ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Assassin/Critical Defenses

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Ryudo's Discussion

• waits for haters.--Ryudo 18:15, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

SMILE First off Assassins frontline more than Elementalists amirite? I think 50% blocking would be fair enough since it can be easily re-applied but moving it to Shadow Arts kinda sucks as your arguement stands that Critical Strikes is an offensive attribute, other skills would have to be moved too.

1. VETO Veto the Nerf!!!!!!!!! -- Ninja Dragon 18:50, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

umm kite until it wears off? ench removal? this is fine,, leave it User 24.141.45.72 18:57, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't wear off, though, because conveniently enough assassins can jump around the entire battlefield at will. Ninja, stop it with the inane comments. As for my opinion, I think this is a good idea (I actually advocate reducing all block chances in the game to 25% once we deal with all the overpowered offense). I hate running into this if I don't have Rending Touch, which is also overpowered. -- Armond Warblade 19:39, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

When comparing skills, it really needs to be a comparison of the skill, relative to the attribute, relative to the class, relative to the game. Not relative to another class' skill. Magnetic Aura and Swirling Aura are underpowered crap skills but don't get buffed because it's not what eles are supposed to do. Zealous 01:12, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Just making a point that a skill in a defense line is crap compared to a skill in the offense line. And earth eles are ::supposed to be good at defense. (notice I use the word "supposed")--Ryudo 01:23, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

And Also If you nerf this skill you will nerf sins in PvE completely you will screw over the sin because w/o this skill being 75% block and whatever you want to nerf it to, sins can't play well in PvE period. Also Why nerf it all you have to do to kill them when they have this skill on is block their attack that's all you have to do then it goes away and you can kill them. And seriously If you nerf this skill you will kill the casual PvE Assassin. Just keep that in mind. The reason why I'm defending the Assassin so Much is because The Assassin is my favorite Profession. And w/o the sin I would probably quit playing guild wars because IMO sin is the only profession where you can tank, kill, teleport, and get killed a lot and still come back for more it is a VERY, Very fun profession to play.-- Ninja Dragon 06:56, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

HEY. PAY ATTENTION.

GUILD WARS HAS ALWAYS BEEN AND WILL ALWAYS BE BALANCED AROUND HIGH-END PVP, SPECIFICALLY HEROES' ASCENT AND GVG. THAT IS BECAUSE THESE ARE THE ABSOLUTE HIGHEST LEVELS OF PLAY IN THE ENTIRE SODDING GAME, AND ANY SKILL IMBALANCE WILL BE USED LIKE A DRUNK GIRL IN A FRAT HOUSE.

That said, I doubt this skill will be nerfed. But if you want to protest a suggestion, ZOMG PVE QQQQQ isn't an acceptable way to do it because PvE doesn't matter. Capice? --71.229.204.25 07:03, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

I seem to remember that it's good to voice your opinions even if some idiots think that they are bad in this case I have a saying "Opinions are like buttholes, Everyone has one, And they all stink" So IDC what you think -- Ninja Dragon 07:16, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent)

Lol @ drunk girl in a frat house...too true. (sadly)--Ryudo 07:25, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Interesting argument 71.229.204.25, but correct if I'm wrong, but I don't think Critical Defences is a particular problem in GvG or HA where you should be in a more coordinated team that includes enchantment removal or some other easy way of countering this (blockweb, interrupts, etc). Perhaps you should shout randomly "GUILD WARS HAS ALWAYS BEEN AND WILL ALWAYS BE BALANCED AROUND HIGH-END PVP" less often when the discussion at hand likely has little to nothing to do with high end pvp. This particular skill is probably mostly a problem in AB and RA. In view of that I would totally sign for 50% block rate. This should not ruin PvE totally and would help to balance RA and AB, where this skill can cause problems. Less hate and incoherent shouting, more discussion please. 141.14.151.178 07:58, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Kite for 9 seconds, go back and assrape them. Or, remove the enchantment. — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 17:23, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

The wamo on your team refuses to kite from him though. This skill is unbelievably frustrating in RA. That said, it probably doesn't really need a nerf. I certainly wouldn't complain if it was though. Pluto 18:58, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Then reporting him for botting kekeke — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 19:07, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

