Talk:Protect the Learned

Notes

I hope the walkthrough and strategy notes on this one are clear, I re-edited it a couple of times before saving...

I also deleted the note about camping the res shrine even if the party goes to 60dp. To my mind, it didn't explain enough to be a useful strategy for this quest. Frankly, if the party wipes with the Margonites at the shrine, then the L20+ Margonites have got 10 seconds to turn around and easily destroy the L10 scholars! Taking such an approach, I think you're more likely to fail than pass this quest. --BramStoker (talk, contribs) 22:35, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Does it matter which side you start on?

I found that starting on the north-east side made more Margonites come at a time than I could handle. Starting on the south-west side let me get them moving in much smaller groups. I only tried once though. Can anyone confirm or refute? --Wee Tommy 00:42, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't really matter imo. I've pulled all the western groups at once and managed to kill them off. The important note about the eastern groups, tho, is that it's better to wait a while (2-3 mins) before approaching them; they split a bit, making it possible to easier aggro 2-3 groups instead of all. Drk 17:11, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Don't Try at all to Talk to all the Scholars.

If you try to talk to all the scholars before going for the margos, all of them will attack at ONCE. a.k.a. Ultimite mob death. 70.121.168.43 20:17, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

afaik the Margonites don't spawn at all before you talk to all the scholars. Drk 17:12, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

The veeery easy way.

TL;DR - just a very easy way to deal with the quest if you still have problems, despite all the clues and walkthroughs found here.

I thought that this quest is nearly impossible after first few tries. I'm playing a mesmer myself, based mainly on domination magic, and i haven't found anything suitable for the siege at first. But there's an easy way to kill all the groups. After talking with all eight scholars (yes, the 'finish talking with the ones closest to the shrine' clue is useful!), take the useful blessings (mana and morale for sure, the rest depends on your char) and head west. It doesn't really matter if you push forward and aggro all the groups at once or you manage to aggro two at a time. Once the Margonites are triggered and begin to move towards you, quickly move back to the library-like chamber (weird signs on 'scrolls' from the ceiling, brown walls and floor). Pass the stairs and flag your h/h right behind the corner -inside- the chamber. This way all the enemy mages and archers will shoot in the wall, while the reapers and executioners will gather in one huge cluster. Now it's up to you and your build - either kill off the reapers and executioners first (recommended) or use some non-projectile skills to kill the archers and mages behind the wall (since lower armor, it's faster). Re-flag your h/h if you see that they move too far towards the Margonites. Once all Margonites on that side are dead (check with L, there are 6 groups on each side), do the same on the east.

My heroes were - Olias and Master of Whispers as MM (not bombers), and Tahlkora as protection monk with build similar to Lina's from Tyria; henches - Mhenlo, Cynn, Herta and Sogolon. My own build - Me/R - Lightbringer's Signet (mana), Clumsiness (AoE damage and interrupt on all melee/archer enemies), Arcane Conundrum (makes clerics less dangerous; not necessarily needed tho, but...), Chaos Storm (just cast on the mages behind the wall and forget), Energy Surge (AoE damager), Cry of Pain (another AoE damager, fueled mostly by conundrum), Lightbringer's Gaze and Serpent's Quickness (non-elite, easily maintainable and more global counterpart for mantra of recovery - what to want more?).

If anyone still finds problems with this quest, i can send screens and/or exact builds i've used. I hope it helps. Drk 17:05, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

The very, VERY easy way

Here's another idea on this mission. The triggers only react to a player moving through the terrain. Additionally, once you trigger a couple of Margonites, they move to a "staging area" until you trigger enough of them and they start to rush you. The "staging area" is visible on your Compass. Just move your character forward until you trigger a couple of margonites and they move to the staging area. Then flag your henchies and heros to the same spot while keeping your character stationary. If you're careful, your heros and henchies will outnumber the Margonites and you'll easily win.

This was the strategy I used with my Monk. Additionally, I took Light of Deliverance and Heal Party which allowed me to provide a little support, even though I wasn't anywhere near the fight (both spells will work from any distance as long as the party members are still visible in the Compass).

--Kengaras 18:53, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Part Two on the Very Easy!

