Talk:Hard mode

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Differences Discrepancy

I'm not sure if I'm misreading the statement in point 3 of the differences section ("Are more likely to avoid focusing their attacks on one target") but I find this is either not clear, or simply not accurate.

When I'm in hard mode, invariably the AI will systematically and consistently spike members of my team until successfully killing them. Prior to the update allowing seven heroes, all henchies were simply fodder in all hard mode instances. Since that update, I have found that the AI is VERY predictable. In my typical eight member HH team, it will kill (in order) my MM and my life-steal/mana battery, then my ritualist (resto/channeling), then either my mesmer (disruption), or fire elementalist, generally in the order in which the opponents are taking the most damage from. If the AI is unable to kill the intended target, it will default to my monk (protection) repeatedly until there is a sufficient DP to restrict mana to where the monk can no longer effectively sustain the originally intended target. Only after all of the team has a DP of at least 10% will it then go after my tank. The AI will target me at some point in this hate/threat order as well, varying accordingly to my class and role, as well as the damage (or healing) that I am doing.

At any rate, the statement for point 3, based upon my observations reads (to me) as the opposite of what I find to be correct...the AI is decidedly MUCH more likely to focus fire with all of the units in a mob upon a single target. Gwynna Vive 17:26, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

I believe there was a specific update that added this behavior, but I'm not having any luck finding it, and I don't know of any way to search only update notes. I'm pretty sure this refers to melee creatures, and that they will try to avoid more than 3 attacking the same target, which I believe is pretty true and consistent. As for which target, the AI prefers low health, low armor targets, which is why just sending a warrior out in front doesn't help a ton with aggro unless they are the only thing the AI can "see" for several seconds. Perhaps your MMs have less health than your other heroes? Manifold 18:08, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

I have found it - and still do but to a lesser degree - that the initial attacks are on the first aggroed; following this, they switch to whoever has less armor/health combo (effectively prioritizing the weakest member). I think the person who added this originally noticed this switching - and perhaps saw more switching due to AoE or saccing lowering an (directly) unattacked party member, causing the AI to target that new "weakest link." But my observations may be flawed.

Manifold's explanation of melee also sounds accurate, and a possible source behind the line. Either way, rewording is required. Konig/talk 19:15, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes, when all is equal, the AI will pick targets based on armor, and HP, which is why I've shifted my builds considerably, making the MM one of my heroes with the most HP so that they can withstand a double spike and are not the immediate target by default (Konig's reported "target switching" is quite noticeable in my group as the MM is invariably the last to arrive in the fight), while I've lowered HP on other heroes to promote more hate toward them, and such. But the AI seems to override such concerns when they are taking the amount of damage I've tuned my usual group to put out.

I think, with my MM's level 21 minions swarming the targets while rising bile and putrid bile drop considerable damage of their own, it is invariably more damage than the AI will tolerate from any single source, and it seeks to destroy that capacity by killing the MM despite high HP and armor. With my Elementalist, I'm usually the the first or second on the list (my tandem fire build tends to wipe out multiple targets quickly) so I've sacrificed mana for extra HP and such in an attempt to counter this...but that is all another debate for builds and tactics.

If the statement on point 3 refers only to melee mobs, it should state so. If the information has changed since an update, the points in this section need to be updated as well, but like Manifold, I could not find a reference to such an update. I don't want to simply change it myself, because I am not certain whether it's poorly worded or outdated, and I would rather allow debate before editing any non-stub page that is so well written and organized. Gwynna Vive 19:29, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

In terms of damage, I don't think that minions count as being sourced from the MM.

For the statement, looking through history I found the source of our issue. Original version of the statement said "Melee foes avoid focusing their attacks on one target." But TEF altered it so that the points read as continuations of the last pre-list sentence, which made the line confusing. I'll alter it shortly to once more refer to melee enemies only. Konig/talk 20:25, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Eligibility details

Just to be clear, when you finish a campaign, that unlocks hard mode for only that campaign, right? Not all campaigns? 24.47.80.100 22:53, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, only that campaign --Falconeye 00:31, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

In the current version of the article, that fact isn't at all clear. It just says that to activate access to hard mode, you have to complete a campaign. Cynique (talk) 10:28, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Embark Beach

Hard Mode isn't unlocked in Embark Beach if Eye of the North is the only 'Campaign' you have HM unlocked for. It didn't unlock instantly after I unlocked HM in Factions either, perhaps a relog is needed? I'm going to do some more tests with completing Prophecies and NF first. 77.86.23.213 10:27, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

masterless minions

When minions with less than 60 AR turn hostile in Hard Mode, their AR is increased to 60. They do not attack or move any faster. Mist Y (talk) 23:48, 9 February 2020 (UTC)