Feedback talk:User/Gah My Name Cant Fi/Searing Flames

easiest way to kill this skill is simply reducing it from nearby to adjacent Talamare 16:18, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

It's "in the area", not nearby, and that would still leave the opportunity for easy spikes in HA. --Gah_ 18:57, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

2 "Deals 100 damage" is overpowered, period. The fact that it also causes AoE burning and damage is just icing on the cake. Raine - talk 19:14, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

atm it says nearby, and spikes will still happen with no matter what skill is used, also 100 2 isnt that op, but go ahead and suggest to bump it to 4 Talamare 22:49, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) I'd like it if something creative was done with this skill that still fit in with the fire magic theme (which is basically just... damage. ugh). The current function is overpowered, but I'd like it if we didn't end up with another smiter's boon on our hands. —Jette 22:52, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Why not changing it to a long lasting Burning spell, without any damage. Something like 20 sec burning, but no damage at all, that way it becomes a pressure skill, not a spike skill, and it would be pointless to bring more than 1 copy of it in a team. 84.101.141.5 23:09, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

You mean this? —Jette 23:11, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand the Problem here... Could someone explain plz why people aren't just countering it by equipping and using MORE Skills that remove Condtions(yes, burning IS a condition) or using skills that prevent Burning entirely? And what about Energy Denial or Condition Transfer? There's more counters to burning and SF spiking than just that. If there wasn't, then no one would be Farming those damn Flame Djinni's in HM when they're the Z-bounty and they spike a LOT harder than most players can. Is it mainly a problem in smaller teams, and if so, won't Sealed Deck fix that? I keep reading complaints about this and it just sounds exactly like the Palm'assin whining where there WERE counters available but no one ever wanted to "sacrifice" a slot on their bars for those counters even though they claimed the population of Palm'assins had reached critical mass. How is Searing any different of a situation? --ilr 01:14, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Have you ever played "I Wanna Be The Guy"? It's beatable.

In a related story, Searing Flames is counterable. Raine - talk 05:31, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

The problem is that it's a wide AoE, meaning that a monk or other character would need to remove everyone's conditions every 2 seconds to prevent a 2 "Deals 100 damage" massacre. Frigid Armor has always been a counter for it, but that requires major sacrifices to a whole team to all go /E to accomodate one skill. If an entire team needs to change for a single skill to not be overpowered, we have a problem.--Alce What's the Build today? 13:55, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

2 whole seconds? ...That's an eternity when you've got access to Peace and Harmony or Martyr, Spotless Soul, Purifying Veil, and Recovery or Featherfoot Grace ...better yet just run a Paragon or Necro hybrid and kill off or transfer the burning with shouts and signets... I'm not saying Searing isn't Overpowered b/c obviously I've fought large enough groups of flame Djinns to get the hint. I just feel it's necessary to point out that it has counters and the people who don't embrace those counters will get rocked just as hard when Searing finally does get nerfed and some other Meta using constant burning and fire spiking replaces it. The problem isn't just with Searing Flames, it's a problem with ALL fire magic. --ilr 00:48, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but you're suggesting removing burning or reducing its duration to less than 2 seconds every 2 seconds on yourself and all nearby allies for 6-8 casts (a perfectly reasonable number when you factor in GoLE and Fire Attunement), and you're not considering other enemies with Searing Flooms, which is the whole basis of SF spike. Pardon me if I think you're not thinking this through very well. --Gah_ 15:39, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

And yes, all Fire Magic is a problem, but you have to start somewhere, preferably with the most broken of the skills. --Gah_ 15:40, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Additionally, nobody carries Martyr, Purifying Veil, or Featherfoot Grace, and Spotless Soul only works on other allies. --Gah_ 16:44, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

I didn't even think he was worth replying to. Glad you did; said what needed to be said.--Alce What's today's Build? 03:40, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