It's amazing how useless good skills become against bad players, and how powerful normally ok skills become against players that don't take the obvious steps to counter them. -- Armond Warblade 21:45, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

This skill is perfectly fine. If you run around the sin then he can't hit and it will run out. Then he is open for killing. Snare him if you need to.--The Gates Assassin 05:10, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, run around for 9 seconds isn't hard, (sarcasm)unless your a mesmer/necro/rit/x profession without speed boost, and also hope hes not carrying dark prison/shadow prison(/sarcasm). Basic enchant removal kills it and also if you cripple the assassin.Prokiller88 03:36, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Shadow Prisons don't carry Critical Defenses. Critical Defenses is in Moebius/Shattering Assault/Fox's Promise builds. They only snare they might carry is siphon speed. Remove it and snare him, its not that hard.--The Gates Assassin 05:11, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

If your team is too stupid to kite/snare the sin, you've got a bad team and you're bound to lose. Just accept it and don't QQ about RA. If you have a bad team, you lose. It doesn't matter if the enemy is some scrub running Crit Defenses or a pro running a Shock Axe. --TimeToGetIntense 13:33, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

I use this in PvE. It runs out all the damn time. I shouldn't have to suffer because a few PvP players are a bit better at it than I.- Vanguard 12:21, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually, it's probably easiest to maintain in PvE along with crit agility. I haven't really extensively tested this skill in PvP though. I have found it mostly runs out when I run out of monsters to kill (ran through GWEN as a scythe sin.)PlacidBlueAlien 06:35, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

This skill is fine as it is, I don't see why Ryudo is crying about it. This skill is vital for tons of farming builds, and also it ends so easily. Just kite your target and it will wear out. 201.174.202.194 01:29, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

If this is nerfed, it will destroy the only practical defense that sins have in PvE. Please don't screw us over there, no one wants us around already- this'll just finish us off. --Kalas Silvern 08:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

assassins should be buffed,not nerfed anyway the problem doesnt lie with this skill the problem is that magnetic aura sucks.

Crit defense with crit eye and agility makes a deadly combo. too bad agility is a pve only skill :(, but there ways to get around that in pvp. anyways with the sin being a softer target then a warrior, what wrong with him/her being able to go toe to toe with one? Metal Sazz 11:02, 21 march 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to have to speak against this. Sure, its broken in RA, but we got other problems to fix. This is, by far, an okay skill. NUKLEAR IIV 18:24, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

i don't see a problem with WOD ( "oh look i don't have a hex removal, i guess im useless for the next 4 secs"{/sarcasm}) of course im just going by what the skills said and haven't seen the lovely comment on this yet............oh well. anyways why speak against it(CD), last time i check it was enhant(easily removable)and blocking doesn't protect to aganist an ele, plus warrior have skill that will punish blocks as well, and there are way to prevent Critical hits, and hits all together. so really i don't see a problem with this if the person on the other end was smart enough to know what to do. Metal sazz 11:27, april 22, 2008 (UTC)

"i don't see a problem with WOD ( "oh look i don't have a hex removal, i guess im useless for the next 4 secs"{/sarcasm})" We've explained before why that suggestion doesn't work, metal sazz. I'm going to read this "of course im just going by what the skills said and haven't seen the lovely comment on this yet" and assume you ahve no idea what the issue is, and I won't tell you to stop assuming everyone is an idiot. See, I didn't say that. NUKLEAR IIV 15:40, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

assume you ahve no idea what the issue is Nope completely clueless on it :D, nor do i care about it, thats not skill this topics about. metal sazz 4:35 april 23 2008 (UTC)

