Talk:Cacophony

Backfire analogy

Ouch. This is going to hurt Paragon teams. -Elviondale 01:11, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Backfire for Paragons! =D Vengeance Signet 01:12, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Seems kind of narrow in use. The thing I like about Ulcerous Lungs is that it has a dual purpose, punish shouts/chants and do extra damage to bleeders. Maybe this should have a dual purpose with a slightly decreased effect on shouts/chants? --Heelz 01:58, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

This skill is never going to be used. It's just like Vocal Minority, except instead of forbidding shouts and chants all together, it allows you to squeeze out the vital ones. Without a dual purpose (that doesn't rely on shouts, like Ulcerous), I can't see this skill ever seeing serious usage.Rakeman 03:02, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

It seems to fit in with Domination more than Curses considering Empathy and Backfire. Sirocco 04:52, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Pretty true-Rakeman 07:17, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree, this skill is pointless when you already have Vocal Minority unless your opponent is dumb enough to kill himself. The 2 second cast time only makes it even worse. --Draikin 14:14, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Reduce duration to fit with backfire's 88.169.112.155 08:39, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Instead of making this more in line with Backfire, this skill should be measured against Visions of Regret. --  (CoRrRan / talk) 16:28, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

There is a reason no1 uses Visions of Regret (it sucks).--Renegade 19:37, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Sadly, I've seen Visions of Regret in AB and RA a few times. All on Primary mesmers of course, and I've only seen it when I've been on my warrior... Been hexed with it once or twice in an AB match maybe 1/15th of the time, and only seen it in RA once or twice. Only seen it when I was on my warrior of course, and every time I see it pop up I simply laugh, my warrior has no adrenal skills at all, so it's a waste of an elite, and a waste of energy on me. Heck I even tell them I don't use adrenaline... They just say they don't belive me :P Their loss, not mine. Literally.--Devvu

Its not on Mesmers/Domination cause the Mesmer theme is about controlling magic. The Necro/Curses theme is about weakening your opponent physically. Eth 08:28, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Secondary effect

This skill badly needs secodnary use when no shouts are around otherwise it will follow vocal minority to its grave. add "If target foe is not under effect of Shout or Chant, he takes 32...96 (shaddow) damage" making it possible choice in rainbow spike. Zweistein 11:02, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Or just add: If this hex ends without being triggered at least once, ist deals 5..80 Damage to target and all adjacent foes. That would give it a good second use as coverhex against hexremoves (nice punishment for removing my hexes). The recasttime should also be decreased to 8, maybe (with the additional effect) the energycost increased to 15. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sir Astaroth (talk • contribs) 14:37, 21 July 2007 (UTC).

They should add something as "...and foes affected by Shout or Chant take 15...60...90 damage" Berekän 19:11, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

No offense, but that ENTIRELY misses the point. Odds are, if foes are affected by shouts or chants, there is SOMEONE casting them, and you can apply this to them. The secondary affect is being looked for as an affect when there are no enemy's that you can cast on. I like the idea of doing a punishment for not using a shout/chant while under the affect of it. -Rakeman 19:32, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Just adding more ideas :) I thought maybe 5/.25/10, interrupt an action (maybe spell/chant like the power xxx spells), if it's a chant, it hexes the foe for somewhere around 15s. I like Zweistein's idea, but I think it would make hexway even more overpowered if those necromancers good shutdown, degen, AND spike. (Not saying mine is perfect) skaspaakssa 13:59, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

No, this skill doesn't "badly need" anything. And there is nothing wrong with a skill not seeing play. If shouts are to be considered as a very general category such as enchantments, then there can easily be room for general anti-shout skills. If there is a meta where shouts are absent, then don't bring this, just as you wouldn't bring hex hate if the meta is devoid of hexes. Gus 15:17, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I posted this on GWO a day or two ago, but since it's along the lines of this discussion, I'll copy it over here:

The way I see it, Cacophony serves a single purpose: to sit around and never see play, but ensure that no one ever makes a truly dominating build that relies on stacking paragons - because if they ever do, everyone will simply start running Cacophony and decimate them. Essentially, it has more effect on the metagame by just being there and not being used than its actual usage does. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 15:22, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

6 of 10 Classes have Hex-Skills, 7 of 10 Classes have Spells, but only 2 Classes of 10 have Shouts or Chants. Comparing Cacaphony to Skills like Backfire oder Hexremoves does not make sense, they are usefull against more classes. Therefore the Idea of giving Cacaphony a secondary Effect is not a bad one. This secondary effect would make it worth to equip the skill, noone would sacrifice one slot for a skill that does not have any use 90% of the time. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:84.180.108.237 .

