ArenaNet talk:Developer updates/20080521

Shadow Form

Shadow Form: increased duration to 5..30 seconds. Auch Fox007 18:40, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Restoration of Skill Effectiveness in PvE... I am sure a few sin runners will be happy with this, but i don't see a reason to "auch" it. PvP time will still be ye olde nerfed one.--Fighterdoken 18:43, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

WOO HOO for farming, but I thought they were restoring LOD to its original healing --MageMontu 18:52, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

QZ + Shadow Form = hurray ^^ Fox007 19:09, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

30 seconds duration is absurdly awesome. -- Rayd 20:46, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Perma Shadow in PvP finally gets nerfed. --Treasure Boy 22:50, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Quick maths works^^ 30-5=25 25/12=2.083333333 per rank 4x2.08333333=8.33333333 8.33333+30=38 thus at 16 shadow form will last 38 secs and if you take a perfect enchantment mod it will last a total of 46 seconds (OMG) Deathly Paradox + Shadowform at 16 with a perfect enchantment mod Fox007 07:53, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

Is it 0...12 or 0...15? ~~ frvwfr2 (talk · contributions) 13:07, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Noooooooo! I can't shadowform in PvP anymore Q.Q Halogod35 13:33, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Most likely 0..15. -Auron 13:34, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Lol and I was good at it too, oh well back to Shadow Prisoning. xD Halogod35 13:39, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Discord

I fell in love with Discord. It will be much fun to use it with Intensity and Necrosis...--Alphamaslak 18:50, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Talking about PvE only skills: Couldn't these get a PvP version as well? They would need fixed values to be independent from grinding titles, and available to PvP characters in some way of course. —ZerphaThe Improver 19:01, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

URSANGANK No thank you ;P Fox007 19:08, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Hey, that's an excellent idea ! Let's make a few pvp-only Zaishen title track-dependent skills, like "Ursan Pwning" and such... no ? Oh, well. Never mind then... 86.209.227.182 19:29, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm.. know what? Zaishen Rank skills doesn't sound to bad. Mostly since Zaishen is a core title. --Treasure Boy 22:52, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

So... PvP grind is better then PvE grind for getting skills? =) No PvP versions of PvE skills, thank you. 193.10.251.106 09:56, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Alphamaslak, Discord is going to be great fun now that we don't need a fast casting mesmer to get it under 1 sec :3 Byakko 21:37, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Defensive Anthem

Removed Defensive Anthem from "Restoration of April Balance Chances (PvP)" per direction of the developers, because it was already in the section entitled "Restoration of Skill Effectiveness in PvE" --Regina Buenaobra 19:04, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Ether Renewal

Yay! 20 seconds! NOW it's an option to energy management when you use many enchantments...! I'm gonna try some things as soon as the updates are made! Yay!MithTalk 20:13, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that sounds really interesting. poke | talk 20:15, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Even without many enchantments, because Ether Renewal is an enchantment itself it's still decent energy management. For instance, any attunement + renewal will give you 6-8 energy from renewal (at ~12 ES) plus 30% of the cost + 1 back, which would make anything 10 energy or less in cost essentially free, and 15e spells cost next to nothing. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 22:51, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

GLF infinite energy E/Mo monks... --24.179.151.252 22:53, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Emo smiters were fun long time ago Vezz 23:00, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Steelfang Slash

NOOOOOOOOO!! I love the D-slash --> Brawling Headbutt --> Auto-attack --> Steelfang Slash combintaion while under effect of an IAS. *sigh* I guess I'll have to get a new allround PvE-only build for my warrior. Please tell me Steelfang is not going to be nerfed for PvE, I mean, the combo isn't that overused in General PvE. --Treasure Boy 22:48, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

See how it's under the section titled "PVE AND PVP?" Sorry bro. Ezekial Riddle 04:07, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

