ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Ritualist/Ritualists need a buff
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I agree with you on some pts. The Spirits are too slow, too weak for both formats and too long of a recharge for a fast paced MMORPG(or whatever Anet decides to call it now) and the Rit energy problem hasn't been attended yet. Every profession has a way to ignore energy for skills(example:adrenaline) or have an energy management(all other professions), the ritualist has none. I like the SP part when mixed with the new spirit's functions, it's a branch worth exploring.--ShadowFog 14:35, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- Meteor shower that costs like a spirit and has casting time like a spirit deals greater dmg + aoe kd... Tell me a reason why should i use expensive and slow spirits that dies with a single blast? What about AB? Jada Quarry? Fort AspenwOOt? Rits game specialisation must be re-written.--Kigamo 14:40, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- Rits are great for camping in one spot, so for e.g. holding an altar or defending against a siege they are very useful. But since those are niches they are overlooked. (This is related to the whole "active play vs. passive play" idea.) Rit defensive spirits are also pretty powerful because their buffs are unremovable; offensive spirits can also deal out a lot of damage with Signet of Ghostly Might and/or Painful Bond. If your spirits are dying, you need to learn to place them better. Any spirit of level >10, with decent invenstment to Spawning Power, can take a few hits from anything before going down... and against some foes it takes a long time to take out spirits because their damage relies on e.g. degen. All of that damage would otherwise fall on your party, so even if they are being killed off, spirits serve to mitigate damage. Vili
14:50, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- What we are aiming is the energy problem and the fact that spirits have too long of a recharge for too little health and too much of a cost.--ShadowFog 14:55, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- The only good source of energy is Offering of Spirit, and if you want to spam Disenchantment, Dissonance, Shdaowsong,Anguish, etc you need a lot of energy and a lot of time. And finally its a bad soure of damage.; Shelter, Union, Displacement have very low HP,they last for a second and protect only 3-4 party members (or pets and minions ^.^).--Kigamo 15:13, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- Offering of Spirit also happens to be one of the only viable Ritualist elites. Anyway, I'm not disagreeing about energy; that has always been a traditional hamstring for Ritualists and never really been addressed.
- Disenchantment and Dissonance are pretty horrible for actually attacking; Shadowsong, Anguish, Bloodsong, Pain, Vampirism in PvE, and sometimes Wanderlust are the preferable attack spirits. (Especially because they last at least 30 seconds.) I am not sure how you call that "a bad source of damage"; the DPS, once all the spirits are up and the foes hexed, is obscenely high. The counterargument is that it takes too long to setup. That is true; however, you can always set spirits up before engaging the enemy (at least in PvE), and in PvP you obviously don't start summoning in the middle of combat.
- Shelter, Union, and Displacement are invaluable because they affect every party member at once and can't be removed by any means; so as long as they are properly placed they work fine. Shelter basically casts Protective Spirit on everyone, for a fraction of the cost; Union, Shielding Hands; and Displacement, a stronger Guardian/Aegis. Even though they last for a short amoung of time, the amount of damage they mitigate is very large, and so even in for example Hard Mode they are invaluable. 25 energy which saves the entire party from being one-shotted by a boss' Spirit Rift, for example, is quite nice.
- I would argue that "you're doin it wrong" if you take pets and minions along with Spirits, unless that spirit is Life, because that only gets more powerful the more allies you have. It should just be obvious that you'll be wasting the effects on them. I suppose that could be an argument in your favor, though - the fact that those ritualist spirits become useless combined with MMs or BMs makes them even less appealing. Vili 15:47, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- The only good source of energy is Offering of Spirit, and if you want to spam Disenchantment, Dissonance, Shdaowsong,Anguish, etc you need a lot of energy and a lot of time. And finally its a bad soure of damage.; Shelter, Union, Displacement have very low HP,they last for a second and protect only 3-4 party members (or pets and minions ^.^).--Kigamo 15:13, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- I agree that there are some advantages, but disadvantages are 2 big and scary. So it's better to take a mobile Imbagon, than using a slow defensive spirit spammer. Btw "save yourselves" dont req. energy at all. The problem is that rits have a bit defensive skills, a bit healing, a bit offensive. Other classes have their own roles in the battle. Rit healing < monk healing, rits dmg < eles dmg, rits speed <<<< rangers speed...like this.--Kigamo 16:07, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- Note that "SY!" is incredibly imbalanced and so a really bad thing to compare to... ;)
- The strength of Ritualists is not that they do any of those jobs strictly "better" than other professions, but that they can do all of those jobs at the same time; also called versatility/flexibility/compression. This is usually seen as them being "weak" in comparison. But consider the spell Mend Body and Soul. For 5 energy, it can heal for about as much as Glimmer of Light; remove multiple conditions; and it is just as spammable if not more than most Healing Prayers skills. To do the same thing, a Monk would have to use Blessed Light or Restore Condition, which are elites; or, they would have to spend 10 energy casting a heal and then a condition removal.
