Talk:Leadership

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Although this attribute may not be as game-breaking as let's say Expertise, it is quite useful in the sense that it contains a lot of decent skills, that work with its own energy management property. Anthem of Flame and Anthem of Fury both support your party, give you energy and can keep up your own Aggressive Refrain.Nicky Silverstar 08:14, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

With all the nerfs, I'd say Izzy finds it much more game breaking than Expertise. RitualDoll 05:32, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Can someone please explain how this works? Like, do you get energy back when you use the skill, or when a shout ends or what?--Fallen 02:07, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

When you use it. So, if you use a shout that's adrenaline, it's pure instant energy gain. A chant's energy gain triggers when the casting finishes. RitualDoll 03:19, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
That's quite awesome. Thanks.--Fallen 21:23, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion[edit]

Its kinda hard getting by playing paragon in 4 player parties nowadays, meh the recent nerfing of WY and GftE was pretty hard, here is my suggestion to fix Leadership

"You gain 8 energy for each party member affected by one of your non-sigent skills divided by the total party size (maximum 1 Energy for every 2 ranks and 4 energy per party member)."

example if there are 6 players in your party (and you have 8 or more in leadership) and you use a non-signet skill that affects 3 party memebers you gain 4 energy [(8 * 3) / 6 = 4]

This way paragons dont have to be in larger parties to become effective. Replacing shouts and chants with overall skills will allow paragon be useful combined with other classes than warrior and make it alot more fun to play (a skill balancers nightmare). While changing shouts and chants to non-sigent skills is more of a wish, changing 8 energy divided on the total party size is a real suggestion to fix leadership without having to rebalance any other skills.--85.225.131.129 22:03, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

I have another suggestion: The energy costs of your shouts and chants are reduced by 1 for each party member within earshot (maximum reduction is Leadership devided by 2). That would stop the free energy generated by adrenaline shouts. Nicky Silverstar 13:22, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
I'd much prefer a cost reduction to an energy gain. - User HeWhoIsPale sig.PNG HeWhoIsPale 13:29, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
That wouldnt stop the current synergy that paragons only are useful in bigger parties, changing to reduced cost would pretty much destroy the class altoghter from having a good emanagement primary to almost none, its like making soul reaping to reduce cost of the next hex spell whenever a creature dies. To fix the paragon we dont need to restrict it further to only being able to use paragon skills it needs more synergies to other classes aswell as bein able to play in smaller parties. Maybe make the energy gain less, say max 1 Energy for every 3 ranks and making it apply for any non-signet or non-spell that the paragon uses on an ally. The paragon as it is now synergies too well with eachother and almost not at all with other classes exception for warrior. Make the synergies within the class weaker (like seting a max amount of uses before a refrain or final wears off) and buff its synergies to other classes aswell as making equally useful independent on the party size would save this class and allow it to be more useful in other parties that para only parties.--85.225.131.176 20:31, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Auron Bushi And here stands the root of all the problems...They've changed primary attribute functionality before. Necro Soul Reaping, Ranger Expertise, yet they seem so stand offish when it comes to tweaking this.. instead of cutting the head of the beast Anet seems intent on removeing its extrimities one by one. If the Paragon Atribute LEADERSHIP is allowing Paragons to obtain large amounts of nrg in exchange for Adrenaline Powered shouts and chants (which is the Frikin point of the frikin atribute, nrg efficeincy through frequent usage of shouts and chants, which is why i dont understand why Anet seems to have a problem with paragon useing skills to do just that!) and the devs aparantly have an issue with this. THEN WHY DONT YOU DO THE SMART THING AND CHANGE HOW LEADERSHIP WORKS INSTEAD OF CHANGEING EVERY SKILL THAT CAN POSSIBLE WORK WELL IN COMBINATION WITH LEADERSHIP? Cause after all thats the issue people are useing leadership the right way. it may not be the way it was intended to be used, as is apparent by Anets actions but it is no doubt the BEST Way to use it. and you cant blame any1 for doing so. the best thing to do is to 1st of all revert the skills you've wreked in your misguided attempts to "ballance" the paragon profession, then actually ballance the PARAGON PROFESSION at its roots. You dont open the door to let fresh air in then decide, "nah i dont want fresh air" and start putting up scented candles all about your house. YOU CLOSE THE FRAKEN DOOR! This is the Door! Close it and be done with it, because obviously the smell of fresh air is not to your likeing. How are you likeing the analogies they doing it for you or what? nvmd...