It's still viable. If you notice, it's getting a recharge time, not an activation time. Just make sure it's recharged before you use your D-slash again. --Thervold 14:29, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Wow, this makes me mad :( I had just thought up and tested a build today that DIDN'T use the Steelfang- Headbutt spam. Completely ruined. AARGGGH!! Couldn't they just do something to Brawling Headbutt and leave this alone?? 66.37.48.229 21:15, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I think they should make it be all your OTHER attack skills are disabled for 1 second. Then it has synergy with Coward still... But On Your Knees! could be used I guess... ~~ frvwfr2 (talk · contributions) 02:55, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Wow fail. This does nto affect PvE, so Brawling headbutt has got nothing to do with it. If any of you had low-level PvP'ed at all in the last month, you would have come across the real reason this skill was nerfed. It was a combo using FGJ -> Steelfang -> Earth Shaker -> Steelfang -> Earth Shaker etc. Weapon swapping (OMG HOW DID THEY DO IT??!!!! No.) was used. Next time, read the headings. PvP rebalancing. Brawling Headbutt = PvE. Good Fucking Game. 86.136.14.165 11:10, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

It does affect PvE(only barely, of course), but you are right that it almost certainly was not because of it. And to anyone complaining about the nerf of use with headbutt, FGJ>D-Slash>BH>attack>D-Slash, etc. If any group of anything that you can knock down isn't dead in 20 seconds in PvE, you need more damage. Or you can go /P to get 30 seconds of spamming. And it has been abused with Backbreaker for months, it's just become noticable because people learned how to weapon swap. 69.40.253.203 20:06, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

"Watch Yourself!"

I guess it's kinda good that they up'd from 3 attacks to 10 but still... for pve use just get rid of the, "ends after X attacks."

They aren't going to change skill mechanics between the 2, it would be too annoying. Just tweaking stats is probably as good are you're gonna get. 76.186.15.83 20:16, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

PvE/PvP Skill Separation on the Wiki?

How are people planning on doing that? I think that using the same page with two different sub sections would work well. ~ | Pae - Talk | 02:42, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

It's being discussed here -- Wynthyst 02:47, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Ursan Blessing

hmm? 218.214.126.215 05:46, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it should had been buffed. -- Rayd 10:39, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Jup needs a self heal and a rez Fox007 10:55, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

And maybe raise the dmg and make it armor ignoring. It would be a nice idea to add dmg reduction while under the blessing as well :P --MageMontu 11:12, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

It is armor ignoring except ursan rage :P Fox007 11:55, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

rly? Well that shows how much i make use of it :P --MageMontu 12:17, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

And deep wound. -Auron 12:19, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

AND BLEEDING. -- Rayd 13:43, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

One shot one kill skills Fox007 13:50, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Could've sworn this was the update they were supposed to nerf Ursan on. This is a skill way too overpowered for PvE. It takes people away from building an actual character and leads them into "crutch-using". It severely unbalances game play. They needto rebalance and nerf this skill. It has gotten way out of hand. I mean these same programmers [from BNet that came to ANet] are the ones that nerfed everything and overpowered Pallys there and added overpowered runewords there too. And, we all know how badly that has turned out. Do we need the same mistakes here too? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:75.178.84.147 (talk).

Monsters

Do the Monster use the pvp or pve version of the skills? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.168.97.227 (talk • contribs) at 08:09, 22 May 2008 (UTC).

Good question actually, though i strongly suppose they use PvE versions as well. —ZerphaThe Improver 08:30, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

uh-oh, afllicted assassins use Shadow Form >_> 86.95.231.197 16:38, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

And they'll most likely be killed in the same way as before: waiting until Shadow Form wears off and then Smacking them down since they'll have next to no health. --Goteki-45 18:18, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

they activate it only if their health is like 50, and then you gotta wait like 25 secs before you can kill them. QQ 86.95.231.197 20:28, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

or they use something to speed up recharge of shade form, heal themselves, and use it again.--142.22.186.7 22:03, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Mistake

