User talk:Azasuke1988

Skill History pages

Thanks for your work on the skill history pages, but please remember that when you add a {{Skill infobox}} to a skill history page, the categorize = n parameter has to be included in the infobox or it will mess up the skill tables throughout the wiki (as noted at Template talk:Skill table#Dervish Mysticism Table messed up). For example, when you added a {{Skill infobox}} to Aegis (PvP)/Skill history without the categorize = n parameter, it caused Aegis (PvP)/Skill history to appear on and break the skill tables on Protection Prayers, List of monk skills, List of core monk skills, etc. --Silver Edge 05:45, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for overlooking this; I will gladly do so for the skill history edits here on in. -- Azasuke1988 14:45, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

I came to thank you, but it looks like someone beat me to it... — Raine Valen 3:34, 24 Oct 2011 (UTC)

I also came to thank you for the updates/clean-up and to make two requests:

• Could you take a look at the Skill history project? If you are making minor changes to the practices there, please make a note. (If the changes are major, perhaps they should be discussed.)
• Please do not remove the developer notes when you clean-up. I've received feedback from several people that this is one of the key pieces of data that they look for (e.g. why the developers chose to change functionality). On the whole, a lot of the skill history pages don't have it in the first place, so it's not as if the wiki has been consistent. Still, it would be better to have it on a few articles than not.

Thanks again for the effort (I've done a couple of skill histories and I know that it's not as easy as you are making it seem). – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 18:47, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

By developer notes are you referring to the update descriptions that specify the actual changes to functionality, or would you be referring to some other developer note that I have unknowingly removed? If you are speaking of the former, then I will gladly go through each of the appropriate skills and reinstate the description details. Sorry if this is a silly question. -- Azasuke1988 20:12, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

It's not a silly question (as I mentioned, we haven't been consistent with how we document this). Ideally, to make things easier on a reader, each history section should:

• Include a link to the specific update that changed the functionality and/or stats.
• Include a summary of what the developers wrote as to why they made those changes, which are typically found in on the Developer updates article. (Usually, there's a sentence that can be copied verbatim.) (This should be linked to the source, but it's generally just plain text often formatted as a orphaned bullet — that's the bit that you have sometimes removed.)

I try to imagine a reader (perhaps myself), looking at a skill that we remembered as being better and then visiting the skill history to see that it was nerfed. The obvious questions are why? and in which way?. Including the details ("functionality changed from x to y") and/or the reasons ("because of Z") helps answer that so that people don't have to compare the costs of the current skill to the former version or try to parse the developer notes for the relevant comment that explains things.

Also, you might just want to think about this going forward, rather than trying to adjust any previous changes you have made. I don't know about you, but I found it exhausting to update a skill history article (since it involves double-checking dates, costs, parameters in the {{skill infobox}}, split notices, and links from the main skill article). – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 02:19, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Clarity and consistency were my initial goals for these pages, though having come across more than enough pages that required back-tracking and researching, I have decided to go through each page and do simple update checks as well as further streamline each page collectively to a certain order. Lastly, I have included notes in history pages to each skill requiring further clarification and cross-checking - particularly in overlooked discrepancies and unlisted statistic differences. I will do my best to include developer update links to each functionality change, where applicable. -- Azasuke1988 02:30, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Awesome! Thanks again. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 02:31, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Is there an easier way to see skill updates instead of having to cross-check lists of history pages and edits? Ironically, I understand that skill history pages serve this purpose to begin with, though when some skills have been neglected this attention, it is rather painstaking to have to rely on developer update pages. -- Azasuke1988 03:48, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Relatively few skills have gotten full attention (some have gotten a bit of helpful and a bit of less helpful edits), which is why the project page (linked above) was created. For recent changes, I use the "what links here" link (under toolbox, on the left navbar) and filter for "Feedback" space. That doesn't work for anything before August 6, 2009 (when the space was created).

There's a DPL-kludgey way. I've created a sandbox that can be used to find updates more easily. Based on your editing so far, I don't think you'll have any trouble adapting it to find specific skills. You can edit it or just change the skill and preview. Or, copy it into your user space.

Alternatively, we could incorporate this into the {{skill history}} template, so that the top of the article always links to the relevant articles. (If you like that idea, let's bring this up on the project page to invite more people to discuss it...and get some opinions about how it might be formatted.) This wouldn't be as good for readers as including the relevant quotes directly, but would certainly speed up the creation of these articles and standardize the presentation. (And we can always go back later and paste in the relevant notes.) – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 04:33, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

I apologize for this ignorance but much of what you've discussed preceding this post kind of flew over my head. However, after giving it some thought. here is what I have resolved to do: I will first go through each and every skill history page to update and clean up existing information formatting. This will include rectifying erroneous information, adding links and infoboxes, etc. Then I will run through each monthly update page from the archives and simply cross-check/add current/missing information (including developer notes). I figured this probably sounds painstaking and/or downright tedious and boring but it could well be the simplest solution for my aforesaid intention. Please let me know if this would have any particular problems for you or in regards to anything else. I shall begin this process by tonight and will see through to completing it as best as I can. -- Azasuke1988 10:47, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Template for research & request for comments

Sorry for confusing you with the above. To make your work easier (and make it easier to document skill histories), I've created {{Skill history documentation}}, which will allow you to easily find any relevant updates and, if you choose, to include as a link on the skill history articles (as noted above, this should probably be discussed at the project page, b/c it's different from past practice).