Once all the scholars are at the back, follow the tip above to fetch the scholars furtherest away first. Return to the passage-way behind the middle room (there are two carpeted ramps that lead there from either side). The waves of margonites will come in three groups per wave and alternate West-East-West-East. Simply set your group up first West then East and so on, there's plenty of time to move across the ramps between the waves. As to the build's, honestly you could hero/hench this. Use AoE skills like barrage, elementalist fire spells, necro bombers and simlar. Protection monks. Minion masters have lots of corpses to exploit. Cry of Frustration worked well and Edge of Extinction. miXer 12:23, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

I've done this quest with H/H on over a dozen characters, and I've never seen a margonite while following the marker to obtain all 8 scholars. The scholars just run to the rear as you touch them in marker order, and you can wait in the rear with them forever without a margonite appearing. There is no reason to rush, and no possibility of a huge invasion, so I don't understand the trouble that some are having. I just flag the H/H team at the top of one set of stairs, then the other set, alternating between them, and I move down the current side to trigger a group or two just by holding them in compass range. Then I switch sides and repeat. It never fails, and the margonites always die at the stairs and never get anywhere near the scholars. Morgaine 19:09, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Doable on Hard Mode with this. Magamdy 20:03, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Possible farming?

I talked to all of the scholars and exited the building; the first thing that came to mind was "Dear lord. My screen can't even hold all of the creature names.... Lol, How can I farm this??" So, I checked the talk page and was somewhat disappointed at the lack of a similar response. The quest "Battle of turai's procession" in which several mobs of margonites spawn, was very much so farmable with the correct build. Someone please try to get back to me on this, I will be working on a build for an elementalist.

I've been working on an elementalist build, I can tank them for quite awhile, but have no way to DPS them. If only I had Factions, then I'd have Sliver Armor. A Perma can probably farm 'em. Xlegna 06:33, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Cannot get Margonites to Trigger

Twice now, I have talked to all eight scholars, and no matter what--using the Ctrl-left to look for targets, walking around EVERYWHERE, I cannot get any Margonites to spawn. Just outside the library there is at least one of those gates for them to come through (maybe two, I have forgotten already). But no Margonites at all. Can someone tell me what I have done wrong?

I've had this happen to me also. Don't know why it happens, but if I make another complete circuit of the Halls it usually causes them to spawn. Xlegna 06:33, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

How I got it to work

I just went ahead and talked to each scholar in the order the compass told me to do so. After doing so, I started at the resurrection shrine nearest to Kachok and went around and intercepted the first two waves of Margonites on the north and east side. You should meet them by the staircase leading down into the open area. This will be the most difficult group you face, and if you get by them you should be free and clear because the rest of the waves should come one group at a time. For the second wave, go back around near the rez shrine and to the next open space just down the staircase to the west, and pick off that group. Following this, proceed to the "bridge" between the two oriental rug bridges (behind Kachok), and pick off the remaining waves one at a time. You may have to flag your guys back and "entice" the Margonites to "come out and play"... Jdoggivjc

redirect

redirect from protect the learned?

yes pls--92.106.72.25 01:24, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

How work the spawns?

I just did the mission using the corner's edge trick and my standard build and H/H, but I found the spawns somehow different as depicted here, I was very careful while trigering the margonites but somehow, the wave from the south was compossed by 6 groups, not by 2 waves of 3, then, from the north, it was 2 waves of 2 groups unad 2 waves of one group. It's random the number of groups in each wave? Lokheit

Epic Mob death

has anyone managed to trigger them all at once and survive and complete the quest? i've tried tanking with my warrior, but it's just too much dmg +degen to survive even with bonds etc. --83.78.56.65 19:33, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, I have done the quest some times but I still don't know how the spawns work.. so no, haven't tried it. But I suppose in Nm could be "easy" with a MM and a good AoE interrupting mesmer, and by using proper calling and taking advantage of PvE only skills to kill the most dangerous margonites first (sorcerers). Also, using a barrager or carrying Mark of pain to fuel the minions could provide enough amount of damage to dispose them quickly. Remember to have your Lightbringer title checked to improve your damage and gain a little protection boost. --Lhoj 19:42, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

