Talk:Symbiosis

no talk...?

How about this for talk? I've started to use this for RA, for the fun of it, with my Monk, for luck I was with a Dervish, she increased her health to over 1,260. Making each of my echantments a mini Endure Pain. ShadowFog 21:57, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I suppose also a bonder maintaining 14 bonds (fairly typical) and a few other enchantments will have over 2000 health! woot Coruskane 01:40, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Wait, that doesn't sound consistent. According to the description, your maximum health increases under the effect of an enchantment, not by the number of enchantments you maintain. Therefore, a bond monk will grant +100 maximum life to all those he bonds, but no more on himself than the number of enchantments maintained on himself (Balthazar's Spirit, etc.). Correct me if I'm wrong. --Eyekwah 15:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I saw a sceenie with a 22, 3 k imfuse, at great temple 2 guys were there with monk heroes with maintainable or long lasting enchs and symbiosis, that was like so weird.

I don't have this as a skill with my Dervish, but in the Eye of the North the Modiniir like to cast it. I'm regularly at 1400 health. It's amazing.71.228.50.12 23:50, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

high hp Here is the highest I could get so far with 3 heroes. Of course having this much health isn't at all practicle and is very bad with the energy management. Laserblasto! 20:56, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

W/N can easily get over 5k with similar setup. Survivor+vitae set, Symbiosis, Defy Pain, Endure Pain, Signet of Stamina, Demonic Flesh, Awaken the Blood and 3 heroes worth of enchantments. Theoretical limit with a party of 8 would be 12824 HP, without +1 attribute procs, assuming GW has enough enchantments (58) that can be kept up on you. -91.153.24.46 18:10, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Theoretically also, in a cooperative mission you could have up to 16 people, so 127 enchantments. There are 286 enchantments, and while I don't know how many of those can be cast on other allies rather than self (and last long enough for the other enchantments to last,) I'm going to assume all players can cast enchantments on the player. I'm also going to assume, but not include, that the party and player have certain enchantments or skills (Defy/Endure Pain, Great Dwarf Armor, Vital Boon,...etc) that raise the players health more than symbiosis, or in addition to.

With Beast Mastery at 20, each enchantment adds an additional +191 health; with a supposed 127 enchantments, the player could get to 24,257 health excluding base health and runes. Including these, the number becomes ~24,917 (depending on what runes are used, ie. superior for further skill increases or all health.) Therefore, a player can theoretically reach over 25,000 health in a small period.

I personally would love to try this, but it would lengthy and messy of hero builds, and I would need other players.--Saera Serena 18:05, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Mo/R Symbiosis build

Eyekwah you 're not wrong, Coruskane you are wrong. I experimented quite a lot with this skill and there are some nice things and some bad things happening. Lets say you are a bonder with Shield of Regeneration as an elite. You ll typically have most of your group bonded and at some point. Until this point Symbiosis works quite nicely cause most of your group will have increased health which is another form of "protection", cause it gives more time to the healer to heal. Then at some point you cast your elite. Hmm this elite is an enchantment though, which provides health regen. So upon starting, SoR will increase the target health for an amount (through Symbiosis), heal him for the same amount it would heal anyway but when it ends your target returns to its lower health - the one he had before SoR was casted. So what did SoR did? It healed for LESS, cause it healed over an increased amount of maximum health (when you increase/decrease your max health, the percentage of your current health remains the same). And this is true for every healing enchant that heals through its duration, like Healing Breeze etc. In order to get full advantage from a Mo/R Symbiosis build you need very specific skills. Enchants that last LONG so they ll be active at most of the duration of a fight. I 'll list here some spells and how they act when there is a Symbiosis spirit:

Less Healing % cause the spell itself is an enchantment:

Mark of Protection, Shield of Regeneration, Spirit Bond, Healing Breeze, Healing Hands, Healing Seed (on target), Restful Breeze

Less actual mitigation cause the spell itself is an enchantment:

Protective Bond, Protective Spirit

Other cases:

Vigorous Spirit: Less healing % cause the spell itself is an enchantment, but long enough duration to keep it up so it doesn't matter.

