Feedback talk:Game updates/20120517

Wow, thanks for just giving the game away.... 64.179.188.62 01:55, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I hope this doesn't affect Zkey prices. I don't think it will, this update is probably to help make AB's relevant again. I hope it works-- anguard 01:57, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

PvE ranks

I'm hearing from several guildies that the ranks for maximum effectiveness are as low as 5.

5 and 6 seem to be the norms, but it depends on the skill. I think ANet lost their dictionary, this doesn't scream "balance" to me. EtariP sdrawkcaB ehT 02:08, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

So is everything stuck at max even if you rank up the supposed effectiveness cap? Stabby 02:19, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I can confirm that EoTN skills are maximized at rank 5. It may be lower than R8 for Lux and Kurz, but I can't tell that. 69.183.223.75 02:26, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I have r7 Lux and Triple shot is maxed. It's probably 6, since that's the halfway point. 24.243.2.117 02:32, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I think it is R7 for max with the Kurz/Lux skills because I just went from R6 to R7 in AB now but I'm pretty sure I checked before and I could swear my Save Yourselves! was still 5 seconds long but it's 6 seconds now. 82.11.226.30 09:11, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Not all of them max at R5. At R5 my EVAS produces a level 18 assassin. EtariP sdrawkcaB ehT 02:49, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Rank 5 vanguard shows maximum values for Ebon Escape, Winds, Honor and EVAS for me. There are a lot of incorrect values on the skill pages, and looking at what information I have, 18 would be rank 3. Are you sure you are correct? 69.183.223.75 16:08, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I cannot find a single example amongst my characters where a skill is not maximized at rank 5. Admittedly my search is not exhaustive, but I have included things like dwarven stability, ebon escape, and other skills that have many breakpoints. 69.183.223.75 16:24, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Woops! You're right, the character I was thinking of actually IS r3. My mistake. EtariP sdrawkcaB ehT 21:22, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I have r5 kurz and save yourselves is now the full 6 seconds.. don't know why they changed all this, if you worked for it you could've gotten the max reward.. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 178.117.36.1 (talk).

Are you certain it is rank five Kurzick? --Silver Edge 07:06, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

To address the issue I raised years ago; grind should never be rewarded in Guild Wars, a game fully designed around skill being more important. You end up finishing the Nightfall campaign around rank 6 sunspear and 2/3 lightbringer, so it makes sense that they reach maximum "strength" at those levels (which probably means they need to tweak LB a bit more). Further silly titlegrind should not be rewarded with skill strength, only higher ranks in titles. -Auron 23:03, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Sunspear Rebirth Signet still does the "10% per rank" thing. – NuclearDuckie 04:34, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

While it's probably an oversight, at least Sunspear is probably the easiest and fastest faction title to max out anyway, so it's not too large a concern, especially seems your acceptance into a team it's highly unlikely to depend on the effectiveness of your Sunspear Rebirth Signet. Still probably worth reporting over on the official support forums though. 82.11.226.30 11:36, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

max title ranks needed are halved. trytophan signet's max is rank 5. the bug is that previous titles and in-game listing for rankups are bugged to show old ranks but skills themselves show properly. 166.164.74.249 13:25, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

The titles and the points needed for each rank weren't changed in the update, the effectiveness (green numbers) of the title skills were changed, so it's not a bug. --Silver Edge 17:35, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Remaining research

I've updated Template:Skill progression max10 (which is used on the pages of Sunspear and Eye of the North title skills) and Template:Skill progression max12 (which is used on the pages of Kurzick/Luxon skills) based on the in-game observations of my own characters and of those that are posted above and on the talk pages of some of the skills. The only ranks that still need to be updated in those templates are:

• EoTN title skill rank 0 (I don't remember, but could you use an EoTN title skill with rank 0 in the related title?)
• Sunspear and EoTN title skill ranks 1 and 2
• Kurzick/Luxon skill ranks 2, 4, 5, and 6

Feel free to strike out the above ranks once it has been updated in the corresponding template. --Silver Edge 07:06, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Hallo, I just reached Luxon r4, so some updates for the pve skills I've unlocked:

• Save Yourselves lasts 5 seconds;
• Triple Shot does 30% less dmg;
• Signet of Corruption 27 dmg, max energy gain 17;
• Elemental Lord lasts 53 seconds, and healed for 233% of spell cost;
• Summon Spirits gives 87 health gain;

Apologies, I can't fathom how to update the progression12 template! --BramStoker (talk, contribs) 13:37, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

I've updated the template. Thanks. --Silver Edge 04:58, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Also, the adrenaline and energy gain at Lightbringer rank 4 on the Lightbringer Signet page still needs to be updated. --Silver Edge 04:45, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

The Lightbringer Signet page has now been fully updated. --Silver Edge 05:25, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

War Supplies

They can't be turned in as a sweet, even though they give you sweet points.

