Talk:Cleave
I like this skill. `Raptaz 13:50, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
I do too. Reiauna 08:05, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
This is a very good, but very overlooked elite. It has a good amount of damage with a good adrenaline cost. Very spammable. I think people just tend to overlook it because it is easily capped, unlike other axe elites which are harder to find. FleshAndFaith
nah they tend to overlook it because dragonslash can be spammed constantly using 4GreatJustice. since dragonslash feeds adernaline to all the skills on a bar, its alot better than this once u get the adrenaline required to spam. cleave could do with a very slight buff imho, but thats jut me. 86.163.249.54 08:40, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Personally I think this is overlooked because some Elites can easily be combined with other skills. For instance, Eviscerate and Executioner's Strike take the same amount of adrenaline to be used, and that's a total of 60-70 extra damage (with 12-14 Axe Mastery). That's a mighty lot if you ask me. There's hardly any other axe skill that can mix with Cleave like that, so maybe some people got smart and put both Executioner's Strike and Eviscerate in their builds. Remember, adrenaline stacks. Bisurge 19:35, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
I think its overlooked bc its an elite power attack |Nalana
Darkling| 20:55, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
- Imo now that WE has been nerfed it's more the recently-buffed Whirling Axe that this loses out to, since for +10 damage at most you can get unblockability (which in turn means you won't be wasting your adrenaline by spamming this if it gets blocked) and remove a stance (which is great in TA and GvG). Also, to get a Deep Wound with this you need Dismember, and since that does no extra damage, the Cleave/Dismember combo is much inferior to Eviscerate (which is live Cleave + Dismember in one skill) with another attack skill (e.g. Executioner's Strike). The main advantage of this is that you need only 5 adrenaline, not 8, so oyu can spike almost twice as often, but that's not so good if your spike never skills due to lack of overall damage. I can see this being used in pressure builds, where you may simply want to do many packets of damage, possibly to different foes, but tbh it still needs a bit of a buff, what with Power Creep and all. 81.109.179.84 15:15, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
- It's never used because it's worse than Penetrating Blow, for heaven's sake. Go look at the maths on the damage calculation page if you don't believe me. This is one of the worst Warrior elites there is along with Primal Rage and Dwarven Battle Stance. Astralphoenix777 04:58, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
- It's not as bad as penetrating blow if you have a decent Strength score. It is pretty bad though. The fact is, no pure damage elite is ever going to be used on warriors because pure damage is not what warriors do, it's what Dervishes do. Warriors do lots and lots of damage, but also do things like this, this, and this, all of which are more dangerous than simple de-redbarring. Eviscerate isn't better than Cleave because of its damage, it's better because not only does it have awesome damage, it does 2 things in one and reduces spike time. Bar compression is good for reasons I don't need to explain, spike time being low is good for reasons that I shouldn't need to explain if you have any knowledge of the game whatsoever. Deep Wound means if your target has a max health of at least 500 (and unless they're Death Penaltied out the ying yang, they will), it's an instant unprottable (unless you're a plant, for some reason) 100 damage, that also significantly reduces healing. This stacks on top of the +33 damage it does, and the average of 40-60 or so damage it'll do depending on the target's armor, meaning in one hit you can knock out almost 200 health. Back when Guild Wars was about skill, that was unbeatable. Then you'd follow it up with the aptly named Executioner's Strike for another 100 damage, which should be about half your target's health -- assuming your time is helping you like they're supposed to be, the target should be more than dead by now. Warriors aren't just about pressure, they're about threat and disruption and cutting somebody's health bar in half in a little over a second. Cleave has zero spike potential because it does less damage than Eviscerate, does not apply its own deep wound (meaning you need to take an extra skill, one that does zero bonus damage, in order to get something that is required to kill targets), and overall reduces adrenaline gain because of the way adrenaline works. The fact is, even if cleave did +60 damage, it's unlikely people would take it, because Eviscerate still does +130. --Jette
05:40, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
- Glad to see someone who knows what they're talking about at last. Also, touche with regards to Penetrating Blow vs. Cleave; I wasn't taking into account Strength-based armour penetration. Astralphoenix777 17:39, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
- It's not as bad as penetrating blow if you have a decent Strength score. It is pretty bad though. The fact is, no pure damage elite is ever going to be used on warriors because pure damage is not what warriors do, it's what Dervishes do. Warriors do lots and lots of damage, but also do things like this, this, and this, all of which are more dangerous than simple de-redbarring. Eviscerate isn't better than Cleave because of its damage, it's better because not only does it have awesome damage, it does 2 things in one and reduces spike time. Bar compression is good for reasons I don't need to explain, spike time being low is good for reasons that I shouldn't need to explain if you have any knowledge of the game whatsoever. Deep Wound means if your target has a max health of at least 500 (and unless they're Death Penaltied out the ying yang, they will), it's an instant unprottable (unless you're a plant, for some reason) 100 damage, that also significantly reduces healing. This stacks on top of the +33 damage it does, and the average of 40-60 or so damage it'll do depending on the target's armor, meaning in one hit you can knock out almost 200 health. Back when Guild Wars was about skill, that was unbeatable. Then you'd follow it up with the aptly named Executioner's Strike for another 100 damage, which should be about half your target's health -- assuming your time is helping you like they're supposed to be, the target should be more than dead by now. Warriors aren't just about pressure, they're about threat and disruption and cutting somebody's health bar in half in a little over a second. Cleave has zero spike potential because it does less damage than Eviscerate, does not apply its own deep wound (meaning you need to take an extra skill, one that does zero bonus damage, in order to get something that is required to kill targets), and overall reduces adrenaline gain because of the way adrenaline works. The fact is, even if cleave did +60 damage, it's unlikely people would take it, because Eviscerate still does +130. --Jette