When facing Searing Flames users, you don't flock together. Yeah, pretty basic, eh? You'll be surprised how many people can't follow such a simple tip. It has NEARBY range. If you stay close, it's your fault. As for the damage, there are plenty of other Elementalist spell combinations that can deliver much more damage to a single character in way less time. The only real advantage of Searing Flames is the nearby range, because the low recharge is compensated with the high energy cost. The average elementalist will have around 80..110 energy even under an attunement and using glyph of energy(making the effective enrgy somewhere around 120..150), they quickly will run out of energy with that cost. H/H are stupid and will try to stay close to you even when you flag them a bit away, so it's normal that fire Djinns can take entire H/H parties in PvE, but in PvP you just spread. and the damage is dealt to a single target, and it's way easier to take care of. If you are so preoccupied about it, just ask for Extinguish to have a shorter recharge if it removes burning from 2 or more allies. MithTalk 20:04, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

SF's big problem isn't that it hits multiple people, it's that it hits at all. When there is only one searing flooms ele on the enemy team, the damage isn't that bad -- it isn't balanced either, mind you, but with shields and common sense it can be weathered. But you never fight one SF ele. You fight five or six, who all time their SF casts so that they deal several hundred points of damage to their target. Even if they only hit one, that person still takes enough damage to die if their monk is bad, and needs Spirit Bond if their monk is good. Then, they can do it again two seconds later. That means they can literally have another person dead or in need of SB before you can res the first person that died. The monk simply can't keep casting spirit bonds on recharge and hope to last long at all.

Moreover, in Heroe's Ascent, where this build is more popular because in GvG at least you can split up so their spike is smaller, you aren't usually able to just "spread out." The HoH, where the majority of competitive play in HA takes place since almost nobody plays there anymore, is designed with three objectives: the first, relic run, is almost completely non-combat. You run your relic and let other people do the same. If you want, you can be a dick and try to knock somebody down if they aren't stabbed, but largely it's a format created so that 100% combat builds can't take and hold halls. It's an anti-gimmick measure, but a very poor (not to mention very boring) one. The second two, the "real" objectives in HoH, are King of the Hill and Capture Points. In KotH, the goal is pretty simple: keep your ghostly alive while killing the others, so that he can take the altar for your team. While you have the altar, it serves as a resurrection shrine, and obviously the ghostly needs to be on the altar before he can claim it, so combat tends to concentrate on that focal point. If you aren't near the altar, chances are you're not close enough to be scoring the points you need to win, which means that an SF team can very easily blow your shit up.

Capture points are just as bad, if not worse -- if you're not in the area of the shrine you're trying to capture, you aren't actually contributing to it, which means you aren't helping your team. So, again, searing flooms spike can blow you up. Personally, I don't like capture points or relic runs, I preferred the old-fashioned King of the Hill games we had back in Tombs, where whoever was holding the shrine at the end of the match won. It seemed more fun to me, but that could be a bit of a bias, since the game was actually balanced and fun back then. —Jette 20:31, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

To shorten what Jette said, super damage + no recharge = ultimate bar compression. Searing Flames isn't broken because of the AoE, it's broken because it lets you bring 7 other skills and not have DPS downtime. ~Shard 01:13, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Basically. I can't make my points in a concise manner.  :( —Jette 01:33, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

You can have dps, because of lack of energy which can easily happen if not Managed well as so much uses a good deal energy (especially even if energy is not gained well). ♥ Ariyen ♀ 17:01, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Think about this stuff first

Suggestion 1 makes it bad.

Suggestion 2 makes it useless.

Suggestion 3 makes it worthless.

Suggestion 4 makes it identical to how it works right now.

Suggestion 5 also makes it identical to what it does now. ~Shard 03:52, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I look for inspiration in the title: searing flames. Alright, that's oxymoronic (I love that word because it has "moron" inside of it, which is what you call someone when they're unnecessarily redundant ← see what I did there?). Maybe it could be Seeping Wound for fire magic, except hexes are stupid, seeping wound is bad, and if it wasn't bad, it would just more lol domoges. Fire magic is a hard line to balance because if you put anything other than straight domoges in it, it becomes too useful while dealing damage. This is why fire magic is magnificently gay. —Jette 04:40, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Magnificently gay? So fire magic is...flaming? And I don't see how "Searing Flames" is an oxymoron since the two terms don't contradict each other. Rypofalem 21:44, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Fire magic does fine. You guys just need to find balance to defeat against it and that's Not that hard. I've Done this as a Necro and an Elemental in Pvp against ones who's used Searing flames, etc. Still defeated them. It's not the Searing Flames that's the problem I see here, nor is it broken. It's just finding the right skills to use against the fire magic. Not that hard, really. Ariyen 19:09, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