In my opinion, making this a single-charge skill would be better. "Target foe is hexed with Cacophony. For 6 seconds, the next time target foe uses a Shout or Chant, it fails and all nearby foes take 15..63..75 damage." Lower the recharge to 12, and the cast time to 1/4. Then instead of being exactly like Backfire (mostly shutdown, and just sit there on their effects bar) it will be like Mistrust and actually pose a problem and be less avoidable. Then again, I'm not exactly sure how a shout would fail, so maybe a 6-second increased recharge would be better to prevent adrenaline charge. That would counter, say, GFTE and WY spam. 19:03, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

The one-charge-version is even worse: same problem (only 2 classes affected, not against all builds of those classes effective) but you can sacrifice one chant to cast the rest before the hex is recharged. This thing needs an interesting secondary effect if noone uses chants and shouts, elseway it is a wasted slot and the skill is dead before it comes to use. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Sir Astaroth .

The point of the 1/4 cast is to slap it on them right before they use something important. Maybe a better version would read as.. "Target foe is hexed with Cacophony. For 6 seconds, the next time target foe uses a Shout or Chant, it fails, all nearby foes take 15..63..75 damage, and all nearby foe's shouts and chants are disabled for 1..5..6 seconds. Then it would probably warrant the 10/2/15 it has now. I understand that only 2 classes are affected by it, but those two classes are both metagame currently, especially GFTE/WY spamming Paragons and Steady Stance/"Fear Me!" Warriors. 23:30, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

another totally stupid idea, just like well of silence and vocal minority. All it does is make certain parts of PVE impossible for Paragons while creating one more skill that'll never be used in PVP. Anet! stop making these f---in' skills that are designed to take out only ONE profession, and it's always Paragons that they target. Gay to the max --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:74.114.224.156 .

I agree. The Sunspear-Shout is mostly the only reason to pick a paragon, massive shutdown of Chants used by monsters could narrow the niche for paras (if the Monster-AI is intelligent enough to use it on paragons and not targets monks with it) once again while Players dont use this skill against monsters. Its agreed that Paras/Warriors are strong in PvP Metagame, but i think that this spell wont be used in PvP that much (neither in original nor the one-charge version). The best idea was a secondary effect, this effect, if one is chosen, can then be balanced for PvP Metagame and PvE. If Paras and Warriorshouts vanish, lower the primary effect and raise the secondary, if they become too strong lower the secondary and raise the primary. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Sir Astaroth .

bring hex removal. if you cant adapt you deserve to lose - Skakid9090 23:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I honestly feel this should be a narrow skill otherwise it just really hurts paragons, backfire is a strong effect, the costs could come down as the biggest cost is the skill slot. ~Izzy @-'---- 00:39, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok, i got the point: Giving it a strong secondary effect, everone would take it and Paras/Warriors would suffer. On the other hand, with no secondary effect, it is too narrow for almost everyone to take it. That means it goes from the scrach to the grave, making it cheaper does not change anything. Is there maybe a little secondary effect you can think of? Like 1-3 Healthdegen or something. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Sir Astaroth .

