Feedback talk:Game updates/20120913

Fake update notes page?

the link to developers page has none of this information and stephane hasnt even updated forum yet.Spark-TBa 22:07, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

ignore me, the link doesnt work but checked skills and they add up  :) now i feel like a doughnut. Spark-TBa 22:15, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Also, I'm the one who posted it, so it's probably legit. :D ~ Matthew Moore 22:39, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

still no shadow form nerf, this is sad, ele works fine before in both PvE and PvP, other proffessions needed an overhaul way before ele, and anet should have advertised on there company "We have no idea what were doing", for reasons, i quit gw2(its nothing like gw1, just it steals some professions and the guild wars name and you can have guilds), dont make me quit gw1 aswell--124.178.36.201 22:44, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

the ele skills were made a lot more gw2ish, i guess... so they probably didnt do this out of necessity, but to give gw1 players a taste of gw2 85.178.218.50 02:58, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

gw2 is a completely different game model (MMO not ccorpg which gw1 is) so they would be different, I never used half of these skills, but with the changes made I look forward to using them more, imo this is a good move, well done anet. I look forward to trying them out, still think phoenix should res one nearby ally simply due to what a phoenix is but that wont happen :) Spark-TBa 06:38, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Ummm hai anon IP complaing about SF again.... it did get nerfed. yes it is maintainable now but stuff can melee u. getting hit is a nerf from b4. Yes overused for those team builds but ALL of those team builds need those "other minor skills that control the game" which you happened to not mention (this time). Those "other minor skill" anet reduced the title rank needed to max their effectiveness. SF is the least of the problem. Solo farming gets the worst parts of loot scaling and the anti farm code. Drop rates while soloing on most farm have been so greatly reduced its almost not worth it. Really anet staff does not read this wiki so your opinions are not getting to anyone at anet by making the same complaint on every skill balancing update.... oh and op ele got OPer... plz nerf echo-chaining shiro 71.168.79.37 22:01, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

"Really anet staff does not read this wiki". Then how do you explain an ArenaNet staff member (Matthew Moore) commenting above in this section? --24.212.128.137 05:26, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

What is it for? Ele as standalone in GvG? What about Ranger? Smite Monk? Promised Paragon that is missing for at least 1.5 year now? Don't get the reason for this update, really. Ele was always a good supporting char. But since January 5th nearly every second build got double cast stuff as leetskill, maybe think about to buff other classes as well instead of ele only! --Kali Shin Shivara 06:48, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Ok... in general a VERY LIMITED few ANet staff ever check talk pages usually... but every general rule has an exception once in a while. Except the rule that Izzy <3's eles. The only reason Matt posted was to clarify it was him who posted the update info since somebody questioned its validity. 71.168.86.91 22:24, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

afaik Izzy don't balance anything anymore in gw1, a guy with synonymous "*dragon*" (forgot his ingame) actually balance this stuff, and this one was an elementalist player in past gvgs. -.- something new on other class maybe? Maybe I clean the dust from GW1 in this case... --Kali Shin Shivara 03:28, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Totally late but maybe not. Huh, removed copies and added effects to underused skills but did not change most commonly used skills much if at all. Ooohhh dragons as a name? Soooo u mean just look for 'Kuuna Gonna Kill Ya' in game. On an unrelated note nice totally non-dragonish name, I wonder where my old cards are from that game I used to play back around the mid or late 90's i think its from liek mage's on some beach ;) Durp da durp 19:09, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Lightning Javelin

I'm pretty happy with about all of the changes. One does really peeve me though and that's Lightning Javelin. If I wanted to play that stupid "position supremely matters" BS, I'd play that crappy Guild Wars 2 game instead Guild Wars. --108.32.111.20 02:33, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

It's only one skill and nobody's asking you to use it. Random Weird Guy 08:15, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