Green Rock Candies won't work either. What does so far? 87.66.61.155 02:36, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Pretty much only Candy Canes. 24.243.2.117 02:36, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Weird, just went talking to him with 10 in my inventory, and Kazuma just kept talking over and over, no trade window... 87.66.61.155 02:38, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) Honeycomb and pumpkin cookies work. Red/Blue rock candies don't work, in addition to the green mentioned previously. -- FreedomBound 02:39, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

So we might assert he'll only take non spammable sweets? 87.66.61.155 02:40, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

The change seems to be just for non-spammable ones, and that's the ones that give morale or remove DP, since they stop working if you don't have DP or have maxed morale bonuses. They could made one that exchanges tonics for fireworks too, now that we are at it. MithTalk 15:44, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Someone must have been watching me park at a res shrine to "spam" my candy canes for the sweet points. Looks like it is just setup for those who want to spam sweets but can't due to the type. I'm pleased with this one, even though I already parked at the res shrine for like 45 minutes getting rid of 300 peppermints.--Kniblet Beast 00:58, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Did the same with spam bip + 3 heroes with UA. About an hour to get max sweet tooth. Was cheap though compared to spam sweets.178.208.110.45 05:51, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

TY anet for AvA update!

Ty arenanet for increasing faction gain! Ava used to be full of people 2 years ago. There were nobody since JQ faction score update. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.251.149.61 (talk • contribs) at 05:12, 18 May 2012 (UTC).

JQ rewards well these days and its now full of bots. Looks like ANet is hoping to fill AB with bots too. -- Kirbman 05:50, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

2 years ago? It's been dead for the past 4 years :/ --Riddle 05:36, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Balance?

I've advocated a lot of ANet's recent changes when others put them down, but this everything about this update reeks of ill-decisions. -- Kirbman 05:45, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

The PvE skill change was a long time coming, honestly. It was the one big "time > skill" thing still in the game, even though they rebalanced the titles a few years ago. Now you can literally get maximum effectiveness on the EotN PvE skills by just beating EotN, and that's just fine with me. K/L is still a little grindy, but it's a heck of a lot better now. As for AB faction gain, people have been asking for AB to give more faction than JQ and FA for a while now, and they seem to have listened (but done it in a way that only really gives you faction if your team isn't terrible, which is fine). Skyy High 06:09, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I agree, the PvE skill rank reduction was very much needed, in the spirit of removing as much mandatory grind from the game as possible. As for the other changes, I don't really care about those. I guess the sweets spammification update is nice, but the requirement of having to have either 5, 25, or 50 items in a bunch in order to trade them in makes it rather meh. 78.92.5.221 09:31, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Good ideas, Arenanet execution

First off I am against pve skills rewarding rank, so this update had something good in it. Also AB was dead, and pretty much the only way for less than 8 players (3-4) to play together is to sync in RA, JQ and FA. JQ and FA are pve areas since it is proven that killing NPC-s is easier than killing players, and NPC-s take longer to return to battle(or die permamently). NPC-s are stronger in damage, but are usually fragile.

This and the grind-rewarding PvE-only skills had to change.

First off JQ and FA reward way too much. Since the dishonor system is not functional, and worse it gives dishonor for those who report leechers and bots, AND the game rewards those who lose still a lot, the CM formats are full of bots using default monk skillbars and spamming heals. Yeah that's the pvp game folks. To change that you don't reward them more, but reward them less. This shouldn't be hard to figure out.

Now what you have done is exactly what you shouldn't have done in this case: Rewarding those who lose more is not going to help. Increasing the faction per kill is not going to help. Increasing the faction per Victory and ONLY VICTORY is what you should have done, and also you should have reduced the rewards for those CM formats to punish losing more.

Then there are the title skills. Okay, I admit, you don't have to grind 6000+ foes to get the max effectivenes out of those skills, but grinding 1000+ is still grinding you idiots, and it is directly against the premise of guild wars, a game of skill. Worse yet it is going to be the next half year's lameass excuse when anyone brings up grind being a problem.

What you should have done instead is to give those skills a fixed effectiveness independent of rank (and slot them into no attribute) first, THEN reduce the grind meaningfully, like by four fifths, so that it matches up with the SS much better (you max out SS normal mode in vabbi).

And the sweets NPC needs to be able to freely convert between the same copies of sweets and DP-removals because inventory space is scarce. Affecting candy canes only is piss-poor execution, and given the live team's capacity we won't get this revisited ever.