You're making an argument for Build Wars, then. k. —Jette 20:44, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Not really. I just stated truth. If I was making an argument, I'd said much much more. So, if you have a problem, then make your suggestions and make sure it'd go for the good of the game it's self, not a particular profession, being the way 'you' want it to be. That's it. Seriously, things can get redundant and childish if you nitpick every single thing, just because it doesn't go 'your way'. As is, it's hard trying to make Every single thing work perfectly with even Guild Wars 2 in the works. Nice to make suggestions, but I think it should be made sure of how it could work, what it'd do, what's the effects, etc. So build wars no, skill wars? Maybe, I just prefer fairness.

After all, I don't think they're looking to change a whole lot, to have to change even more stuff to fit to it, etc. Just things they can definitely see would work and could Actually implement. Ariyen 08:28, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Ariyen has the worst comments. If you want a fair game, shouldn't the skills be fair(ish)? Shouldn't a fair game based on skill allow the players with more skill to win more often than those who do not? What you're saying is to leave your precious over-powered Searing Flames alone (I see you're a fire Elementalist at heart: what a surprise!) and let players mash a button on a keyboard to kill things? You're promoting abuse of the system if you do that, since that tips the scales away from skill reliance and pushes them even further to build dependence. SF is an ultimate bar compressor that lets an ele like yourself take a shit-ton of other damaging spells while allowing you to maintain a permaburn (oh, and lots of damage pressure, too) on whatever you target with its next-to-nothing recharge. You obviously don't know what balance is, Ariyen. Like, at all. We're not nit-picking (which you, as a mother, would call it), we're balancing a game to make it fair. I still like Shard's idea best, personally.--Alce What's today's Build? 14:06, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

True heart rit fan strike. I don't like Searing Flames, To be honest, but most other fire elementals uses it. I DO know what counteracts it as I DO have a Necro, Monk, etc. For one of my characters, she's PVE and mostly delves in fire, but I do experiment with the water, air, earth, etc. as Earth is second best for her. I haven't created my other characters yet, but when I do I am going to add more 'tags'. I am a true character fan at heart really. I like most of the professions, but now you're just jabbing at air. Shesh the enemy griffion killed me like squat in pve, more so the rit spirits. SO I know it can counteract in pve as well as having a couple of them kill me when I had searing using there too. It's not over powered, you have great skills already, just don't know how to use them apparently, to be jabbing around. For my rit, I max out in the Attributes what would work best for her and she does well. So I have used searing, but I don't hardly use it, because it doesn't help me, even with fire and energy maxed. Try jabbing at the monks who can easily heal when trying to kill them. Also, use runes? Can buy them in balthazar, just wish that if you had the skills pack unlocked that all of them would be unlocked for PvP. Anyway, that's the truth (and if you look at page you can see I still do Edit.). I stand behind what I feel would work and I feel one of you not you two, but the third one that's got rit info up here is actually hitting the nail on the head as to what could work, etc. and I feel would benefit and help.