For example, for your most recent edit, you would use {{Skill history documentation|Feral Lunge}} and/or {{Skill history documentation|Feral Lunge (PvP)}}, which will result in a list of all game update articles and any developer update notes that link to the skill. For starters, I've been using it just during "show preview," since that makes the research easy.

On a related topic, have you had a chance to look at the project page? Skill history project A lot of the formatting/style/etc is covered there. Since you are doing the bulk of the current work on the project, I was hoping for your suggestions on the overall direction or on specific details. (Typically, someone works hard on this project for 20-50 skills...and then dies from the grind, so it's important that we try to follow the same guidelines.) – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 20:14, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Correct me if I am wrong but are there no actual records of original skill descriptions? As I understand, this (official) wiki had started some considerable time after the launch of Prophecies and as such history pages to any particular skill do not date as far back as the game goes. As such, in plugging in your provided {{Skill history documentation}} line into a preview only provides links as far back as 2007 for Aegis (for example), even though updates have been available since 2005. Also, I would like to update the format guideline with a few changes I've maintained throughout the pages that aim to dispose of superfluous breaks, lines, and even ToC boxes for the sake of simplicity. -- Azasuke1988 01:41, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Correction: apparently I misunderstood how the command worked and realized that the update actually had to link to the skill itself (including archives). Nonetheless, I have decided to start reading through the yearly update pages and listing each update in regards to the project. -- Azasuke1988 02:07, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

I wish to add that I will now include update descriptions verbatim to official game updates as well as related developer updates in italics under each one. I will then add any update descriptions not included in these official releases (similar to Guild Wars Wiki notes). I have also chosen to include bug introductions/fixes in skill history pages. Please bear with me as this process may see some trial and error and will most definitely take some time. -- Azasuke1988 03:04, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

I am now torn whether bug updates/fixes should be included. I've read the appropriate discussion and have already begun to include such updates for the new pages to Signet of Capture, "Watch Yourself!", Winter, etc., but I feel that bugs and fixes are not actually official updates to a skill and thus should be documented in a separate category altogether from skill histories. Please let me know what you think; for now, I will continue to include them until I've decided otherwise or find reason to. Thanks. -- Azasuke1988 11:44, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Some of the issues you raise have been discussed and/or addressed.

• Bug fixes should be included in skill histories if the skill was changed, but not if it was fixing the text to reflect the actual skill. Fixes are just as official and, more importantly, still of interest to those looking for how a skill has changed over time. Let's not make people look in two places for the same kind of data.
• This wiki didn't exist when the game was first released..., so Guild Wiki is the only source for some updates. Most of the official notes exist here (under Game updates instead of Feedback:Game updates).
  • The template/tool I've referenced should cover both (if it doesn't, I'll need to fix it accordingly).
  • There might still be other notes at GW guru or on the official site, but (mostly) stuff did get ported appropriately.
• With regards to the changes you would like to make, thanks for outlining them at the project talk page and being patient while folks get a chance to voice their opinion, especially since I only logon 1x/week.

Thanks again for doing so much (quality) work on this. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 19:29, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Skills Missing Concise Description category

I am reposting this inquiry from the Help center discussion page. Is there a specific way that a page may be removed from this specific category? I have removed concise descriptions to all skills (updates) prior to the March 13, 2008 update - considering such skills did not technically have concise descriptions at the time. There is no Category:Skills missing concise description line to be found on the page, thus removal via edit is not possible - unless I am missing something else here. Thanks for any information. -- Azasuke1988 03:43, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Linking on skill history pages

Since I see you already making a lot of links and other things on the skill history pages, I'd like to request that per Guild Wars Wiki:Formatting/General#Wiki links, you don't overlink (all those pages I looked at had this issue). Links should only be added to the first instance "unless it would ease the text flow." Thanks. Konig/talk 04:35, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Sure thing. A mistake on my part. -- Azasuke1988 23:43, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Concise Description introduction date?

← moved to Help:Ask a game question#Concise Description introduction date?

Inquiry has been answered. -- Azasuke1988 17:10, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Posting the same content on different talk pages

In the future, when posting the same content on different talk pages (e.g. "Concise Description" introduction date? on Talk:Concise description, Help:Ask a game question, etc.), I suggest posting your section on one talk page and then posting a link to that section from the other talk page(s). For example, instead of reposting the entire "Concise Description" introduction date? section on Help:Ask a game question from Talk:Concise description, create the "Concise Description" introduction date? section on Help:Ask a game question but place a link to the original section (e.g. "See Talk:Concise description#Concise Description introduction date? --~~~~") instead of the same content. This would centralize the discussion and prevent the same question being answered multiple times by different people on different talk pages, since people seeing the question on Talk:Concise description would not know that it has already been answered on Help:Ask a game question. --Silver Edge 06:40, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

A mistake on my part. For simplicity, I will edit the pages so that the Help page is the centralized page and then link the other talk pages to it. Sorry again. -- Azasuke1988 15:28, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Long See No Time!

With the release of Guild Wars 2, I haven't had much time to devote to working on the Skill history project. I apologize for my sudden disappearance and incompletion of the project. I hope the page's more active users are taking good care of it for me! See you in-game some time. Azasuke1988 06:47, 23 April 2013 (UTC)