It would be nice if a-net could return the para to its past glory...Zeph 03:45, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

How about this? Leadership: For every two ranks in leadership, the effects of a shout effect one additional member of the party or the effects of a single shout are doubled up, if all party members are already effected by a shout, then double on a party member already with the shout (max: twice or three times the effectiveness per player). Then follow the normal critical strikes energy management after, maxing out at three energy maximum for every shout used) Like in normal leadership, the max capability is still at 8 members; however, in 4v4 there is no loss in effectiveness, as the shouts return and double on the original user. This gives the para the ability to solo, and do all that it would normally be able to do in pve. 'course A-net would never go for this without major nerfing... but, as the para would have little energy management w/ this...Zeph 03:45, 16 November 2008 (UTC) 70.2.113.48 09:09, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

An easy fix would be to let Ld reduce energy cost instead of giving energy. That way, you wouldn't get energy from adrenaline shouts and chants. 145.94.74.23 12:25, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Change the profession into something unique[edit]

I have a better idea...why not just make leadership give energy pips while giving at the same time -def, since the paragon was basically supposed to be a support character anyway. So Leadership: every point in leadership gives 1...2 extra energy regeneration and -10...-20...-25 physical and/or elemental defense. So in total, the Paragon will have 4 energy regen and about 60-75 defense.

There should be wands/offhands and staves made for chants,(or add some chant boosting inscriptions to spears/shields) and basically the Paragon should be a chanting midline buffer. Chants b/c they are unique to the paragon class, and since warriors already have shouts it would buff them up too much, if the inscriptions were for shouts I mean.

This would require the tweaking of some of the Paragons skills, but this would give the Paragon a little niche of his own, instead of being a wannabe ranger/warrior.24.56.247.13 07:56, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Or make the Paragon into a spear combo machine :P ...i'm out of ideas at this point. Shouldn't Izzy be doing this stuff. He should use his brain more and his nerfbat less, and give us a fun, fair, competitive game for once.24.56.247.13 08:12, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Ally or Party Member?[edit]

Any reason why pets and summoned creatures do not give the energy bonus? Murex 01:17, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Pets and summoned creatures ARE counted as allies in game mechanics. Justin6 User Justing6 Justing6 siggypic.png 03:48, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
So they give energy if affected? Just to confirm this. F. C. Sauër 18:46, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
^ yes 127.0.0.1 18:48, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

There is a need to resolve issues with this page, a concise description of "each ally affected by one of your Shouts or Chants" needs to be incorporated in notes to clear up confusion. There does not need to be a note that minis do not allow a paragon to gain energy through leadership, as minis are not affected by a shout or chant.

Asura summons[edit]

do Asura Summons count as allies for the energy management of leadership?

Asura Summons, created minions, and spirits count for Leadership. Kyubiko 05:55, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Buffed to 2 energy per ally instead of 1[edit]

Hooray! Nice change .. I wonder if we'll see Paragons in Random Arenas, Codex Arena, etc now that only 4 allies are needed to reach the maximum (16) Leadership cap --Combatter 23:08, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

I still don't think the paragon will be seen as often as other professions, but they will definitely be viable. As much as I love the paragon, they are balanced for a full team and are thus more effective with seven other players. This update really only fixed their energy battery. They still have a long way to go before being completely ready to play in RA. This is, of course, only my opinion, though. Ζεφ 23:21, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
Sad thing is, I have NEVER seen a primary Paragon playing in any of the HA or GvG games that I have observed which I think shows that the profession is still in need of some love from ArenaNet! --Combatter 08:40, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
You surely saw only a few matches if you haven't seen Paraspike/Martyr Para/DA Para in HA or 2 Para balanced team setups in top GvG.. 31.187.1.70 15:27, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
The new description omits the fact that it boosts the effectiveness of your Leadership skills (Example: Without Death Magic, you can control no more than two undead servants. For every two ranks of Death Magic, you can control one additional undead servant. Many Necromancer skills, especially those that animate undead servants, manipulate corpses, and deal cold damage, become more effective with higher Death Magic.) This description only tells you about the energy gain. Should this be made into a note? Jeree95 07:23, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
"Higher Leadership makes your Leadership skills more effective" isn't a very interesting note. -- Hong 09:21, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
Yes but the point is that every other attribute has such a text... Jeree95 10:10, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
Many of the primary attributes do not have text mentionning skills in their in-game descriptions - Soul Reaping, Fast Casting, Critical Strikes, Mysticism --Combatter 15:03, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
I just observed a load more games and didn't see a single primary Paragon --Combatter 15:04, 26 November 2011(UTC)
Thats because there isn't a role for it in the current meta. Para's really aren't underpowered they just don't have their place in current builds. The problem with them is their mechanic rather than the power of their skills, if you bring them up to viability they become stupidly overpowered the more of them you bring. If you'd played pvp whenever they have been in the meta you would agree it is better without them, ranged DPS, ranged spike assists, lots of passive defense and high armor as well as promoting just 8v8 play, they don't bring anything good to the game as its a fairly skilless bar which adds way too much to a team for just pressing buttons, hell you don't even need to target allies for defense as well as you can just t-space your offense... The game is better without them being super common in pvp believe me. They fill a kinda niche role now and aren't really OP so anet should just leave it at that 213.131.109.129 12:52, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
Ahh sorry, I had never thought of that :D Jeree95 07:48, 27 November 2011 (UTC)