Talk:Game updates

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Contents 1 Nerf,nerf,nerf,nerf... WILL WE EVER GET ANY BUFFS?!?! 2 Flashing Blades Vers Gladiators Defense 3 update 4 Update - Thursday, August 7, 2008 5 Incorrect Updates: like the 7. aug 6 You are NOT fucking serious!!!!! 7 Way of the Assassin 8 Anet`s policy of Nerfing, useless blessings are Bad for Business 9 Assassin hate 10 Recent and upcoming updates. 11 A Suggestion For The New A-Net Philosophy 12 Underworld Changes 13 Why can't PvE characters use PvE skills In PvP? 14 The death of sin-split = death of the GvG-Assassin 15 Thursday 14th August 16 Macs fail at archiving 17 LOL 18 21 August 2008 18.1 Skill Updates 18.2 AI Updates 19 Joke? why not remove it? 20 TA

[edit] Nerf,nerf,nerf,nerf... WILL WE EVER GET ANY BUFFS?!?!

We've been getting nerfed. And we've been getting nerfed. And nerfed, and nerfed, and nerfed. I don't even want to use Dervishes in PvP anymore, because the skill that revolves around you being able to cause damage is now a Wind Prayer. Sure, CHILLing Victory, sounds like it's cold right? But it's still a SCYTHE ATTACK. Now, instead of being able to have nearly 16 points into scythe mastery, wherein I can dominate with CV and other good things. Instead I have to use a 10-9-9 build and THEN add the runes, meaning that if Mysticism is the 10 one that the max I could have on Wind Prayers using only runes/headgear is 13. That's 3 points LESS than it's PvE version, w/runes and headgear.

That isn't all. Now assassins have been nerfed, so that's good. However, assassins have been getting nerfed for a long time, so you would think that, in the previous update, that they could've given them a break, but no.

Wail of Doom? Now it's a complete piece of crap! Of course this was in a long ago update, but like I said, it's the little nerfs that only seem to take away 5-6 skills that seem least deadly, but turns out that they can be the WORST. Necros, Rits, Sins and Dervishes have been getting nerfed since the beginning of time. This is especially not helpful since nerfing a single skill means that the dervish now has one less than it's usual 60 skills to use.

ANet is probably too lazy to look at/care about what I'm saying but I hope at least YOU guys get the message. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:24.70.95.204 (talk).

We will never get buffs, because to keep the game balanced you need to nerf the best skills untill they are all equally good. You can't buff the worst skills untill they are used.. If they are finaly used they will most likely be inbalanced as well.. And can we STOP with the whining about nerfs please? Realy starting to piss me off.. Pulpulpullie 15:41, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

A philosophical note: nerf to 1 skill = buff to all other skills. That's true in PvP, but also in PvE as mobs mostly use the same skills as players do. -- Alaris 15:55, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Nerf everything until everyone sucks equally in PvP. Then everything will be equally as fun-(meaning that all are as boring as each other) [[User:Phill Gaston|Phill Gaston]]‎ 18:43, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

News just in, Ursan takes over PvP T1Cybernetic 18:52, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

looooooooooooool i'm quoting that nerf to WoD XD.well i'm actually quoting the whole thing :p Lilondra 06:33, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Nerfs? Wounding Strike is Evis on crack. A spammable COVERED dw with limited AoE, its on the bar of every halfdecent Dervish. Wail of Doom nerf? It was barely used before it got changed, now it can shut out a target for 4 out of 10 seconds, 8 out of 10 if you AE it, and its in Soul Reaping, so it generally requires no investment regarding atts. Kamer 08:47, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, you need 15 SR to get 4 seconds. thats a Sup. or Major rune if you have another attribute at 15. ~Phill Gaston ‎ 10:19, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Run a major you can run it and 3 seconds is enough heck even 2 is enough to kill a guy dont you get it its a RANGED KNOCKDOWN THAT DOES NOT CAUSE EXHAUSTION.see it as a 4 second gale that does not require exhaustion and is cheaper + is in youre primary attribute ! Lilondra 11:50, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

"I don't want to use dervishes in PvP" - are you retarded or something? Chilling Victory is insane even at a lower spec, and you still have Wounding Strike and insane autoattack damage on up to three people. Christ, every time I think the game's community might have some semblance of a brain, someone goes to prove me wrong. -- Armond Warblade 13:03, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

The irony in this section is that the user who made it listed all reasons why we didn't get enough nerfs yet : P Dervishes, assassins, necromancers - I hope all those professions' gimmicks get massively nerfed in PvP, and then the first two (together with ritualists) could be reworked into something useful, balanced and good for the game. Erasculio 13:21, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

It seems we are going to get a lot of buffs in underused elite skills, including the Raven and Volfen blessings. It seems they want them to be used more evenly, instead just picking one and using it only. MithTalk 16:07, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Loving the PvE skill updates nice job!!! woooo!!! 69.248.175.25 02:33, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Lol, the buffs to the warrior skills will certainly get us to use them - NOT!

Are you kidding? Changing Warrior's Endurance from a Stance to a Skill lets you do all sorts of fun things with high-cost ranger IAS stances. You can take some points in Beast Mastery, load your bar with Power Attack, Pure Strike, Jaizhenju Strike, and Tiger's Fury. Throw in Bull's Strike for good measure. --Phydeaux 03:29, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Flashing Blades Vers Gladiators Defense

Flashing Blades Cost 10 energy and has a 30 second recharge time(it will last for 30 seconds with 15 attribute points in dagger mastery wich means you can constantly keep it up) Gives you a 75% percent chance to block while attacking, Block effect attacker takes 20 damge (with 15 attribute points)

Gladiators Defense Cost 5 and has a 30 second recharge time( it will last 11 seconds with 15 attribute points into tactics)Gives you a 75% chance to block melee attacks Your attacker 35 damge whenever you block a melee attack this way

I think That gladiators Defense should be buffed to match flashing blades because if you where to put these skills up against each other (while attacking with melee that is) Flashing blades would win hands down by the time Gladiators wares off The person with Flashing blades will have about half there health so to make Gladiators more even i would juggest add 4 seconds or so to the duration of it --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:75.165.186.54 (talk).

Gladiator's blocks no matter what and only deals damage vs melee. Blades only blocks when you attack and deals damage vs melee and ranged attacks.--Underwood 07:38, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Yay, finally i wont get screamed at (as much) for using Flashing Blade's :D :D, Now lets wait for some builds to come out that use Flashing Blade's that'll turn it into "unbalanced" and get it re-nurfed :/ Darren Blacktail 13:22, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] update

UBER MICRO! gw is a new game, i guess. - Y0_ich_halt 08:57, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

plz fix those imba skills : Xinraes Weapon , the power is yours! , Visions of Regret and Flashing Blades.

Glimmering Mark bugs: 1) It ends when using ANY skill against target (this includes attack skills), 2) I assume this skill is supposed to have armor penetration; instead, the damage currently ignores armor. 75.190.224.181 11:15, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Two words: LOL URSAN. 24.18.89.24 12:31, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Update - Thursday, August 7, 2008

Something's wrong with my heroes after this update : they sometimes try to move and use a spell/signet at the same time repeatedly, resulting in an empty energy bar when it's a spell... happens in all areas. Appeared just after the update. Same builds did not trigger this behaviour before. So far I know for sure it's affecting Livia and Dunkoro, as I've caught them red-handed.58.5.245.251 13:56, 8 August 2008 (UTC)Aliabastre

-- Also, gotta fix the wording on the totem of man skill, it still says you lose all energy when you do not.

Well since you've caught them red handed, you could always send them to their rooms without supper BeeD 15:27, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Incorrect Updates: like the 7. aug

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

Hi i am Oficer of a Luxon Guild, i am Playing now 2 Years and a few month. I dont like the new Update and what they want to do with the next one.

