blocked from usage. When you are in Hong Kong, you will have no problem getting online but outside that the whole of China is one massive firewall. When I sell firmware to China I am not going to bother if they tell me it can't be used because of certain restrictions or guidelines. So I am speculating the sales in China are not that impressive to begin with, for a game that could "open doors" to the outside world. My wife and kids play this game a lot, and none of them have run into anyone from China even hanging out in the Asian districts. My wife said she was in the International district and some guy may have been speaking Japanese about a month ago.--Brian Black 16:58, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Reskin?

Has anyone got one of these yet? Is it just a reskin of a Black Bear or does it use a unique model? Thanks in advance. --Combatter 14:47, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

I haven't got one, I'm still farming Z coins, but I'd guess it uses the same model as Ling Wong. Whether that's a reskin of a bear I'm not sure, but it shouldn't be hard to find out. 109.150.170.157 15:42, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

It appears to be a reskin. Titan Crow 16:29, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

:-( --Combatter 18:25, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

They are reskin of bears but size difference is smaller

Im not so sure about that, I have my panda (lvl7) in my party with 3 other lvl 6/8 bears and they all appear to be the same size. Maybe there is a size difference at higher levels. Titan Crow 11:37, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Could someone please find out whether the pet uses the same model as Ling Wong? - I would but I have no free character slots. --Combatter 13:50, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

(Just unlocked with Zcoins) I do believe the charmable panda has fangs and is dirtier, I think the pic needs to be updated--75.17.145.160 20:33, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

(Reset Indent) The pet panda does use the same model as Ling Wong. I don't know how to post screen shots but you can see them here: http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/aurorel/Panda/ Both do look dirtier than the one on the page however. 109.145.208.77 13:36, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Also at level 5 they're the same size as the black bear, polar bear and jingle bear. I'm not sure how they scale up yet though. 109.145.208.77 13:52, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Why does the old screen shot look way better than the current panda screen shot? Did they make it uglier in the last 5 years?58.106.132.45 18:05, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Hall of Monuments?

so they dont go in there or is it just me? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Dark Shadows Raider (talk).

Probably counts as a regular pet - which wouldn't surprise me since Cantha already has two rare pets, though one is far less rare than the panda. And the Moss Spider doesn't count as a rare pet for the HoM. Konig/talk 16:45, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

too bad--Dark Shadows Raider 20:23, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Growth

A friend said they didn't scale their size with level, is this true? File:User Chieftain Alex Chieftain Signature.jpg Chieftain Alex 21:53, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Comparison to other bears the Panda is smaller at Lvl 20, almost same size as player or smaller

There is a fix for this in the mix. --Musha 19:28, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

As noted in todays update this has been fixed now. A level 20 panda is about twice the size of a level 5 one and bigger than a level 20 black or polar bear. It's a poor reference but a max height male ranger is about a head taller than the pandas back. 109.145.208.77 11:04, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

I preferred it when my pandy was smaller :-( --Combatter 11:58, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Awesome, I wanted my panda to be BIG and FAT :D.Kougajin 17:12, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

My panda is Far larger that any other bears. It's bigger than the other bears by the same difference as a level 12 bear to a level 15 bear, if that makes sense. Titan Crow 22:51, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

presenting

"by presenting an Imperial Panda License" - I'm pretty sure you can't say presenting without naming who the hell you're giving it to? File:User Chieftain Alex Chieftain Signature.jpg Chieftain Alex 16:55, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

I've changed it to "using". I imagine that you have to present the license to Emryd the Tamer but I cannot confirm this as I do not have one. --Combatter 20:20, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes to Emryd the Tamer, just given her it --Kilaa1000 12:22, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

After giving the License I had to leave/enter the Menagerie for the Panda to appear. Is this normal?--Kilaa1000 12:25, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

I used ZCoins and did not have to rezone, the Panda Appeared instantly. 24.179.21.20 02:39, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Had the same issue with the license: rezoning for the panda to appear. ˜˜˜˜ <-- awesome, I broke the four tildes. Helgan Iceglow

China panda laws and GW beyond

Don't know whether this has been addressed already but here you go: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Territory Apparently the chinese GW servers have long been shut down. As such panda laws are no issue anymore.62.159.14.62 11:22, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Actually servers in China were isolated from others originally, so it's not an issue at the beginning. --140.128.67.248 04:01, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

This is a fake panda!

The back fur pattern is inaccurate. Other than the eyes,ears, shoulder,hands and legs the rest is white. It should look like it's wearing black boots not pants. It they ever fix it I'd like to see it a bit cleaner looking and not so grungy like it is now. --Bluespider 09:51, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Fake? Shocking! And here I thought they scanned in a real one! I think it's a pretty minor change, maybe the artist decided it looked better that way and claimed artistic license. Also real pandas tend to look pretty 'grungy'. It's hard to keep anything white clean, especially when it's scrabbling around in trees and underbrush all day. 86.150.26.197 20:37, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Bug

Panda disapears in semi-transparent surface (water for example). 89.75.188.122 18:10, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

How much?

How much would one imperial panda license cost?

We don't do prices here. Ask in-game or on a different website (can't think of one off the top of my head right now)--Deus 02:30, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Are they bears?

According to Wikipedia, Great Pandas (such as those depicted here) are considered bears, based on recent DNA testing.

"The panda ...is a bear native to central-western and south western China." (emphasis added)

It's also classified in the family, Ursidae, AKA bears. Regarding previous uncertainty about the classification, Wikipedia writes:

"...the ...taxonomic classification ...was under debate because it shares characteristics of both bears and raccoons. However, molecular studies suggest that the giant panda is ...part of the Ursidae family,...The giant panda's closest extant relative is the spectacled bear of South America."

Among other reputable establishments, the San Diego Zoo and the Smithsonian both consider Pandas to be bears. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 04:53, 3 July 2012 (UTC)