Talk:Vanguard foe

What is a vanguard foe? And what does it mean mechanically?

SOURCE: Merciless Evilphyre: I propose splitting every creature that spawns due to Vanguard Quests and label then Affilitaion: Vanguard Foes for lack of better terms. --Falconeye 02:21, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

That was an incredibly confusing mess of words. From what I understand, the charr shield and sword do not provide additional armour against charr spawned for the Vanguard quests because the mobs spawned for these quests are not considered charr, but Vanguard Foes. The second part about armour is the bit that's confusing me. Is that explaining why there is a Vanguard armour buff instead of introducing new armour collectors to pre? Personally I don't see a lore distinction between giving out max lvl armour in pre vs obtaining it in Droks (or any variation below) considering you can get max armour 20 feet from a bridge in Kamadam, where you buy your weakest armour. Does this mean casters get 40 armour, rangers get 50 armour and warriors get 60 armour while under the max Vanguard bounty buff? Does that ignore insignias? Say a warrior uses Dreadnought Insignia, will he get the armour buff from Vanguard in addition to the +10 against elemental damage from his insignia? Does that mean I can run around in starter armour and have the same armour as someone with collector armour minus insignia benefits? Who is the source you are quoting? 58.111.64.52 04:33, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

That research (which is by several ppls) says (if have correctly deciphered it):

• Your armor is set to a specific number depending on your level. It acts like a cap.
• This armor supersedes insignia +AR, but not runes.
  • Survivor +health counts, Radiant +e counts
  • Shields and weapon buffs still count; serrated shield is a good option.
• Inherent effects per class still count (e.g. Rangers still get +vs elemental damage)
• +Armor vs specific foes still counts from shields and weapons. However:
  • Skeletons are not undead (and some of the vanguard foes are counted as skels).
  • Undead Necromancers are not undead or skels for this purpose
  • Bandits are also other (Vanguard Foes is what Merciless calls 'em, but that's just his/her term; not one we have to adopt.)
  • Utini and friends are not grawl for this purpose.
  • (Near as I can tell, only the +AR/Dmg vs Charr counts; somehow the charr are still charr.)

Profession type	@L10..13	@L14..16	@L17..20
Casters	15	25	35
Rangers	25	45	55
Warriors	40	55	70

I think that summarizes everything in the post Falconeye referenced above.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 06:02, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

While "vanguard foes" is an unofficial term coined by Merciless, I cant think of any other term we could adopt thats more appropraite/non-misleading then this. ^_^ --Falconeye 17:23, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

• Langmar's losers
• LDoA foes.
• Pre-searing Reserve Enemies (PREs)

Eh, you're probably right that there's not much better. Plus, Vanguard foe is parallel to Vanguard Initiate, which is the very effect that makes it important to group these foes under a single term.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 17:30, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Affiliation or type?

The category places this as a creature type, however the page puts it as an affiliation. Further, the anomaly note, specifically the piece talking about charr and undead makes it sound like this replaces the affiliation. I say specifically the charr and undead because normal Prophecies charr do not have a type, however these are recent new foes and thus would act like EN charr, supposedly - that is, having type and affiliation being charr. Undead, likewise, is an affiliation only - the type of the models seen would be Skeleton. To me, this indicates that Vanguard foe is an affiliation - if so, something affecting skeletons would work on the undead foes here; likewise, the anomaly isn't an anomaly if so. Konig/talk 23:21, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

I dont keep/use a pre-character enough to verify this; Vanguard Foe was used due to the "anomaly" and lacking name alternatives. But if you believe it as affiliation/army, and not a type/species, then ill take your word. ^_^ --Falconeye 21:58, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

I actually tested this a bit on stage - the grawl spawned by these quests do not spread disease to the regular grawl. Whether this means the regular grawl are typeless while these are typed to "grawl" or if the regular grawl are typed to "grawl" and these to "vanguard foes" I'm uncertain of though. Either way, they at least hold different creature types. Konig/talk 22:00, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Further testing - tested the bandits. Regular bandits passed disease to me, thus are typed as human; likewise, the vanguard foe quest bandits passed disease to me (or rather, I to them). So it seems that pre-searing grawl are, in fact, typeless mechanically speaking. Konig/talk 22:06, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Interesting, since typeless creatures pass disease to each other, I wonder if they'll pass disease to charr too, and if they'll do the same in post-Searing. MithTalk 16:22, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

My guess is that Anet was less caring for pre-Searing's creature types since disease and EoE don't (naturally) exist there. I had to "cheat" to get that testing. I'd imagine that post-Searing would be more careful, but still worth looking into. Konig/talk 19:15, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Did a little more testing since the last comment:

• Charr of the vanguard foe do not pass disease to normal charr
• Normal charr do not pass disease to normal grawl (at least in the northernlands)

Combined with the earlier testing of vf grawl not passing disease to normal grawl, it means that the grawl have 2 creature types (neither being "typeless" like normal proph charr). Confusing...

Undead Illusionist type (again)

→ moved from User talk:Tennessee Ernie Ford#Undead Illusionist type (again)

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See talk:vanguard foe#Affiliation or type?. Granted while I did not test the skeletons or Charr yet, and now won't be able to for some time, if the humans are, in fact, the same type then it must be affiliation or neither (passive skill that passed our eyes? A unique coding line?) that makes them. And if it is type or affiliation, why do we put them in a category for types or affiliations that they are not of? Konig/talk 23:21, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Aren't we using type to denote how they behave within the game's mechanics? I thought we decided on affiliation for lore-related things. My understanding based on the research at the top of this page is that the illusionists, like the other special foes for the Lieut's quests, are affected by the Vanguard bonus, but not by other items that should affect the undead. (At least, according to the research that we used to determine that we even needed to define Vanguard foe as a distinct idea.)

On the other hand, I haven't seen anyone post on the wiki the results of systematic testing (and perhaps it's not possible to test everything in pre). – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 01:19, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Affiliation is mechanical. It is 'species' that is lore. Every NPC has 1 creature type (in-house: family) and one affiliation (army). Lore species is typically the same as type, but on occasion, especially in prophecies, may differ. As will the lore and mechanical groups/affiliations.

It is only possible to fully test via the TK, sadly, but testing the bandits shoe that this is, at least, a case of affiliation - though it may be a special line of unique coding, as said somewhere. Konig/talk 04:49, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Vanguard Undead are fleshy

I would feel it's a good idea to put that in the page, maybe some people already know...but I've made it to LDoA and just found out that the vanguard version of the undead foes are fleshy. They leave exploitable corpses and they bleed. If anyone has a dispute, please leave a reason why. 98.186.172.103 21:14, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

those notes belong on the pages of the specific creatures, so that's where I put the, 24.130.140.36 21:21, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Aggroing bandits blood sworn will draw in vanguard bandits during Nadya bounty

This behavior suggest they are correctly classified as bandit--Ruine Eternelle 19:26, 24 October 2019 (UTC)