Talk:Real-Money Trading Policy

What Else can the New Real Money Policy Affect?

→ moved from User talk:Gaile Gray

Will this New Policy affect:

• People in game buying other in-game accounts from another player? Even if they screen shot everything they said and traded? (This does not involved Real money But involves in game money buying Real Accounts or items. In Other Words the other way around). Example Using in Game money to Buy a Runescape account, a WoW account or a used Guild Wars account. Even Possible using In-game money to buy a Real Item like a Car and etc.
• Will this also affect people Paying real money for a Unopened Guild Wars or Guild Wars Collectors Pack which was bought off of Ebay or Amazon, then you use the key that you just bought to get in game content like bonus weapons items or effects like the Divine Aura? Seeing the Prorder Packs were a one time Only as of the Guild Wars Prophecies Collectors Unopened, which Amazon.com still have.
• Also I hear Ebay has even Been Selling Guild Wars Bots on the site and seeing people are actually using real money to to buy these bots so it can farm gold or items in game for them. Will action be taken to prevent any more bot selling?

--Mithos Agar 23:11, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Selling/trading accounts is against the EULA and you are very likely to get scammed if one does it. --Lemming 23:15, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

As I understand, transferring accounts has always been against the EULA. It isn't a new policy. MiraLantis 23:19, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I mean the New Real Money Policy today. I know all about the EULA --Mithos Agar 23:21, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that was in regards to your first question, when you said using in-game money to buy a used guild wars account. As for unopened boxes on ebay, I don't think that's a problem - that'd be the same as buying an unopened box off of a Best Buy shelf. Buying a used account on ebay would be a different matter though. Also, please don't edit comments - just add another comment if you forgot to say something. Nobody minds :P MiraLantis 23:26, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Ah ok that Answers the Money Buying a used account problem BUT the questions still on the Table is in-game money buying Real Life Objects? Also buying a unopened key....would it be against EULA seeing that the main reason a person is buying the pre order pack is for the items which in other words is still buying in-game content. Also seeing that someone is buying a key of something guild wars stop producing from a individuals, can the individual be sued or etc. selling a item to someone else for a item that is not produced and more also seeing the individual is not a retailer like EB Games or Best Buy? Retailer's and a single person selling something is 2 different things. Also It still doesn't answer about players buying Pre Made Bots to farm for them off Big selling sites? --Mithos Agar 23:33, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

We'll have to see if you get a response from Gaile on that one. MiraLantis 23:36, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

This isn't really a policy change, the policy has always been there, the thing is clarifying it and implementing fixes to try and stop the core of the problem. Like the "war" on drugs as long as there is a market out there people will sell stuff. --Lemming 23:39, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Support made me aware of some scams involved in trying to trade "extra" Guild Wars accounts for in-game gold. You've seen the messages: "Buying GW account for 100K." Or "Will pay 50K for extra (game name here) account." Word to the wise: Don't. -- Gaile 04:43, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

It will be interesting seeing how this unfolds, and if this measures up to anything more than a bunch of words. It does strike me as odd though, if they're already banning "typically more than 5,000 per week" (accounts) will this actually stop more from trying or will it just turn it more into a blackmarket than the standard "I'll stand in an outpost and shout 'Look at me I'm a gold trader'" situations? They've provided a figure, a very high figure (I think thats what gets me, they all can't be store brought, gotta be a lot of demos and trials in that estimate). I do love the paragraph at the bottom, very dramatic "These companies cause real grief to you and your fellow players on a daily basis. If you don't like them spamming, botting, hacking, and stealing accounts, then don't buy their gold." I had to laugh, especially at the last, I don't like them spamming and I don't buy their gold but still have to deal with it... lol. So, with this new update policy are better reporting function coming to? House Of Furyan 06:29, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Trading accounts for gold is dangerous anyway - there is no way to guarantee both sides will live up to the deal. If the gold is transferred first, the recipient of the gold could cut and run; if the account is transferred first, the recipient of that could change the password and refuse to pay up. I'm pretty sure I saw someone land in the latter situation before, actually. Too easy to get scammed; just don't do it. -- Sirius (talk) 11:16, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

i am sorry but this wasnt a way to fix it so people wouldn't sell real money for gold it was a way to lighten the bandwidth. if they wanted to fix gold selling they would have just intruded 100k for $10 to the ingame store.75.172.43.101 21:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Part of the problem is that gold selling impacts the in-game economy, giving a real economic advantage to players who are willing to spend real-life money to acquire in-game items or in-game gold. So your so-called "solution" would actually be contributing to the problem. -- Alaris 22:46, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Haha... while ArenaNet selling gold on the in-game store is an amusing idea, it doesn't solve one other problem; it'd still upset the economy for the players that opted out. Less scrupulous developers (EA?) might well do that, but I don't think ArenaNet will. -- Sirius (talk) 23:10, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