Backfire might be strong effect, but it still gives players choice of skill usage, and its manageable with prot spirit. Vocal Minority is a lot stronger effect (giving non-choice shutdown and even AOE). Yet people do not use it even with paraway or steady stance meta around. Besides, backfire applies to 7 classes out of 10 and even then it is not used a lot in higher PvP. That said, if vocal minority is not used, this wont be used either and if ever paraway becomes problem again, people suggesting whining pvpers to adapt and use it will get laughed at again, just like with VM. Zweistein 08:03, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Without a secondary effect this skill is so close in functionality to Backfire and Empathy that I think it belongs in the same place - the Mesmer Domination line. Xelonir 15:36, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Just because the mechanics are similar doesn't mean it belongs in the same line. That's like saying Savage Slash should be a Ranger skill because of Savage Shot. Necromancers are the ones with anti-shout stuff, not Mesmers. It has no reason to move. Capcom 07:48, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Errors made in the past should not be used as a reason for further following such a path. I think it would help balancing in general, if classes had a tighter profile and the spells would match this profile. The Mesmer's realm is mainly shutdown and energy-drain/denial. We saw what happened when damage-dealing was added to this with the original Spiritual Pain. Now the Necromancer - already a powerfull class - got skills like Vocal Minority and Depravity with Nightfall, making it an even more versatile class - and skills like Cacophony just add to this, further fueling the strong hex-over meta. In the end this will result in the big nerf bat needing to be directed at the Necromancer class as a whole because it was made too versatile in the first place. Xelonir 11:34, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah, and Necromancers sure haven't had a skill similar to Backfire and Empathy since Prophecies. Capcom 22:54, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, pretty much everyone thinks that SS should have been mesmer skill since begining (it would have solved a lot of PvE problems for them for sure), so that point is hardly strong Zweistein 13:10, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Who is "pretty much everyone?" My favourite profession is Mesmer and I've never thought SS should be moved. Stupidity of people doesn't make my point any less valid. They've had a skill that punishes on actions since the very beginning. They're the ones with skills that punish shouts. Mesmers don't deal with the physical body like Necromancers do, which is what damaging upon shouts and chants would be. This skill makes sense as a Necro one. Capcom 17:18, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Insidious Parasite should also go on mesmers, then? Oh, ok. We might as well put every damn skill that could possibly shut down on one class that can already shut down everything. Cool. Should we give necromancers all of mesmer's enchantment removal skills while we're at it? -~=Sparky (talk) 14:41, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually yes, they should, or at least it should've been that way from the start, give necromancers all of those condition manipulating skills that mesmers have.--Ckal Ktak 18:56, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

IWAY, hit the Highway!

Yay! Something to add to Well of Silence... Gwynna Vive 10:47, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

That doesnt make sense. If someone inside a well of silence is hexed with cacaphony, he cant trigger the effect.Same wiht vocal Minority. the only skill it could "combo" with, is ulcerous Lungs, but i dont think this combo is worth 2 slots. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Sir Astaroth .

Maybe, never thought of it that way. At any rate, I got a bit too ahead of myself... I missed the part about PvE only skills... Gwynna Vive 06:40, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Nix that, this isn't one of the PvE skills...my bad. I don't know for certain, as I don't use IWAY at all, but most spell killer effects still consume energy, and trigger the effect (ie: backfire still does damage even if you try to cast on a dervish with vow of silence) so if this works that way, it is useful for energy denial on an IWAY, as well as some unexpected damage. The game really needs something significant and extreme to counter the IWAY team. There's little skill involved in it, and it's far too powerful. The game is much more interesting if a player/team has to get creative with skill selection. Gwynna Vive 07:19, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Making it AoE?

I like how the skill has a step lower cost/cast/recharge than Backfire because Shouts/Chants are much less common than spells, but if this skill was designed to deal with Zergway, making it AoE would be ideal. Essentially, if this hex gets on anyone that isn't a Paragon (lesser extend, a warrior) then there is no damage done. In an ideal balanced build, there would be only one paragon. Against Zergway, being able to cast this on a group of opponents would punish them for bringing multiple paragons, without overpowering it for a balanced team. I agree about giving it a secondary effect to make it worth the risk of wasting the skill slot.--Skye Marin 21:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Woo i understand shouts and chants concern a little range of characters but making it AoE is maybe too much... If it does however it needs to be reworked in order not to become another AoE cover hex... however, and it mainly concerns Izzy, this skill doesn't need to be reworked as an "active hex" because it's effect is very focused, therefore it won't be used too much. ~~ Azul 13:21, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I really dont think i should be an aoe-hex. I would prefer it as a singletarget-hex with an secondary effect that makes it more usable. It must not have over 100 maxdamage, 60 are more than enough if it goes with a usefull secondary. Making it AoE would only hurt Paras and Warriors more, but it would not make the skill more usefull. I´d like to see it as a skill that hurts paras/warr a bit more than the rest and that is usefull enough to find its way into some builds rather than making it aoe-megadamge-thing that noone uses becouse it is too narrow in use. Like it is, i dont know what a para must do to make me equip it, a lot, thats for sure.(Sir Astaroth 15:44, 30 July 2007 (UTC))