You opened the door. I just walked rıght on through. Please don't make ill-informed comments, esp. when they don't belong to the issue at hand. NUKLEAR IIV 22:42, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Also most people seem to miss the fact that with a base energy pool of 25 points 1 use of this skill takes up about half of an assassins energy, to which he must respond with an early lotus attack (also high energygy cost thus killing the idea of using almost any SS) or sit around andauto attack the target for a while to build up energy with crit strike bonus and wait for an enchant removal. really the nerfs to the lotus skills have had enough of an adverse effect on this skill already, but if it must be nerfed it requires a bit of a give and take. lower the blocking % to 10...51..65% lower casting time to 1/4 sec and lower the energy cost, then it will still be a useable skill, but not have such a tank effect on assassins. In all honesty though it is pretty balanced as is. Kraken 01:55, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

anyways back to the topic at hand, you still haven't giving a good enough reason to nerf this skill, they are alright too many counter to this skill that any nerf would make it useless, and i hate seeing nerf to useleness, it just tell me that you are only aloud to play with certain skills. --Metal Sazz 03:13, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

If critical defenses got lowered to a 1/4 cast and 15...65% blocking it would be more of a buff. Maintainable non elite blocks should not be uninterruptable.--The Gates Assassin 18:23, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Assassins need this skill to kill and still have a chance to live in PvE, i think this skill should be made to a PvE/PvP skill, cause i can see if you use it in PvP it's way too much defense.. ~~Pup Pup talk 09:18, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Needs a big duration buff for PvE version. 206.248.183.235 21:22, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Too easy to tank off one skill.

I say 66% block cap plox. =< Phill Gaston 00:26, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Gamewide 25% block cap please. -- Armond Warblade 12:43, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Wtf? You can't be serious about that. Most blocking skills have a 1 second cast time so they are easy to interrupt, if not, they are elite. Stances? They either last a really short amount of time, or can't target others, or have RIDICULOUS recharges. Blocking is NOT a problem in Guild Wars, it's that some skills give it away too easily.--The Gates Assassin 16:30, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Not only that, but 25% cap is pointless. Every skill in the game violates it. And Armond, before block is nerfed, deal with the imba melee damage we have, mkay? -- NUKLEAR IIV 01:58, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Simple solution. 1)Nerf melee damage especially scythes. 2)remove assassins from the game for being complete fanservice and causing uber balancing trouble.

Removing assassins from the game would be the worst idea Anet could do. Don't even get into game design. Too many people including myself love them. Nerfing a few scythe attacks wouldn't be a bad idea tho.--The Gates Assassin 04:03, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

I think this needs a PvE split.

Critical defenses is not overpowered. Its true that it offers good defense, but it adds itself back on top of the enchantment stack every time it is refreshed which makes it highly vulnerable to enchantment removal skills. The only time this skill is broken is in Random Arenas, which really shouldn't be considered for balance changes due to its nature. Master Ketsu 07:48, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. Even low-level RA should be balanced when at all possible. Especially when doing so doesn't hurt higher-level pvp. Pluto 05:55, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

71.174.21.250's discussion

→ moved from ArenaNet:Skill feedback/Assassin/Critical Defenses

It's called tactics. Run around and the sin can't hit you, thus can't get criticals. If you can't do that, kill everything else, then kill the sin with everyone on it. Eventually the sin will run out if you run around/block him/get lucky/strip him/he gives up. It's not overpowered and it's kind of sad that you think it is. Also if you're build doesn't have enough utility to beat something as easy as critical def, then you should probably fix your build. Practically every good build I know has some way to beat it whether it be IMS, antimelee, enchantment removal, blocking, knockdowns, interrupts, removal of all attributes, or simply things that get around blocking. It's not hard, play better.--The Gates Assassin 01:05, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Easier said than done when you cant cripple them without using your elite(Crippling Shot) and they bring Dash. Most non-spellcasters don't have enchant removal. 1 second cast is hard to interrupt. Find me a ranger skill that removes enchantments.