More than the idea of what it might do to the in-game economy is what it would do to the out of game economy. If they had the option of buying GW gold for real life money, every item in the game would suddenly have real world value and could therefore be considered taxable. "Bladed Aataxe dropped a Glob Of Ectoplasm and a W-2." Thefount 20:58, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Using in-game money to buy a "Real Item" (such as a car, unopened account etc.) just means that the person you're trading with has used a Real Item to buy in-game gold. Thinking further, the chain is "buyer buys Real Item with Real Money" - "buyer trades Real Item for in-game-gold" - "seller sells Real Item for Real Money", and that equates to "buyer buys in-game gold for real money". So logically you should only trade Real Items for Real Money (or other Real Items). More food for thought: 5000 bans per week means a quarter million bans per year. That is 5% of those 5 million games sold. Most of the banned accounts will have been bought with stolen or fake credit card information. Instituting the 24-hour probation period ensures that more of these get detected before the gold sellers can profit. With the closing of the Chinese outlet for GW, the avenue of buying accounts in China cheaply is also closed (this would only have been profitable if the Chinese had been banning accounts in China cheaply, and it seems they didn't). I am actually amazed that the amount of gold selling spam I experience in GW is this low, and that it doesn't take an intrusive PC scanner to achieve this. (mendel 84.128.232.147 18:42, 23 March 2008 (UTC))

I have in the meantime heard that accounts bought in China couldn't be used on international servers, so please disregard the "Chinese" part of the above paragraph. (mendel 84.128.205.35 15:38, 24 March 2008 (UTC))

Gaile I Would also like to add(as of reply) that some bots are downloaded by torrent as of key-generators. Half of them are Virus and that Half are virus are key bind ones. Would it be better to warn players not to download torrents or anything relating to Guild Wars that is a 3rd party program? Also speaking of torrents they also have e-guides on how to create a bot in guild wars if it isn't the botting file itself. Thanks --Mithos Agar 06:10, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Mithos, that warning is already in the game, at the login screen. "Players: Protect Your Account... and do not download third-party programs." -Ang 16:39, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

And please be aware, there are no functional key generators for Guild Wars. Every single one of those is a hoax. As to buying a sealed copy on a third-party site, I cannot advise you. However, I will say that sometimes, being able to return a game to the retailer is the remedy for certain issues. For instance, say someone gets a misprinted access key. It's not common -- in fact I don't know that I've heard of such a thing -- but being able to go back to an authorized retailer means you'll get immediate assistance. Going to an auction site will get you nothing, and the person who auctioned the game, sealed or not, is not likely to provide you with "customer support" like a store will.

The only people I know who make purchases of real-world items for in-game gold are those who try to purchase "extra accounts," the in-game spammers who offer 100K for a game account. Those individual are almost universally involved in RMT and should be avoided like a Charr with a really bad migraine. ;) -- Gaile 03:51, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

The New Real Money Policy Affect: a personal concern...

→ moved from User talk:Gaile Gray

Dear Gaile, I may just be paranoid after reading the many "banned without reason or evidence shown" but I am concerned that banning IP's might actually ban non-gold sellers as well. They might mask their IP's in a different way than by Proxy, and what if they use the same IP as I do, and get banned? Do I get banned too? And if so, how do I appeal? It is pretty hard to prove you're not a gold seller, since Anet has all the evidence on their computers (and are unwilling to share it?). Also, my girlfriend and I use the same IP: will we be suspects from the start? Like I said, I am probably just paranoid and I don't want to acuse Anet or you of anything, but I am really concerned about this. What is your policy on 'colateral damage'? Nicky Silverstar 07:43, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Two things will come from this, 1 - the positive, it will work fine and there will be minimal impact on the innocent, or 2 - the negative, will blow up in Arenanet's face and people will go "You suck." - I mean if they're banning 5000 accounts a week (their estimate not mine) there's a very real possibility other 'innocent' players might be dragged into this (maybe a little doomsday but we are not privy to the more sensitive information about this system)

I would like to think Arenanet has thought through these possibilities before starting to code whatever they've needed to put in. I do recall Gaile saying banning by IP was a bit of an risky issue since people can share IP addresses, I can't seem to find the discussion in her archives but I have noticed a few pages missing (but thats besides the point, if I find it I'll post it). My partner and I share our connection, but I would think ArenaNet are smart enough, and have smart enough systems in place to be able to recognise this and a history of it without swinging the 'ban stick' House Of Furyan 08:42, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

The fact that they say they have the option of banning IPs does not imply that they will always ban IPs and not just accounts (in fact, they specifically state that it's only in cases where there are large amounts of such activity). It's just another tool for dealing with things if account bans become inefficient for a particular violator. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 09:39, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I also think Arenanet will have thought this through very well. That does not mean I am not concerned. I use an internet connection provided by the university I study at, and I know for a fact that multiple people get the same IP (which could be as high as 50 users per IP address), none of which are proxies. I just have to hope that none of my fellow students are goldsellers. As for IP's being unique: if they can be made unique, then they can also be made non-unique (even without proxy IP's). Gold sellers and other shady companies are known to be very good with computers. I just hope that I won't lose my account because a gold seller decides to set his IP to be equal to mine. Nicky Silverstar 11:28, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

We will diligently watch for any issues that may arise in the implementation of these processes. They really are intended to serve entirely positive purposes, and they have been tested. However, there can be -- it's honest to say probably will be -- a few issues with individual accounts. It's almost unavoidable, isn't it, with 5,000,000 games sold? But the key is, we'll be watching for those and doing our best to resolve them as quickly and fairly as possible.