Separating PvE/PvP skills is still a huge mistake. --136.142.214.19 13:13, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Care to delve into this a bit deeper? Ezekial Riddle 13:51, 22 May 2008 (UTC) Forgot to login

Yeah care to explain? Halogod35 13:54, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

It is the best solution to solve all the problems caused by skill imbalance. Good job ANet!--79.118.254.2 16:49, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

It's a mistake because those who play both PvP and PvE will need to create different builds for both kinds of gameplay, and will need to switch back and forth between the two styles (for instance, monking) and that will make it more difficult for those who play both. Also, why should PvP and PvE be soooooooooo different that you need to totally change the skill sets? If the skills work in PvP then they should work just as well in PvE.64.180.177.249 18:19, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

That has already been the case in some ways, though it is part of the problem with the change as well. If you notice, build pages categorize builds between PvP and PvE because there already was a difference in effectiveness between the two that wound up creating the need for different builds. They normally did want to have as small of a gap between PvP and PvE as possible, so that people could play both sides of the game equally. Changing some skills between the two versions does add an extra hurdle for people who think about going from one to the other, since now not only do you need different builds for PvE and PvP, but the skills function differently to boot. It also winds up making skill balance changes more confusing to people who do not pay attention to which side the skill balancing affects. However, it seems like the majority of players primarily only play either PvE or PvP anyways. I personally also think it is a good idea for GW1, since the two halves of the game are often so diametrically opposed when it comes to skill balancing. It will be interesting to see what this decision now means for the development of GW2, whether it will be implemented in some form or whether the game's skill system will make it obsolete. --Goteki-45 18:35, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

(EC) PvE and PvP are very different. Some things which work in PvP won't work nearly as well in PvE, and same goes for things working in PvE but not nearly as well in PvP. For example, see the Shadow Form changes. In PvE it's good for tanking/solo farming, in PvP it's just very annoying, and if using perma-shadow, it can easily ruin a RA/TA team. LoD was ridiculously overpowered in PvP, because it works so well against pressure. In PvE, it isn't, party-wide healing might be strong, but not overpowered. If Incoming is chained by several Paragons, in PvP, it will ruin any spike, and decrease pressure by ridiculous amounts. In PvE, it will be good to counter the huge amounts of damage some enemies can do, but is still clearly inferior to an Imbagon, so it needs a buff to make it at least an usable variant for heroes. This is the way skills are going to be changed. It's to balance overpowered skills in PvP, while not destroying the PvE part of the game. About the switching between PvE and PvP, only the numbers will be changed. --Sir Bertrand 18:41, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

"only the numbers will be changed." these skills are based 100% on their numbers; don't make it sound like an understatement.64.180.167.135 16:48, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

(Reset Indent) God forbid you have to change play styles when going from PvP to PvE. Honestly, if you weren't doing that already, you probably aren't really all that great at PvP. Stick to PvE. (I had to redo this 2x because people keep writing walls of text, geez...) LordSojar 18:43, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree to this being a mistake, just because it will make PvE so god damn easy >_<

Because Imbagons and Ursan made it hard, amirite? 71.31.157.150 21:33, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

It is definitely a mistake to separate the skills. I use a character for both. All I do is change a skill set sometimes. Why should I have to waste a whole charatcer slot just to play PvP? They want me to spend that extra $9.99 for a new character slot that badly???? Leave it alone just change the programming so the skill operate differently in PvE than in PvP.

Ummmm... to the anon above. that's what they did. GG, learn to read. 86.136.14.165 11:15, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Fevered Dreams Change...

Doesnt help it at all. It needs a shorter cast or cost. The recharge being decreased by all of TWO seconds means nothing. ~~ frvwfr2 (talk · contributions) 13:27, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Rit Lord

"What rit build did we nerf the most?"

"The rit lord."

*un-nerfs that one skill*

"Wait, how did we kill the build? ... Oh well, it's still a buff for them."