- It's never used because it's worse than Penetrating Blow, for heaven's sake. Go look at the maths on the damage calculation page if you don't believe me. This is one of the worst Warrior elites there is along with Primal Rage and Dwarven Battle Stance. Astralphoenix777 04:58, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
- Imo now that WE has been nerfed it's more the recently-buffed Whirling Axe that this loses out to, since for +10 damage at most you can get unblockability (which in turn means you won't be wasting your adrenaline by spamming this if it gets blocked) and remove a stance (which is great in TA and GvG). Also, to get a Deep Wound with this you need Dismember, and since that does no extra damage, the Cleave/Dismember combo is much inferior to Eviscerate (which is live Cleave + Dismember in one skill) with another attack skill (e.g. Executioner's Strike). The main advantage of this is that you need only 5 adrenaline, not 8, so oyu can spike almost twice as often, but that's not so good if your spike never skills due to lack of overall damage. I can see this being used in pressure builds, where you may simply want to do many packets of damage, possibly to different foes, but tbh it still needs a bit of a buff, what with Power Creep and all. 81.109.179.84 15:15, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Cracked Armor[edit]
this should cause it 66.231.144.19 02:15, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
- No. InfestedHydralisk 02:48, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
- Yes.66.231.144.19 02:51, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
- No. That Dude On The Television 18:58, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
- Yes.66.231.144.19 02:51, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
(indent reset) It's useless in pvp, add cracked armor and maybe like 5 adrenaline and bam it has a use again, or at least something close to usefulness 66.231.144.19 02:34, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, there are more viable elites for a Warrior. But Cracked Armor is not something a Warrior should cause. InfestedHydralisk 02:37, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
- technically warriors are the only ones who SHOULD cause cracked armor, and maybe ele's and necros66.231.147.16 03:49, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
- Body Blow would suddenly become a lot more meaningful for Warrior bars. Compression, no? 141.165.170.132 08:26, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
- Considering that it's already on every axe warrior bar, no. — Raine Valen
23:50, 30 Sep 2010 (UTC)
- Considering that it's already on every axe warrior bar, no. — Raine Valen
- Body Blow would suddenly become a lot more meaningful for Warrior bars. Compression, no? 141.165.170.132 08:26, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
- technically warriors are the only ones who SHOULD cause cracked armor, and maybe ele's and necros66.231.147.16 03:49, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
Underpowered[edit]
Anyone else now find this skill underpowered, especially in comparison to the new Forceful Blow? I mean seriously, Forceful Blow not only does more damage, but it also costs the same adrenaline, is unblockable, causes weakness, and removes a stance. I think the comparison between Executioner's Strike and Mighty Blow is reasonable, as is the comparison between Cyclone Axe and Crude Swing. But honestly, right now Cleave is very underpowered. Bisurge 19:52, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
- Cleave is about DPS. It's on Axe mastery, which means it has more base attack speed than hammers and allows you to use a shield, which boosts your defenses too (or a focus if you're doing something weird and probably wrong). I think it possibly could use a bit more damage but not much really. At 4 adrenal, it's not hard at all to spam it for very good damage. - VileLasagna 18:20, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
- Cleave is bad. There are much better options for DPS, including non-elites. -~=Ϛρѧякγ
(τѧιк) 18:22, 14 March 2010 (UTC) - Cleave used to be a good option for DPS, but now more skills are outshining it. InfestedHydralisk 19:08, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
- Eviscerate - Mini Me talk 19:16, 14 March 2010
- practically everything outshines it... counterattack outshines it ffs and it's not elite. you may say this is adren so that makes it better but spammy adren skills don't work so well - maybe if this gave you +1 (or more) adren it would then be pretty nice. Roflmaomgz 07:59, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
- Give it an activation speed tbh. Something along the lines of prot strike. that way it will have some minor function as a spikedamage compression followup. Might or might not merit an extra effect along the lines of agonizing. (e.g. if target is suffering from a deep wound, that target is interrupted.) It would see play, but remain relatively balanced. Kay Ðee 09:08, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
- Then it would push magehunter's strike and/or agonizing chop out of play. — Raine Valen 23:51, 30 Sep 2010 (UTC)
- Then it would push magehunter's strike and/or agonizing chop out of play. — Raine Valen
- Give it an activation speed tbh. Something along the lines of prot strike. that way it will have some minor function as a spikedamage compression followup. Might or might not merit an extra effect along the lines of agonizing. (e.g. if target is suffering from a deep wound, that target is interrupted.) It would see play, but remain relatively balanced. Kay Ðee 09:08, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
- practically everything outshines it... counterattack outshines it ffs and it's not elite. you may say this is adren so that makes it better but spammy adren skills don't work so well - maybe if this gave you +1 (or more) adren it would then be pretty nice. Roflmaomgz 07:59, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
- Cleave is bad. There are much better options for DPS, including non-elites. -~=Ϛρѧякγ