Not to mention, it's rather rude to say someone has the worst comments, when I don't really see you doing better here. you're not really telling what would BENEFIT . like okay how would this skill effect the enemy, what should the recharge timing be to make it not too over powering (As I've seen a few of your suggestions be) Or too weak, (Can still happen), what should the energy be and would it be too much on my energy bar. Would it 'sync' with other skills in this profession (As for you the ritualist). What would it benefit? And far as this? (what i'm getting at here) I would like to see not just benefits for PvP but Pve too. Cause you may need different recharge times, energy, etc. for your skill and the effects it'd do. ♥ Ariyen ♀ 16:57, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Ariyen I want a elite spell that says "Target enemy dies"... beacuse its balanced because signet of humility counters it Talamare 15:26, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Quite sure we all do, but can't honestly have what we all want. Not unless (And this I've said before on the feedback) that it can be detailed as to how it'd work what it'd effect, etc. The best for Guild wars in it's self and if it would Really benefit the game. Not self needs. ♥ Ariyen ♀ 16:57, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Ariyen, Talamare's comment was sarcastic. He's saying that what you're supporting is like this "kill stuff" skill. You don't know how to balance, let alone read. I did give a suggestion when I linked to Shard's ideas on SF, which you would have seen had you actually read and comprehended what I'd written. Your comments do not answer any questions well, either. SF is not a good thing for GW because it creates an imbalance among the players. It's not overpowered in PvE because, well, it's PvE. Once you actually see how awful SF can be in PvP, you'll understand why what you're saying is irrelevant and misplaced. I'm finished with this "discussion", since you're just spouting garbage at this point.--Alce What's today's Build? 18:59, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

W/e. I've played it in PvP , Played against it. I know what I'm talking about. You can use Mesmer Skills or other skills to mess up an ele and knock em down when they use this stuff. You and others apparently don't know how to play against an ele when they use fire or even searing flames to know the defenses, etc. I think you're the one misreading. Not to mention, feedbacks are suppose to be Serious, not pathetic Sarcasms. Also, happy to end this discussion with you, because you still never will understand an elemental until you play one or find defenses against one by CREATING other GOOD PvP players of which I DOUBT you have. ♥ Ariyen ♀ 19:41, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

What mesmer interrupt has a 2 second recharge and can hit 6 people? Please try again with another argument.

Oh, and citing "you're not a good player, so your viewpoint is bad" isn't very convincing coming from someone who thinks fire elementalists require brain power to play. ~Shard 20:44, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Comical. Pvp - Monks to heal people. Sounds like revenge, to be honest. Just get a mesmer and or tanker to destroy the elemental. No need to complain. I don't think fire elementals require brain power. I think people who don't think or know how to use their skills and even attribute points need brain power. Not have every single thing be easy and done for you. Pathetic. ♥ Ariyen ♀ 20:58, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Shard, Dont you know, if the enemy is using 6 SF eles, then you should obviously use 6 mesmers using cry of frustration............ Ariyen, btw what type of pvp do you do? Talamare 22:43, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

^ Ariyen belongs to the group of PvPers who call themselves RA/AB pros, I am pretty sure. Pika Fan 22:47, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Tell me Ariyen, have you EVER done HA or GvG? Based on the low level of pvp knowledge in your last post (bring a tanker? rofl), I'm going to assume you haven't. No monk can heal 500 health every 2 seconds and keep up on energy, and it's foolish of you to list that as a viable counter to SF. It's also foolish of you to list interrupt mesmers as a counter to a skill that has no recharge. I ask you again, enlighten us all on how to beat a Searing Flames group using as much effort as it takes to run one. ~Shard 23:07, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Be quiet shard. A mesmer and or tanker WILL DESTROY THE ELEMENTAL!!!!!11!!1!11!!YR3473Pika Fan 23:37, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Paragons. is for Raine, etc. 15:10, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Someone then should propose a 'fix' for pvp, to only Allow one class per profession for gvg or HA, won't that be useful or helpful? I've seen gvg games, much less not gonna say if I've participated or not in the past. I will say that, it's team work it's self to know how to defeat against other teams. Not by asking in feedback. Ask in guru or else where if you don't know. As many teams as I have seen, when busy eating, The ones that won, did defeat the searing flames, and others on the other teams, vice versa. It can be done. So as much effort as you did to asking me to tell how, why didn't you take the time to 'research'? I'm not one to help a lazy. I'm off to bed, I have a real life. ♥ Ariyen ♀ 06:48, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Awww

I'm not needed here - you guys managed to drive him off alone. GZ! -- NUKLEAR IIV 15:01, 9 October 2009 (UTC)