Dwayna's Sorrow: Good synergy with Symbiosis.

Symbiosis + Watchful Healing + Infuse Health + Contemplation of Purity : Another idea for Infuser. + Healer's Boon for really big numbers.

Not sure what happens with these:

Reversal of Fortune: heal happens before or after the enchant is removed?

Patient Spirit: heal happens before or after the enchant is removed?

Shield Guardian: heal on target, happens before or after the enchant is removed?

Divine Favor: the heal from DF is applied before or after a monk enchant?

Most maintained enchantments also have good synergy with Symbiosis provided they 'll be maintained for a long duration. Generally on a Mo/R symbiosis build, you want your party to be enchanted when they take damage but unenchanted when you are about to heal them, for best possible results. Eth 14:49, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Wow nice work. ^_^ Very useful. I had often wondered about this skill, and I like the idea that if I brought a team adapted to this skill that I could win in a pvp battle because they wouldn't be prepared for it. For example, what would happen if we had a 8 man team with 1 bonder with Symbiosis and Tranquility? That's already a huge advantage in that all of your team (unless enchantment is removed) will have a +100 health bonus and their team will have difficulty maintaining theirs, often causing a lot of maximum health juggling on their part. I imagine that'd screw over their monk's healing because they can't anticipate that even though their teammate has half life, the enchantment that extends his life by 100 health is about to end. You could throw in a Pain of disenchantment necrommancer in the team somewhere to put on attack target to make the enchantment drops even more of a sudden life drop. It'd be almost like instant Deep Wound whenever their enchantments end on them, but it wouldn't affect your team whatsoever. --Eyekwah 11:50, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

As for Patient Spirit, I'd really like to know that one. Sounds to me that with Symbiosis, Patient Spirit is a 150 health heal for 5 energy. --Eyekwah 11:55, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Most of what you said makes sense, but when you heal (as an example you gave) with shield of regeneration, you still get the full benefit of the healing. Both your maximum health, and your current health are changed equally when health benefits/penalties are applied. So lets say someone at 300 of 500 health under +100 symbiosis is enchanted with a 100 health patient spirit. When the enchantment is cast on them they will receive a 100 health boost to maximum and current health so they are 400 of 600. When patient spirit ends they will drop back to 300 of 500, and be healed for 100 to 400 of 500.

life sacrifice

very bad if you have any life sacrifice skills in the team. If its a sac skill that gets spammed then its harder for the monk to heal the dmg which may end up with the sac skill not being so spammable--96.13.207.14 07:05, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Aura of the lich

With up to 3,500 health (look at screenshot in opening statements), would Aura of the Lich be useful, as you could, under certain circumstances, have the same health as everyone else, but you would take half damage, this also might make it slightly more conceivable to sacrifice health... I've never played as a necro, so I wouldn't know... I was just wondering how it'd work...Zeph 04:38, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

totally changed so irrelivant now. was better before change imo.--I r ogre 21:28, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Vital Boon

Current page says "Synergizes excellently with Vital Boon". I disagree. Synergy is when two skills complement each other. There is only partial synergy with Vital Boon, in that Vital Boon is an enchantment. But to gain the full effects of Vital Boon (the heal effect at end), it has to end. And when it ends, so does the health gain Symbiosis provides. That's not synergy. I think the notes should read, "Stacks with Vital Boon, Vital Blessing and other health altering enchantments." --Doodle01 00:33, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

A reasonable change. I say go ahead. elix Omni 00:41, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

irony

lol, at 20 beast mastery with 70 enchants on you get +13370 heath XDAurenX 04:32, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

That's not irony, it's coincidence. Not even a funny coincidence. --ஸ ķ̌ɎǾshĺ 05:08, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

A funny thing was that when I cast this spell with an 8 team my health shoots up to over 9000!!--Hubbard The Dervish 15:24, 6 December 2010 (UTC)