It bodes poorly for what crap they might bring in in the future. (Also, the rationalization you used is pretty weak logic.) --192.168.103.52 14:01, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Position already matters in GW1. This is just one skill that gives a little bonus for those who watch out for position a bit more than others. As with any skill, if you believe you won't take advantage of it, then you won't bring it. It may add another dimension to positioning, as elementalists with this skill will tend to look for enemies in a line, but then if you see an elementalist moving in position you will also know what they are probably going to do, and they may waste time moving to time position instead just attacking, so it all levels out. I see it quite interesting, and I think Paragons could use this effect. Their spear attacks are a bit lacking and could use that kind of AoE in one of their skills, as positioning for them is more important, as they have lots of PBAoE within earshot skills. MithTalk 14:34, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

As Mith said position has always mattered in GW. There's rangers (and paragons I think) doing more damage if they're above you, body/wall blocking, AoE, Earshot and the various other ranges...you look at any decent PVP team and one of major things that sets them apart is how they position themselves. This is just another variation, although it's not really that different to AoE, just in a line instead of a circle. 109.145.72.56 21:54, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Finally!

Long overdue! Can we have the Paragon update now? :p Preferably within a year this time lol. 82.11.226.30 07:44, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Overcast

Why did they change it this late in the games life? What does it matter if energy restriction is called Exhaustion or Overcast? Also, Exhausting Assault and Aspect of Exhaustion make little sense now. It's funny to see that there are also a couple of skills still refering to Exhaustion instead of Overcast lol..SuperRobertWa 20:32, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

i guess it doesnt really matter what theyre called, except that "exhaustion" has too much of a negative connotation for a desirable condition 85.178.210.239 21:52, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

It's never too late to change skills or even game mechanics. As for names, exhaustion is an excellent keyword as Overloading Assault and Aspect of Overlord sound pretty lame.--Relyk 01:51, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

It's not a desirable condition. I agree with SuperRobertWa completely. Also, this term makes no sense for this. talk 14:34, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Exhaustion in the hands of an elementalist becomes Overcast. Since only Elementalists benefit from it, the name is fine for other sources of Overcast as 'naming convention'. Much like you know all "Wild" skills are "Unblockable stance removal", you know that "Exhausting" skills cause Overcast to foes, even if they are not elementalists. MithTalk 20:31, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Earthen Shackles duration wasn't updated in game

I have just checked the NPC skill trainer and the skill description remains the same, haven't check it's functionality application. Yoshida Keiji (talk) 08:28, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

It's already been noted on this article since 14 September. It's most likely a mistake in the update notes and not a mistake in the in-game description and functionality, since the Developer Update notes mentions for Earthen Shackles: "The new version provides a strong but temporary slow similar to Binding Chains" Note that it states "temporary slow" (20 seconds is not temporary) and Binding Chains also has a 3 second duration. And it wouldn't make any sense for Earthen Shackles to cause -90% movement for 5...20 seconds unconditionally to "target and all nearby foes", which would make it perform better than the other two hexes (besides Binding Chains) that causes -90% movement (Icy Shackles and Mind Freeze) that are elites and have a conditional snare that only snares the target. --Silver Edge 18:44, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Not that great at all

There are some skills wich really bother me and makes me think what they are supposed to be for.

• Lightning Orb: Nerfed a core skill that causes cracked armor just to buff Factions' Lightning Hammer in a boring way, wich could have a better function that synergizes with other Air Magic skills in a different more original way without nerfing Lightning Orb.

• Shell Shock: It already had a weak damage and now it's even worse and for AoE cracked armor you are better off with Weaken Armor, even with a medium investment. Needs to have a clear purpose since being made a combination of 2 skill functions does not work well for it.

• Aftershock: The increase in range is nice but the ele still has no means to make full use of it's power because it still lacks a PBAoE KD skill. Knowing that such a skill is too powerful having it's conditional damage changed into a different function or requiring a different condition would have been better for it.

• Stone Daggers and Ice Spear: Do these 2 really need to be spammable with low damage? It would not hurt giving them a recharge and better damage and effects that last a bit longer.

• Lava Font: Still a PBAoE skill wich will have no place in a Star Burst build or any other fire build. It need either to be ranged or a function overhaul to let it see use. The function is not that bad but there simply are no builds (or limited at best) in wich it can be used in.

• Smoldering Embers: Still inferior to Fireball due to a lack of AoE damage. The single target damage is nice but that's the job of Air Magic not Fire Magic, having it OC damage made adjacent would fix it.