This was a great game once you know, and it still could be if Anet didn't make such incompetent changes. --Boro 07:32, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Dude you still give so much fuck. It's Guild Wars, just go with the flow xD - Wuhy 09:31, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Man this change is making life easier, many people did buy cheap items with dp removal to farm their titles, now they dont have to die 10000 times to get a title, stop thinking just about yourself !--Braxis 10:40, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

If you reward only the winner, you'll get people focused too much on winning, and bitching about it, being too picky when making teams, and making the game "feel like a job" for the rest of the players. If you reward everyone, and more the winners, you get more people that play to at least get something or just for fun without worrying too much about 'perfection', and that still want to win to get more. This makes the arena slightly more 'casual', but in GW, the only arenas that should not be that casual at all are the ones with no random factors in matchmaking, like GvG and Codex. Rewarding more kills is also a great idea, since it promotes aggressive gameplay. There's no 'assists' in GW, so people that would usually go healer who want to take advantage of those extra points might try to go offensive instead, speeding up the pace of the game in the process. MithTalk 15:57, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

You either missed or forgot about FA and JQ after the first major nerf to rewards there, as it had no impact on botting, but hastened the death of both formats. Any reward that can be obtained with no effort is infinitely better than no reward, so bots will persist in the absence of more rewarding options. In fairness, after a while, both formats simply died. The dwindling player base dramatically increased wait times, which drove away the remaining players - and possibly bots going for better rewards elsewhere. Eventually, the matches wouldn't fire at all, and there weren't even bots left. MA Anathe 18:19, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Lol?

How easy can you make a game? I remember me spending a crapload of time maxing skills to get its max duration, and now you need like maybe a fourth from that? They should better work on a proper endgame instead of ruining the game in its last month(s?). Spammable alcohol, dropping high-end minis out 7th year bday presents, making a 7th year event that basically drops like everything and now this.. Seriously, I play this game for over 4 years, I spend a lot of time to achieve things, that are just nothing now. How ridiculous can you make a game. GG ,- Konschu 13:58, May 18, 2012 (UTC)

I kinda understand your disappointment. We already got special double point weekends for those PVE titles which allows players with any dedication to easily max the required titles playing through designated weekends without feeling a constant grind all year round. Yet other certain PVE titles (Treasure hunter, Z-rank, wisdom, to name a few) remain as elusive as ever without another decade or so of grind (while the sequel is just around the corner!!). Now title acquirement has become even more imba when the majority of veterens would rather have a complete set of max titles before migrating to GW2.

Personally I have maxed multiple EOTN titles on multiple characters (1 GWAMM and at least 20x EOTN titles maxed across different characters) and I welcome this update with open arms. Having to grind all the way to rank 10 was never in line with what guild wars was all about in the first place. Now I can finally play my remaining characters effectively without having to worry about maxing titles just so I can fit certain roles in speed clears. I quit GW a couple of months back but this update almost makes me want to come back, properly try the few remaining classes in the game. 84.48.54.253 02:04, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Also forget 7th yr minis. These don't mean jack all when calculating HoM pts as veterens have already gotten the minimum requirements for max pts(1 of each purple, gold and green, regardless of actual 'rarity'; mini Kanaxai or mini Yakkington? its all the same there). Personally what I'd really want is a point boaster to help me max the titles I need before GW2. There is nothing wrong with this update but it just further highlights areas that are ignored and wanting despite the game reaching its end (for most active players). Paragon update anyone? -Wrei(apologies for ranting)110.175.241.56 15:03, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Now you just have to max them in one character to have the monument, and the other characters can just go with normal gameplay, as it should always have been. Can't you be happy for those that do not have to "suffer the way you've suffered" instead? The Skeleton King got killed (again) because of that way of thinking. MithTalk 15:40, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Cry harder. There is no logical reason for skills to require unrelated title grinding to reach their maximum potential and it goes against the original foundations of the game. I was honestly just yesterday considering going back to the Asura areas and trying to improve my Pain Inverter, and I'm thankful now that I don't have to. This doesn't make the game "easier" or "noob pandering"; it makes it less boring and helps bring the focus back to actual playing skill.
And since you brought it up, I can firmly say that I have no pity for people who spent the time to reach their maximum Drunkard title (especially before we were given any indication titles would be worth anything later). If you truly wanted to waste those hundred-something hundred hours of your life, that was your decision or the result of some serious obsessive-compulsive disorder. It's nothing that will make you seem superior to players who didn't do that, so making the title easier does absolutely nothing to your status or personal accomplishment.
The "game" was ridiculous before; now it's bordering upon reasonable. – NuclearDuckie 16:14, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Excuse me? I'll let you know was one of those people that had to grind as I came back in 2009 with nothing to my account as my friend deleted my less than satisfying characters progress-wise with spotty campaign completion so he can play on factions. I had to start fresh and do it all alone w/ henchmen or pugs and I didn't have NF until after I got EotN. And this was in 2009. I had to get it all done as fast as possible as I had no idea what the future had for me in my life and GW 2 could be out any year back then. I like many others in GW at the time were probably dumb, ignorant, and selfish.