i've tried tanking with a obsitank, but there's just WAY too much damage. even with 3 bonders and some partyheal skills i couldn't get enough defense, mainly because interrupts+knockdowns are present and i need big parts of my skillbar for that. --92.106.72.25 01:27, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I... have no idea what the problem here is xD I went through with my usual team, triggered all of the mobs at once, absolutely shredded the first half, then ran back to the start to catch the second half before they got to the scholars and destroyed them too. I don't think anyone on my team even went below half health. I'm a Hundred Blades/Never Rampage Alone W/R, didn't bring anything too special, just my usual three heroes and a handful of henchies, but this quest was an absolute joke. ...Of course, it probably helps that I've got all eight ranks of Lightbringer, but still. Leon Drakenhart 23:46, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Walkthough is rather misleading

Now I successfully completed this quest after failing three times by triggering an overwhelming number of mobs, unknowingly. I deem the walkthough unacceptable as it does not clearly explains the spawn and triggering method of the margonite groups.

"When this quest is active, there appear to be "hidden" triggers in the Halls of Chokhin which set off each wave of Margonite groups, however, these triggers only become active after the party has spoken to all 8 scholars. When the scholars are spoken to, they will run to the shrine of Lyssa at the north-west side of the halls. For this reason, it is best to start talking to the scholars furthest from the shrine, then work your way in to speak to the closest scholars last."

In this paragraph, the fact that the "triggering" part is only relevant *after* talking to all 8 scholars is not solidly stated. While I was getting rapedfail tries I actually found out that all margonite mobs spawn and come to hammer you at pretty much the same point, if you happens to be at the wrong location, such as camping at the entrance of the library when last scholar has been talked to (or has been relocated to interior). Also, I talked to the 8 scholars in cycle; I started from southwest, went around the library and finished talking to the last scholar at northeast location. Then I ran back immediately to the interior. Doing this did not mess up the trigge.

Also I feel strongly that the walkthrough should recommend player to bring a running skill, because talking to all scholars pretty much means a complete tour of the library.

"Once all the scholars have been spoken to and have congregated at the shrine, the party can start to trigger the Margonite groups. This is best done by carefully moving forward on one side while holding the Show Targets key (Left Ctrl by default) until you can see a Margonite group, and then moving enough to trigger make them head towards the scholars. At this point, hold your position to head them off, or retreat to a suitable ambush/blocking point."

This paragraph is too vague as it does not affirm the few points where player should and should not do. It should be clearly stated that the margonite incursions are predefined into two routes, and it is more than possible to be at the wrong place and trigger groups that is intended to follow the other route to the scholars. The walkthrough should suggest players to strategically hold of the narrow entrance/exit points of the two large chambers with domed rooftop. There should be a trigger of two groups by walking around in that chamber, and by fighting them at a chokepoint should provide the player with enough leverage to take the mobs out fairly.

I tried to play safe by triggering the first few waves at one side, rinse and repeat at the other side. I suppose the walkthrough is stating that it is possible to progressively trigger all the groups of one side, and then work on the other side. Although I fear that by taking the shortcut that is near the library's entrance, crossing to the other side, will cause all the margonite groups to swarm at the player at the same time. Although I did not have the chance to explore how exactly can one fail at that particular way, lol.

In conclusion, I feel that the walkthrough on the main page should be rewritten so it could make sense to people who is going to do the quest for the first time instead of it only makes sense to those who either completed it or keep failing at it. Here's the few points that should be stressed: -Two-stage nature of this quest: talk to all scholars first and then defend them -Camping at the rift portal outside of the library where margonite mobs will spawn is not a viable solution due to sheer number of them. -Triggering and fight all groups that goes to one side is not impossible but difficult, per feedback from other users on this talk page. -However, getting too close to the converging point near the library's entrance is possible to set off margonite groups to march to the scholars via the other route. -Generally, no one in the party should move to the side of the library where your party won't be able to intercept the margonite groups that comes from that route.

Anyhow I don't like quests that have hidden triggers like this one; the quest log should be more informative on defense strategies instead of requiring people to either get lucky, or learn to do it "correctly" by first inducing massive failures...