• Swirling Aura: Why does it still have a projectile block? There are much better abilities for it than a projectile block.

• Icy Shackles: Where is it?

Da Mystic Reaper 17:54, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

dragon stomp works really well with aftershock so it does have a PBAoE KD to go with it if you cast dragon stomp at PB range. Spark-TBa 18:50, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

But do Earthquake and Dragon Stomp really make a good combo with Aftershock? Using a 3 second casting spell at point blank hardly is worth using due to the better alternatives, true that there is a skill for the Aoe KD but if it makes a viable combo is a completely different thing. Da Mystic Reaper 19:39, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Where is

Shockwave? ... 89.75.189.14 19:32, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

New Idle Quotes?

I've just noticed that a bunch of my heroes are giving idle quotes I've never noticed before, and I don't see on the wiki. Anyone else notice this? For example, Sousuke said something about being able to beat Jin in a fight, and Dunkoro said something new too. - LordEhzed 20:51, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Possibly or you and I have not noticed it before :)MystiLefemEle 21:05, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

You probably didn't notice before. Nightfall quotes change depending on the progress though story. MithTalk 02:10, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

You'll find most, if not all, of the quotes documented in each henchmen's "Quotes" section (that we know of). If they're really new, please check your quest progress and add it in. Perhaps they are new quotes. And add a note to the "trivia" section as well I suppose. -- ab.er.rant 03:04, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

And if you don't, if, in fact, they are new, please add them! :D --Musha 07:22, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Oh well, here we go again!

Another skill update that accomplishes very few things, despite the apparent innovation in skill mechanics. The update didn't live up to the pep talk given over it in the Developer updates. Sure, about 90% of the playerbase in this dead game slurps up the crap anyway, but with the full experience of the GW2 development period you should know already what the main problems were in guild wars and should have started fixing THOSE instead of giving nice happy and totally unnecessary buffs to a profession that was already powerful.

First off, exhaustion wasn't that bad as you state it to be. Good players didn't avoid exhaustion, just look at the builds used in the championships! Exhaustion was just another resource to manage that added a new "cost" into the game that gave another depth to elementalist gameplay, allowing real strong skills to be given exhaustion cost to balance it out. This was the case of immolate when it had a high energy cost with 2 seconds recharge, before Mind Blast. As soon as the real "costly" nature of the skill was removed, the whole balance around energy costs ended up in flames, and many and many skills needed an overhaul or changes, or even nerfs to regain another kind of balance. And those changes might spur up problems that require different changes to be implemented. Repeat ad infinitum.

Anyway, Exhaustion was a good drawback when implemented properly with skills. Gale is the prime example. Strong effect, strong drawback. Warriors, Elementalists, even mesmers would use Gale, an even rack up some exhaustion to score a few kills. Ether Prodigy gave energy if you sacrificed some exhaustion, and allowed the elementalists to really crank up their output, for a limited time, and of course at the cost of exhaustion building up if the pace of the game demanded it.

In short it wasn't a mechanic as bad as you describe it to be, and it wasn't NEAR bad enough to warrant complete buffs to elementalists with exhaustion in the way it happened.

At least individual buffs themselves weren't completely bad, at least on the broadest conceptual level. Changing Flare, Stone Daggers, Ice Spear was necessary, but again the balance suffers as Flare, Ice Spear, and Lightning Strike outclass the mediocre 1..5 seconds of bleeding. A couple of additional targets like Water Trident, conditional damage to weakened foes... You could have done all kinds of things with it, but you chose a very very very mediocre effect on high level play, as degen is nowhere near as useful as damage on levels 20 and beyond.

Changes to other skills felt random and poorly thought-out. Incendiary bonds, while given a potential to be more damaging, had the problem as telegraphing a spike in pvp, and it is not changed at all. Although it MIGHT see more use in PvE, and it MIGHT have some sinergy with the few overcast options, but there are too few overcast combo skills to really make up for bringing a dedicated overcast source, and it doesn't help the elementalists' real problem which is that one skill out of 8 must be an attunement, as every single spell's energy cost is balanced calculating in the return from it's attunement. It's really limiting the options an elementalist can bring, and of course makes it vulnerable to enchantment removal. This is not addressed at all.