I don't need a pity party for me, just know this: I play the game much more old school than most, my user page with my user boxes can attest to that. It took me even a while to accept pve skills that came after factions into my normal play and builds (I love PI and technobabble and intensity). I refuse to use pvx builds or the standard triple Necros (even now I use my own triple necro plague build involving old school thinking and my knowledge of the game) and actually attempt to make my own builds or vary the commonly used builds up a bit. This update came to a shock to me as, if I came any later into GW1 lifespan, I wouldn't have to be so adamant about completing max ranks for everything. This new update did hit my pride as a hardcore old school GW player a bit, but I'm already done with everything so I shouldn't care. The point being; its easier for the new guys coming in late to finish campaigns and if they decide later to max the PvE titles out, they can do it with more powerful skills than they originally were. Its win-win for all even me that doesn't feel the need to grind out max titles on anyone else I may have.Yumiko ^,~ 18:16, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, back in my day, if I wanted to max my sweet tooth title, I had to walk to the title supply store - 12 Miles of walking on a broken sidewalk, in the driving snow, uphill both ways. Now you kids are spoiled rotten by a single NPC who takes away your useful consumables in exchange for useless ones which can be spammed to quickly get your title, and do nothing like remove DP or add Morale. FleshAndFaith 18:47, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

You guys would've maxed the titles anyway, even if they didn't power up any skills. You would. Admit it. This just makes the initial newbie learning curve smoother, so I see no problems with it. I really don't see what there is to complain about, Guild Wars was always about skill. Not grind. These skills were more about the grind. Anet has fixed that somewhat. What's the problem?99.250.136.148 20:00, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Yep, makes rerolling easier too. Or just playing a character for fun. One of the things I've really hated with Guild Wars the last year is having to spend ~80 hours before my character reaches maximum effectiveness. I basically have master of the north of 5 characters now and 1-3 maxed EOTN titles on 2 others. Just tedious and booring, awesome update. 84.48.54.253 02:09, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

People are just ready to hark on every single update at this point.-- anguard 20:03, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I can see why people would complain about the "7 Hero party" update (I did all campaigns H/H, though I suck at creating party builds so this probably wouldn't have made it easier), or many of the numerous PvP skill balances. But reducing grind in general? There isn't an issue. (I still feel gimmicky using PvE skills though) – NuclearDuckie 04:29, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Wah wah. I had to do it the hard way back then so everyone should have to do it the hard way too. Wah wah. Why should other people have it easier when I had it harder? Wah. That type of behavior that's way too prevalent in games as it is. The accomplishment is a max title. Even before this "nerf" nobody cared about your title (Directed at nobody in particular.) so after this nerf, nobody will care still. It's a selfish way of thinking. Be proud of what you have and how you got it. It shouldn't matter if someone else has an easier time getting it. If it doesn't bother me, who's had to max the rep on all 10 of my characters to take advantage of the PVE skills, it sure as hell shouldn't bother anyone else. At least this way, my lazy girlfriend can have a chance to get max-effectiveness PVE skills. 67.249.56.234 10:33, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Amen to this (and I too already have everything maxed, but I ain't selfish either). Besides, these newer players still will need to work to max the titles if they want it for HoM. They just won't have to face as much title/rank discrimination getting groups anymore. 82.11.226.30 11:41, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Unskippable guidance video return

Since every battle that I join has players doing whatever they want ("because it's a game"), but nothing that actually helps to achieve victory. I suggest that the last match outcome for each player is marked (as Dishonour can) and FORCE losers to watch the video without skip option. But let winners enter the arena by skipping it. It's titanically annoying to see that after 7 years of GW...people still dont know to "CAP"... Imagine when these crap players enter GW2 with arenas a little, but just a little bit more difficult, just one bit more difficult... I don't want these noobs entering my game as "instant" while rising the difficulty just because a non-invited noob "freely" decided to join. I MUST BE ABLE TO KICK HIM OUT TOO! (GTF off here ^_^) Yoshida Keiji talk 02:28, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

I totally agree, while we are at it introduce corporal punishment for people who suck at the game, why would people just play a game with out fear of getting throatpunched trough the internets?!. Biz 10:43, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

I think capital punishment would be more suitable. --Combatter 13:14, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Login screen updater

I presume this update also broke the login screen updater and got it stuck on AB weekend. C The 21:37, 31 May 2012 (UTC)