--24.179.151.252 14:07, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

The Rit Lord build (aka Spirit Spammer) in PvE was hit very hard by the nerf to Ritual Lord. In its new buffed state, it has the chance to bring back a spirit spamming rit into PvE. However, I believe that the spirits need an energy reduction in PvE, and they need a massive level boost (so they have more HP and Armor). I would say make all level 8 spirits level 17 and all level 9-10 spirits level 19-20. The HM monsters, being level 30 with 7 gazillion pts in their given attributes, can one shot low level spirits. So really, the rit lord build just got a nice boost, but the spirits need to be adjusted for PvE to make them viable in HM and not cookies for the HM monsters to eat. LordSojar 18:43, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

The Ritual Lord change wasn't drastic enough to be the thing that hit them very hard. The major hits to the build came from Boon of Creation's nerf, spirit casting costs shooting upwards, and spirit lifetimes being reduced and damage done to the spirit by itself increased. I doubt you're going to see people running many builds with Ritual Lord as the elite (and especially not original rit lord builds) with just the change to this one skill. --Goteki-45 19:11, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Boon of Creation will need a serious PvE buff to make PvE Ritlords viable again. 5..15 energy on return would be enough with the new higher costs of Shelter and other spirits. --Skye Marin 09:52, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Or, you can be manly and take prot spirit. Rit lord isn't that great. Unexist 18:33, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

I think that's his entire point? -Auron 11:15, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I can still run a decent Spirit Spamming build. Thing that hurt it the most, was the 'allow spirits to burn' idea. Makes it a lot more frustrating. It was funny though, I'd heard mursaat would 'pwn' me, before I had infused armor. Then I went in and soloed them as a spammer(without infusion) piece of cake btw. But ya, pve spirits themselves could use a tad bit of a boost. maybe take the cost of vampirism down to 5, that sort of thing.--Kyle van der Meer 13:15, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

We're talking defensive. Rit lords have (traditionally) always been fully support, with spirits like Shelter, Union, Displacement, Recovery, Recuperation, etc, which all originally had energy costs of 5 or 10 (back on factions release). After a few months of play, shelter/recup were knocked up to 25e, and the rest to 15e. Spirit health was reduced, and the damage taken when each effect happens was increased, so the average life of a Shelter went from about 5 seconds to about .5 seconds.

Also originally, spamming the spirits wasn't a huge problem. Boon of Creation gave back enough energy to support constant spiritspam, and Rit Lord recharged them generally quick enough to spam. However, all of those facets were nerfed/balanced, and so a traditional spirit spam rit lord is simply a terrible build. Since the split, all of those facets should be looked at again, to make a defensive rit spiritspammer viable in PvE.

Vampirism lasts forever. 10 energy isn't too much for a spirit that has a lifespan longer than most sins and heals you. If you want a full offense build, just pain/bloodsong/vamp/shadowsong/summon spirits. It's still really bad compared to, say, a warrior, but it's the best a rit can do. -Auron 14:38, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Storm Djinn's Haste/Flame Djinn's Haste

Please revert the nerf for PvE --Macros 19:15, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

And PvP ;) 71.31.157.150 21:30, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't matter for PvE, as nobudy uses them there. Unexist 18:34, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Uh, I do. --Macros 04:43, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

When?

i know the update is supposed to be on may 22, but when? its about 5 pm CST at the moment. Takeyourpills55 22:07, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Implemented right as you are in the process of asking~ --24.179.151.252 22:13, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Power Shot

The thing that gets me is Power Shot... This skill is now obsoleite... Sundering/Penetrating Attacks are now 10/1/4 deal +22 and 10% Sundering... Power Shot is 10/1/6 and only deals +18... I think Power Shot needs a change... SabreWolf 02:44, 23 May 2008 (UTC) I have to agree. Watch the patterns and see the nerfing of most and overpowering of certian. It's a pattern repeated before elsewhere.

EPIC

update