--Kgptzac 08:19, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Bottom line is it's a badly designed quest with hidden mechanics. Anet seems to think that it's okay to throw zerg spawns at players as long as there is a way to exploit the script triggers. They also seem to think that players can't tell the difference between challenging and cheap. 76.253.0.17 07:40, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Skill/tactics recommendations:

Psychic Instability, and Your Nukes Of Choice

Find a Margonite Reaper, Margonite Warlock, or Margonite Sorcerer in the middle of the ball of foes (they all have multiple 1 second activation skills that are relatively interrupt friendly), lock a Psychic Instability hero on them, and wait for the inevitable 4 second knockdown on skill use. I recommend spreading out your own team so you don't take too much AoE damage.

I managed to take down 3 groups at a time (in ~10-15 seconds for each wave) by camping the stairs, and using this tactic. It's not necessarily reliable, but it is hilarious how fast groups go down to the AoE.

Cheers. Cheez Whiz F T W 09:07, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

More notes on triggers

These are my observations:

• Triggers may either be hidden lines on the map or radius-based. In any case, the triggering mechanisms are very finely spaced apart.
• The mobs don't spawn at the rift when you are starting from the center of the palace. They seem to spawn just outside your compass radius, in the general direction of the rift. In general, you do not need to take into consideration the "travel time" of the mobs. However, I'm not sure if this is also true for the last group in each wing, since you're so close to the exit anyway.
• An entire group doesn't necessarily spawn with a single trigger. If a group appears but stops moving, the player needs to inch forward to spawn the rest of the group. Doing this may spawn part of the next group. And going just a bit too far will fully spawn the second or even a third group also, and I think that's how people end up aggroing multiple groups.
• Whenever a new spawn occurs, stop immediately and wait to see what it does. When one group is fully spawned, it will wait for a few seconds before resuming forward movement. Be patient during those seconds and don't try to "trigger" it again; if you do, you're likely to just trigger additional groups. If the group is fully spawned, you do NOT need to trigger it to move. If you're not sure if it's fully spawned, step forward very slowly.
• Spawns are either random or sensitive to triggering technique. You don't necessarily face all the enemies listed in the article. In my experience, it is possible to go through all the waves without facing any Clerics.
• Trigger locations (Northeast wing):
  • Middle of the stairs going down into the library. Spawns 1 group.
  • Middle of the stairs going down outside. Spawns 1 group.
  • On the pathway to the first stairs up. 2 groups can spawn from triggers in this area.
  • Up the stairs, across the carpet bridge, on the flat area leading to the exit. 2 groups can spawn from triggers in this area.
• Trigger locations (Southwest wing):
  • Middle of the stairs going down into the library. Spawns 1 group.
  • Middle of the stairs going down outside. Spawns 1 group.
  • On the pathway to the first stairs up. 4 groups can spawn from triggers in this area.

I've tried to be as accurate as possible, but I too don't have infinite patience so cannot say with 100% certainty that this is always how the triggers work. But I found this behavior to be consistent when running the quest. Hold Me Closer, Necromancer 04:13, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

!!** - This is the only post that helped me! None of them say that you MUST stay in the back of the library or they all trigger. You MUST release one of the Learned closest to the shrine LAST (either side), otherwise you will trigger the hoards of Margonites and you will likely be overwhelmed. Trigger one step at a time (see above trigger points) and wait for them to come to you. The last group did not seem to trigger on anything - I had to go outside and attack them at the shine in front of the library. 108.45.159.84 20:29, 2 January 2021 (UTC) The Tap Master, Ranger/Mo

Worst Ever

1. Quest - or at least the most badly designed 2. Reward to effort ratio - I really want to do this one 300 times to get the trade contract 3. Wiki Entry - "move forward with control held down - yep - nothing until all 12 groups are triggered

I dunno. I don't consider myself to be much more than an average player, and this turned out to be a pretty simple quest once I understood the gist of how it worked. Simply not running around like a nitwit (like pretty much every quest/mission NPC), spawning big mobs, made dealing with 4-8 Marg groups a breeze. One MM and one spirit spammer were enough to keep them tied up so my backline (including me) could just MoP, nuke, SS, etc. with impunity. I think it took me all of 12 minutes, IIRC, to finish it off. This is hardly the "worst ever"--there are several other quests that are actually a real PitA by comparison. Kruhljak (talk) 13:21, 25 March 2012 (UTC)