This points disturbs me:

• ANet killed neraly all Farming Forms for low Level Players... Shadowfor, Ursan, and a few Earth skills, how do they get armor and so on without money.

• Title more easer for all! Why? where are many people hard working for it. You also can put it in Shop and sell it so all have max ranks i could not be! In this way. If you want to help the persons with lower level make more EVENTS

• I like it then the TEAM fixes Errors but not more.... You will loose all Players to other games. and i think twice to buy GW 2, if the compenie makes som many changes again.

• I think i am not so good as Player and i help all they ask me in limit but with the changes you kill all my options and the of all others to make there PJS Better

Greetings "Adrien Ansem" you can talk me in GW if needed

You can get max armor just by playing the game, without farming even. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 20:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Adrien. I am going to move this thread over to the page for discussion of updates, so that even more folks can read your thoughts and provide you with their insights. -- Gaile 20:49, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Gotta agree with Pwnzer there. I've played the game for three years and I've not spent a single hour farming. All my gold has been amassed by trading and pick ups. Doing it this way I've managed to buy max level armour for all my characters that I regularly play. Two of them have got the 2 sets of prestige armour each and a third has one set. So it's not really that difficult to amass the funds you need. It's called financial planning BeeD 00:16, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

To play Devil's Advocate, almost everything in the economy has dropped significantly in price while the cost of prestige armor has not changed, making it (in theory) harder to get. For example, a couple years ago a Rune of Superior Vigor was 39k but is now 18k. Or perhaps a better example would be black dye. Argel 21:42, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

1. with a little thought you should already be able to do similar endgame things with other combinations and practice, Elite Armor is completely optional too.

2. It relishes what the people want, a game where grind is completely optional, you asked for it.

3. GW 2 will be all new, your choice to get it or not (they do plenty of bugfixing and changes all the time too).

4. Finally... if anything you now have more options than ever, customize and experiment knowing that synergy is the key and that dodging as many obstacles you would come to expect is the key to making it through. 58.179.108.234 17:58, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] You are NOT fucking serious!!!!!

• Way of the Assassin: this skill now only works with daggers; reduced attack speed increase to 5..20%.
• THIS IS A JOKE RIGHT!?
• IF NOT THEN THIS IS TYPICAL ISAIAH CARTWRIGHT!!! BUFF A SKILL A LITTLE TOO STRONG,
• AND THEN TOTALLY NERF IT INTO THE GROUND INTO USELESSNESS,
• INTO A STATE WORSE THAN BEFORE!!!!

I am totally in endless rage now. I was fine with the speednerf, okay, 33% may have been too strong. Fine. nerf it. whatever. BUT DONT MAKE IT WORK WITH DAGGERS ONLY!!!!! WHO THE HELL! Needs more crit with Daggers, a weapon with 17 END DAMAGE??? Daggers are easily the worst weapons in Guild Wars, because of their inability to doublestrike when using skills, low end damage and totally broken dagger-chain-concept. And now you nerf all alternatives. RIDICULOUS

• Quitting Guild Wars for good if this isn't reverted within the next 7 days, Shroud of Silence already was a slap in the face. And NOT BUYING GUILD WARS 2

LoL you have Way of the Master thats all you need.--Underwood 00:55, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

..... no comment.

Wow...this skill is still really awesome. now scythe/spear/hammer/bow/wand sins can't use it. Sins use daggers. Is that a cardinal sin or something? (no pun intended, really). -- Wandering Traveler 00:58, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Assassins were created with daggers in mind, not scythes. That's what Anet is promoting with this update. Calor 01:02, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Awesome? Are you joking!? Do you even play an Assassin? If by awesome you mean awful then you are right! The ONLY thing that is a little better with this "new" version, is conjure builds. That's it. And for that about 10 other builds got nerfed. You haven't played an Assassin, no, or you wouldn't say we're supposed to use daggers. It's not the reality. Either you use a pwnage Elite that somehow hinders an opponent (snare, daze), or you use any other weapon but DAGGERS! What I'm saying is: NO ONE absolutely NO ONE will profit from +33% crit with DAGGERS with 17 end damage and a weapon that is already fast but low damage!!

And to the new comment that just edit conflicted I have to say: THE DAGGER CONCEPT IS BROKEN, CHAINS ARE EASILY BLOCKABLE, IF ONE SKILL IS BLOCKED YOU ARE A SITTING DUCK FOR USUALLY 12-15 SECONDS DOING A PUNY 30 CRIT WITH YOUR AUTOATTACK WHILE EVERY OTHER CLASS CONTINUES SPAMMING THEIR ORDER-NONDEPENDANT SKILLS. Thank you for your understanding.

Yay, one more great update : D Thanks Arena Net, now the skill (and assassins as a whole) are much better than before. I'm happy I have yet to play GW:EN with my assassin, would be a shame if I hadn't anything left to play with her. Erasculio 02:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I have a feeling that this was nerfed both due to the 'OP nature' (See: 35% IAS) and to get rid of the Assassin Critical Spearchuckers. (A/P, spammed this and Critical Eye along with several spear skills, including deepwound, daze (not sure if that one was elite), cripple, blind, and 25% armor piercing ones). Justified, considering X/P seems to be common in the current meta. (I've seen A/W/R/P all go spearchucking to reasonable effectiveness) (Applies to Dervs too, as Calor pointed out. Thanks!)Diva 03:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Last night, I gibbed a monk from [HGH] in under three seconds with a critscythe. Cry harder. --71.229.253.172 03:22, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

He really does love his caps lock key doesn't he? -- Salome 03:27, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

and bold — Seru Talk 03:29, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Wonder if I can have his stuff on the way out :P Nbajammer 03:35, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

2 Great updates in 2 days. 81.71.25.43 04:57, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

What? Way of the Assassin. Can you read? It's not 'Way of the Paragon' or 'Way of the Warrior' or 'Way of the Ranger' nor 'Way of the Dervish'. It's 'Way of Assassin'. Assassins use daggers. End of story. MithTalk 08:11, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Totally agree Mith,No more of those stupid A/D, A/R, A/W and A/P....i so happy that it got turned into with Daggers only :) Now people wont expect A/D's in almost every random PuG i find :D Darren Blacktail 13:24, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Seems a tad harsh. Also Mith, sorry but i dont agree with "X prof uses X weapon", the dual proff nature of GW is designed for diversity in play styles, thus no particular weapon should ever be "FOR" any particular profession. I do think the elite needs changed so it effects none daggers again but changed so it doesn't give as big an advantage as it did. -- Salome 13:35, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what are you talking about. There are skills that are meant for use along other weapons, like the Way of the Master. But Assassin's weapons are daggers. You MUST be an assassin to be able to use daggers. A secondary assassin it's an assassin too. MithTalk 15:59, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Sins are supposed to use daggers, and smart ones can get around blocking anyday, I'm sorry your scythe/spear/whatever sin blows now, wait, I'm not 68.47.192.6 14:49, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Lol.

Yeah, it is just about worse than it was before. Its good, but I think that it should be usable with any weapon, but the IAS buff only with daggers. That way old builds wont get destroyed, and new builds wont be OP. Maybe half Crit +% with non dagger weapons? ~Phill Gaston ‎ 23:17, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Assassins can still blast around with a Scythe y'know... it's not gimmicky or "Way of the X" The Assassin in guild wars was made to be a master of all arms to begin with, 13 Crit Strikes (If you're not silly you'll stick with Bow, Daggers or Scythe). 58.179.108.234 17:41, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

All can I say to the original poster is QQ moar and learn2gw 90.195.203.141 23:28, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

It was really overpowered before but I think they lowered the attack speed just a tad bit too much though. It should be +5...21...25% Done25 20:00, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Its not like you HAVE to use a dagger chain on a dagger sin, you just CHOOSE to, if you really wanted you could use ONLY lead attacks and Malicious Strike, then you wont have that "dependent" thing you were talking about 76.26.189.65 23:00, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Way of the Assassin

Change to:

• Elite Stance. For the next 20 seconds you have a +5...29...35% chance to land a critical hit. Also, while wielding daggers, you attack 5...17...20% faster.
• PLEASE, It's WORSE than before.