There was another good mechanic with the retooled Lightning Javelin, and it's good, rewards positioning, but that's only one skill.

The Aura skills are nice to have, although I think the range in case of overcast is too high, and one time block effect webs are not very desirable. Short-duration nearby-ranged guardian copies are the way to go.

That Lightning Hammer was given the CA instead of Lightning Orb was a long overdue change, and I'm glad it happened.

But like almost everything in this update: Too little, too late.

End. --Boro 07:25, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Exhaustion was a really good mechanic, I agree - even low-regen classes like warriors would exhaust themselves down with shock spam if they had a reason to. Oddly enough, eles didn't often use exhaustion-causing skills after eprod fell out of the meta - mind shock came and went, but mostly they just stuck to normal elites. Not really sure why you're tldring balance updates years after a dead game died and the sequel came out tho. -Auron 09:00, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Indeed exhaustion or overcast as it is now called is a good balancing method and since the 5 points exhaustion is used more often since it's an ammount that is neglecitble for about 3-4 casts depending on the recharge. Letting skills make use of the drawback is a nice idea but if it's really needed is rather questionable, there are plenty of other methods present to buff up those skill.

What also bothers me a bit is that there are skills that are updated just for the sake to be updated and it results in functions that are quite questionable. Some skills have been given exhaustion just for the sake of skills that make use of it wich i also don't see as a way to go with skill updates, changing functions for synergy with other skills is good but not giving them drawbacks just to let them synergize.

The only thing i disagree with Boro is Lightning Orb and Lightning Hammer. Lightning Orb wich is a strongly but costly spell got nerfed just to buff Lightning Hammer, wich i don't see as a right thing to do either. There are plenty of ways (and suggestions) of buffing Lightning Hammer without de-buffing Lighning Orb for it's sake. Letting it inflict cracked armor is good, reducing it's cost and giving it a modest AoE damage balanced out with Overcast and an increased recharge would also be a good option, that would allow it to meet conditions of Arc Lightning and Shock Arrow 2 other Factions skills.

Well anyways the update having skills updated for the sake of being updated and skills receiving drawbacks for the sake of other skills is something i don't like at all. Da Mystic Reaper 17:49, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

As always, I felt that the pace of the game has kept increasing with each new expansion. In the past, positioning and pressure was all that mattered; spike wasn't very viable as you didn't have big damage skills. Thus IWAY and etc pressure builds dominated. With new spike capabilities, the game is rapidly shifting towards it, the new updates reflect this fact:Flat damage increases to BASE classes, addition of mechanics to allow spikes(Cracked armor, Mass enchantment removal) 220.255.1.107 15:04, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Water Magic Hexes

Great! Ty, now I can craft some builds again, just one thing their really aren't that much water magic hexes imo. 213.10.11.241 18:44, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Unnecessary

I've been playing Ele a lot in PvP (and a bit of PvE), I don't see the need for these buffs (most of the changes seem like buffs to me). Eles already became quite strong in PvE and PvP after the last buff (before that they were DPS weak in PvE). My concern is Anet might flip and overnerf stuff if people start grumbling how OP things are... 121.121.80.227 18:46, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

If it was gw that was just released, and not gw2, then possibly they would nerf the ele skills slightly - as it is the endgame for gw1 I bet they won't be nerfing boatloads of skills any time soon. File:User Chieftain Alex Chieftain Signature.jpg Chieftain Alex 18:53, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Ice Spear totally fucked up

The caster needs to self enchant to throw a spear? Inconsistent with Flare and Stone Daggers...and why is now giving you health regeneration? Yoshida Keiji (talk) 09:29, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Meh they're nice little effects considering they're starter skills.

What I really want to know is if the regeneration takes effect if your target is standing in a Well of the Profane, i.e. similar to Vampiric Spirit. Chieftain Alex 09:32, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Water got a little healing, possibly influenced by GW2, to keep the themes more consistent. And yes. Like Vampiric Spirit, you can't target enemies inside an allied-made Well of the Profane. MithTalk 14:32, 8 October 2012 (UTC)