We are very aware that we have a large playerbase coming from universities, and we'll be watchful to not block the entire uni simply because one person decided to become a gold seller. If an issue arises with this sort of situation, please get in touch with Support immediately and they'll respond with quick action to get it sorted out. -- Gaile 19:39, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, not really 5 million accounts is it? Least hope the innocent are not too disrupted by this. Yet, still nice to see ArenaNet taking the further steps to combat gold sellers etc, lets see if you equates to some changes in-game :D House Of Furyan 19:45, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Correct on "accounts" and amended. 'Sides that, I had typo'd the word anyway. ;) Thank you. -- Gaile 19:48, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Hey, we all make mistakes ... should see some of mine lol :) House Of Furyan 19:51, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I am feeling a lot easier now, thank you Gaile. Nicky Silverstar 23:25, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

You account can get wrongly banned for exchange of money, Im a proof of that my account and my brother's account got banned today without any reason, exepct we exchange money between each other, my brother and I are both 27 months vets players, I got banned permanetly like if i were a gold seller and my brother got a temporary ban, I have never traded money with any other account that my brother's so my guess is that their filter don't take that in consideration, so if you have 2 accounts and exchange money between each other seems like you will get banned forever::: a 190.74.146.54 01:52, 1 April 2008 (UTC) Darkz Slayer

It is true that accidents can happen. We regret and attempt to fix every single one. Errors are not frequent, when you consider the size of the Guild Wars player base, but certainly they do occur. So as has been suggested to you on the other several places you've posted this, you need to contact Support for assistance. Any player who reports a possible error can get a review, and if the accounts were truly not involved in RMT, they will be quickly reinstated. But posting here, or on a fan forum, just won't get the job done, I'm sorry to say. So please do contact Support (linked above) for their assistance. Best of luck. -- Gaile 21:17, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

What they do if you have been Hacked.

All they do if you are one of those people that have been hacked if they ban your account leaving till the next time you log on +3 days to find out that you have been hacked by one of these RMT people and then you find that you have no gold and platinum and no items of any value left which can put you years back and they are not able to return any item. It is ridiculous if you are robbed in real-life the insurance companies will compensate you but NCSoft will not compensate you with anything.--Flameronone 01:25, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Situation in-game as per 2016

Are you kidding me right now? I drop by the game and not only is Kamadan swarming with gold sellers, but they even have their own guild! x_x Crack down on gold selling, yeah sure... 158.58.158.42 22:37, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

The best thing to do is give Anet the information they need in order to take action against the accounts (i.e. report them). G R E E N E R 00:16, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Needs updating for 2017

I fixed the last section

How we deal with real-money traders

To help protect the Guild Wars community from the problems caused by real-money trading, we aggressively pursue these companies and try to stop them from abusing our players and the game, although some speculate that we now condone certain sites and earn a percentage of their sales. Listed below are some of the measures we rarely take to protect Guild Wars players from the abuses of real-money trading companies.

• We identify and ban accounts—typically much, much less than 5,000 per week—being used by real-money trading companies but unban them a few days later.
• We attempt to identify stolen accounts and return them to their rightful owners, 'attempt' being the key word.
• Our GMs don't monitor the game around the clock so they can't remove botters and spammers from the game, and never within hours of account creation.
• When we detect a large amount of abuse from a single Internet address (IP address), we might block that address from accessing the game, but they will just use a different IP within minutes so usually we don't bother.
• We block open proxies (open Internet servers which can relay traffic from anywhere in the world) from accessing the game, but not the wiki.
• We identify players who purchase gold from real-money trading companies, and we might suspend their accounts and remove the purchased gold if we ever get around to it. We also encourage these players to seek restitution from their credit card company. Real-money trading companies are not legally authorized to sell Guild Wars gold. They don't own the gold — ArenaNet does. Credit card companies know this, so buyers of gold can generally call their credit card companies and get the charges removed.

Remember, if you purchase gold for real-world money, you are funding these companies and supporting their behavior. These companies cause real grief to you and your fellow players on a daily basis. If you don't like them spamming, botting, hacking, and stealing accounts, then don't buy their gold.

I can do the rest of the article too, it saves me from kamadan time seeing rmt websites, bot sellers, and account sellers. 5.28.62.85 15:35, 2 June 2017 (UTC)