--The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:62.158.117.117 (talk).

It's WORSE than before...so ? let it burn in hell with every other A/D out there.--ChronicinabilitY 04:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree, also let a-net find a way to nerf that annoying as hell R/D. 81.71.25.43 04:52, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

How is it worse than before? You could use Way of the Master and get the same effect and use a different elite. Stacking this and Way of the Master was a waste anyway.--Underwood 09:33, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Agree'd kill it and all the damned CritScythe builds out there :D Darren Blacktail 13:26, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Except all the CritScythe builds out there pre-buff never touched WotA anyways, because nobody in their right mind uses up their Elite slot when they can do the exact same thing with a non-Elite skill.

...oh, right. WotA gives about a extra 4% critical boost over WotM, that's a perfectly good reason not to bring Wounding Strike.

On that note, with the new WotA (even the new-new one), I think a few old builds got buffed; there were a few WotA dagger 'Sins back when WotA first came out, and I can see those re-emerging. People are complaining that there's no reason to critical with a daggers' low power, and they forget all about the energy-management aspect. Want damage? use a skill. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 14:21, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Anet`s policy of Nerfing, useless blessings are Bad for Business

well you said that Ursan was overpowered although it opened elite areas to some weaker players. now ursan isnt usable anymore in places like DOA but well... ok, that isnt the point, along with that statement for ursan being over used on the expense of the other almost unused blessings, u said these blessings would become Better. so how comes? the ursan nerf is ok (except that economy now has amrbraces going for 100+70e and nobody wants to take some classes into their oldschool DOA teams) i strongly believed that raven and wolven should be very nice alternatives in most HM and elite regions if they only would have been added the same Armor bonus (as u indeed added, bit lower than ursan still) but the 60 seconds living time of Raven isnt really making the skill better now, neither making it an option for anything useful in elite regions.

Somebody pointed in a possible way elimating ursan way to make the skill behave normaly in parties of up to two ursans and as more ursan using player will be in party the over all damage would be reduced. i believe it was a great idea worth trying before ruining the three blessings at once.

i am not moaning about the loose of ursanway for me, though i accomplished many of the pve normal titles without even having more than 3 elites, heros or helping guildies. the game indeed is possible without blessings at all, but the problem is that it makes weak/average skilled players into skillless help depending players who proove impossible to manage in elite areas. so finding a balanced, good team of players (who dont curse and behave badly) in elite regions had dropped to a stage playing in these places is becoming the most unpleasant experience in the game (just as it was before)

the "equality" priniciple some of the anti-blessings moaners, who in most cases were players who showed narrow eye to the possibilty of newer players getting FOW armors, or moaning that new players got the chance to get titles easier than they had to do 2 years ago, creates a bias against anybody who is newer to the game, and seriously, THIS IS BAD FOR ANET`S BUSINESS, which is strongly dependant on mass purchase of the game and not on the good selfish feeling of small "elite" circle of players who care to point in most cases on players not using the OldSchool builds they use as Noobs. the blessings (though ursan was overpowered and abused) had much more positive attitued towards these newer players, dont forget the new ones who joined after eotn was introduced! the philosophy of nerfing PVE skills is seriously bad in my eyes, it take the game backwards, not regarding to what happens in other mmo`s and into the future and playingness of the game in several areas. - ONE PLAYER WHO GOT CURSED AND CALLED NOOB THAT TELLS IT TO 1000 OTHERS ABOUT GW IS BAD FOR BUSINESS. than one oldshcool whos heart hurts to see a new player with FOW armor. my point is - that the latest balance show a strong attitued against the larger mass of less skilled players in the game. specialy those who move into gw from concurent mmo`s.

i strongly disaggree to this attitude, saying now, that EOTN elite skills should be nerfed this way. EOTN was intended to the lvl 20 players, due to business reasons it was allowed to lvl 10`s, who had a golden oportunity to become strong fastly. but yes, the game developed in level of difficulty in EOTN so naturaly stronger skills were introduced, doing what anet did now, means anet admits that eotn was a bad expansion, bad for economy, and bad for everybody - except the real players who play the game, causualy but arent expressing their will and heart in guild wars wiki discussions. anet by this step ignored everybody who enjoyed the game how it was in the last year.

instead of nerfing skills, make elite regions harder, add difficulty levels to abused areas as you did in UW. the same would apply into all heavily abused areas. thats the positive way of growing and developing such enviroment. to say ursan was overkill in normal mode proph missions would be the same as saying that necrosis is overkill in prophecies and all other only pve skills and later skills are. so by this same rational why wont anet nerf all skills introcuded released after prophecies. where is the logic? do u really believe old school only is the only proper way to play this game? do u really believe that by bringing the game back into 2005-2006 standarts you are making it better and more friendly to new players? my responce is that it is BAD FOR YOUR BUISNESS.

this is my first ever post on wiki discussions, i am a player who joined the game only a year ago, i got introduced into eotn only during the winter event, means i finished campaings on several chars before i ever had any of the eotn skills. i never used px-wiki build to overcome a mission, my playing experience comes mostly from actualy playing the game. i am leader of a succesful pve full alliance, and own couple of full halled guilds. the eotn skills and the blessings allowed us to make new players better, allowed us to reach helping hand to lower level players who on other hand would leave the game cause of the learning curve would be to steep for them. i have many of these cases with WoW players we have and sadly "had" in the alliance. i wont say much about the absordity of the steep learning curve in gw pvp, its not the issue here, but my strong personal feeling is that the nerfing measures and the recent policy of a minority of farmers crying that ursan ruined their (half scamming) buisness in gw is very bad for anet`s Buisness. and the business is selling more games, and making the potential gw2 buyers circle bigger. if such policies will continue, the silent majority will have no choice but to silently react by not purchasing any more expansions or having any purpose to grind the game for a period of a year more, if they cant actualy find their place in most of the elite regions. thats simply bad strategy.

the outcome of this update is allready showing its face,

1. economy even in worst condition, only a small minority becomes "wealthy" now player who wont be able to afford the now inaccesible elite areas, wont grind the game to pay the farmers. but will play the game less.

2. some classes arent welcomed anymore in Domain of Anguish. only old school ways work there. - at least try to fix these spceific regions (DOA wasnt abused by ursan, but it was abused by hackers and dupers most of them from the hard core circle of gw players btw).

3. revert the other blessings to be usable in HM EOTN dungeons. people bought and played eotn with the blessings as they were intended to be played by your developing team. no body would say anything if these skills were only available in eotn from the start. completing dungeons in HM shouldnt be a practice of 3-4 hours work with the old school builds.

4. dont do any nerfes to overall game enviroment. (nerfing skills also makes foes weaker, then some builds become better again till they are nerfed again).

5. invest your resources and time in creating wealth possibilites by introducing new "elite" domains

6. the fact that the price of ectos dropped was not due to over farming of it, but mostly by the introduction of the zaishen title, making the zaishen keys trade rate higher, which made it a natural marketing target for the "rich" who could buy hundreds of keys in 1 key = 1 ecto rate. the z-key traders who are mostly pvp players, had no reason to waste time in trading them but sold them to the rare material traders for fast cash, thats how ectos dropped so fast. making z-keys more attainable and titles higher would solve this problem without ruining the whole PVE skill balance.