- Now, I know that this is mainly concerned about spirits, but I am just making an analogy for the class as a whole - they contain a mix of everything so they are a "jack of all trades"; their versatility is their strength. So the problem is that "spirit spamming" only fits into a very few situations, and it's just not generally viable; they are not versatile. Most people agree with the idea of making rituals more "active" type skills and just generally more useful. Vili 16:24, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- What we are aiming is the energy problem and the fact that spirits have too long of a recharge for too little health and too much of a cost.--ShadowFog 14:55, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- That's what i want... to make rits skills "active". To make a playing more intensive. Because GW's rythm is fast and living. Making rits more active will born a lot of new tactics, unlock interesting strategies and shake the meta. And i want to see new forms of many underpowered skills :)--Kigamo 16:42, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
- Vili, the fact that Rits have such "diversity" is not in fact a great point. If their diversity came in only one or two different attributes, it would be quite invaluable to take a Rit because they could perfrom multiple tasks, but alas it is not so. If you want to use spirits you need the attribute the spirits are in and Spawning Power (or your spirits die in 1 hit). That leaves very little "diversity", unless you want to bring 1 or 2 skills at like 3 spec. Rit healers do not have as powerful single heal spells as monks, so they need to devote a whole bar to really achieve anything useful. Rit damage requires an entire build to be effective. Thus, just because the profession as a whole is very diverse, does not mean that players running that profession will have diverse bars. In the end, rits cannot hybrid attributes well, so thus are not played, since their individual functions are sub-par compared to other professions.Crimmastermind 04:10, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
- MB&S, WoWarding, WoR/Xinrae's, Caretaker's Charge, etc. already accomplish 9001 things at once. Life and Pot (and Recuperation, sort of) give partywide healing. Spawning Power is completely unnecessary, unless you want to tell me "Sabway healers" are bad because Life dies too fast. Splinter Weapon works fine even without 10+ spec. I could go on. Vili 05:31, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
- I play Rit in all formats perfectly, even top guilds use Rits in GvG due to the fact that they can synergy damage and healing and dont need much attention from Monks. We are talking about spirits and their flaws, diversity is duh, we all know that.--ShadowFog 15:40, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
- MB&S, WoWarding, WoR/Xinrae's, Caretaker's Charge, etc. already accomplish 9001 things at once. Life and Pot (and Recuperation, sort of) give partywide healing. Spawning Power is completely unnecessary, unless you want to tell me "Sabway healers" are bad because Life dies too fast. Splinter Weapon works fine even without 10+ spec. I could go on. Vili
- Vili, the fact that Rits have such "diversity" is not in fact a great point. If their diversity came in only one or two different attributes, it would be quite invaluable to take a Rit because they could perfrom multiple tasks, but alas it is not so. If you want to use spirits you need the attribute the spirits are in and Spawning Power (or your spirits die in 1 hit). That leaves very little "diversity", unless you want to bring 1 or 2 skills at like 3 spec. Rit healers do not have as powerful single heal spells as monks, so they need to devote a whole bar to really achieve anything useful. Rit damage requires an entire build to be effective. Thus, just because the profession as a whole is very diverse, does not mean that players running that profession will have diverse bars. In the end, rits cannot hybrid attributes well, so thus are not played, since their individual functions are sub-par compared to other professions.Crimmastermind 04:10, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
- Rits are great for camping in one spot, so for e.g. holding an altar or defending against a siege they are very useful. But since those are niches they are overlooked. (This is related to the whole "active play vs. passive play" idea.) Rit defensive spirits are also pretty powerful because their buffs are unremovable; offensive spirits can also deal out a lot of damage with Signet of Ghostly Might and/or Painful Bond. If your spirits are dying, you need to learn to place them better. Any spirit of level >10, with decent invenstment to Spawning Power, can take a few hits from anything before going down... and against some foes it takes a long time to take out spirits because their damage relies on e.g. degen. All of that damage would otherwise fall on your party, so even if they are being killed off, spirits serve to mitigate damage. Vili
Lancy's -Active Rituals-
- All other binding rituals are disabled for 4 seconds.
You forgot a skill! Spirits need Haste! ^_^
5 
¼ 
20 
- (Spawning Power) - Enchantment Spell. "For 5...17...20, your Spells and Rituals recharge 25% faster. You are immune to Summoning Sickness." No effect unless you are within earshot of a spirit or holding a bundle item.".
Summoning Sickness: Skill. (4 seconds.) You are unable to use Binding Rituals. (Binding Rituals) There can only be one Binding Ritual of each type within Spirit-range of each other.
- Inspired, arent we: drop on by if you would like further discussions Kigamo. And I just couldn't resist a M:tG quote. Truth be told, Nancy and I have discussed Disabled Rituals topic numerous times before as possible mechanics to exploit (in keeping with Rit's philosophy of Contradictions breeds Unity), but was ultimately left on back-burner. --Falconeye 03:44, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
- Active Binding Rituals & Soulmelds
- Weapon/Armor Spells & Bundle Item Spells
- All Other Ritualist Skills
- I think disabling rituals is vital, because if spirits casting & recharge time will became fast ( i hope it will ^^) it would be truely overpowered. I am trying to summ Anet's slow spirit mechanics and ours fast spirits conception. Sad, that Izzy is ignoring us... but we must try to do smth. Lets make a devastating rebelion lol ^^--Kigamo 13:10, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
- Did you read through all suggestions on his Wikipage? Did you count them? It's a huge amount. And his job isn't to read user suggestions on GWWiki. --
Yullive 15:12, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
- You have a bad sense of humoror ^_^ it was a joke. Maybe he is reading, just has no time to answer... we shouldn't be inactiive anyway, because if we will, no one understand what the game needs. --Kigamo 15:56, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
- Did you read through all suggestions on his Wikipage? Did you count them? It's a huge amount. And his job isn't to read user suggestions on GWWiki. --
- I think disabling rituals is vital, because if spirits casting & recharge time will became fast ( i hope it will ^^) it would be truely overpowered. I am trying to summ Anet's slow spirit mechanics and ours fast spirits conception. Sad, that Izzy is ignoring us... but we must try to do smth. Lets make a devastating rebelion lol ^^--Kigamo 13:10, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