Right, because there's a better elite than cripshot to bring. Also, 1s cast is a damn easy interrupt. Also, bring rend touch/rend enchants on melee. Also, why do rangers need to worry about this at all? -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 15:23, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah rangers should be interrupting the casters, not trying to poison through 75% blocking. Also: Magebane Shot--The Gates Assassin 23:54, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Make the change big: make assasins have -20 armour against physical damage, AND shorten it's duration/ make it a stance? I've won 1v4 on RA far too many times with my assasin using this and DB spamming 91.190.66.154 16:13, 2 November 2008 (UTC) (Xaero)

That's because they were terrible. If they have no way to shut you down then they should lose. A simple interrupt, kiting with or without IMS, antimelee, blocking all can stop you. If their team doesn't have ONE of those, that's pretty bad. Not to mention, it only stops melee, so any non attack skill is going to hurt you. This--The Gates Assassin 21:06, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Because RA/CM teams choose to suck, amirite? Counters based on pure chance (Category: Build Wars) suck. Really, the broken part to it is it refreshes itself so well, I'd think that increasing duration while dropping the refreshing clause could help, or have the refreshing clause only add 1...2...2 seconds rather than refresh the whole thing.--Riddle 21:46, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Just run around. And yes, if you can't find at least one of those things in your build, it probably is pretty bad. Remember it doesn't refresh on HIT it's CRITICAL hit which they only have a 30-40% chance to get. --The Gates Assassin 01:47, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

When using this skill by itself does your counter work effectively. However, no one uses this skill by itself. Usually, there is a speed buff or shadowstep, so "running around" doesn't work all the time. Not to mention the skills that increase the chance for a critical or guarantee a critical. --Riddle 02:00, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Shadow steps have after cast. Even if the sin has an IMS, if you spread out, he can even kill one of your guys, as long as you aren't near enough for him to hit you, it will run out. I don't think I've seen anyone use guaranteed critical hit skills for builds that in it. Not in any good builds anyway. Even when you increase the chance to critical, it's still only about 40-50% chance, so even then you can beat it. Explain why I've never seen a sin 4v1 or hell even 2v1 one of my teams in RA? I've even beaten sins with this 1v1 in RA. It's really not that hard. --The Gates Assassin 02:14, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't care for your résumé or for the fact that you can kill the person using this. With that logic, everything is balanced. --Riddle 02:47, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Fine

This skill is fine just the way it is. Jonathan 00:45, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

It's counterable by kiting.. Necros bring enchantment removal, Mesmers do too... If it gets extended per crit then stuff like critbarrage wouldn't be fresh, and could be used to recharge it for an eternity and then run droks or wtf :DD --Chaos Messenger 16:27, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

GL kiting palm strike on a 2 sec recharge with its duration of N approaching infinity. Pluto 12:38, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

WTB Return. WTB anti-melee. WTB monk.. Any of them work. --Chaos Messenger 12:44, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

In random arenas?

Yes? /A, Way of the Fox with 8 points in Shadow or so and you're unstoppable. ---Chaos- 07:44, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Make it a stance

See the corresponding suggestion before commenting or you may make yourself look like an idiot.

sin with no IAS is almost always bad, sin with no IMS has no utility and is easily kited, and Critdef is not even OP. Target swapping and kiting is the best solution. You wipe the rest of the team then kill off the blockwhore annoying blocker. ---Chaos- 12:17, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

You fail completely at balancing. This does not destroy the skill and could even be considered a buff in some ways as it can't be interrupted. Anyone who says this is not overpowered either uses this skill 24/7 or is bad at the game.

I never play sin and I made some completely viable arguments to why it should not be a stance. No u. ---Chaos- 14:55, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

This being a stance would be pretty bad. It'd be more of a nerfbat strike than tweaking the duration, energy, cast or recharge. Bathory talk 00:30, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Kite? Show us a pro-kiting vs a PS sin. --140.128.67.248 03:39, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

It sounds more like you have a problem with Palm Strike rather than this skill. Changing this to a stance cancels out the use of IMS, IAS, and (I suppose if they had them) defensive stances. If you're trying to kite someone while you're crippled and you have no brought condition removal, Shield Bash, a defensive stance, a snare, Return or anything else that assists kiting - STOP. You're just letting them crit against you more. This is probably why you think this is so OP and no one else does. Because you're limping away and giving them free crits. Bathory talk 19:47, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah right, a renewal 10 seconds blocking on a tiny cirt is not OP, lol. Maybe you just like this skill and defense so MUCH for it.--140.128.67.248 03:50, 18 June 2009 (UTC)