7. the principle of equality is a bad principle, skilled players should be rewarded more, in pve and in pvp. from historical point of view all comunistic attempts rose the biggest fraud and trickery, the same happens in the gw "equal" enviroment. i accept that some players being much better than me are entitled to get better mods, better weapons etc, it would also make me want to be better myself.

8. please learn from your mistakes, dont perpetuate them in GW2 specialy by making another open to everybody vs everybody unleveled pvp system. let the high lvl`s fight high lvl`s, as somebody who works with the ELO system in life, anet forgot to catecorise tournaments. without catecorising opponents just as is done in the chess world, pvp would be mostly open into scam and organised rank farming. all at the cost of making it unfriendly to new, and weaker players.

i wrote this long post, not for trashing or accusing anybody, but out of care for the overall experience in gw. and from deep concern to the outcoming future of the game. i understand well the need in careful balancing, and i bless the separation of pvp and pve skill updates. but making pve going back to 2006 wont cover for lack of content, and wont affect much such players who already attained all pve titles (like me) it will just make the new players (we all were noobs, i am regarding myself still as one even when ill get koabd r6).

comments would be more than welocme, Thank you. --Simon De Borovsk 04:12, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

tl;dr. Lulz. Diva 04:55, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Interesting post, but Ursan needed a nerf. Luckily, what came with that nerf were a whole bunch of "new" elites that allowed the creation of new builds, that hopefully will soon replace "old skool" builds such as HB and SF. Also, on the casual player portion, don't you have to grind to reach that nice r10 level? My two cents Lance 05:27, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

The PvE skills were all buffed so they could see decent use at the lower ranks (1-3) without making players having to feel as though they need to grind to be useful. As it stands, ranks 1-3 are like ranks 4-6 of the previous scaling system- all PvE skills were buffed in their overall effectiveness because of this. It also indirectly buffs Imbagon builds, as well, because of their spamming of TNtF and "Save Yourselves!" Diva 05:55, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

You're delusional and have no understanding of economics, society, or Anet's profit model. Also, learn to spell ffs. --71.229.253.172 06:05, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

It's funny to see "DOA wasnt abused by ursan" and "skilled players should be rewarded more, in pve and in pvp" in the same post. -Auron 06:17, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

And "so by this same rational why wont anet nerf all skills introcuded released after prophecies" surrounded by five paragraphs of gibberish. --71.229.253.172 06:22, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Imho, Anet is just buying time until GW2 beta starts. No new content is probably for GW1. They are just buying their time and trying to keep players interested long enough to get GW2 out the door. Change, good or bad, tends to be interesting. Hence why skill updates went from 2x a year to every month. Keep in mind, this is all imho.--Ryudo 06:36, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

The comment made by Ryudo seems, in my opinion, to be pretty realistic. Yseron - 81.251.148.109 07:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Arenanet has to keep people interested, with the silence of Guild Wars 2, Guild Wars is all we have, and if that goes dull so will interest in Guild Wars 2. I agree, for the most part, with Ryudo. Also, to point 3 I have to say "pfft" 3-4 hours for HM dungeons? Seriously? With or without Ursan it never took me that long to H/H HM dungeons. 000.00.00.00 07:27, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

The introduction of Ursan in it's original form may have been great for sales of EotN, but it was bad for Guild Wars over all. The expectations of lower level/lower skill players were boosted way over what they would have been otherwise. The point of Elite areas is suppose to be that they are more challenging, require a higher amount of skill and knowledge of game play and skill synergy, and take longer than the average missions/quests. The point of achieving success in them is knowing that you have attained those higher levels, through time and study of the game, as well as working with other players to form a working team, and are now able reap the higher rewards. I never understood the issues behind the cries of 'elitism' that went on in pre Ursan, pre Mallyx nerf DOA, as we had come up with builds for every profession that while they may not be considered standard for the profession, were still workable in DOA. With the introduction of Ursan Blessing, the 'elitism' became much more pronounced, while the quality of play, as well as the value of the rewards steadily decreased. Guild Wars from the beginning was suppose to be about Skill>Time, and while Ursan may have cut the time by 70%, it also decreased the skill level by that much as well. Hopefully now, with the still upcoming addition of Tormented Weapons to the HoM, people who enjoy the challenge of the game, pitting their skill against what seem to be impossible odds will start thinking again, and get creative in finding ways to complete the DOA quests without cheap marketing ploys.

You say that this update is Anet's admission that EotN was a bad expansion, what is wrong with that? It WAS a bad expansion. It lacked thought and the kind of effort that went into the other campaigns and introduced a 'let's see how much of their time we can waste grinding for title ranks while we change our focus to GW2' mentality that has left some of us feeling cheated. I personally have more respect for them for finally making a real effort to bring some of the skill requirements back to the game, and it's making me rethink my plan to not purchase GW2 when it comes out.-- Wyn 08:39, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Simon takes the game a bit too seriously, plus he finds he cannot join groups without his EoTN elite. He sees other professions that aren't ele, warrior or monk in the elite areas as useless. He just wants to be able to join anything. --Chieftain Alex 13:29, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Updates are good for business, depending on what skills get changed is what makes which people happy. You can't please everyone with every update, except those damn rangers that anet seems to love. 68.47.192.6 14:55, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

To the original poster: Why are you bringing unskilled players into an elite area anyway? If you're not bringing them in, why are you pugging them? They're called elite because they're for the players that know what's up. If you want to bring people there, teach them how to play first before coming here and whining. If you're pugging, perhaps you should... stop pugging? Crenel 04:35, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I am going to do some brain washing to erase my memory so that your statement about those areas that cant be puged can stay true. Yseron - 90.27.128.84 04:59, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

No need to give me that, I was just offering a legitimate alternative, based off of his original post. If he seems to be having trouble pugging certain elite areas, perhaps he should stop pugging and train some friends to play with him. To quote what I was referring to:

"i am not moaning about the loose of ursanway for me, though i accomplished many of the pve normal titles without even having more than 3 elites, heros or helping guildies. the game indeed is possible without blessings at all, but the problem is that it makes weak/average skilled players into skillless help depending players who proove impossible to manage in elite areas. so finding a balanced, good team of players (who dont curse and behave badly) in elite regions had dropped to a stage playing in these places is becoming the most unpleasant experience in the game (just as it was before)" Crenel 05:47, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Have to say that as much as Simon is concerned with the game - and he's probably not a native english speaker so easy on his spelling guys @_@ -, he does contradict the whole argument himself. Ursan should never have been an excuse to any 'skill-less' or 'weak/average skilled players' to expect to be able to successfully play the Elite dungeon areas! OMG. I remember pre-HM DOA with sad memories because I am a Paragon, even though being Holy Lightbringer, there was no room for any Paragons in DOA at the time after the paragon's monster nerf episode that went around. Thanks to my revulsion at playing ursan, I still could not get into PUG's, so out the window goes the 'equality' argument. Also, understand this, there will always be 'Elitism'. This may be a game, but real people are involved! How you work with/around this is entirely up to you, but your decision results in whether you continue to play or not, not a skill nerf. Now this doesn't really bother me, because I am good enough of a player to go into DOA with one other guildy and our heroes. We build our hero skills with the knowledge that we are going into DOA, an elite area. We do not use the 'Old Skool' builds, we do not even take an elemental hero. We take one monk. The builds we use are very specific to give us an advantage as a party. Mallyx has fallen more than 12 times to me and my guildy - man, I dunno what anet was thinking...they make such cool torment weapons and then Mallyx drops that rubbish, although the shield does look better on a mesmer, lmao! The people who are struggling with areas or missions or quests must understand; party build is about synergy of skills! Using Ursan will only mean one thing, 'the weak/average skilled players' and 'skill-less' players will remain such if they are only to rely on one skill! The only learning curve involved in acquiring ursan, was actually learning what a grind is and what buttons to press when in Ursan. Effective skill interrupt, proper attack timing all just went out the window! Which doesn't really say much about the other mmo's if the sad ex-Ursan players would rather play there. It's sad that such an attitude does exist, the game is about excitement, learning new ways to counter an area with every skill balance, exploring and creating a new boundry! If players leave because of ONE particular skill being nerfed, then all I hear from that is the 'complainer and whiners' leaving. These are the players that will never get a full picture of the game lore, who won't experiece the game's fullness and that's sad. The players that stay and say good things about the game and enjoy that it does require a substantial amount of skill to succeed in and enjoy that stimulus, will only bring in more players to the Guild Wars world and to all of them, I sincerly hope to see you all in Guild Wars 2!--Shaia 07:57, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Assassin hate