Maybe it could be AoE after cast, like "... whenever a shout is used near target foe, that foes takes damage...". That way it's more like you made the foe more sentitive to cacaphonous noise. Though it may be abused by putting on and shouting at the target, so the damage might need to come down. Da Si 04:00, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

"...whenever an ally (of target foe) uses a shout near target foe, that foe takes x damage." Possibly? Kind of confusing like Horns' description, but it wouldn't trigger on your team's shouts/chants. RitualDoll 09:24, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I'd say completely rework it to a spell which kills the effects of shouts and chants on a target(s). Would be a unique effect and go some way to better counter paras with less nerfing. --Ckal Ktak 16:26, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

A second idea would be to make it deal damage when a refrain refreshes, that's be funny. --Ckal Ktak 16:28, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Translation Suggestions

To avoid some bad skill translations i'm opening a comment for new skills so everybody can post their translation suggestions in various languages, have fun :) --YukoIshii 23:52, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Italian: Cacofonia --YukoIshii 23:52, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Along the same lines as above, it's originally from ancient Greek κακα φονος, meaning "bad sound". 69.249.223.63 23:13, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Which in turn is probably derived from "kakka" ("to defecate") or "sounds like defecation." I learned this in school and since this is the kind of thing that gets deleted from wikis without one, I found a source to cite: [1]. I think it belongs in the article but I'm also sure it would immediately be removed. --War_Pig5 01:58, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Wow!

This is an awsome skill! ill use it all the time for killing paragons with nasty chants and shouts. Dean Harper 03:38, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Why ruin shouts?

Lol at people who say: bring hex removal. 1. So if that is so simple, why does backfire last 50% of its recharge and Pacifism not even that much? If it is so ok to shut down paragon hardcore, why don't we make Backfire last 20 sec and pacifism 30? Hell you have no problem making this skill and Vocal Minority have durations longer than recharges. And if previous experience is any indication, monsters in high end pve will spam it so much that hex removal will be impossible. Do you think monks will remove Vocal or this skill from a paragon in Domain of Anguish? They will rather just not take a paragon than deal with the hex. And most of the time paragons aren't the only hexed party member. 2. Paragons in gvg use like 1 chant to keep up refrain and maybe one other shout/chant. There's no shout abuse going on, most of them have been nerfed like hell. Yet people see fitting that hardcore shutdown with no downtime is made. Cute. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:193.77.140.234 .

Shouts were nerfed to hell because there wasn't much in the way of counters to them, so if counters are included, then shouts can be theoretically made better again. - HeWhoIsPale 20:39, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

its a goddam 2 sec cast, single target hex, if you can't interrupt it, you deserve to lose — Skuld 20:43, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Paragons have 1 interupt. Are you saying you shouldn't use a Paragon unless you have an interupter Ranger or Mesmer on your team? Is this the same reason that Weapon of Remedy is horribly "overpowered", Skuld? ^^ 173.67.13.30 02:12, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

dont be fucking retarded. warriors have interupts aswell. and if you arent using a mesmer, ranger or warrior at all in the team you are running a gayway gimmick. And if you are you fucking deserve to lose.Oni 16:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

k

And so spoketh the Gods that only Warriors, Rangers and Mesmers will be the 'chosen classes' to grace non-gimmick builds. None shall consider running non-mainstream builds for it will not amuse the Gods! Thou shalt not run Necromancer without being gimmick! Thou shalt never consider Paragon! Thou shalt only run Monk backlines! So sayeth the PvP elite of Guild Wars! 71.173.182.228 02:42, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

=The icon

It look like a guy with a vacum cleaner on his mouth.Bazooka56

Changing the Skill

I suggest a total change since a cacophony is a disharmony in sounds it should deal damage to those affected by shouts not the one using them. So, a AoE-Effect dealing damage to those getting a chant/shout would make more sense in the definition of a cacophony and give this spell the chance of being used by some ppl. Lou Wolfskin 13:53, 30 August 2009 (UTC)