Reading through these comments makes me /facepalm nonstop. You ignorant HATERS! "Agree'd kill it and all the damned CritScythe builds out there" "No more of those stupid A/D, A/R, A/W and A/P....i so happy that it got turned into with Daggers only :)" WAKE UP! The assassin class was DESIGNED to spike you, STOP CRYING FOR GOD'S SAKE THAT A CLASS I DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO DO. You don't complain that that monk enemy is healing his comrades, do you!? But buuuuh-huuuh that assassin spiked you down because you didn't find it necessary to devote one of your slots for melee-protection. Freakin hypocrites I wanna see your class nerfed and how you react then...hope you're happy that 1 class in this game get's completely destroyed in every single update because of your Q_Q

/facepalm

What assassins were designed to do is utterly imbalanced in a game focused on team play and maneuvering. They should have never existed, and any update that moves towards either reworking their intended purpose or completely removing them from Guild Wars is laudable. And if you think Izzy pays any attention to what the player base wants, you haven't been paying attention. --71.229.253.172 18:51, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Put simply, the main spoil of the Assassin is to exploit the very beautiful Critical Strikes... The Assassin is a solid and balanced class anti-able like ALL the others. 58.179.108.234 17:36, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Dear mr un registered IP  i smell some sarcasm (or noobyness) there Lilondra 19:33, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Recent and upcoming updates.

Now for starters I have comment on the discussion, that have been made about the new skill updates. The posts that some have made in here and in forums like in GuildWarsGuru are like childish complaints, when something isn't to your liking, and this kind of behaviour isn't pleasing to read. Others have made good comments and suggestions, which I'm happy to see. I just hope that everyone tries to understand, that making these kind of changes to a game is hard and cannot satisfy every wish that players have. If something seems unbalanced, overpowered or just a change to worse then say it in a manner that is polite. This way your ideas may be understood better and not passed by, over use of capslock or whining. That being said, on to the comments about the update.

• I'm very happy to see this kind of an update in the game, as it makes some aspects refressing and new. Most of the elites had a nice change and as said in the developer updates: there will be changes within a week if there's the need (to balance the elites if they are too powerfull or weak). So make suggestions if somenthing needs to be changed.

I'm not going to say alot what changes were great, because then my post would be really long. I'm going to comment a few concerns about some elites, skills and changes that would need to be adressed (other things are either great or I just don't see any problems with them). Although I have mention that the newest change to "Way of the Assassin" is very good and was needed.

• First about the GvG changes: removing the npc travel to flag stand in WoD feels a good thing and the removal of the effects too, but the removal of Precision Shot and Bodyguards offensive skills seems a bit too much. I'm afraid that now there isn't almost no fear (and strategy) to attack the enemy base and builds that utilice Necromancer heroes would have serious momentum in there. Guilds that don't have top players will have massive problems to stop these kind of teams now that your base doesn't have much strength anymore to defend. I'm concerned about these things, but not actually experienced this situation yet after the update in GvG (as my guild hasn't played GvG yet).
• Then to the skills.
  • Extend Conditions had a very significant boost and I'm worried, that it's slightly too powerfull now. I'm very happy that the skill has the spread conditions aspect now to it. It's just that the energy cost, cast time and recharge are quite low and being just a skill causes it to be, in my opinion atleast, superior when comparing to Fevered Dreams and not equal (the spread area is different, but still).
  • "It's just a flesh wound" is now a nice skill, but in my opinion it was good already before the update. There isn't anything bad in this skill, it just seems somewhat funny now when looking the description and the skills name.
  • Scavenger's Focus was good before and whit the change it's still good, I'm just wondering about the Developer Update note which said that this is a stance now but it isn't when I tried it (maybe a mistake in the Developer Updates or not).
  • Incendiary Arrows was a very interesting elite before and I liked it. Now it's very nice too, but being almost like Barrage/Volley with lower targets but larger area seems fine to me but not removing preparations seems a bit weird.
  • Tryptophan Signet got the lower rank efectiveness change like other pve-only skills had and it's good, but I'm just wondering why the skills bug/description wasn't fixed (doesn't affect the adjacent foes) as the this aspect has been known for half a year now.
  • The last thing I'm wondering is that a update this large didn't balance the Penetrating/Sundering Attacks damage amount in pve as it is too high when compared to Power Shot (looking the recharge and the 10% armor penetration advantages, you will see that power shot is useless in pve at the moment).

That's all I have to say about the updates for now. Sorry about this being so long. CrimWanderer 15:09, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

In my opinion, the reason that Incendiary Arrows did not have the "removes preparations" clause added to it is because it doesn't have the extra damage the other multi-shot skills provide. It seems to in its current state hold truer to what a Ranger really should be doing anyway, which is spreading conditions as fast as possible. The radius on the attack, considering that it deals no additional damage as well as short bursts of semi-pressure, seems fitting in my opinion, and allows for more directly offensive rather than passive use of the Wilderness Survival tree. If you do decide you want extra damage with this elite, you have to use up your Preparation slot, so you are essentially stuck with the option of either short bursts of high degen, short bursts of mediocre damage plus average degen, or short bursts of AoE interruption with average degen. Any way you look at it, the skill's actual effects balance itself out. If anything needs to be done to it, the recharge time should be raised to 4-6 seconds, but to me it is fine as-is. Crenel 04:55, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Your approach, though, has the ranger trying to be too much and achieving too little, a "jack of all trades and a master of none". Its recharge time is in line with Barrage's and Barrage is a whole lot more powerful. Still I haven't worked on the updated incendiary arrows substantially yet, so I'm sure I can come up with a way of working with it BeeD 09:25, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Volley and barrage hit more foes, but remove preparations. All things considering, I would not say that Incendiary is inferior, but rather that it is meant to be used with preps to achieve its full potential. Also, there are plenty of mobs that are just too small to get the full advantage of volley/barrage. -- Alaris 13:40, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

The reason to the statement, that Incendiary arrows is weird, is because atleast untill now spreading conditions (when playing as a ranger) has been meant to be challenging (you had to change your targets etc.). With this elite players can, quite easily and fast, spread conditions to multiple targets in GvG:s and cause pressure to the opposing team faster. It is true that you lose a elite skill this way (and maybe effectivenes against a single target), but still. I just feel that the idea of Guild Wars (the players skill in playing the characters and their builds is important) is starting to fade away (yes there was Ursan that made the game very easy, but atleast it was in pve not pvp). Anyways I'm not saying anything bad about this skill (atleast I'm trying to make my posts feel like this), I'm just concerned about the whole idea behind rangers and their skills (Barrage/Volley).CrimWanderer 20:25, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A Suggestion For The New A-Net Philosophy

Here is a suggestion for A-net: Why don't you guys just put an "auto-battle" option into the game? It seems like you are trying to gear Guild Wars towards the underachievement crowd. I know they are very happy with Ursan because they no longer have to bother with things like reading skill descriptions, mis-aggro and what skills enemies are using. Think about how much happier they would be if they could just check in a box for auto-play and then just walk away or watch as thier characters dominate areas that once too skill and an explorative spirit to conquer. It really wouldn't be any more detrimental to Guild Wars than Ursan Blessing was...... and at this point the game has been weakened and devalued to the point that it is beyond any kind of fix anyways. Also you may as well let the people using Auto-Play keep all thier Loot and be awarded the same titles as the people who actually took the time to learn the game and earn the titles. This would make the crowd that likes Ursan very happy, and since they are obviously the only customer group you want to keep as you go into GW2 it will insure more sales. People that use Ursan don't really care wether they have earned something or not, they just want to have it. They are the type of players that buy in-game gold online because they want to have Voltaic Spears and FoW armor , but they don't want to be bothered by anything as pesky as having to earn them, after all they are all very busy and have too much of a life to spend the time necessary. Who cares how that impacts the honest players that earn stuff legitimately, right? If they don't want to be effected by stuff like that they can just choose not to use it ,right? I stopped playing Guild Wars a little while after Ursan Blessing took hold. Guild Wars no longer offers anything in the way of incentive to play beyond doing everything once. Titles and Economic achievements once provided for a great deal of extended play, but the implementation of Ursan Blessing turned them into a farce. I am not going to be buying GW2, or anything A-net or NCSoft produces ever again. I was watching for this nerf thofor the last year or so though, I knew they eventually would have to do something about it. The nerf shows some thought I guess, but it is way way way too little way way way too late. A-Net you have failed on a scale so epic that you can never hope to undo it. Enjoy the new community you have custom built for Guild Wars 2. I won't be there, I prefer to play games, not find ways to not play them.68.230.155.31 16:21, 9 August 2008 (UTC)Wildcard

Thank God you won't be there! This whole rant says you just want to be better than others, and how dare ANET create a skill that lets others have the same things you have without struggling and spending alot of time to get them! I am proud to say that I liked Ursan. This is a game! I play it a few hours in the week. I want to have fun playing it. That's what games are for. I don't spend hours reading the thousands of skill descriptions and deliberating over possible builds, because I have a real life! Since you're not playing anymore, maybe you can get a real life too. Start with job, and then find yourself some friends.... --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:217.234.235.218 (talk).

Your argument is intensely hypocritical. You are a casual gamer, yet you like a skill that promotes grinding over 12 hours to start using in a group? Ursan is the epitome of non-casual gaming. You have to complete an entire campaign (or most of one, anyway), go over to Eye of the North and complete a good chunk of that campaign, then do a rather long side quest to get the skill Ursan Blessing, then spend literally hours and hours of your "life" farming points so you can join pugs that require r10 norn. How the hell is that casual? If you have the time to do all that grinding, you have time to read up on what specific skills do. My advice; don't use an argument like "I'm a casual gamer" when defending a skill that promotes grind over casual play. It just doesn't work. -Auron 06:09, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Don't be a complete fool. I never did all that grinding you're talking about. Ursan worked just fine at mid or even lower levels. While I know that some crowds spent lot's of time screaming for r10's, that never stopped me from using Ursan just about everywhere else. My Norn rank is not maxed, because I don't grind. I took a factions character who was 10th level to EotN, and got Ursan while still level 17. It was easy. No grind, no completion of an entire campaign (not even near), and EotN is still only 1/3rd finished... I am a casual gamer, and Ursan was a great skill for casual gamers. Ursan does not promote grinding, people do. Your advice is worthless because you obviously don't know what the hell your talking about and don't have the brains to educate yourself.... --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:217.234.207.205 (talk).

I missed when suddenly a skill could be categorized as one for 'casual gamers'. Like Auron pointed out, being accepted into groups as an Ursan required a really high rank. Unless you're saying you play with mostly NPCs, then that's quite the life you've got, playing a 'MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER' online game. You could run anything for 'casual gaming' as you could run Ursan. Fail argument is fail. Diva 05:36, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Fail argument is a fail? Can you not even construct logical and meaningful sentances? You need to stop gaming and concentrate on school. Yes, I can, and do, run anything for casual gaming. It was never only Ursan. However, the fact that I run other things in no way detracts from my arguments. The only person here suggesting that a skill be classified as one for "casual gaming" is you, and that's not exactly a constructive argument. I do, in fact, often play with NPC's, but not exclusively so. I have been accepted into groups throughout the game despite having a Norn rank of only 6. Your argument fails because you are deeming to dictate to me what I have and have not done, what I can and can not do. That is simple stupidity. Worse, it is the kind of ignorant arrogance that spawns terrorists, nazi's, and other fanatics, including the wanna-be-elite, ursan hating fanatics to which you are attempting to belong. Oh, and yes, I do have quite the life. Successful in my career, a loving family, and long lasting friendships. Pity that you seem to identify the word "life" with a game....

I suddenly belong in the group that spawns terrorists and nazi's because I'm arguing against you concerning an online game and a wiki about aforementioned game? It's trolling, dude. Learn it, love it. Dense poster is dense. Diva 23:01, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

From what I'm seeing here, you both stopped discussing skills a little while ago... chill out, guys. If you think 217.234 is trolling, Diva, then you should also remember that responding is the worst thing you can do. It just gives something to troll about. And at 217.234, believe it or not it's possible to get a point across without insulting the other party in an argument. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 00:09, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Underworld Changes

Anyone else quite sick of the constant changes they're doing to the mindblades and the Dream Rider spawns?

The day I hate change is the day I consider myself "old". (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 06:09, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Lack of change is called stagnation. Figuring out how to work with the changes keeps the game somewhat more interesting, give you a reason to change up your build and playstyle. -- Wyn 06:21, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

No. Changes are good. It's better that staying always the same. When things are always the same, people just go to a build site, download the build, and use it. There's no point in that. MithTalk 14:22, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Fixes and balances are always welcome. As for changes for variety, I think that's good too. Most casual players probably won't notice, but it keeps the farmers on their toes. -- Alaris 14:24, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

If your old build can't handle the new changes, or if you're too lazy/incompetent to make the old build work, perhaps it's time to experiment with a new build? Crenel 05:33, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I, personally, am sick of them trying and failing to fix the economy... Which, to a large degree, is why I no longer play. -- Armond Warblade 15:36, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Why can't PvE characters use PvE skills In PvP?

Why aren't PvE characters allowed to use PvE skills in PvP? PvP characters don't have access to them, but PvE character's don't have access to the best items in the game. I don't like being slaughtered in PvP every time I go against a PvP character. Can you either allow PvE skills in PvP, or separate PvE characters from PvP characters into 2 different classes while fighting in PvP combat(Just to make it more even for all players).

Project Gnome 20:35, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

or just make a PvP character? ~PheNaxKian Talk 20:52, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Or just make your PvE character PvP worthy.~Phill Gaston ‎ 23:21, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

PvE characters have easy access to the best items in the game - a max damage sword with a good "inscription" may be bought from a collector or from a crafter for less than the price of a common armor set. Thankfully, the most expensive weapon in the game (Tormented stuff, I guess) has no better stats than what the NPCs sell everywhere. Between this and the green items (which you get as a reward for finishing each campaign), items are easy to obtain. Erasculio 00:05, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Because fighting a Cryway/Ursan/Imbagon team would be ridiculous --Metroid 02:24, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

If you don't like being slaughtered, stop sucking. --72.253.203.101 02:43, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

PvE only skills are for facing the challenges that the PvE environment presents, especially to the more causal players, and not the challenges of PvP. So basically introducing some of the PvE only elements would be overpowered, not just skills, but like heroes in HA/TA/AB would be just as bad. Yukiko 03:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Also, it's because in PvE the monster levels go above 20 hence you will need a bit more ammunition to kill them. Otherwise, learn2pvp BeeD 13:48, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

don't start the same topic on 2 spots in the wiki please... Pulpulpullie 14:15, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

oh honestly -_-; 58.179.108.234 17:32, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The death of sin-split = death of the GvG-Assassin

With the new VoD-changes the basic sin-split concept is out of the game. So can we now try to find a way to actually implement the assassin class into GvG gameplay? Since, let's face it: splitting was the only thing assassins were ever capable at doing in GvG and now that's entirely revamped. Don't ask me what the f*** should be done, but I'm sure there are some people with at least a couple of decent ideas. Either that, or just /del the class entirely.--ILLUSiVE 14:21, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Not very experienced with GvG here, much less the new setup, but doesn't the rework of the Bodyguard basically make it easier for a 'Sin to be used as a Guild Lord ganker? (serious question, by the way.)

And at the very least, 'Sins are still quite useful in nearly every other PvP mode, so try to keep that in mind. GvG =/= the entire game. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 00:12, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

The actual strength from sin-split came in it's ability to easily score NPC-kills before VoD to gain a tremendous advantage at the stand. It's strength was never to take out or put pressure on the Guild Lord, although that was somewhat possible. And while GvG isn't the entire game it IS the main aspect, the focus, of the game, so the class being excepted from that form of gameplay is a definite downside.--ILLUSiVE 12:15, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

sin-split was bad. it will not be missed. --Readem 04:49, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

And I never said anything about missing it either. Just wanted to point out that (aside from scythe-sins) it was the only place where assassins where actually ever useful. (forgot to sign...)--ILLUSiVE 12:15, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Ignore readem, Illusive, that's about the normal level of his contributions to a debate. -- Salome 14:15, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Salem readem is right sinsplit was bad for the game and nobody playing it deserved to win (yes mistral edge included) Lilondra 17:48, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I disagree, Mistral Edge is still up in the top 20 even after sinsplit's dissolve. Just because they used a build that was more powerful than the cookie-cutter 'balanced' build doesn't make them bad players. A lot of bad guilds may have done well with sinsplit, but [Me] certainly wasn't one of them.--Kite 18:09, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

There doing well can be transelated as they found a new gimmick and get owned by top 100 guilds that run balanced because they even fail at spiking L O L Lilondra 12:35, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Wait, they weren't bad players just because they had to rely on an overpowered build to win? That's exactly what you just said, in very slightly different words. -- Armond Warblade 15:34, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

They did use it, but that doesn't make them bad players. The fact that they're still 19th after the collapse of sinsplit says that they were more skilled than their builds show. Alternatively, they may have found a new gimmick -- one of those two. I stopped watching them after they dropped sinsplit, which was at least interesting to watch. Anyway, I'm just saying that you can't judge a player's skill purely by their build.

By the way, what exactly made sinsplit a gimmick, as opposed to the "balanced" build? As far as I can tell, sinsplit just takes out the two Warriors and puts in two spiking Assassins in their place. If they had been W/A with shadowsteps, spiking with axes, would it be considered a gimmick? --Kite 19:21, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

No? Sinsplit was overpowered as hell. It abused VoD and, more specifically, ViO by utterly decimating any NPC opposition, essentially guaranteeing a ViO advantage. It abused shadowsteps (though the argument can be made that "using" shadowsteps is the same as "abusing" them) to break into an enemy base, decimate NPCs (which, because Assassin chains rely on energy instead of adrenaline, could be done much more quickly and with much less downtime than Warrior spikes could - it could also be said that the Warrior's spike would probably do about as much damage as the Assassin's if you included the autoattack swings to gain adrenaline, whereas the Assassin's spikes rely to a large degree on the bonus damage of their attack skills instead of their weapon's base damage), and, most importantly, get out without a problem.

Sinsplit further abused the power of Ineptitude, a skill with bad design in the first place - placing high damage and blind on a skill that will essentially only be used on targets under the effects of Frenzy was bad planning, especially as placing it on a frenzied target gives them far, far less time to react to the skill.

In bringing the Ineptitude mesmers, Sinsplit also abandoned the utility of the Elementalist and Esurge midline.

-- Armond Warblade 16:38, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Ah, okay. I still don't understand why Arenanet hasn't implemented shadowstep immunities into the game. I would personally like some weaker skills changed to also cause shadowstep immunities, and shadowstep immunity for the Guild Lord and other significant PvP NPCs.

I suppose my biggest concern is that certain professions and skills seem to be excluded (read as 'nerfed to obsolescence') from Guild versus Guild to keep the status quo. For example, consider Ineptitude and Frenzy. It is my opinion that, while Ineptitude may be overpowered, instagib to Frenzied Warriors is not a proper reason to nerf the skill. A skilled Warrior should understand and accept the consequences of using Frenzy, and an unskilled Warrior should learn from such an encounter.

The "balanced" build shouldn't be coddled so it can stay the same forever. A build should be called balanced because, with skilled players, it can beat most or all gimmicks, not because it's "fair". If it can't beat the current gimmicks, it's not really a balanced build, only a "fair" build. I'd go into my "moderately effective gimmicks are essential to the existence of truly balanced builds" spiel, but I'd probably take much too long. It's already taken me more than an hour to type, edit, and improve this comment. --Kite 03:57, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thursday 14th August

I downloaded an update but there is no mention of any changes here or the official site. I don't know when it went live I only just logged in. Anyone know what it was? 122.104.165.13 21:07, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Nope, nobody knows. There's always a delay between the update going live and Anet posting on guildwars.com and editors copying it to the wiki. Calor 21:10, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Update notes live now in the wiki.--Fighterdoken 21:13, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

This update fixes nicely the problem in GvG, that occured after the last update (teams just had to wait to 20min for the Guild Lord to walk from the base and then kill it). Now splitting and killing the enemy bases npc's are a viable tactics, and teams have to go to the enemys base. But I'm still concerned about the defences of the bases, even more now. Removing Guild Thieves, gate locks, Presicion Shots from archers and offencive skills from the Bodyguard just seems too much. Now anyone can go to the enemy base to kill the npc's and the player won't have any problems with it, as the npc's don't do much damage anymore (they even have dificulties against pets in 1 on 1 which is kind of funny). In my opinion something should be returned to GvG's, that where removed (not all of them, but something so that you have to be carefull atleast a bit in the enemy's base). Giving the rangers their Precision Shot back or Bodyguard gets it's offencive skills back would make the situation better (or atleast bring back Guild Thieves and gate locks so that killing the thief would stop the split for some time).CrimWanderer 10:27, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Giving the NPCs som "bang" back: sure, might be nice. Re-inserting the Guild Thieves: no, thank you... Always hated the little critters... And killing the theif was always an easy way to prevent a split in maps where it was needed. The way it is now, countering a split requires slightly more of an effort from the team on some maps than it used to, which is better in my opinion.

And also I believe it would be better if ANet took a look at some of the suggestions for how to improve VoD that can be found on forums. Or hell, just taking a glance at the feedback-pages would probably do.--ILLUSiVE 10:59, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

In my opinion Guild Thieves where are good thing. Thiefs provided some strategy to the games (in the maps that had thiefs) in using them and in killing them. Split groups had to use them wisely and defending teams had to kill them in the right situations. Thieves hindered the effectivenes of splits (this I agree), but it was just one element in the whole GvG experience. You should remember that there where Guild Halls (Frozen, Nomad's, Druid's, Isle of the Dead, Burning, Imperial, Jade and Corrupted), that didn't have thiefs and because of this had differend styles of play (compared to the ones that had thiefs). Besides even though you killed their thief, it didn't stop the split if it was inside the base already (it only stopped the split from coming to the base for a while).CrimWanderer 11:47, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Macs fail at archiving

It's telling me that my command-X didn't cut more than one line out while I was trying to archive, and the next diff shows me reverting Kurd's change. The history page and tabbing through the diffs give totally different results. Someone archive everything from before this month, please. -- Armond Warblade 15:44, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

It's not a problem in your computer, the wiki is having some problems these last days, mostly on the history pages and the recent changes. Erasculio 16:12, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

......whyyyyyyyyyyy -- Armond Warblade 12:18, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

It's an issue with the server time randomly changing. For example, look at the timestamsp in this section. You posted your response to Erasculio three and a half hours before you started the section ;) ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(talk) 04:39, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] LOL

Everyone that bitched on this page had extremely poor grammar. I'm afraid to speak out about nerfs because I might be associated with you morons who think I R GOOD NO?!?!? is proper english. Go back to fucking school and learn. _RASK_96.25.96.218 01:36, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I am glad that you are interested in keeping the English language's grammar structure, but I noticed a few slight errors in your post. "I R GOOD NO?!?!?" should be in quotes and the first letter of "english" should be capitalized. In the statement, "...with you morons...", "you" is awkward and redundant, and should probably be removed. In the first statement, "...page had extremely...", "had" would work better as "has extremely poor grammar" or "has exercised extremely poor grammar", or a similar improvement. The beginning of the second sentence, "I'm...", is informal, and would be better suited for conversation than written work, and your use of vulgarities displays a vocabulary deficiency. --Kite 02:36, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Owned, No? ~Phill Gaston ‎ 06:22, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Indeed BeeD 11:54, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

People here are making grammar mistakes because they're probably not from an English speaking country (USA/UK), such as myself. I'm 100% sure that the only language that you speak is English. How do I know this? Because you wouldn't have made fun of people's grammar mistakes if you had known how hard it is to learn and master a new language. Please do all of us "morons" a favor and crawl back to your hole. I'll surely get a note for this in my user page, but it's more than worth it.--ITAMAR 17:26, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Having taught at University level, I'd say that the opposite is more common. Sure, University level might be different. But in my experience, those for whom English is the 2nd language are more likely to try to use correct grammar, whereas 1st-language tend to become lazy and use all forms of shortcuts. -- Alaris 19:30, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

It could just be that English is a dynamic language that is constantly changing and the text books can't keep up. Sadie2k 21:47, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Nah, i would go for Alaris option. As a non-english speaker myself, i have already enough problems trying to write readable sentences, so kinda hard for me to use shortcuts. Native speakers (from any language), on the other hand, know most rules, so they are aware of which ones they can ignore as to still convey their message to their pairs. Sadly, "their pairs" doesn't include non-native speakers.--Fighterdoken 21:59, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

What I said is not limited to English. The more confortable you are with a language, the more easily you can understand it even if it is written or spoken with errors. -- Alaris 13:43, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Plus, Americans are fat and lazy and must save as many keystrokes as possible xD (Also, Fighterdoken, I think you meant "peers" instead of "pairs") ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(talk) 14:54, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

If you can't read/write proper English, you must be retarded; it's the easiest language to learn in the world. The larry 15:49, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

English is not an easy language. Considering that it manages to make some sense at all is quite amazing to me, and I'm a native english speaker, I've found other languages more understandably grammatically and have an standard pronunciation, neither of which english really has. It has a ton of rules, and tons of exceptions to the rules,etc,etc. Just because someone doesn't have a full grasp on english doesn't make them less intelligent. And I also agree with Alaris' take on who generally uses bad grammar/spelling. 75.146.48.190 16:24, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

inglesh are fer fajits and joos liek yoo,,, luv ya all. piece, --75.94.77.148 16:48, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Wizardboy777 - my comment was not aimed at Americans in particular. It was aimed at the lazy. There are lazy people everywhere. -- Alaris 19:34, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 21 August 2008

As seen here:

[edit] Skill Updates

PvE and PvP

Elementalist

• Glimmering Mark: increased damage to 10..30.
• Glowing Ice: Energy gain reduced to 2..9.
• Icy Shackles: snare duration reduced to 1..10 seconds.

Ranger

• Disrupting Lunge: recharge time increased to 20 seconds.

PvP

Monk

• Smiter’s Boon: recharge time increased to 90 seconds, Energy cost increased to 25, duration reduced to 5 seconds.

[edit] AI Updates

• Updated the AI for Heroes and henchmen to fix an issue that caused them to sometimes attack enemy targets from too far away.
• Updated the AI for Heroes and henchmen to improve their ability to recognize when their leader is fleeing from combat.
• Updated the AI for Heroes and henchmen to fix an issue that caused them to occasionally become confused and run in circles.

Erasculio 17:36, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

LOL is this real :P? "Smiter’s Boon: recharge time increased to 90 seconds, Energy cost increased to 25, duration reduced to 5 seconds." ???? xD Aljazya 20:17, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry but this is fucking stupid. Izzy has to go, smites are now COMPLETELY fucking useless. 80.193.1.106 20:19, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

It does look like it would have been better to just mark Smiter's Boon as a pve skill and be done with it. Sadie2k 20:26, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

It wasn't even fucking broken in the first place! Nerfed the ONLY good smite skill in the whole fucking line that makes it useable. 80.193.1.106 20:30, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

The smiters boon "change" is an act of vandalism and no real change. Refer to the change history. SniperFox 20:32, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

No, it's been referenced somewhere before. I read it in upcoming changes hours before the change happened. 80.193.1.106 20:33, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

It's real. Incoming Developer Update about it as well, plus Regina (or Emily) will likely "officially" post these notes here. Erasculio 20:34, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

TOO FUCKING TRUE IT'S REAL. And this is RIDICULOUSLY STUPID. 80.193.1.106 20:35, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I've looked ingame and it indeed seems to be true. I hate the way the updates are always ridicously over the top and they're doing no effort at all to finetune things. SniperFox 20:36, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

It has the same cost and takes 30 more secounds to recharge than meteor shower xD 81.156.148.195 20:39, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

They forgot to add Exhaustion, though. Erasculio 20:41, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

... And Rebirth style disabling. That'd be neat! :rolleyes:

They also forgot that it requires 3 hits of adrenaline. Natso 22:40, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Joke? why not remove it?

Smiters boon pvp version, 25e 90 sec cool down for 5 seconds of double divine favor GG

Best update ever.

See, it has great potential now!--Bargaw 20:43, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I LOL'ed at that. They can't be serious. --77.243.44.26 20:52, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

It's a 'Don't use this, try other thing'. MithTalk 20:56, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

lmfao, that skill was quite possibly one of the most useless skills in the game, except possibly on some sort of mutant smite/prot hybrid used by RA noobs or GvG monks with builds they got off of PvX Wiki and then asploded into utter stupidity to suit their own purposes... that update couldn't have been anything but a joke, could it? -- Vorith (talk•contribs) 01:16, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Because any build that's lame and easy to run obviously originated on PvX, right? You're horrible - go learn how the game works and try again. -- Armond Warblade 01:20, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] TA

Is saved from three smiter 1 r/w, and the 2 smiter 2 r/w with axe garbage that has been infesting it for a very long time. Thanks a ton for an amazing update, truly happy about this!!!

You're forgetting about this.70.251.251.24 20:42, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

God bless, Izzy. :P --76.25.197.215 21:22, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Don't listen to the haters Mr Cartwright, nobody of any worth is going to miss this skill. Apart from Foul Feast, TA might be a nice place to be again (not to mention the GvG gimmix). Much love from this IP: 87.194.98.16 21:53, 21 August 2008 (UTC)